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Old 06-08-2007, 01:31 PM    (permalink
Shiver
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Originally Posted by Neo View Post
You should be banned for this...
Well he won't be.

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you are just being a little bit silly i am pretty sure i have demonstrated a superiour football knowledge.
The fact that you misspelled superior is hilarious, as well as a microcosm for your entire reasoning ability.

Quote:
I am sorry you have a man crush on elway but regardless of a superbowl or not Manning is better.
Resorting to homosexual innuendo, fantastic..

Quote:
TEAMS win superbowls... not individual players. Drew Bledsoe won a superbowl does anybody care? No.
Drew Bledsoe didn't win the Super Bowl.

Quote:
I understand Elway played back in the day, but that does not excuse him for being awful at throwing the football.
It is evident that you don't "understand."

Quote:
I am aware Peyton won the superbowl but that is meaningless on his resume of greatness.
Quote:
Watch the man play he is ridiculuos, unlike that sloppy McNabb wannabe Elway.
I don't know what "ridiculuos" is, but it is obvious that your knowledge of football consists of the 21st century, with stats as your only way of measuring players that played in an era that was not passing friendly.

Quote:
(McNabb is superior at just about every level through 8 years FACT)
John Elway is in the hall of fame. The only time McNabb visits Canton, it will be as a visitor.

Quote:
Get over your man Crush Peyton is the greatest to ever Play. Opps i forgot Kevin Faulk is a better RB than Barry Sanders right? PUH-LEEEZE
This argument makes my brain hurt.

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Being on a good team doesnt make you a good player
See above.
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:31 PM    (permalink
Neo
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Originally Posted by SubNoize View Post
Wow, you are a misinformed, confused individual. I have never seen such disgusting fangirl garbage spewed in my entire life. You do realize that the modern era of football is so pansy when it comes to contact that it pretty much allows for passing stats to be grossly inflated for "entertainment." Marino, Elway and Montana played in a time where the defender could maul a receiver and it was just part of the game, and inspite that were still able to put up solid stats and win big games. When Manning can lead his team in the clutch as well as Elway or Montana you call me, because frankly he's still a choker in big situations. Manning has been consitently bad when the games have mattered, you know the ones in Jan. One Super Bowl victory that was lead mostly by defense and a solid run game isn't going to dispell critics'. Addai better than Barry??? Are you joking? Please tell me you are beacuse if you're not that you should never be able to speak about football ever again...
Didnt Elway lose his first 3 superbowls... Sounds like choking to me. Also superbowls dont have anything to do with being a Good QB... not in the least. Mario was able to put up good #'s back when "WR's" were getting mauled so that Argument doesnt hold an ounce of water.

Didnt Addai win a superbowl, with your logic he is a better RB than Barry is he not. Of course i know barry is just about the greatest to ever carry the rock, but with your logic Addai is better RIGHT? be consistant
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Neo View Post
You should be banned for this... you are just being a little bit silly i am pretty sure i have demonstrated a superiour football knowledge. I am sorry you have a man crush on elway but regardless of a superbowl or not Manning is better. TEAMS win superbowls... not individual players. Drew Bledsoe won a superbowl does anybody care? No. I understand Elway played back in the day, but that does not excuse him for being awful at throwing the football. I am aware Peyton won the superbowl but that is meaningless on his resume of greatness. Watch the man play he is ridiculuos, unlike that sloppy McNabb wannabe Elway. (McNabb is superior at just about every level through 8 years FACT) Get over your man Crush Peyton is the greatest to ever Play. Opps i forgot Kevin Faulk is a better RB than Barry Sanders right? PUH-LEEEZE

Being on a good team doesnt make you a good player
I think theres a reason you have negative rep.
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Neo View Post
You should be banned for this... you are just being a little bit silly i am pretty sure i have demonstrated a superiour football knowledge. I am sorry you have a man crush on elway but regardless of a superbowl or not Manning is better. TEAMS win superbowls... not individual players. Drew Bledsoe won a superbowl does anybody care? No. I understand Elway played back in the day, but that does not excuse him for being awful at throwing the football. I am aware Peyton won the superbowl but that is meaningless on his resume of greatness. Watch the man play he is ridiculuos, unlike that sloppy McNabb wannabe Elway. (McNabb is superior at just about every level through 8 years FACT) Get over your man Crush Peyton is the greatest to ever Play. Opps i forgot Kevin Faulk is a better RB than Barry Sanders right? PUH-LEEEZE

Being on a good team doesnt make you a good player
The argument of Kevin Faulk being a better RB then Barry Sanders is ridiculous way to prove a point that doesn't work. First of all, people who aruge taht Super Bowls are the only way to judge players, use QBs as their examples. Secondly, Faulk wasn't even a starter, making your argument even further from being conceived as realistic.

Claiming that Donovan McNabb is on pace to be better then Elway as fact is ridiculous and shows you have no respect for anyone playing in another era. Elway, Marino, these guys are miles ahead of Peyton Manning, and no stat will convince people otherwise. Your stats argument is just as absurd as saying Jon Kitna threw for more yards then Tom Brady, he is a better QB. So far you've provided nothing but stats, and if we are just using stats that claim is valid....but its not, because there is more to QBs then just their stats.

I doubt anyone else shares the same view as Peyton being miles ahead of Elway, and being the greatest QB of all time. Stop being blinded by the present, and open your eyes to the fact that the game was different years ago.

You claim Manning is the one that makes the offense great, but then say its teams that win Super Bowls. Manning's team won the Super Bowl, but he is the only reason they are great according to you. He has a cast of first rounders and pro-bowlers receiving and blocking for him, you cannot actually think that he is already the greatest of all time at QB.
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
Well he won't be.



The fact that you misspelled superior is hilarious, as well as a microcosm for your entire reasoning ability.



Resorting to homosexual innuendo, fantastic..



Drew Bledsoe didn't win the Super Bowl.



It is evident that you don't "understand."





I don't know what "ridiculuos" is, but it is obvious that your knowledge of football consists of the 21st century, with stats as your only way of measuring players that played in an era that was not passing friendly.



John Elway is in the hall of fame. The only time McNabb visits Canton, it will be as a visitor.



This argument makes my brain hurt.



See above.
I see you play favorites, and i wasnt talking about anything sexual about it unless you seem to get off thinking about that. I was saying "man crush" a heterosexual man crush.
Bledsoe did win a superbowl, check his ring finger.
Mario Did just fine didnt he, stop covering for Elways suckiness. Elway shouldnt have been throwing to the other team so damn often.
McNabb's first 8 years are better than elways on just about every level are they not?
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Neo View Post
You should be banned for this... you are just being a little bit silly i am pretty sure i have demonstrated a superiour football knowledge. I am sorry you have a man crush on elway but regardless of a superbowl or not Manning is better. TEAMS win superbowls... not individual players. Drew Bledsoe won a superbowl does anybody care? No. I understand Elway played back in the day, but that does not excuse him for being awful at throwing the football. I am aware Peyton won the superbowl but that is meaningless on his resume of greatness. Watch the man play he is ridiculuos, unlike that sloppy McNabb wannabe Elway. (McNabb is superior at just about every level through 8 years FACT) Get over your man Crush Peyton is the greatest to ever Play. Opps i forgot Kevin Faulk is a better RB than Barry Sanders right? PUH-LEEEZE

Being on a good team doesnt make you a good player
1. You should be banned for having little knowledge of the sport and being a possible troll.

2. Superior football knowledge? Sorry, but the only knowledge you have is stats. You have no concept of era and actual talent.

3. I don't have a man crush on Elway. I think Manning is one of the top twenty quarterbacks of all-time at this point but for you to say he is EASILY the GREATEST is just insane.

4. Yes, I am aware teams win Super Bowls. I'll be the first to tell you that the rings arguement is stupid. The thing I'm pissed about is for lack of respect for intelligent members of this forum.

5. Drew Bledsoe won a Super Bowl as a back-up quarterback.

6. Awful at throwing the football? I'm sorry but I'm done. I'm done reading your posts. Get out.
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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The argument of Kevin Faulk being a better RB then Barry Sanders is ridiculous way to prove a point that doesn't work. First of all, people who aruge taht Super Bowls are the only way to judge players, use QBs as their examples. Secondly, Faulk wasn't even a starter, making your argument even further from being conceived as realistic.

Claiming that Donovan McNabb is on pace to be better then Elway as fact is ridiculous and shows you have no respect for anyone playing in another era. Elway, Marino, these guys are miles ahead of Peyton Manning, and no stat will convince people otherwise. Your stats argument is just as absurd as saying Jon Kitna threw for more yards then Tom Brady, he is a better QB. So far you've provided nothing but stats, and if we are just using stats that claim is valid....but its not, because there is more to QBs then just their stats.

I doubt anyone else shares the same view as Peyton being miles ahead of Elway, and being the greatest QB of all time. Stop being blinded by the present, and open your eyes to the fact that the game was different years ago.

You claim Manning is the one that makes the offense great, but then say its teams that win Super Bowls. Manning's team won the Super Bowl, but he is the only reason they are great according to you. He has a cast of first rounders and pro-bowlers receiving and blocking for him, you cannot actually think that he is already the greatest of all time at QB.

Mario put up great #'s stop covering for the fact Elway threw to the other team often.

Also McNabb's first 8 years are better than Elways, explain to me how they are not
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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You do realize that football wasn't invented in 1998, right?
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Neo View Post
Mario put up great #'s stop covering for the fact Elway threw to the other team often.

Also McNabb's first 8 years are better than Elways, explain to me how they are not
Who the hell is Mario? Marino? Unless I'm being completely stupid right now I can't understand what argument your making here.

No, McNabb's first eight years are not better then Elway's, and even if they were, a QB is not better then someone else because of their first eight years alone, Elway had a HOF career, won Super Bowls, won games, and is most known for his amazing comebacks. You'll just say QB's don't win games, teams do, and make some ridiculous points about how with that logic Addai is better then Barry Sanders, when it really doesn't apply. Elway led his team to Super Bowls though, and won games for them in overtime and the fourth quarter, etc.
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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1. You should be banned for having little knowledge of the sport and being a possible troll.

2. Superior football knowledge? Sorry, but the only knowledge you have is stats. You have no concept of era and actual talent.

3. I don't have a man crush on Elway. I think Manning is one of the top twenty quarterbacks of all-time at this point but for you to say he is EASILY the GREATEST is just insane.

4. Yes, I am aware teams win Super Bowls. I'll be the first to tell you that the rings arguement is stupid. The thing I'm pissed about is for lack of respect for intelligent members of this forum.

5. Drew Bledsoe won a Super Bowl as a back-up quarterback.

6. Awful at throwing the football? I'm sorry but I'm done. I'm done reading your posts. Get out.
1) Its obvious that i have tons of knowledge.
2) Stats are one of my many talents, as is destroying people in arguments by using logical arguments and not simple mancrush arguments of "the golden days"
3) Top 20 LOL he is one of the top 20 i guess... the # is 1
4) It is a stupid argument make sure you tell those people. Atleast i bring something to the table, which are called facts.
5) SUPERBOWL CHAMP HE IS BETTER THAN MARIO RIGHT.... Puh-leeze
6) I used awful as a comparasion to peyton, McNabb is a very good QB, Elway is around there... a bit lower.
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Neo View Post
1) Its obvious that i have tons of knowledge.
2) Stats are one of my many talents, as is destroying people in arguments by using logical arguments and not simple mancrush arguments of "the golden days"
3) Top 20 LOL he is one of the top 20 i guess... the # is 1
4) It is a stupid argument make sure you tell those people. Atleast i bring something to the table, which are called facts.
5) SUPERBOWL CHAMP HE IS BETTER THAN MARIO RIGHT.... Puh-leeze
6) I used awful as a comparasion to peyton, McNabb is a very good QB, Elway is around there... a bit lower.
You bring nothing to this conversation but baseless comments and arguments that don't make sense. Most of your answers to his comments aren't even answering what he said, just you attacking something that you heard somewhere else and sort of applies.

Go home. I'm done arguing this.
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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I didn't even read his last post but here's a message to everyone in the forum. I already got screwed but this guy so I give you this...

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Old 06-08-2007, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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Who the hell is Mario? Marino? Unless I'm being completely stupid right now I can't understand what argument your making here.

No, McNabb's first eight years are not better then Elway's, and even if they were, a QB is not better then someone else because of their first eight years alone, Elway had a HOF career, won Super Bowls, won games, and is most known for his amazing comebacks. You'll just say QB's don't win games, teams do, and make some ridiculous points about how with that logic Addai is better then Barry Sanders, when it really doesn't apply. Elway led his team to Super Bowls though, and won games for them in overtime and the fourth quarter, etc.

How are they not? >>>> even if they were... (they are).. I agree, McNabb hasnt played his last years yet, however... HE IS BETTER FOR THE FIRST 8. Elway is most known atleast for me... by completing 56% of his passes.... I guess you people think about HIS TEAM coming back in games or whatever... McNabb has a pretty great comeback in his career a game that will be shown on NFL classic for years, the 4th and 26 game. You mean HIS TEAM won superbowls and HIS team on games in the 4th Q and overtime... He was just a member of the team. Also maybe if he wasnt sucking it up throwing so many damn picks he wouldnt need comebacks.

Again the manning argument is over. Manning is alot better than Elway. Explain to me how McNabbs first 8 years were not better than Elways.
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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the genius logic that rings determines the greatest QBs?

Since when could a QB singlehandedly do anything?

And why are people always crediting W-L to a QB? What kind of genius logic is that? I wonder what the Tom Brady's and Peyton Manning's would look like with no O-lines, good coaching, and weapons around them? Those guys get no credit?

I love how some QB arguments get down to who has the better record...because QBs and QBs only decide games. Thats why Rex Grossman was the second best QB in the NFL last year, HE'S A SUPER BOWL QB!!11

I mean, Peyton Manning and Dan Marino are/were OBVIOUSLY HUGELY overrated because they didn't have RINGS!! I realize it's the goal and etc...but a QB that produces...alot is more likely to get you there no? No? Is this some crazy guy's brain overthinking the simple results oriented logic of football?

Anyway, I need someone to break this down to my obviously n00b mind.

*Edit* And I love how it usually depends on how well the QB produces, and just how much you like the guy/team. If it's a high producing QB on a really good team, he's got a really good team around him so he's overrated. If he's on a bad team or lacks a supporting cast (defense or something) that sucks...he OBVIOUSLY is overrated because he can't singlehandedly win anything. How does that even work?
[sarcasm]You're absolutely correct. I mean how overrated is leadership.
All you really need are athletic people and if they're more athletic at every area than the players they go against ..then logic would suggest that the team with the most talent wins...everytime.[/sarcasm]

...this is by far the worst argument I've ever heard regarding QB's and a correlation to winning. Why exactly did you make this gross overstatement based on the QB, why stop there...why not say the exact same pointless arguement about coaching staffs and trainers,...hell let's bring in owners and fans in on this too.
I mean seriously, if the Cardinals just had more enthusiastic fans than anyone else their S.B. trophies could line the roads to their stadium.



someone needs a reality check in the worst way.
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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[sarcasm]You're absolutely correct. I mean how overrated is leadership.
All you really need are athletic people and if they're more athletic at every area than the players they go against ..then logic would suggest that the team with the most talent wins...everytime.[/sarcasm]

...this is by far the worst argument I've ever heard regarding QB's and a correlation to winning. Why exactly did you make this gross overstatement based on the QB, why stop there...why not say the exact same pointless arguement about coaching staffs and trainers,...hell let's bring in owners and fans in on this too.
I mean seriously, if the Cardinals just had more enthusiastic fans than anyone else their S.B. trophies could line the roads to their stadium.



someone needs a reality check in the worst way.
I dont even know what you are talking about.

Plain and simple Manning is the best QB to ever put on a jersey, Elway is vastly overrated and there is no doubt that McNabb's career through 8 seasons has been better than Elway's first 8.
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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I dont even know what you are talking about.

Plain and simple Manning is the best QB to ever put on a jersey, Elway is vastly overrated and there is no doubt that McNabb's career through 8 seasons has been better than Elway's first 8.
Hi , I'm earth...have we met ?
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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1) Explain how McNabb's first 8 years were not better (alot better) than Elways.
2) Manning is obviously the greatest QB to ever strap them up. I am sorry for all you people who for some reason hate on him. He is absolutely ridiculous at football.
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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I think theres a reason you have negative rep.
I didnt have a negitive rep until people got all bitter that i dont agree that Elway or Marino or Montana or Johnny U are better than Manning, then i pretty much dominate the argument. So they give me a negitive rep, the mods obviously are playing favorites which i find as ridiculous. Pretty much the people cannot argue logically and cannot defend Elway's 56% completion % and his (lesser McNabb type #'s) so they Negitive rep me. It is really ridiculous. I mean i guess i would be bitter too if i sat around in my house wearing a jersey of some rich guy.
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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I dont even know what you are talking about.

Plain and simple Manning is the best QB to ever put on a jersey, Elway is vastly overrated and there is no doubt that McNabb's career through 8 seasons has been better than Elway's first 8.
And we measure how good someone is through their first 8 seasons? McNabb might not ever be the same after his last injury.

Hell Gayle Sayers is one of the best ever and he didn't even play 8 seasons, he only played 6..

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I didnt have a negitive rep until people got all bitter that i dont agree that Elway or Marino or Montana or Johnny U are better than Manning, then i pretty much dominate the argument. So they give me a negitive rep, the mods obviously are playing favorites which i find as ridiculous. Pretty much the people cannot argue logically and cannot defend Elway's 56% completion % and his (lesser McNabb type #'s) so they Negitive rep me. It is really ridiculous. I mean i guess i would be bitter too if i sat around in my house wearing a jersey of some rich guy.
Dude..

Montana>Manning.

Don't even try.
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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I didnt have a negitive rep until people got all bitter that i dont agree that Elway or Marino or Montana or Johnny U are better than Manning, then i pretty much dominate the argument. So they give me a negitive rep, the mods obviously are playing favorites which i find as ridiculous. Pretty much the people cannot argue logically and cannot defend Elway's 56% completion % and his (lesser McNabb type #'s) so they Negitive rep me. It is really ridiculous. I mean i guess i would be bitter too if i sat around in my house wearing a jersey of some rich guy.
I again, Wonder what mannings #'s would look like if he was on those Elway teams of the late 80's and early 90's.

Pre Rod Smith/Ed McCafree

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Elway
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ewing View Post
I'm sorry to all the mods but that's the nicest way I can put the following. Shut the **** up. You don't know **** about football. It's people like you that **** up the game for the rest of us who actually understand history and different eras. Not only that, but you're so damn stupid you said "Peyton is the greatest QB ever to play the game without playing a superbowl." He just won Super Bowl MVP five months ago you idiot. Get the **** out and never come back.
Wow...my sentiments exactly.. Bless you!
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Old 06-08-2007, 05:48 PM    (permalink
SenorGato
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your only bloody argument is stats. have you watched anyone BUT manning play? has ANYONE used super bowls alone? this is the most poorly constructed argument i've seen in months on this board.
Well...in his defense (kinda)...all other people use sometimes are romanticized intangibles about guys usually taken from one or two great, big playoff games.

Hell, everyone was saying Elway was a huge choker before they won a Super Bowl. And yes, I know its not true totally because they would look completely different without him, but he DID have some pretty good defenses too.
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Old 06-08-2007, 05:55 PM    (permalink
SenorGato
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Elway also ended his career with 2 SB wins.



Elway HOF, Manning not.

Manning will get there. Until he does Manning is not in Elways league.
1. Elway's team, the Broncos, won those. He had an excellent coach, RB, and some pretty good defenses. You fail to mention the 3 lost Super Bowls. I'm not saying Elway isn't a great QB, I'm saying "Elway also ended his career with 2 SB wins" is selling alot of people really short there.

2. WTF? Peyton Manning is as big a lock for the HOF as their is in this league right now.
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Old 06-08-2007, 08:06 PM    (permalink
JeffSamardzijaIRISH
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Originally Posted by Neo View Post
I see you play favorites, and i wasnt talking about anything sexual about it unless you seem to get off thinking about that. I was saying "man crush" a heterosexual man crush.
Bledsoe did win a superbowl, check his ring finger.
Mario Did just fine didnt he, stop covering for Elways suckiness. Elway shouldnt have been throwing to the other team so damn often.
McNabb's first 8 years are better than elways on just about every level are they not?
Okay, who the hell is Mario? Dude you imported Mario onto Madden???
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Old 06-08-2007, 08:26 PM    (permalink
Acreboy
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1. Elway's team, the Broncos, won those. He had an excellent coach, RB, and some pretty good defenses. You fail to mention the 3 lost Super Bowls. I'm not saying Elway isn't a great QB, I'm saying "Elway also ended his career with 2 SB wins" is selling alot of people really short there.

2. WTF? Peyton Manning is as big a lock for the HOF as their is in this league right now.
Elway went back to back. The RB situation shouldn't hold water because as long as Shanahan has been there it's always been "insert RB" and have success. Shanahan knew this and thats why he traded Portis for Bailey. If Portis was important enough he would still be a Bronco.

Also, whats the WTF for? Everyone knows Manning is a lock, but he aint in Canton right now.

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Okay, who the hell is Mario? Dude you imported Mario onto Madden???
If Mario is a DB and he gets beat you can fire shells at the WR. Awesomeness.
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