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Old 06-09-2007, 06:57 PM    (permalink
neko4
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As of right now he is an absolute pathetic bust of a player once he left the Colts an i correct? Yes, i am... so until he proves he can play somewhere else, to assume that he is an extremely talented player haha "STOKELY ESQ" he is a complete bum without having 18 as his QB.

If Stokley was so good he would have started in Balt... i mean my sister could start at WR for them.... then somehow he goes to the colts and becomes amazing... hmmmm
I still dont understand your point? Manning helped Edge? No I think that the Colts O-Line which boasts 2 or 3 former pro bowlers helped him the most. Whereas the Cards O-line has NFLE talent
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Old 06-09-2007, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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As of right now he is an absolute pathetic bust of a player once he left the Colts an i correct? Yes, i am... so until he proves he can play somewhere else, to assume that he is an extremely talented player haha "STOKELY ESQ" he is a complete bum without having 18 as his QB.

If Stokley was so good he would have started in Balt... i mean my sister could start at WR for them.... then somehow he goes to the colts and becomes amazing... hmmmm
Last year in Arizona James had 1159 yards and 6 TDs. In 2002 with the Colts he had 981 yards and 2 TDs.
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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Last year in Arizona James had 1159 yards and 6 TDs. In 2002 with the Colts he had 981 yards and 2 TDs.
Good point especially considering if Edge played two more games he was still 20 yards short of '06 totals
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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By saying Johnny was undersized I was saying he was given less to work w/. He overcame the odds and became a great QB. Same thing for being drafted in the 19th round. Everyone knew (or atleast) expected Manning to be great. No one thought Johnny would become great. He was hurt in Super Bowl 3, and only played in part of the game, plus he was older by then. Get your facts straight because right now every legit football fan on this site is angered by your stupidity and lack of knowledge and im sure they're also laughing at you. You have given a terrible defense of Manning saying that stats are the only thing that matters.
1) I am sorry he was undersized... just another reason manning is better
2) Aww its cute that he overachieved.... but so did Manning by becoming the Greatest QB to ever play the game.
3) Peyton doesnt get hurt... maybe it was because he was "undersized" TOO BAD.

Oh and your "i have a lovey dovey feeling about the small man who suited up for the baltimore colts" argument is AMAZING. Or the "John Elway was great because his team came back, aww how cute"... however it leads the question, why the hell were they down in the first place? maybe because he couldnt complete 60% of his passes and was throwing to many picks... or the "Joe Montana is my hero the WCO and the San Fran Dynasty" forgetting the fact that when it comes down to it Peyton in 9 seasons has already thrown for more TD's than the golden boy did in 15... to call him 2/3's of Manning is overrating him a tad.

When the facts are presented it is clear who is the best.

Peyton Manning... Just watch the greatness while it lasts
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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Neo how much of these other QBs have you ever actually watched?
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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Neo how much of these other QBs have you ever actually watched?
Vast Majority.
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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Last year in Arizona James had 1159 yards and 6 TDs. In 2002 with the Colts he had 981 yards and 2 TDs.
Aww thats cute pointing out a season when he was coming off a serious injury, and he still averaged more yards per carry than in ARI. I mean when you want to be fair you wouldnt pick that season but it still comes out in my favor anyhow... Sorry but when it comes to football knowledge... i am clearly untouchable, whats next...

WELL IN 98 PEYTON LED THE LEAGUE IN INTS... so he sucks
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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This thread is really getting off topic. I hate the way that people attribute the Patriots SB's nearly all to Tom Brady. Before the Colts SB many said Brady was the best qb, why? Because HE won 3 SB's. Just because he is on the best team in the NFL does NOT make him the best qb.

I'll break it down into playing percentage.

Defense- 48%
Running Game- 23%
Passing game- 25%
Special Teams- 4%

So unless the qb fumbles the snap or botches the handoff, only about 25% of the time the qb actually the one leading with his ability. Of course these #'s fluctuate depending on how much a team runs or passes, but this is just a rough estimate. It's ridiculous to award wins solely to a qb.

BTW Peyton Manning is not the best qb in the NFL all time, and Neo please stop saying McNabb is better than Elway you are making Eagles fans look bad.
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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1) I am sorry he was undersized... just another reason manning is better
2) Aww its cute that he overachieved.... but so did Manning by becoming the Greatest QB to ever play the game.
3) Peyton doesnt get hurt... maybe it was because he was "undersized" TOO BAD.

Oh and your "i have a lovey dovey feeling about the small man who suited up for the baltimore colts" argument is AMAZING. Or the "John Elway was great because his team came back, aww how cute"... however it leads the question, why the hell were they down in the first place? maybe because he couldnt complete 60% of his passes and was throwing to many picks... or the "Joe Montana is my hero the WCO and the San Fran Dynasty" forgetting the fact that when it comes down to it Peyton in 9 seasons has already thrown for more TD's than the golden boy did in 15... to call him 2/3's of Manning is overrating him a tad.

When the facts are presented it is clear who is the best.

Peyton Manning... Just watch the greatness while it lasts

“Success is how you bounce on the bottom.”
-Patton
Apparently you dont know US History either.
Please explain why you base everything on stats?
Didnt Marvin Harrison help Manning get those numbers?
Didnt Reggie Wayne help him too?
Also Johnny hardly ever got hurt early in his career, and we've yet to see Peyton with his skills deminished. Also the QB is looked at as the leader on the team, its his job to stay cool and keep the team cool in high pressure situations. If he doesnt then he should be the one to blame. Its definitly something scouts look for and is in the job description.
Also how can you say the Manning's size makes him better?
How can you blame Unitas for not getting great genes?
Sure you can do that when you scout a player but not when you judge greatness?
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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“Success is how you bounce on the bottom.”
-Patton
Apparently you dont know US History either.
Please explain why you base everything on stats?
Didnt Marvin Harrison help Manning get those numbers?
Didnt Reggie Wayne help him too?
Also Johnny hardly ever got hurt early in his career, and we've yet to see Peyton with his skills deminished. Also the QB is looked at as the leader on the team, its his job to stay cool and keep the team cool in high pressure situations. If he doesnt then he should be the one to blame. Its definitly something scouts look for and is in the job description.
Also how can you say the Manning's size makes him better?
How can you blame Unitas for not getting great genes?
Sure you can do that when you scout a player but not when you judge greatness?
I am pretty sure i know more about history than you as well...

Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne have looked great with Peyton as QB... Would they without him? who knows... but considering he made a bum like Stokley look good... (and possible bum edge) it is a possibility his ridiculousness at QB is also making those players look good.

If Johnny U was shorter and better than Peyton i would say it... however the only reason for people saying "he was short, and drafted late" etc etc etc... is because they somehow in their makebelieveland of fairy tales believes he should score bonus points for "overcoming" I'll admit that a Biography of Johnny U would most likely be better but on the field he couldnt even hold Manning's Jock strap... he would be his waterboy.
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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Guys just ignore Neo, it's painfully obvious he is either 12, never watched a football game, or has watched football games but finds it so over his head that he resorts to looking at statistics and claiming his incredibly incorrect opinion as fact. Neo, I hope you leave, and I don't know if you've noticed, but everyone is against you on this one. That's usually a good indicator that you have no ******* clue what you're talking about. There's also a reason you have negative reputation, and it's not because of mods with an agenda(suggesting that is infraction material, by the way). It's because you bring nothing of any worth to any discussion.
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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wow this is just sad. you are trying to say that guys who are legends, cant hold a candle to manning. i think manning is amazing as a qb and will be up there when all is said and done.

you have a terrible argument in that you fully refuse to see the other side. you just sit there and annoint manning as the greatest. i really doubt that you have seen the "vast majority" of these qbs and you are just talking out of your ass.


also please spell check your post.
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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So Peyton has a Higher QB rating am i correct, and every other stat is right there... Plus you act like Marino not playing his rookie year is a disadvantage even though thats when Rookies take their lumps For Example Mannings 28 INT's. So you people are willing to admit that Manning is better by far than every other QB except Marino? and Marino is the only one that can hold a candle to Manning... if you are saying that i'll find that acceptable
uh... 95>94 last time I checked and yes it is imperitive if you're comparing stats to bring them to an even keel, otherwise Peyton has stats for 11 more games, that's almost 1 more season, that's why i compounded what Marino would have done had he played the same amount of games. Marino did play his rook year but was active only 11 and started 9. Manning is worlds behind Marino, Elway and Montana in leadership and football ability. All you spew is QB stats that show Manning has had quality around him his whole career in Edge, and Harrison and even Wayne. He didn't make them, they made him. Edge opened up the air attack by making people stack the box, allowing Harrison to seperate and get the ball from Manning. What would Elways or Marino stats look like if they had teams that had dangerous RBs and a HOF lock WR???
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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This thread is really getting off topic. I hate the way that people attribute the Patriots SB's nearly all to Tom Brady. Before the Colts SB many said Brady was the best qb, why? Because HE won 3 SB's. Just because he is on the best team in the NFL does NOT make him the best qb.

I'll break it down into playing percentage.

Defense- 48%
Running Game- 23%
Passing game- 25%
Special Teams- 4%

So unless the qb fumbles the snap or botches the handoff, only about 25% of the time the qb actually the one leading with his ability. Of course these #'s fluctuate depending on how much a team runs or passes, but this is just a rough estimate. It's ridiculous to award wins solely to a qb.

BTW Peyton Manning is not the best qb in the NFL all time, and Neo please stop saying McNabb is better than Elway you are making Eagles fans look bad.

How are McNabb's first 8 seasons not absolutely better than Elways.... Explain to me how after 8 seasons you could logically choose Elway over McNabb thats insanity... (racism*?)

And yes Peyton is the best QB to ever play the game
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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I furthermore call shenanigans on NEO, I think he's another poster, it's really convenient he suddenly pops on when someone responds, but never really post anything else....
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Neo:
Is Timmy Chang the greatest QB in NCAA history, and is he playing in the NFL right now?
Because if stats are everything then Chang=God
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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uh... 95>94 last time I checked and yes it is imperitive if you're comparing stats to bring them to an even keel, otherwise Peyton has stats for 11 more games, that's almost 1 more season, that's why i compounded what Marino would have done had he played the same amount of games. Marino did play his rook year but was active only 11 and started 9. Manning is worlds behind Marino, Elway and Montana in leadership and football ability. All you spew is QB stats that show Manning has had quality around him his whole career in Edge, and Harrison and even Wayne. He didn't make them, they made him. Edge opened up the air attack by making people stack the box, allowing Harrison to seperate and get the ball from Manning. What would Elways or Marino stats look like if they had teams that had dangerous RBs and a HOF lock WR???
Yeah EDGE IS AMAZING... ARI went to the superbowl last year didnt they.......... oh wait... he was god awful... one of the worst starters in the NFL... My bad i thought you had a point... you didnt
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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Yeah EDGE IS AMAZING... ARI went to the superbowl last year didnt they.......... oh wait... he was god awful... one of the worst starters in the NFL... My bad i thought you had a point... you didnt
I thought you said players were just part of a team, I thought that it took the whole team helping eachother to win games?
Hypocrite
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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uhh... have you ever watched the Cards offensive line??? Jesus you have to be the least informed person to ever walk the earth... Do you even think before you post or do your Peyton panties squeeze your giny so tight that you have no blood flow to the brain???
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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How are McNabb's first 8 seasons not absolutely better than Elways.... Explain to me how after 8 seasons you could logically choose Elway over McNabb thats insanity... (racism*?)

And yes Peyton is the best QB to ever play the game
Yes, I'm a racist. That's why I think Elway is better than McNabb.

I love McNabb, he's one of my favorite players, but honestly there are many reasons Donovan isn't better than Elway. For one, I hate to admit it but Donovan is a pretty ****** leader. He's got great ability, but just isn't a leader. Another, Donovan can't stay healthy. Who cares how good he is if he can't finish a season?

You have absolutely no understanding of the NFL, except for a child-like grasp for stats which cannot define a player. The NFL isn't able to be broken down by stats, stats are just a part of it. Your parochial understanding of what it means to be a quarterback is extremely misguided and you are hopelessly ignorant if you think that Manning is better than Marino was right now. Once Manning is done maybe there can be debate, but as of right now you've got nothing but stats, which don't mean as much as you make them out to.
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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I thought you said players were just part of a team, I thought that it took the whole team helping eachother to win games?
Hypocrite
I do but you are making a case for Edge being amazing... when in fact he is horrible at this sport you call football... If you are going to make a statement that Peyton is only good because of the talent around him you have to prove that he isnt the main reason that those players are good. So far we have Stockley who was awful before Manning and Edge who was awful after Manning... The rest of them havent played without Manning except in college... (and Marvin before Manning, where he wasnt all that special either, but i wont hold that against him)

I love these Man crushes... but any logical person would pick Peyton over Montana, Johnny U, Marino, Elway... and the rest... you are just hating on Peyton for no apparent reason... BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF, Peyton is the best to ever play... i am glad that i get to watch him now and for the next 7-8+ years show how the position should be played
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Neo View Post
I love these Man crushes... but any logical person would pick Peyton over Montana, Johnny U, Marino, Elway... and the rest... you are just hating on Peyton for no apparent reason... BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF, Peyton is the best to ever play... i am glad that i get to watch him now and for the next 7-8+ years show how the position should be played
I will now test this theory
And you seem to have a man crush on Manning
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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Hey guys, this just in: Kurt Warner is the NFLs 3rd best QB all-time. Jay Cutler is better than Tom Brady. These are hard facts. You simply can't argue with them. Also, Steve Young is the best ever, hands down. Sorry Neo, you're out of luck. I am THE authority on football things like this, and these are the stone cold facts. You can't argue with them. you just can't. It wouldn't be possible.
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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Yes, I'm a racist. That's why I think Elway is better than McNabb.

I love McNabb, he's one of my favorite players, but honestly there are many reasons Donovan isn't better than Elway. For one, I hate to admit it but Donovan is a pretty ****** leader. He's got great ability, but just isn't a leader. Another, Donovan can't stay healthy. Who cares how good he is if he can't finish a season?

You have absolutely no understanding of the NFL, except for a child-like grasp for stats which cannot define a player. The NFL isn't able to be broken down by stats, stats are just a part of it. Your parochial understanding of what it means to be a quarterback is extremely misguided and you are hopelessly ignorant if you think that Manning is better than Marino was right now. Once Manning is done maybe there can be debate, but as of right now you've got nothing but stats, which don't mean as much as you make them out to.

First 8 Elway vs McNabb make a case for Elway... Seriously make your best attempt at a case... there really is none... REPEAT AFTER ME MCNABB's FIRST 8 SEASONS ARE BETTER THAN ELWAYS. (by far)
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Neo View Post
I do but you are making a case for Edge being amazing... when in fact he is horrible at this sport you call football... If you are going to make a statement that Peyton is only good because of the talent around him you have to prove that he isnt the main reason that those players are good. So far we have Stockley who was awful before Manning and Edge who was awful after Manning... The rest of them havent played without Manning except in college... (and Marvin before Manning, where he wasnt all that special either, but i wont hold that against him)

I love these Man crushes... but any logical person would pick Peyton over Montana, Johnny U, Marino, Elway... and the rest... you are just hating on Peyton for no apparent reason... BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF, Peyton is the best to ever play... i am glad that i get to watch him now and for the next 7-8+ years show how the position should be played
like yours?
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