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View Poll Results: Testing Neo's Theory
Peyton Manning 24 15.29%
Joe Montana 63 40.13%
John Elway 51 32.48%
Johnny U 19 12.10%
Voters: 157. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-10-2007, 02:21 PM    (permalink
tylerb929
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I could never pick Elway, just like Eli, he had to cry about who picked him until he was traded. Of course that has nothing to do with the way he played the game(or how Eli plays it), I just think its ****** of him. Of all people, I would think the people at nfl DRAFT countdown would understand my opinion on that. Whats the point in the draft if a QB can just cry about having to go play for Indy(Elway) or San Diego (Eli), until their traded to a team that's acceptable to them, if every great player did this ALL small market teams would fail (like Indy did after they were forced to trade Elway) because none of the greats would want to play there.

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Old 06-10-2007, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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Manning is ahead of Unitas. I hope everyone who voted for him never posts on this forum again.
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Old 06-10-2007, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by tylerb929 View Post
I could never pick Elway, just like Eli, he had to cry about who picked him until he was traded. Of course that has nothing to do with the way he played the game(or how Eli plays it), I just think its ****** of him. Of all people, I would think the people at nfl DRAFT countdown would understand my opinion on that. Whats the point in the draft if a QB can just cry about having to go play for Indy(Elway) or San Diego (Eli), until their traded to a team that's acceptable to them, if every great player did this ALL small market teams would fail (like Indy did after they were forced to trade Elway) because none of the greats would want to play there.
WOW. Tell us how you really feel.
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Old 06-10-2007, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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The problem with this comparison is that Manning's career isn't over. He may not be the best now, but could definitely have that title when he's done in the NFL.

Which is why I wont vote.
That's a large part of the problem.
To say right now that Manning's career matches Elways is stupid.

For me it goes
1) Elway
2) Montana
3) Favre
4) Marino
5) Montana
6) Manning
7) Unitias
8) Staubach
9) Tarkenton
10) Jim Kelly
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Old 06-10-2007, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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I could never pick Elway, just like Eli, he had to cry about who picked him until he was traded. Of course that has nothing to do with the way he played the game(or how Eli plays it), I just think its ****** of him. Of all people, I would think the people at nfl DRAFT countdown would understand my opinion on that. Whats the point in the draft if a QB can just cry about having to go play for Indy(Elway) or San Diego (Eli), until their traded to a team that's acceptable to them, if every great player did this ALL small market teams would fail (like Indy did after they were forced to trade Elway) because none of the greats would want to play there.
hahahahaha..funny.
I'm curious, as to whether or not you got to choose where you work (go to school) and what city, state you live in.
Perhaps we should all live under a government that tells us what to do all the time and sit back and shut our mouths if we don't like it, would that be okay with you too ?

I understand the "fans" belief that "it'd be a privilage to play anywhere in the NFL" but when you hold all the cards...why not determine where you want to work. Every other American has that right.
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Old 06-10-2007, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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Aikman never gets no love.
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Old 06-10-2007, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Severe Punishment View Post
hahahahaha..funny.
I'm curious, as to whether or not you got to choose where you work (go to school) and what city, state you live in.
Perhaps we should all live under a government that tells us what to do all the time and sit back and shut our mouths if we don't like it, would that be okay with you too ?

I understand the "fans" belief that "it'd be a privilage to play anywhere in the NFL" but when you hold all the cards...why not determine where you want to work. Every other American has that right.
Except it's been discussed in another thread a couple months ago I think that the NFL can choose to locate players where it wants to increase equality in its different regions, just like a business can choose to relocate productive members of the company in order to increase prodcutivy in less productive regions.

But anyway back onto topic, I voted for Montana based off the accomplishments he had throughout his career, his postseason success, etc.
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Old 06-10-2007, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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I went w/ Manning b/c I have never seen anyone be able to pick apart a defense like him. I also havent seen the others play, and will not go based on stats, but Manning has to be one of the, if not the best ever.
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who retires first: brett favre or aaron rodgers?
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Old 06-10-2007, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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I went w/ Manning b/c I have never seen anyone be able to pick apart a defense like him. I also havent seen the others play, and will not go based on stats, but Manning has to be one of the, if not the best ever.
You've never seen Elway play?
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Old 06-10-2007, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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I seriously wanna see Manning break Unitas' record for most consecutive games w/ a TD pass (47)
Plus he threw 40,000 yards in an age where 25,000 was a feat
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Old 06-10-2007, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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Aikman never gets no love.
I thought Aikman was a better version of Brad Johnson.
Neither is prolific in their own right, they're more "proficient" they
make very few mistakes, don't fumble ...throw stupid balls and always
knew where to be on the field. Decent vision and were (for Johnson was only "at times) surrounded by elite talent on all sides.

The 90's Dallas Cowboys were the most dominant / talented teams ever.
Also their coaching staffs were unbelievable great.
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Old 06-10-2007, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Old 06-10-2007, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Except it's been discussed in another thread a couple months ago I think that the NFL can choose to locate players where it wants to increase equality in its different regions, just like a business can choose to relocate productive members of the company in order to increase prodcutivy in less productive regions.

But anyway back onto topic, I voted for Montana based off the accomplishments he had throughout his career, his postseason success, etc.
Fine, but here's the problem I have with that.
If a buisnessman (say "John") gets relocated then it's his call whether
or not to accept the position and move there.
This guy is taking that decision out of players hands and saying "what's good for the buisness should be followed without so much as a word"
For christs sake this isn't China.
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Old 06-10-2007, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Severe Punishment View Post
Fine, but here's the problem I have with that.
If a buisnessman (say "John") gets relocated then it's his call whether
or not to accept the position and move there.
This guy is taking that decision out of players hands and saying "what's good for the buisness should be followed without so much as a word"
For christs sake this isn't China.
If they don't like the business though, then they can look for other jobs in similar areas (AFL, CFL, etc.) Those businesses don't pay as well though, so you either deal with the circumstances for the higher pay, or look for work elsewhere. For example, I work at Commerce Bank as a teller. We are open more hours then other banks, and a lot of times I don't like working late. I can choose to go work in another bank, but the pay is better with Commerce, so I choose not to.
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Old 06-10-2007, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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By Decade
40's-Sammy Baugh/Graham
50's-Otto Graham/Johnny U
60's-Johnny U/Starr/Jurgenson
70's-Bradshaw/Staubach/Tarkenton
80's-Montana/Marino/Elway
90's-Elway/Favre/Aikman
00's-Manning/Brady/Favre
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Old 06-10-2007, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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You've never seen Elway play?
I wasnt a big football fan when I back in those days when I was under 10yrs old. I really didnt start paying attention till about 11/12 years old (6th - 7th grade). But whenever I watch manning, I am just awestruck by his ability to make plays happen every single play. He is just so smart, and so talented that I think he is the best QB...maybe even ever
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Old 06-10-2007, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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The fact that Elway dominated in 2 decades is amazing by itself.
Manning deserves "some" hype but it will take him a good 5 years IMO to put him over Elway.
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Old 06-10-2007, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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If they don't like the business though, then they can look for other jobs in similar areas (AFL, CFL, etc.) Those businesses don't pay as well though, so you either deal with the circumstances for the higher pay, or look for work elsewhere. For example, I work at Commerce Bank as a teller. We are open more hours then other banks, and a lot of times I don't like working late. I can choose to go work in another bank, but the pay is better with Commerce, so I choose not to.
Why would "they" have to look for work in other area's when other teams are offering them jobs. This is one of the worst arguments I've ever read on here. You're saying that if the team that drafts them doesn't come to an agreement with these "prospects" then those prospects should be kicked out of the league ??? This is stupidity at its finest.

If you don't like your crappy teller job, guess what ? You can find work at ANOTHER bank, that's willing to pay you more. You are NOT obligated to remain at a job where you don't want to be.....welcome to America !

PLUS, you're making my point without even realizing it with your last 2 statements.
"I CHOOSE to work for X bank, I could make more elsewhere but I CHOOSE not to"
You have the choice to select where you work.
Just like Eli and John did. They had choices...just because the NFL says "This team retains your rights" doesn't mean they're obligated to go there and have no say on it.

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Old 06-10-2007, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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The fact that Elway dominated in 2 decades is amazing by itself.
Manning deserves "some" hype but it will take him a good 5 years IMO to put him over Elway.
The fact that he took 3 teams to the bowl with the 3 very average WR's known as "the 3 amigo's" and a RB called Sammy Winder should be enough to put him at the top. Talent, determination, knowlege, drive, leadership
The guy had everything. and he wasnt afraid to put himself (physcially) on the line all the time regardless of whether or not it was the "safe" thing to do. ...plus I'm happy he crushed those over rated "dirty birds" in 98.
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Old 06-10-2007, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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Why would "they" have to look for work in other area's when other teams are offering them jobs. This is one of the worst arguments I've ever read on here. You're saying that if the team that drafts them doesn't come to an agreement with these "prospects" then those prospects should be kicked out of the league ??? This is stupidity at its finest.
If you don't like your crappy teller job, guess what ? You can find work at ANOTHER bank, that's willing to pay you more. You are NOT obligated to remain at a job where you don't want to be.....welcome to America !

PLUS, you're making my point without even realizing it with your last 2 statements.
"I CHOOSE to work for X bank, I could make more elsewhere but I CHOOSE not to"
You have the choice to select where you work.
Just like Eli and John did. They had choices...just because the NFL says "This team retains your rights" doesn't mean they're obligated to go there and have no say on it.
Hm, okay calm down buddy...its a relatively insignificant argument that is off-topic for the thread anyway so relax.

First of all the other "teams" that are offering them jobs are part of the same company. How often do separate branches compete against each other and try to steal their employees? Almost never, because they are all part of a larger company, in this case the NFL. The teams aren't the businesses the NFL is. Who said they should be kicked out of the league also, they can sign the offer that the business gives them, or look for work with another business (another leauge, not team, as the teams are just part of the overall business)...

Second of all, you missed the point on my bank analogy. Not only do I not care what you think of my job, being as a bank teller is as good a job as seventeen year olds are going to come by, but the point is the places that pay more often demand more out of you. In the NFL case, the demanding more, is deciding where you will play, and what team you will play for.

Yeah, I'm sure that's one of the worst arguments you've ever read on here.
And as far as me making my point for you, I wasn't, you misunderstood. I would be making your point for you if I said a differnet Commerce Branch would pay me more or less, but I'm not I'm talking about another bank altogether, or "league".
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Old 06-10-2007, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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Let's not forget Steve Young. As a Cowboy fan, I grew up hating him and the 9ers with a passion, but he deserves mention as one of the greats of this generation. And I think a solid argument can be made that he was the very best. I don't want to start any unnecessary arguments, but I'd take him before some of the other guys mentioned. Sure he benefited greatly from playing in the WCO, but the same can be said for Joe. And Joe was in it before defenses began to come up with an answer for it.
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Old 06-10-2007, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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Let's not forget Steve Young. As a Cowboy fan, I grew up hating him and the 9ers with a passion, but he deserves mention as one of the greats of this generation. And I think a solid argument can be made that he was the very best. I don't want to start any unnecessary arguments, but I'd take him before some of the other guys mentioned. Sure he benefited greatly from playing in the WCO, but the same can be said for Joe. And Joe was in it before defenses began to come up with an answer for it.
amen dude!
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Old 06-10-2007, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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I said Joe Montana.
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Old 06-10-2007, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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Hm, okay calm down buddy...its a relatively insignificant argument that is off-topic for the thread anyway so relax.
First off, you have no idea what kind of mental state I'm in.
I'm laughing at you...so , while your intentions could be seen as a good
natured suggestion. Trust me , I'm just fine.

Quote:
First of all the other "teams" that are offering them jobs are part of the same company.
Nope, wrong again.
There are 32 buisnesses operating under 1 league. The league sets rules
as do each team. The rules of the league are designed (theoretically) to
give balance to all 32 buisness competing for the same goal, while at the same time trying to generate as much money as possible.
Each team though is seperate from all other 31 teams. Make no mistake of that.

Quote:
How often do separate branches compete against each other and try to steal their employees?
Ummm every single day. "steal" might not be the operative word..however
if your company could let you go and hire someone else to do the same job at exactly the same production yet at 1/2 the cost , you sir would be fired. There are no loyalties in todays buisness except with the decision makers and their lust for power.
and we're not talking about 1 team here having power over all other 31 teams...even the league doesn't do that. We're talking about A and B and C companies. To think that company A isn't trying to lure company "b"'s top employees...guess again.

Quote:
Almost never, because they are all part of a larger company,
This doesn't even translate to our discussion.

Quote:
in this case the NFL. The teams aren't the businesses the NFL is.
Good lord how can you not get this ????
The NFL is a buisness that "hired" 32 seperate buisnesses. The league
has ultimate power over how things are run...but teams are free to deal
with their own buisness as they see fit.
Unless you honestly believe that Roger Goodell cares whether or not Jamarcus Russell signs with Oakland..if you do then I can just label you insaine and move on to other topics.

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Who said they should be kicked out of the league also,
You did when you offered up the CFL arena league and europe NFL as the alternatives to not signing with the team that drafted the player.

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they can sign the offer that the business gives them, or look for work with another business (another leauge, not team, as the teams are just part of the overall business).
Horribly wrong.
The players have and will continue to push to play for who they feel most comfortable playing for. Most of these 22 year old kids just don't undestand they have that right. When this belief becomes more "common" and sense takes over...they will have to put "buisness law" or more rules
to eliminate that. Until then the Eli Mannings and John Elway's of life will continue to have control over themselves and where they choose to work.

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Second of all, you missed the point on my bank analogy. Not only do I not care what you think of my job, being as a bank teller is as good a job as seventeen year olds are going to come by, but the point is the places that pay more often demand more out of you.
This wasn't a point.....unless you meant to better defend my statement as a fact. You Choose to work there...just as you could choose to quit, as for more money, fewer hours...blah blah blah. Then your employer would have to make a decision based on the fairness of your request.
However no one...no buisness and no league can tell you where you "must" work. To think so is sillly.


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In the NFL case, the demanding more, is deciding where you will play, and what team you will play for.
wrong again batman.
The league can tell a kid who his rights are held by (for 3 years) however
no kid MUST play for said team.
I think you're failing to realize that Eli Manning's trade was in part because
San Diego KNEW they couldn't force him to play ,...but they could dictate
what they could recieve in return.
They had no intentions of ever signing him...but it was smart buisness to take him , and "acution his rights" away to the highest bidder.
NY was just stupid enough to give the Chargers what they felt was adequate compensation.


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Yeah, I'm sure that's one of the worst arguments you've ever read on here.
I have no intention of trying to prove my feelings to you.
But , I stand by what I said.

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And as far as me making my point for you, I wasn't, you misunderstood. I would be making your point for you if I said a differnet Commerce Branch would pay me more or less, but I'm not I'm talking about another bank altogether, or "league".
Well sense each "branch" in this league is a seperate entity..then yes, you are. Keep trying to convince yourself you aren't though.
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Old 06-10-2007, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by duckseason View Post
Let's not forget Steve Young. As a Cowboy fan, I grew up hating him and the 9ers with a passion, but he deserves mention as one of the greats of this generation. And I think a solid argument can be made that he was the very best. I don't want to start any unnecessary arguments, but I'd take him before some of the other guys mentioned. Sure he benefited greatly from playing in the WCO, but the same can be said for Joe. And Joe was in it before defenses began to come up with an answer for it.
If you include his USFL days then sure, he could be included as "one of" the best QB's ever. His days in Tampa were a waste and then his years north of the boarder limited the production he could've had in the NFL...but he had everything you look for in a franchise style QB.
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