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Old 06-21-2007, 08:11 PM    (permalink
Splat
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Originally Posted by The Great Jonathan Vilma View Post
I don't think LJ wearing down is something they are concerned with right now, because at worst he has another 4 years in him IMO. how long a deal is he looking for??
Both sides want to do a long term deal 6 or 7 years from what I understand but the Chiefs want it to be back loaded and LJ wants big money the first few years I don't blame him. The guy has been making less then some back up RB's the last two years this year if nothing changes he would make 1.7 mill while M.Turner in SD is making 2.5 that is crap.
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Old 06-21-2007, 08:22 PM    (permalink
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Both sides want to do a long term deal 6 or 7 years from what I understand but the Chiefs want it to be back loaded and LJ wants big money the first few years I don't blame him. The guy has been making less then some back up RB's the last two years this year if nothing changes he would make 1.7 mill while M.Turner in SD is making 2.5 that is crap.
He will produce soon not later so why not front load it?
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Old 06-21-2007, 08:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Phrost View Post
He will produce soon not later so why not front load it?
The Chiefs want to backload it because that way they can get rid of him before the big money is due. Just look at the Clements signing in SF as an example. It was somethign like a 7yr deal, but he will probably only be there the first 4 and then they will get rid of him to avoid ponying up the doe.
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Old 06-21-2007, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by kmartin575 View Post
Tony Gonzalez?

Hello

I know people have heard of him.

We also have some good backups at runningback with Michael Bennett and Kolby Smith. Eddie Kennison is still a dependable wide receiver and we have several young talented wide receivers with Dwayne Bowe, Jeff Webb, and Chris Hannon. Hannon is probably the fastest guy on the field and is catching everything that is thrown his way.

I guess I could say the Skins only weapon is Clinton Portis.
A little late on this here, but not much else going on to post about...

I think you're overexagerating the Chiefs' weapons a little bit here. Every team has a guy they consider to be a steady contributor (your Eddie Kennison). That doesn't mean you count that guy as a weapon just because they are average. Then you have more young and unproven WRs, who may show signs they are strong weapons, but haven't shown it yet. Backups, especially to guys who get 400+ carries/touches a year, are not all that dangerous themselves either.

The only one I would give you is Tony Gonzalez, who is still a top TE in the league, but is slowed down/slowing down, and won't be that option much longer.

On top of all that, who is throwing the ball, the third round draft choice Brodie Croyle with 0 NFL experience, or the career backup Damon Huard who looked good in a couple games but has started about 14 games in 11 years.

You also could say that the Skins only have Clinton Portis, but you'd be ignoring Santana Moss who has shown he is a good receiver, Chris Cooley who has had two very strong years in a row, and even Antwaan Randle El, who is far from a stud, but is an explosive player.

LJ is not the Chiefs only weapon, but he is certainly not surrounded by a ton of talent. He's got guys who have potential around him, and a decent backup, but he's not on an all-star roster.
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Old 06-21-2007, 09:03 PM    (permalink
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i think that they should work it somewhat like the nba does. they should have a max contract type thing where all the elite players cant go passed a certain contract level. that way people wont start thinking they are underpaid just because one team way overpays a player and such.
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Old 06-21-2007, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by kmartin575 View Post
Tony Gonzalez?

Hello

I know people have heard of him.

We also have some good backups at runningback with Michael Bennett and Kolby Smith. Eddie Kennison is still a dependable wide receiver and we have several young talented wide receivers with Dwayne Bowe, Jeff Webb, and Chris Hannon. Hannon is probably the fastest guy on the field and is catching everything that is thrown his way.

I guess I could say the Skins only weapon is Clinton Portis.


michael bennett is not good. you have fun with him.
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Old 06-21-2007, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by kmartin575 View Post
Tony Gonzalez?

Hello

I know people have heard of him.

We also have some good backups at runningback with Michael Bennett and Kolby Smith. Eddie Kennison is still a dependable wide receiver and we have several young talented wide receivers with Dwayne Bowe, Jeff Webb, and Chris Hannon. Hannon is probably the fastest guy on the field and is catching everything that is thrown his way.

I guess I could say the Skins only weapon is Clinton Portis.

Inexperienced QBs (Huard is still pretty new, and you just dumped your best QB with Green)

Dumped Hall, your only playmaker outside of LJ and now you have Kennison and a line that has lost a step. Bowe looks promising, but if you don't have LJ, your cooked. Have fun with Bennett.

I mean, at least when CP was out our offense was fairly full functional (with Campbell). Take LJ from the Chiefs and your not even sniffing past Denver or San Diego. So either pay up, or bite the bullet this year and start rebuilding around Croyle.

Gonzo is good, but is on the downside of his career, and the last thing he should be doing is helping restructure a team.
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Old 06-21-2007, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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The Cheifs are losing olineman and haven't replaced them. They had no offense except LJ last season.

If you're going to ride him... he should get paid like it
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Old 06-21-2007, 10:32 PM    (permalink
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LJ is a complete workhorse and the Chiefs seem to have no problem running him into the ground. Lets not forget that KC didnt treat him all that great his first couple years. In my opinion he's thinking,
1. Demand lots of money and make my stay in KC worth it.
2. If they dont give me the cash i get a new team, what I want.
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Old 06-21-2007, 10:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Splat420 View Post
Both sides want to do a long term deal 6 or 7 years from what I understand but the Chiefs want it to be back loaded and LJ wants big money the first few years I don't blame him. The guy has been making less then some back up RB's the last two years this year if nothing changes he would make 1.7 mill while M.Turner in SD is making 2.5 that is crap.
I would actually rather frontload it. With all of the veterans we parted ways with this offseason I believe we are going to have alot of cap room next year. Most of our high priced players are gone. I would rather sign LJ to a deal where the majority the salary is paid the next couple of years. That way by the time he is 31 or 32 if he does hit a wall we can cut him if we wanted to and the cap hit would not be that large.
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Old 06-21-2007, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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A little late on this here, but not much else going on to post about...

I think you're overexagerating the Chiefs' weapons a little bit here. Every team has a guy they consider to be a steady contributor (your Eddie Kennison). That doesn't mean you count that guy as a weapon just because they are average. Then you have more young and unproven WRs, who may show signs they are strong weapons, but haven't shown it yet. Backups, especially to guys who get 400+ carries/touches a year, are not all that dangerous themselves either.

The only one I would give you is Tony Gonzalez, who is still a top TE in the league, but is slowed down/slowing down, and won't be that option much longer.

On top of all that, who is throwing the ball, the third round draft choice Brodie Croyle with 0 NFL experience, or the career backup Damon Huard who looked good in a couple games but has started about 14 games in 11 years.

You also could say that the Skins only have Clinton Portis, but you'd be ignoring Santana Moss who has shown he is a good receiver, Chris Cooley who has had two very strong years in a row, and even Antwaan Randle El, who is far from a stud, but is an explosive player.

LJ is not the Chiefs only weapon, but he is certainly not surrounded by a ton of talent. He's got guys who have potential around him, and a decent backup, but he's not on an all-star roster.
Tony Gonzalez is not slowing down. He still had a pro bowl year last year. Shannon Sharpe went well into his 30's and I see no reason why Tony can't also. Tony Gonzalez is well known for taking great care of his body and he has only had a few minor injuries in his career.

People should realize that the only difference between this Chiefs offense and the record breaking offense of several years ago is the offensive line. We didn't have any more offensive weapons then than we do now. Our wide receivers consisted of Eddie Kennison and Johnnie Morton. We will not be a top 5 offense anymore but we still easily have the talent to open room up for LJ and to rank in the middle of the pack on offense. Last year we put up 41 points on San Fransisco and we put up 30+ against Seattle and San Diego. We have more weapons than last year and this offense can be explosive at times. With the improvements on defense we have made the offense only needs to be middle of the pack.
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Old 06-21-2007, 10:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Man_Of_Steel View Post
LJ is a complete workhorse and the Chiefs seem to have no problem running him into the ground. Lets not forget that KC didnt treat him all that great his first couple years. In my opinion he's thinking,
1. Demand lots of money and make my stay in KC worth it.
2. If they dont give me the cash i get a new team, what I want.
That was Dick Vermeil who treated him like ****. Dick Vermeil didn't want to draft him in the first place and they never got along. Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards love LJ. LJ has been a model citizen recently and the Chiefs should have no problem with giving him his money.
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Old 06-21-2007, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller View Post
The Cheifs are losing olineman and haven't replaced them. They had no offense except LJ last season.

If you're going to ride him... he should get paid like it
Didn't replace them? I don't necessarily blame anybody for this but most people outside of KC don't know what they are talking about on this. Believe it or not the team has planned on this retirement. John Welbourn was a very good guard in Philly and should do better at guard for us than he did at tackle. We also signed Damion McIntosh who is no pro bowler but is an upgrade over Jordan Black. And then we signed Chris Terry last year who is going to start at right tackle. He was a very good right tackle for both Carolina and Seattle. He is an upgrade over the injury prone Kevin Sampson. This line is better than the one we had last year, even without Will Shields.
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Old 06-21-2007, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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That was Dick Vermeil who treated him like ****. Dick Vermeil didn't want to draft him in the first place and they never got along. Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards love LJ. LJ has been a model citizen recently and the Chiefs should have no problem with giving him his money.
If you can't get along with Dick Vermeil, you are the problem.
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Old 06-21-2007, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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Tony Gonzalez is not slowing down. He still had a pro bowl year last year. Shannon Sharpe went well into his 30's and I see no reason why Tony can't also. Tony Gonzalez is well known for taking great care of his body and he has only had a few minor injuries in his career.
Tony Gonzalez is a great player yes, but saying he's at the same level he was a couple years ago is a little homerish of you. No doubt he takes good care of himself, and he is a good player, but he simply does not have the same tools he did now. Again to reiterate, still good, but slowing down. I wasn't discounting him as a weapon.

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Originally Posted by kmartin575 View Post
People should realize that the only difference between this Chiefs offense and the record breaking offense of several years ago is the offensive line.
Trent Green? (A great QB at the time)

Not to mention the strength of the Chiefs team for years has been Offensive Line. They had one of the best offensive lines of all time, so to say "that's the only difference is ridiculous. Oh and that offense also had Priest Holmes, who was a more versatile threat then LJ.

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Originally Posted by kmartin575 View Post
We didn't have any more offensive weapons then than we do now. Our wide receivers consisted of Eddie Kennison and Johnnie Morton. We will not be a top 5 offense anymore but we still easily have the talent to open room up for LJ and to rank in the middle of the pack on offense.
But you still don't really have weapons aside from LJ, and an aging Tony Gonzalez, which is what I said in my original post.

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Originally Posted by kmartin575 View Post
Last year we put up 41 points on San Fransisco and we put up 30+ against Seattle and San Diego. We have more weapons than last year and this offense can be explosive at times. With the improvements on defense we have made the offense only needs to be middle of the pack.
Scoring over 30 three times a season is nothing that special. As far as having more weapons, I wouldn't necesarily say that either. What is so different from last year, aside from the fact that your O-Line (and TE) all got older, you lost Trent Green (who I know, was not a weapon last year), and you added a rookie WR. I wouldn't consider a rookie WR a weapon, given the high bust factor that comes with them, which really I don't see where the offense got these new weapons from. As far as the defense, thats another argument I won't pretend like I know enough about to be a part of, right now. I wasn't arguing that in the first place, it was the "offensive weapons" aside from LJ I objected too.
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Old 06-21-2007, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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+ Skins got Saunders :)
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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its just crazy that he wants more money, even though he is already a multi millionare
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:07 AM    (permalink
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its just crazy that he wants more money, even though he is already a multi millionare
LJ has been playing on a rookie contract, its not like he has cashed in already.
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:09 AM    (permalink
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LJ has been playing on a rookie contract, its not like he has cashed in already.
oh my bad, blanked right there

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Old 06-22-2007, 12:15 AM    (permalink
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oh my bad, i blanked right there
His position is one of the highest risk positions too though. He could easily go down and end his career. Not many guys have plans after the NFL, not everyone is a Gado.

Nothing wrong with getting the money you deserve, doesn't matter if it is millions.
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:18 AM    (permalink
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I have no problem with what LJ is doing, if the Chiefs want to run him into the ground, I would want the money that I'm going to lose from those years I'm going to lose from having to retire early.
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:22 AM    (permalink
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His position is one of the highest risk positions too though. He could easily go down and end his career. Not many guys have plans after the NFL, not everyone is a Gado.

Nothing wrong with getting the money you deserve, doesn't matter if it is millions.
ya i just thought he got a new deal like a couple years ago but then after i posted realized he had only been in the league like 5 years
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Old 06-22-2007, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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He deserves a new contract that isnt backloaded. The Cheifs run him to the ground and who knows how long he will be able to pay, and the Chiefs dont want to pay him, even though they are risking his health and NFL career? I dont see whast wrong with what Johnson wants.
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Old 06-22-2007, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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I dont see whast wrong with what Johnson wants.
What Johnson wants is more then what LT got should they pay the man heck ya should they pay him LT money heck NO!
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Old 06-23-2007, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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What Johnson wants is more then what LT got should they pay the man heck ya should they pay him LT money heck NO!
actually LJ's agent(take it for what it's worth) said he's not asking for the 80-90 million dollar deal as has been reported.He want as much guaranteed as LT got but not total value.I would give him 20-25 million guaranteed
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