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Old 09-10-2009, 10:05 AM    (permalink
Brent
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Let's steer this back to the topic at hand:



That said, I love watching/cheering for the USA Soccer men's team, but MLS is a joke.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang View Post
I gotta say, you have to really like one team though or you have to be extremely interested in the sport. If you watch normal games between two rather average teams, its gonna get really boring. This is where basketball and football would have the edge imo. but if u have great games, let say just for me, like portugal vs germany or turkey vs germany in the last euro, it is one of the most exciting things to watch.
True, and this is where watching high level soccer comes into play. The same thing can be said for football and basketball though, if you are a neutral fan watching NBDL games it's going to be just as boring as watching a soccer game in the same fashion.

You watch NFL Europe (or the CFL since the former is non-existent now) and there is a huge difference between those leagues and the NFL.

Americans need to watch high level soccer before they judge it as boring. Now maybe wogitalia has watched an EPL match before and if this is the case then I stand corrected, but for the most part Americans call soccer boring because they don't understand the game (appreciate its attributes) or they have not watched high level soccer before.

Soccer is called boring because there isn't enough scoring. Americans love scoring because it is excitement.

Edit: And with that we can get back to the thread at hand. Sorry for hijacking. :D
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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To each his own, but the thing about soccer is that you appreciate things that don't end up on the scoreboard. The run of play is to me the best part. The anticipation of a goal scoring opportunity is a roller coaster ride of emotions. In America with sports like Basketball and Football, scoring is at a premium and a lot of the time points are not valued very much. A goal is so much more important than a touchdown or a 3 pointer because that one goal could mean the difference in the game.

Soccer is like a giant chess match. Most likely a team is not going to score 5 goals, so you have to take advantage of the opportunities you have. What I also like about soccer is that there are no "tv timeouts" for players to collect themselves or for a coach to adjust. You have to wait until Halftime to do so. Injuries can be used as timeouts but for the most part it's non-stop for 45 minutes.

I have no qualms if you don't like soccer, but I will ask if the reason you don't like it is because you don't understand it. You say there is 90 seconds of action in a 90 minute match. I assume you mean the scoring opportunities in those 90 seconds. The build up of the attack, the counters, the switching of the field to get another look are things that soccer fans look at and appreciate. Goals are a byproduct of great play and I like that soccer probably has the least amount of points score per game of any of the major sports because you get to appreciate the run of play rather than a score.

The biggest argument against soccer is that there is not enough scoring, and a majority of the time that argument comes from Americans. There's a reason why soccer is the world's most popular sport and I think that because American's don't see the best of the best (EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga) and are subjected to watching the MLS and the US Qualifying matches that non-soccer fans don't get a taste of the best of the best. I don't know if you've ever seen an EPL match but I encourage you to watch it and maybe it will change your opinion on how you view soccer. Love or hate ESPN but I think it's a great that they are putting the EPL and La Liga games on during the weekends.

Just my two cents.
I'm not a big soccer fan myself, but I think you have some great points. 1. I don't understand it. I played for 2-3 years, but that was back when I was 7 and I had no clue about anything. 2. You made a great great point about not being able to see the best soccer available here in North America. A lot of people here, myself included, don't wanna watch a second rate league(unless it's college sports, which is different). Of course there are exceptions, like some minor league baseball teams. I like to watch soccer during the Euros and the World Cup though. It certainly has a lot of exciting moments even when goals aren't being scored. Any scoring chance is really exhilirating. But there are also a lot of down times, like when you see defenders just passing the ball between each other, or the ball gets bogged down in midfield.

But I think soccer is going to continue to rise in popularity(especially if we can get good games on TV at reasonable hours for north america), and a lot of it has to do with the quality of the soccer video games. Those things are so much fun. I think video games are a great way to increase the popularity of a sport. You play the game, see how fun it is, and then you want to watch a soccer game(that's where getting premier league/Serie A/etc. games here at good hours would be great).

Also though I think sometimes soccer fans are very, very annoying about soccer and that turns people off.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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I love watching soccer only from the elite and good teams from the Euro leagues. The MLS makes me feel like we (NFLDC) could make a team and be half decent. I like seeing crisp passes and how things set up. The energy from one goal is equivalent to a last second or game winning TD, fieldgoal, or three pointer.



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Old 09-10-2009, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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"om nom nom nom"





I can't believe that there are actually wrestlers who are willing to take part in that move. I'd quit before I took part in either side of that move. :D
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Old 09-10-2009, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-10-2009, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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I can't believe that there are actually wrestlers who are willing to take part in that move. I'd quit before I took part in either side of that move. :D
What about greased up body builders rolling around in speedos is not ***?
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-10-2009, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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To each his own, but the thing about soccer is that you appreciate things that don't end up on the scoreboard. The run of play is to me the best part. The anticipation of a goal scoring opportunity is a roller coaster ride of emotions. In America with sports like Basketball and Football, scoring is at a premium and a lot of the time points are not valued very much. A goal is so much more important than a touchdown or a 3 pointer because that one goal could mean the difference in the game.
That is part of why I like Football, the importance of individual scores, I'm actually in the minority over here in Australia in regards to our version of football, I would rather a close physical game than high scoring, same for football, to me scoring is not important.

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Soccer is like a giant chess match. Most likely a team is not going to score 5 goals, so you have to take advantage of the opportunities you have. What I also like about soccer is that there are no "tv timeouts" for players to collect themselves or for a coach to adjust. You have to wait until Halftime to do so. Injuries can be used as timeouts but for the most part it's non-stop for 45 minutes.
Certainly a positive to the sport, at the same time the tactical element is what makes other sports that allow these adjustments great. I respect the whole emphasis on the players and skill.

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I have no qualms if you don't like soccer, but I will ask if the reason you don't like it is because you don't understand it. You say there is 90 seconds of action in a 90 minute match. I assume you mean the scoring opportunities in those 90 seconds. The build up of the attack, the counters, the switching of the field to get another look are things that soccer fans look at and appreciate. Goals are a byproduct of great play and I like that soccer probably has the least amount of points score per game of any of the major sports because you get to appreciate the run of play rather than a score.
I'm from Australia, EPL is our adopted league and I have seen plenty of it, several of my best mates are soccer fans. I also played the sport for several years, it is actually a really fun sport to play. I just don't enjoy watching it. What I don't like is the constant delaying of the game, I certainly prefer Brazilian league soccer as there is more of an emphasis on attack over there. I quite enjoy games from the 70s, 80s and even early 90s when teams actually looked to score, this possession soccer that teams play now is just painful to watch(for me). I honestly believe that soccer right now has gotten to a point like the NBA was before the shot clock, the games are kind of painful as teams hold the ball as a means of stopping the opposition. Worst example of this I can remember was Australia V Italy in the last World Cup, that was just a horrible game as Australia basically had the sole intention of possession and Italy were quite happy to sit back and try and counter-attack, which would have been fine except Australia never attacked so it became basically 88 minutes of Australia kicking a ball backwards.


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The biggest argument against soccer is that there is not enough scoring, and a majority of the time that argument comes from Americans. There's a reason why soccer is the world's most popular sport and I think that because American's don't see the best of the best (EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga) and are subjected to watching the MLS and the US Qualifying matches that non-soccer fans don't get a taste of the best of the best. I don't know if you've ever seen an EPL match but I encourage you to watch it and maybe it will change your opinion on how you view soccer. Love or hate ESPN but I think it's a great that they are putting the EPL and La Liga games on during the weekends.
As I said, scoring is not important, I'll enjoy a game that is 3-0 in the NFL if it is a good game, the teams move the ball and their good battles. Scoring to me is not how I measure a good game. For me I think "aggression" is what I want to see, I want to see a team doing what it can to try and score, take a risk and try and break a game open, pretty much regardless of the sport. Modern soccer just doesn't have this, it isn't uncommon for a game to have 20 shots in it total.

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Just my two cents.
Fair enough, I enjoy playing the sport, I enjoy FIFA and I really enjoy Football Manager as games, I just don't enjoy watching soccer in it's current fashion outside of highlights packages. I honestly think that soccer should look at the NBA and steal either the shot clock or halfcourt violation rules, both would make it a better sport to watch, I just hate that everyone is so focused on possession to the point that they wont attempt shots and to be honest, there is nothing better than long shots and aggressive play in soccer just not enough of it. I also can't stand the diving and acting, it has gotten way out of hand.

Basically I like soccer, I just don't enjoy watching it. I feel the same about Cricket and Baseball for what it's worth. I enjoy playing, simulating and what not, I just don't like watching them, that's just me, I actually quite enjoyed watching all 3 back in the early 90s and enjoy the historical stuff from prior to that, just think that all 3 have become stale for lack of a better word and involve a lot of waiting for something to happen.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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But I think soccer is going to continue to rise in popularity(especially if we can get good games on TV at reasonable hours for north america), and a lot of it has to do with the quality of the soccer video games. Those things are so much fun. I think video games are a great way to increase the popularity of a sport. You play the game, see how fun it is, and then you want to watch a soccer game(that's where getting premier league/Serie A/etc. games here at good hours would be great).
Couldn't agree more on the video games element. I am pretty sure I would not leave the home if there was an NFL, AFL or NBA game as good as Football Manager is, I would just quit everything and be quite content with that. That game is pretty much the pinnacle in sports gaming imo and unlike a certain NFL game, it actually gets better each year and is worth buying for more than a roster update. I actually know more about soccer from playing that game than most of my mates who have played it their whole lives...
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:25 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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WTF are you doing posting funny pictures in the Soccer Discussion thread?
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:57 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:56 PM    (permalink
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What's with all the unopened beer in the first one? Surely those pictures are cooler if it's of a mate passed out and surrounded by the empties...

2nd and 3rd appear to be much better.
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:06 AM    (permalink
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What's with all the unopened beer in the first one? Surely those pictures are cooler if it's of a mate passed out and surrounded by the empties...

2nd and 3rd appear to be much better.
You can't really put beer around someone like that if they are passed out, it's gotta be someone posing.
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:25 AM    (permalink
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What's with all the unopened beer in the first one? Surely those pictures are cooler if it's of a mate passed out and surrounded by the empties...

2nd and 3rd appear to be much better.
I can't pick out the beer in the first one but the other two are Guiness Draft Stout in a bottle and the 3rd is peroni's can't recognize the first set of bottles.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:54 AM    (permalink
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I can't pick out the beer in the first one but the other two are Guiness Draft Stout in a bottle and the 3rd is peroni's can't recognize the first set of bottles.
Probably doesn't help that there are several types in it. I thought the third one might be Becks, but Peroni's would work also. One of the beers in the first appears to be either Grolsch, Heineken or Carlsberg(could also possibly be Chang but seems unlikely) but there are at least 3 beers in that photo and probably quite a few more. Green, Black and White bottle caps give that much away.

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You can't really put beer around someone like that if they are passed out, it's gotta be someone posing.
Sure you can. Why wouldn't you be able to? If you can pick a mate up, put him in a wheelbarrow and wheel him about a km from his house to leave him in the middle of an oval, I'm pretty sure you can put bottles around them. I would have paid money to be with my mate when he woke up the next morning in the middle of a cricket match in his underwear in a wheelbarrow... alas I was asleep...
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:51 AM    (permalink
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:39 AM    (permalink
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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