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Old 07-09-2007, 06:51 PM    (permalink
cardsalltheway
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Originally Posted by Average OT LB View Post
Id like to know why you hate him, and id also like to ask if you can remember why the NFL was calling for the chargers to draft a QB to replace him. I know quarterbacks can grow and become better players, but so can the others around them. He had the best RB, FB, TE as well as possesion recievers, and the most winningest active head coach. He went from that to a team with a power running game, as well as the most electifying talent in the league. It would be hard to dispute the fact that throwing to bush and pounding the ball in the running game did not directly attribute to his greatness.
I hate him because he went to Purdue and I'm a huge IU football fan.

I don't know what you're getting at with that statement. His run game dropped off a good amount from SD and while his receievers are better, neither Colston nor Horn is a top 10 receiver while Gates was and still is far and away the best receieving tight end in the game. Bush was very good in the pass game, but he didn't do much with the many passes he caught and Brees still had the most yards of any QB in the league. At best, you could argue that the offensive talent is the same as he had in SD, but I don't think it's better in any way, shape or form.
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Old 07-09-2007, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Well I think Brees>Palmer

Anyway this is getting off topic and that it my fault. Back on topic.
You could make a fair argument that Brees is better statistically but with everything that Carson brings to the table he is the better overall QB.
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Old 07-09-2007, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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Carson wins between him and Brees based on phsical attributes, arm and height.
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Old 07-09-2007, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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1. LaDainian Tomlinson
2. Steven Jackson
3. Larry Johnson
4. Frank Gore
5. Clinton Portis
6. Edgerrin James
7. Rudi Johnson
8. Brian Westbrook
9. Shaun Alexander
10. Joseph Addai
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Old 07-09-2007, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway View Post
I hate him because he went to Purdue and I'm a huge IU football fan.

I don't know what you're getting at with that statement. His run game dropped off a good amount from SD and while his receievers are better, neither Colston nor Horn is a top 10 receiver while Gates was and still is far and away the best receieving tight end in the game. Bush was very good in the pass game, but he didn't do much with the many passes he caught and Brees still had the most yards of any QB in the league. At best, you could argue that the offensive talent is the same as he had in SD, but I don't think it's better in any way, shape or form.
I'm sorry if i wasnt clear, but i did not mean to say that New Orleans was better than SD or any of that really. Instead i was saying that they were both top notch offenses and he benefited from them. He was a horrible quarterback early on in his career, and it wasnt until the players around him got very good (like tomlinson and gates) that he got good. I'm just sayin that he could never do what brady does or hasselback does and play with a below average offense and make it above average. Brees is a very nice compliment, not the focus. That is why i did not not have him in the top 5.
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Old 07-09-2007, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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I disagree that he's only a complement on the offense. I think he is far and away the best player on the offense and the team as a whole. Deuce is a good back but he's injuryprone and even when healthy I don't know if he ranks in the top 5. Colston is not even in the top 10 as far as receievers go and Reggie might get all the media attention, but he has been far from great, especially in the run game.
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Old 07-09-2007, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway View Post
I disagree that he's only a complement on the offense. I think he is far and away the best player on the offense and the team as a whole. Deuce is a good back but he's injuryprone and even when healthy I don't know if he ranks in the top 5. Colston is not even in the top 10 as far as receievers go and Reggie might get all the media attention, but he has been far from great, especially in the run game.
yeah but saying hes the best indivisual player doesnt mean hes the centerpiece. Their offense is built around bush, he makes it safe to be a quarterback. Think about the dimensions he brings to the game that allow him to be as good as he is.

What i meant by calling him a compliment is that you cannot take a seperate team and start it with him and still get the same results. he needs a good team to make great, because he cant make a bad team good like the players ahead of him (peyton manning, carson palmer, tom brady donovan mcnabb, hasselback, bulger)
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Old 07-09-2007, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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OK i'm going to gather some facts and then start a Brees vs Palmer thread. Lets stay on topic shall we?

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yeah but saying hes the best indivisual player doesnt mean hes the centerpiece. Their offense is built around bush, he makes it safe to be a quarterback. Think about the dimensions he brings to the game that allow him to be as good as he is.

What i meant by calling him a compliment is that you cannot take a seperate team and start it with him and still get the same results. he needs a good team to make great, because he cant make a bad team good like the players ahead of him (peyton manning, carson palmer, tom brady donovan mcnabb, hasselback, bulger)
BTW, Brees runs that team. We don't make the playoffs without Brees.
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Old 07-09-2007, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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OK i'm going to gather some facts and then start a Brees vs Palmer thread. Lets stay on topic shall we?

BTW, Brees runs that team. We don't make the playoffs without Brees.
First, which topic are we discussing because as far as im concerned i believe we are discussing where Brees belongs in the rankings if youd like me to change that i would be happy to..

As far as brees running the team i believe that is true, for him and many other quarterbacks in the league. It comes with the position.
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Old 07-09-2007, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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First, which topic are we discussing because as far as im concerned i believe we are discussing where Brees belongs in the rankings if youd like me to change that i would be happy to..

As far as brees running the team i believe that is true, for him and many other quarterbacks in the league. It comes with the position.
Just strictly to the positional rankings. I don't want to be the guy who threadjacked this.
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Old 07-09-2007, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Dam8610 View Post
1. LaDainian Tomlinson
2. Steven Jackson
3. Larry Johnson
4. Frank Gore
5. Clinton Portis
6. Edgerrin James
7. Rudi Johnson
8. Brian Westbrook
9. Shaun Alexander
10. Joseph Addai

no willie?
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Old 07-09-2007, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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no willie?
any list with edge james on it sure as hell should have willie parker on it
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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1. Ladanian Tomlinson
2. Larry Johnson
3. Steven Jackson
4. Frank Gore
5. Shaun Alexander
6. Brian Westbrook
7. Willie Parker
8. Rudi Johnson
9. Edgerrin James
10. Clinton Portis
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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QB:
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
4. Carson Palmer
5. Marc Bulger
6. Donovan McNabb
7. Matt Hasselbeck
8. Michael Vick
9. Phillip Rivers
10. Tony Romo

RB
1. LaDainian Tomlinson
2. Larry Johnson
3. Steven Jackson
4. Rudi Johnson
5. Frank Gore
6. Edgerrin James
7. Brian Westbrook
8. Willie Parker
9. Clinton Portis
10. Deuce McAllister

While QB is extremely thin, RB is very deep. There are Shaun Alexander, Laurence Maroney, Joseph Addai, Willis McGahee, Ronnie Brown, Chester Taylor, Cadillac Williams, Thomas Jones, Jamal Lewis, Fred Taylor, Maurice Jones Drew, and Travis Henry still available. All either multi 1,000 yard season guys or potential 1,300 plus yard guys. Thomas Jones and Shaun Alexander probably deserve to be on my list.

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Old 07-09-2007, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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1.lt
2.s jack
3.lj
4.gore
5.fwp
6.westbrook
7.alexander
8.portis
9.rudi johnson
10.addai
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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nobody really feels RBs are all that different, but i bet WR will be different, ill go first.

1. Steve Smith
2. Marvin Harrison
3. Torry Holt
4. Chad Johnson
5. Terrell Owens
6. Reggie Wayne
7. Roy Williams
8. Larry Fitgerald
9. Anquan Boldin
10. Andre Johnson
11. Hines Ward
12. Javon Walker
13. Donald Driver
14. TJ Hoosh
15. Lee Evans
16. Marques Colston
17. Laverneus Coles
18. Randy Moss
19. Bernard Berrian
20. Plaxico Burress
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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QBs:

1-Peyton Manning
2-Tom Brady
3-Carson Palmer
4-Drew Brees
5-Donovan McNabb
6-Marc Bulger
7-Brett Favre
8-Matt Hasselbeck
9-Vince Young
10-Eli Manning (he'll bounce back)

RBs:
1-LaDanian Tomlinson
2-Steven Jackson
3-Larry Johnson
4-Shaun Alexander
5-Frank Gore
6-Clinton Portis
7-Rudi Johnson
8-Edgerrin James
9-Brian Westbrook
10-Willie Parker

WRs:
1-Steve Smith
2-Chad Johnson
3-Torry Holt
4-Marvin Harrison
5-Randy Moss (he'll bounce back too)
6-Terrell Owens
7-Andre Johnson
8-Hines Ward
9-Larry Fitzgerald
10-Roy WIlliams
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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Isn't it top 10?

1. Chad Johnson
2. Steve Smith
3. Marvin Harrison
4. Torry Holt
5. Anquan Boldin
6. Andre Johnson
7. Roy Williams
8. Terrell Owens
9. Javon Walker
10. Reggie Wayne
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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it could be top 10, but then again is that a rule or a suggestion.. my preference is to list those that i can which is 20.
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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Are we moving to WR's?

1.) Steve Smith
2.) Roy Williams
3.) Chad Johnson
4.) Marvin Harrison
5.) Torry Holt
6.) Reggie Wayne
7.) Javon Walker
8.) T.O.
9.) Anquan Boldin
10.) Andre Johnson
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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1. Torry Holt
2. Steve Smith
3. Marvin Harrison
4. Anquan Boldin
5. Chad Johnson
6. Larry Fitzgerald
7. T.O.
8. Roy Williams
9. TJ Hoosh
10. Reggie Wayne
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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WR

1. Steve Smith
2. Marvin Harrison
3. Chad Johnson
4. Tory Holt
5. Roy Williams
6. Anquan Boldin
7. Andre Johnson
8. TO
9. Javon Walker
10. Larry Fitzgerald

Steve Smith #1 because he has potential to take it to the house everytime the ball touches his hands, Harrison #2 for consistancy and Chad #3 because he's the best deep threat in the game. Housh has the best hands, I didn't list him for fear of being a homer.
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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1. Torry Holt
2. Steve Smith
3. Marvin Harrison
4. Anquan Boldin
5. Chad Johnson
6. Larry Fitzgerald
7. T.O.
8. Roy Williams
9. TJ Hoosh
10. Reggie Wayne
How is boldin so high and Fitzgerald ahead of TO roy williams reggie wayne? where is andre johnson? 11th maybe
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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any list with edge james on it sure as hell should have willie parker on it
That really depends, are you talking about their future? because if your talking about there hole career willie won't come close to edge. But if your talking about their future, well then you comparing the Cards to the Steelers (which are run oriented).
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:04 PM    (permalink
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That really depends, are you talking about their future? because if your talking about there hole career willie won't come close to edge. But if your talking about their future, well then you comparing the Cards to the Steelers (which are run oriented).
um willie is only in his third year really

and edge is like goin into his nineth i believe
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