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Old 07-18-2007, 09:52 PM    (permalink
remix 6
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i know who he is. hes top 5 but not 3
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Old 07-18-2007, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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Indianapolis has a very solid D-Line, but when it comes to replacing Cato June and the members they lost in that secondary, I don't know if they added good enough replacements to make up for the loss. Their offense will be great, but I think it'll be more about their pass defnse this year than their run defense that will cause themselves problems.
I dunno about that. I personally believe that Freddy Keiaho will be an upgrade to June, who played terribly against the run last year. They Colts seem to lose players in the secondary every year, and then replace them with young guys that fit their Cover Two scheme. Bob Sanders is a top five safety. Antoine Bethea showed flashes of being a great centerfielder, which allowed Sanders to wreak havock around the line of scrimmage in the playoffs. Marlin Jackson is developing into a very nice player as well.
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Old 07-18-2007, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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The most underrated DT, possibly the most underrated defensive player in the NFL is Kelly Gregg.
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Old 07-18-2007, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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i know who he is. hes top 5 but not 3
You must be joking...
Also, consider that Henderson would very, very likely be a dominating nose in the 3-4.
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Old 07-18-2007, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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The most underrated DT, possibly the most underrated defensive player in the NFL is Kelly Gregg.
Agreed.

If I had to pick just one guy to play tackle right now, it'd be Richard Seymour.
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Old 07-18-2007, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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Agreed.

If I had to pick just one guy to play tackle right now, it'd be Richard Seymour.
Can't argue with that.

God, think back when Georgia had Stroud and Seymour on the same line. And Tennessee also had Henderson and Haynesworth at that time as well.
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Old 07-18-2007, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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Tommie Harris would suddenly make that defense frightening.
That's exactly why I'd take him without a second thought, and why I'll be a very unhappy person if the 49ers are picking in round 1 next year and Glenn Dorsey and/or DeMario Pressley are on the board.

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I rode the Colts defense hard last season, but I have to admit that I may be re-adjusting my position on them. They made a very loud statement with the way they played in the playoffs. After all, they were middle of the pack in 05, when Bob Sanders was healthy all year (absolutely the most important person to their defense). If they could ever get an elite talent at DT, I think it'd make them a consistent top 7 unit. They have pieces in place, they just need a couple more.
Middle of the pack in 2005? Maybe in run defense (where they ranked 17th), but rarely will you have a Tampa 2 team with a great run defense. Other than that, They were a Top 5 defense in both scoring (2nd) and yardage (5th) that year, so, maybe it's just me, but I'd say that defense was just a little bit better than middle of the pack. The 2005 defense showed what a healthy Sanders and an elite DT (Corey Simon that year) can do for this defense.
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Old 07-18-2007, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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You must be joking...
Also, consider that Henderson would very, very likely be a dominating nose in the 3-4.
woooah jeez..im sorry that i think Harris, Williams-Williams are better. like i said..he can be at 4 or 5 but my top 3 are the above in no order
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Old 07-18-2007, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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The best DT in the NFL is Richard Seymour, John Henderson second. That is my take on this.
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Old 07-18-2007, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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IMO, "Best" is too hard to quantify at this position, given the entirely different roles each type of DT is asked to play. Tommie Harris and Jamal Williams are both great at their respective jobs, but I think both would look average in the other's role.
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Old 07-18-2007, 11:48 PM    (permalink
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That's exactly why I'd take him without a second thought, and why I'll be a very unhappy person if the 49ers are picking in round 1 next year and Glenn Dorsey and/or DeMario Pressley are on the board.



Middle of the pack in 2005? Maybe in run defense (where they ranked 17th), but rarely will you have a Tampa 2 team with a great run defense. Other than that, They were a Top 5 defense in both scoring (2nd) and yardage (5th) that year, so, maybe it's just me, but I'd say that defense was just a little bit better than middle of the pack. The 2005 defense showed what a healthy Sanders and an elite DT (Corey Simon that year) can do for this defense.
Yup. Run defense is what I meant.
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Old 07-18-2007, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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IMO, "Best" is too hard to quantify at this position, given the entirely different roles each type of DT is asked to play. Tommie Harris and Jamal Williams are both great at their respective jobs, but I think both would look average in the other's role.
That's why I take Richard Seymour and John Henderson. Both have the ability to play all across D-Line formations; vis a vis 1-tech, 3-tech, 5-tech.
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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tommie harris is definitly quickest and fastest.

its between henderson, stroud, and seymore. its real close for me
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:09 AM    (permalink
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i know who he is. hes top 5 but not 3
John Henderson IMO is far better than any DT in this game aside from Jamal Williams and Tommie Harris. To me, it goes those 3 guys and then everyone else is a major notch below and that next notch down consists of guys like Kevin Williams, Marcus Stroud and Casey Hampton. And I dont know why Richard Seymour keeps getting brought up. Yes, he can play DT and hes a damn good one when he plays the position, but thats not the position he plays. When we talk about the best WRs should we bring up Reggie Bush b/c we think he could be an all-pro WR?
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:18 AM    (permalink
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A 3-4 DE is typically a tall, long, big 4-3 DT. It's one of my pet peeves that people don't classify players like Seymour, Castillo, etc, who all played 4-3 in college at DT, and play 4-3 DT on passing downs, are penalized because they play in an atypical scheme.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:10 AM    (permalink
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A 3-4 DE is typically a tall, long, big 4-3 DT. It's one of my pet peeves that people don't classify players like Seymour, Castillo, etc, who all played 4-3 in college at DT, and play 4-3 DT on passing downs, are penalized because they play in an atypical scheme.
theyre not penalized, Im just not gonna include them in the discussion for best DT when thats not the position they play. Seymour has played some DT in the pros and he was great at it and Castillo Im sure would be a great DT, but Im not gonna include them in the discussion for best DT when they dont play that position. I was drawing the comparison to Reggie Bush....I expect Reggie could be an all-pro wideout if that was his position, but his position is running back. When someone tells me to talk about the best wideout in the game, Im not gonna bring up Reggie Bush, just because he has the skills of a great wideout. Seymour and Castillo in my book are elite 3-4 DEs, yes its a category of its own because it is a different position from a cover 2 DE or a 4-3 DT, but I dont see it as a penalization to those players, I just think when were talking about who is the best player at a certain position we stick to players who play that position every sunday
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:12 AM    (permalink
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for a 3-4 which i would run if i was a coach it would be a close race between jamaal williams,casey hampton,john henderson,and stroud
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:39 AM    (permalink
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I would narrow it down to just Jamal and Casey because Marcus and John havent had expierence in a 3-4 even though they would probably do good in it.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:52 AM    (permalink
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Yup. Run defense is what I meant.
Ah, well then, yes I'd agree, but really mediocre run defense is all the unit needs to be great overall.

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That's why I take Richard Seymour and John Henderson. Both have the ability to play all across D-Line formations; vis a vis 1-tech, 3-tech, 5-tech.
I have a hard time believing Seymour could play 5-tech very well or Henderson could play 1-tech very well.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:57 AM    (permalink
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theyre not penalized, Im just not gonna include them in the discussion for best DT when thats not the position they play. Seymour has played some DT in the pros and he was great at it and Castillo Im sure would be a great DT, but Im not gonna include them in the discussion for best DT when they dont play that position. I was drawing the comparison to Reggie Bush....I expect Reggie could be an all-pro wideout if that was his position, but his position is running back. When someone tells me to talk about the best wideout in the game, Im not gonna bring up Reggie Bush, just because he has the skills of a great wideout. Seymour and Castillo in my book are elite 3-4 DEs, yes its a category of its own because it is a different position from a cover 2 DE or a 4-3 DT, but I dont see it as a penalization to those players, I just think when were talking about who is the best player at a certain position we stick to players who play that position every sunday
If you want to get technical we shouldn't compare 3-4 Nose Tackles like Jamal Williams to 4-3 Under Tackles like Tommie Harris, Kevin Williams. If you are going to lump all interior D-Lineman together, you need to include players like Seymour and Castillo who play on the interior D-Line.

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I have a hard time believing Seymour could play 5-tech very well or Henderson could play 1-tech very well.
The 3-4 DE is put at 5-tech, or on the Tackle, so I don't understand how you could say that about Seymour.

As for Henderson, in certain packages he could move to the 1-tech, over the pivot, in a pinch. I'm not talking about full time; rather for versatility's sake.
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Old 07-19-2007, 02:02 AM    (permalink
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If you want to get technical we should vote on who is the best 3-tech. Who is the best 3-4 NT. If you are going to lump all interior D-Lineman together, you need to include players like Seymour.



The 3-4 DE is put at 5-tech, or on the Tackle, so I don't understand how you could say that about Seymour.

As for Henderson, in certain packages he could move to the 1-tech, over the pivot, in a pinch. I'm not talking about full time; rather for versatility's sake.
Oops, I meant 3-Tech for Seymour. Make a little more sense now?
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Old 07-19-2007, 03:31 AM    (permalink
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I'd take Seymour or Harris... maybe K.Williams.
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Old 07-19-2007, 03:36 AM    (permalink
raiderfan_89
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Warren Sapp.
10 Sacks last season.
He will get 17 this season.
;D
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Old 07-19-2007, 04:45 AM    (permalink
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I think the NFC Central, used to saying NL, is pretty much tops at DT.
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Old 07-19-2007, 04:50 AM    (permalink
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I personally like the penetration and control within the pocket that Tommie Harris brings to a team. Especially a team running a cover 2 defense. But I wouldn't say no to Stroud either.
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