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Old 07-18-2007, 11:56 PM    (permalink
Geo
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Originally Posted by Ward View Post
Any Seattle fans want to weigh in on Marcus Tubbs' progress?
The Seahawks did well to draft a two-gap type tackle in Tubbs in 04 (Tim Ruskell came in 2005 incidentally), despite a current defense that heavily incorporates speed and one-gap discipline. It's not a coincidence that when Tubbs went down to season-ending injury in 2006, the Seahawks run defense never fully recovered.

I found this in a Seahawks article, and it's pretty telling:

Quote:
The Seahawks ranked 22nd in the league, giving up 126.8 rushing yards per game. In five games with the 6-foot-3, 320-pound Tubbs, they allowed just 82 yards per contest; in 13 games without Tubbs, including playoffs, opponents averaged 137.6 rushing yards. That's a difference of 55 yards per game, folks.
In another Seahawks article:

Quote:
The Hawks allowed 17 carries of 20-plus yards last season, tied with St. Louis for second-most in the league.

...

The Hawks also need to get Marcus Tubbs healthy. He is looking trim by 330-pound DT standards, and the team says he's on pace to return from knee surgery by training camp. Since drafting Tubbs in 2004, the Seahawks have allowed 42 fewer rushing yards per game and 0.99 fewer yards per carry when he plays. He did not play against the 49ers last season.
We'll see how Tubbs fares in his recovery from microfracture knee surgery. The Seahawks drafting Brandon Mebane in the 07 Draft was an excellent move imo, to provide depth.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:10 AM    (permalink
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hey, the great jonathan vilma was drafted in this draft, i like it

the U team from 2003 was my favorite of all time, and this draft spelled the end of it
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You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.
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Old 07-19-2007, 02:07 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BlindSite View Post
There's far too much hate for Losman, he's still young, give him some time to develop. Last year he had 62% completion percentage and over 3000 yards. Add in 140 rushing yards and he's doing pretty well for someone who's only started something like 30 games.
Losman is quite possibly the most underrated young QB in the game.

Dude gets no credit for having a very solid season last year.
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Old 07-19-2007, 02:17 AM    (permalink
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Which was his first full season as a starter.

In 2004, not only was he behind Drew Bledsoe on the depth chart, but he suffered a broken leg. In 2005, Mike Mularkey played Musical Chairs: The QB Edition all season long with Losman and Kelly Holcomb, stunting a young quarterback's development in what was a bad offense anyways.

Thankfully, Dick Jauron and Steve Fairchild took over as the head coach and the offensive coordinator, respectively, in 2006, and Bills GM Marv Levy has made a concerted effort to surround Losman with talent - most notably in the offensive line (Derrick Dockery, Langston Walker) and at runningback (Marshawn Lynch) this off-season.
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Old 07-19-2007, 02:39 AM    (permalink
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hmmm what did my team pick up?

Oh right... reciever, why was I wondering again?

Roy Williams HEY! that guy doesn't suck! Hey everyone, the Lions selected somebody who doesn't suck!!!!

oh crap they just HAD to pick KJ, probably in shock when they found out Roy Williams doesn't suck.
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Old 07-19-2007, 03:33 AM    (permalink
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I'm a big fan of the Eagles pick in that draft. Andrews is a STUD. I know it's a bust thread but I had to give the Big Kid some props.
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Old 07-19-2007, 03:46 AM    (permalink
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Michael Clayton as a disappointment is fair, but if he has another sub 500 yard season then he pretty much has to be considered a bust based on his draft position.
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Old 07-19-2007, 08:54 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JK17 View Post
A team exercising an extension has no real bearing over whether he's a bust, but as far as on the field production is concerned, up until now at least, unless he shows something more, he's a bust.
Well we must have different standards for calling a player a bust. He sure as heck hasn't lived up to expectations, but calling him a bust at this point is a bit overboard. It's not like he's been doing horrible. He had 24 TDs last year with only 2 viable WR targets, and then only 1 when the other got injured. You can't put everything on Eli's shoulders. He's a bit inaccurate at times, but much of that can be accredited to Burress running poor routes. Eli started out hot until his most reliable WR went down, and other injuries set in. You can't have Tim Carter and David Tyree as your #2 and #3 recievers and expect Eli to do well. It's a team game, Eli is only human.

So would you consider David Carr a bust? That's not a fair assesment of a player considering his circumstances.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:01 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ward View Post
Any Seattle fans want to weigh in on Marcus Tubbs' progress?

Tubbs is an excellent DT....

When he is healthy. The Seahawks defense completely fell apart last year when he went on IR, he is dthe most important player on the Hawks defense, followed by Tatupu.


Hopefully they won't be as dependant on him with Mebane here.
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Old 07-19-2007, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by neko4 View Post
Which 2004 Draft Busts are most likely to make a comeback
1st Round:
1. San Diego - Eli Manning, QB Mississippi
*Traded to the New York Giants for Philip Rivers and the Giants third-round pick this year and their first and fifth round picks in the 2005 draft.

2. Oakland - Robert Gallery, OT Iowa
3. Arizona - Larry Fitgerald, WR Pittsburgh
4. NY Giants - Philip Rivers, QB North Carolina State
Traded, along with their third-round pick this year and their first and fifth round picks in the 2005 draft, to San Diego for Eli Manning.

5. Washington - Sean Taylor, S Miami (Fla)
6. Cleveland ( from Detroit) - Kellen Winslow Jr, TE Miami (Fla)
7. Detroit (from Cleveland) - Roy Williams, WR Texas
8. Atlanta - DeAngelo Hall, CB Virginia Tech
9. Jacksonville - Reggie Williams, WR Washington
10. Houston - Dunta Robinson, CB South Carolina
11. Pittsburgh - Ben Roethlisberger, QB Miami (Ohio)
12. NY Jets - Jonathan Vilma, LB Miami (Fla)
13. Buffalo - Lee Evans, WR Wisconsin
14. Chicago - Tommie Harris, DT Oklahoma
15. Tampa Bay - Michael Clayton, WR LSU
16. Philadelphia (from San Francisco) - Shawn Andrews, OT Arkansas
17. Denver (from Cincinnati) - D.J. Williams, OLB Miami (Fla)
18. New Orleans - Will Smith, DE Ohio State
19. Miami (from Minnesota) - Vernon Carey, G Miami (Fla)
20. Minnesota (from Miami) - Kenechi Udeze, DE USC
21. New England (from Bal) - Vince Wilfork, DT Miami (Fla)
22. Buffalo (from Dallas) - J.P. Losman, QB Tulane
23. Seattle - Marcus Tubbs, DT Texas
24. St. Louis (from Denver thru Cincinnati) - Steven Jackson, RB Oregon State
25. Green Bay - Ahmad Carroll, CB Arkansas
26. Cincinnati (from St. Louis) - Chris Perry, RB Michigan
27. Houston (from Tennessee) - Jason Babin, DE Western Michigan
28. Carolina (from Philadelphia thru San Francisco) - Chris Gamble, CB Ohio State
29. Atlanta (from Indianapolis) - Michael Jenkins, WR Ohio State
30. Detroit (from Kansas City) - Kevin Jones, RB Virginia Tech
31. San Francisco (from Carolina) - Rashaun Woods, WR Oklahoma State
32. New England - Ben Watson, TE Georgia


Im expecting Gallery to make a turn around but guys like Rashaun Woods and Ahmad Carroll seem beyond a comeback
I recall this being a painful draft. Tommie Harris went right before the Bucs picked, after that I thought Steven Jackson was a lock. Imagine my surprise.

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Old 07-19-2007, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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Steven Jackson St. Louis Rams :D
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Old 07-19-2007, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Man_Of_Steel View Post
Buffalo has an explosive offense. Clayton even said a litlle while back that it reminded him of the Rams greatest show on turf. Now I wouldnt go that far at all but they are good.

RB- Lynch, WR- Evans/Parrish TE- Royal/Everett should get the #1 spot this season. The problem has always been the o-line but that looks to be rectified quite abit this year.

Buffalo's young D will be the teller of their success this year, damn they got some talented young safeties.
The receiving options worry me just a bit. Royal isn't much of a recevier, Everett has one career reception, and it's hard to know what to expect from Roscoe and how his role will be increased this year. Reed and Price... eh. We're moving in the right direction though and Fairchild has really impressed me. I expect an improved running game and overall offense, led my none other than Mr. John Paul Losman
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Old 07-19-2007, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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Well we must have different standards for calling a player a bust. He sure as heck hasn't lived up to expectations, but calling him a bust at this point is a bit overboard. It's not like he's been doing horrible. He had 24 TDs last year with only 2 viable WR targets, and then only 1 when the other got injured. You can't put everything on Eli's shoulders. He's a bit inaccurate at times, but much of that can be accredited to Burress running poor routes. Eli started out hot until his most reliable WR went down, and other injuries set in. You can't have Tim Carter and David Tyree as your #2 and #3 recievers and expect Eli to do well. It's a team game, Eli is only human.

So would you consider David Carr a bust? That's not a fair assesment of a player considering his circumstances.
... Ben Managed wiht Nate Washington, Holmes, Sean Morey and Walter Young...
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Old 07-19-2007, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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Well we must have different standards for calling a player a bust. He sure as heck hasn't lived up to expectations, but calling him a bust at this point is a bit overboard. It's not like he's been doing horrible. He had 24 TDs last year with only 2 viable WR targets, and then only 1 when the other got injured. You can't put everything on Eli's shoulders. He's a bit inaccurate at times, but much of that can be accredited to Burress running poor routes. Eli started out hot until his most reliable WR went down, and other injuries set in. You can't have Tim Carter and David Tyree as your #2 and #3 recievers and expect Eli to do well. It's a team game, Eli is only human.

So would you consider David Carr a bust? That's not a fair assesment of a player considering his circumstances.
David Carr had no Offensive Line, on an expansion team. He didn't have a Tiki Barber, Plaxico Burress or anything even resembling a blocking OL. Hell Luke Pettigout and Diehl would have looked like All-Pro's with what Carr had to work with.
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Old 07-19-2007, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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... Ben Managed wiht Nate Washington, Holmes, Sean Morey and Walter Young...
Don't give me the Big Ben line. Ben had a superb defense a superb offensive line and a superb running back. Great, he completed 14 of the 20 passes he threw every game.

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David Carr had no Offensive Line, on an expansion team. He didn't have a Tiki Barber, Plaxico Burress or anything even resembling a blocking OL. Hell Luke Pettigout and Diehl would have looked like All-Pro's with what Carr had to work with.
Tiki Barber was a great asset to Eli, no question about it. Plaxico Burress can make the big play, but he's not exactly a reliable reciever. Some of those passes on which Eli looked way off, were Plax running a bad route. Eli had great chemistry with Toomer, who was very reliable and a good route runner. It's not just a coincidence that Eli started playing poorly when his recievers were Plax, Tim Carter and David Tyree. Luke Petitgout was infamous for killing drives with his penalties; He was a decent blocker I must say.

My point in referancing Carr was that it's a team sport. Is it just a coincidence that Rivers and Ben had great seasons with teams that made it deep into the playoffs? It's a team game and you have to look at the circumstances. We had starters injuried on defense, which forced Eli to play for behind a lot. He lost his #2 WR on a team that had no WR depth and he lost his starting LT. Can you honestly put all the blame on his shoulders? Stick Eli or Carr on the Chargers and they'll do just as good as Rivers. Stick Rivers on a team riddled with injuries, and he'll do no better than Eli.
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Old 07-19-2007, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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He lost his #2 WR on a team that had no WR depth and he lost his starting LT. Can you honestly put all the blame on his shoulders?
Donovan McNabb has done superbly for years with such stalwarts as Freddie Mitchell, James Thrash, Todd Pinkston and Greg Lewis as some of his wideouts. You can still make it happen despite crappy WR. Maybe if Eli would remember he's got a sick TE to work with and dump it off to him every now and then that would be a good starting point. Bottom line is, other guys have done a lot more with less than Eli has. Tom Brady anyone? I'm pretty sure I'd take Plaxico and whoever your #2 was last year over Jabar Gaffney and Reche Caldwell, wouldn't you?
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Old 07-19-2007, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller View Post
... Ben Managed wiht Nate Washington, Holmes, Sean Morey and Walter Young...
Brady managed with Caldwell, Troy brown and half of Gaffney and half of Gabriel.. with no pro bowl RBs

what are u trying to say?

It doesnt matter who your WRs are..if you a really good QB..you'll get it done.
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Old 07-19-2007, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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So far Ahmad Carroll, Rashaun Woods and Robert Gallery. Althought Gallery can still become a pretty good OT.
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Old 07-19-2007, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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Donovan McNabb has done superbly for years with such stalwarts as Freddie Mitchell, James Thrash, Todd Pinkston and Greg Lewis as some of his wideouts. You can still make it happen despite crappy WR. Maybe if Eli would remember he's got a sick TE to work with and dump it off to him every now and then that would be a good starting point. Bottom line is, other guys have done a lot more with less than Eli has. Tom Brady anyone? I'm pretty sure I'd take Plaxico and whoever your #2 was last year over Jabar Gaffney and Reche Caldwell, wouldn't you?
Those are two different offensive systems. The Eagles play in a system in which you put 4 recievers onto the field, make them run, and hopefully McNabb finds an open one. The Giants offensive coordinator was a nincompoop and was replaced before the season even ended for a reason. He didn't utilize Shockey properly, he didn't utilize Eli or the WRs properly. He managed to use Tiki well, but that's all. So if you throw in the Patriot's offensive playcaller along with those two guys, i'd make the trade. I'm personally not that high on Plaxico Burress and Tim Carter is already gone.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:08 PM    (permalink
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The receiving options worry me just a bit. Royal isn't much of a recevier, Everett has one career reception, and it's hard to know what to expect from Roscoe and how his role will be increased this year. Reed and Price... eh. We're moving in the right direction though and Fairchild has really impressed me. I expect an improved running game and overall offense, led my none other than Mr. John Paul Losman
This is Everett's breakout year.

Him and Dwayne Wright are two underrated guys who will make a big impact.
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by remix 6 View Post
It doesnt matter who your WRs are..if you have a system tailored to your strengths..you'll get it done.
Fixed.

....
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<Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
<Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:45 PM    (permalink
Mr. Stiller
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Brady managed with Caldwell, Troy brown and half of Gaffney and half of Gabriel.. with no pro bowl RBs

what are u trying to say?

It doesnt matter who your WRs are..if you a really good QB..you'll get it done.
You said Exactly what I was trying to say.
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:26 PM    (permalink
volman88
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Rashaun woods all the way
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:29 PM    (permalink
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Rashaun woods all the way
I agree, i used him in Madden the other day and i could tell what is gonna happen this year
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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We need to get rid of Kenechi Udeze. He is not a Cover-2 defensive end.
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