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Old 07-20-2007, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ricky bobby View Post
Those are two different offensive systems. The Eagles play in a system in which you put 4 recievers onto the field, make them run, and hopefully McNabb finds an open one. The Giants offensive coordinator was a nincompoop and was replaced before the season even ended for a reason. He didn't utilize Shockey properly, he didn't utilize Eli or the WRs properly. He managed to use Tiki well, but that's all. So if you throw in the Patriot's offensive playcaller along with those two guys, i'd make the trade. I'm personally not that high on Plaxico Burress and Tim Carter is already gone.
so in other words, everyone else takes the blame except Eli?


what happens if they dont make the playoffs this year? You cant keep throwing injuries out there like every team doesnt get the same marquee injuries year in and out, you deal with it, Im sure Tiki Barber, Shockey, and Burress were plenty to make amends with...
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 07-20-2007, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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so in other words, everyone else takes the blame except Eli?


what happens if they dont make the playoffs this year? You cant keep throwing injuries out there like every team doesnt get the same marquee injuries year in and out, you deal with it, Im sure Tiki Barber, Shockey, and Burress were plenty to make amends with...
You can't throw McNabb and Brady out and compare them to Eli. Both of those guys are Veteran QBs with absolute masterminds for coaches.

You don't follow the Giants, you didn't see what kind of crap we had starting on defense, and you didn't see the idiot who was calling the plays.
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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carroll and his penalties
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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We need to get rid of Kenechi Udeze. He is not a Cover-2 defensive end.
He's not an NFL defensive end.
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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He's not an NFL defensive end.
A case where a player who doesn't really fit in an NFL position. Udeze was one of those dreaded 'tweeners.'
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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Sorry, we don't run a 3-4. I don't see the need for a DE-DT tweener. Although I'm sure Udeze would suck even if he was on the Chargers.
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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so in other words, everyone else takes the blame except Eli?


what happens if they dont make the playoffs this year? You cant keep throwing injuries out there like every team doesnt get the same marquee injuries year in and out, you deal with it, Im sure Tiki Barber, Shockey, and Burress were plenty to make amends with...
I think it's a culmination of things. Idiot OC, ELI, losing your LT, and then losing your security blanket in Amani Toomer. And still despite all that managed to put up nearly the same stats. He should be fine, we fired our OC, put a guy who has actually had experience as an OC there, got a new qb coach, and been working things out. But he does need to play better, but I def. wouldnt call him a bust or anything near one.
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Old 07-20-2007, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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Gallery will probably bounce back and become a solid player, but never an outstanding one like he was billed to be. Eli will be fine, he's not a bust yet, he's a solid QB but not a start yet like he's suppposed to be. He's not really done any worse than Rivers (meltdown at end of 06 season) or Roethlisberger (horrible 06), but obviously hasn't won games like those two.

As for Losman and Jenkins, neither is a bust and to tell the truth both of those guys have shown a lot of promise and could be really good if given better situations. I think Losman will eventually become a good player. Jenkins has a crappy QB who throws too hard on short patterns and is extremely inaccurate on midrange throws, so give him a break. Mike Clayton is a mystery...great rookie year and 2 really sorry years afterwards. Reggie Williams though will never be better than a #2 WR in the NFL.
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Old 07-20-2007, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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He's not an NFL defensive end.
Who would've thought that Udeze was the 2nd best DE they drafted that year? I think they could be fine this year with Scott and James starting and Udeze playing sparingly.
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Old 07-20-2007, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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Who would've thought that Udeze was the 2nd best DE they drafted that year? I think they could be fine this year with Scott and James starting and Udeze playing sparingly.
I don't want Scott starting. He is not a Cover 2 end, either. Too slow. I'd rather have James and Ray Edwards starting.
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Old 07-20-2007, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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If you broaden the definition of bust beyond simply "a crappy player," I would say Tank Johnson for the Bears. His legal troubles have landed him a suspension for 8 games (6 with good behavior) and now, they've landed him in the unemployment line.
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Old 07-20-2007, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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I'm sure Udeze would suck even if he was on the Chargers.
That there's sig material. Classic.
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Old 07-20-2007, 11:48 PM    (permalink
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That there's sig material. Classic.
It's the truth. I feel honored.
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Old 07-20-2007, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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Udeze works as a base defensive end imo, it's not as though the team can't substitute a quicker/better pass-rusher for him in passing situations and keep a strong rotation to last the whole game.

I also wonder if he won't be slightly improved now that he's further removed from his late 2005 microfracture knee surgery.
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Old 07-20-2007, 11:59 PM    (permalink
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He just doesn't fit in our system, though. Udeze would get to the QB last year, but it would be 2 second after the QB released the ball.
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Old 07-21-2007, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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http://www.startribune.com/510/story/1218672.html

Quote:
Staying put

Frazier said one of his goals this season will be keeping Kenechi Udeze at left end. Udeze shifted to the right side after Erasmus James suffered a season-ending knee injury in last year's second game. Udeze didn't have a sack all season.

"That's where he feels most comfortable at," Frazier said of Udeze. "We need to let him be where he feels confident and give him the best chance to be successful. We're committed to doing that, and hopefully we'll get the results out of it that we're looking for."

James is expected back for training camp, but it's uncertain how much of a workload he will be able to handle early in the season.
I hadn't realized the Vikings moved Udeze to RDE, after James tore his ACL - no wonder the move was unsuccessful. Good thing Frazier knows his defense and plans to keep Udeze at LDE.
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Old 07-21-2007, 12:43 AM    (permalink
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http://www.startribune.com/510/story/1218672.html


I hadn't realized the Vikings moved Udeze to RDE, after James tore his ACL - no wonder the move was unsuccessful. Good thing Frazier knows his defense and plans to keep Udeze at LDE.
I don't know. I'm still skeptical. Moving him to LE isn't going to give him any more quickness or speed. Scott didn't have any luck at that spot.
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Old 07-21-2007, 06:54 AM    (permalink
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so in other words, everyone else takes the blame except Eli?


what happens if they dont make the playoffs this year? You cant keep throwing injuries out there like every team doesnt get the same marquee injuries year in and out, you deal with it, Im sure Tiki Barber, Shockey, and Burress were plenty to make amends with...

I agree, but i understand the opposing argument: Eli didnt have a WR on the field that he could trust they knew where to be. In a way, its loosely like what Vick has -- had, in Atlanta. It's not like crumpler is some kind of superior athlete that hes the only one capable of catching a pass there, but more that he was the only one vick trusted. Everyone knows that in the NFL trust is key so when toomer goes down thats big. But heres why i disagree. You know when you're going through teams in madden, and you don't pick certain teams cause they dont have a good offense? Well the giants were never one of those teams. Great running back, solid qb, great tight end, and play making wide reciever. There just simply is no excuse for eli manning. I find it ridiculous that Plaxico Burress's route running and things of that nature were such a problem that it made Eli look like a bust. What was wrong with Shockey? was he partying too hard? the way i see it, Eli just doesnt trust himself to make the throws in pressure situations. In the NFL hte decision to throw the football is the must rushed and complicated thing in the sport. Eli has all the tools, but is standing too deep in the shadow of a certain relative of his, to have any confidence. I'm sure playing in New York with the papers in his face every morning doesnt help either..

I do not feel bad for him. He could have had San Diego, he chose misery.
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Old 07-21-2007, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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Gallery will probably bounce back and become a solid player, but never an outstanding one like he was billed to be. Eli will be fine, he's not a bust yet, he's a solid QB but not a start yet like he's suppposed to be. He's not really done any worse than Rivers (meltdown at end of 06 season) or Roethlisberger (horrible 06), but obviously hasn't won games like those two.
OK, this Rivers meltdown stuff is getting out of hand. I'm going to do an Eli-homer impression for a minute;

He had 2 bad games, and one iffy game, all season. Coincidentally, they came when McCardell lost all his playing time, Floyd went on IR, and Parker was battling injuries. We had to sign Az Hakim off the street! Raiders and Seahawks defense are not bad at all. The Chiefs played a great game. It's the NFL, you can't be spectacular every week. As is, he posted a 90 plus rating in his first season as a starter.

We still won all those games, including a killer game winner against Seattle.

The "meltdown" nonsense is being blown completely out of proportion.
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Old 07-21-2007, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Gallery will probably bounce back and become a solid player, but never an outstanding one like he was billed to be. Eli will be fine, he's not a bust yet, he's a solid QB but not a start yet like he's suppposed to be. He's not really done any worse than Rivers (meltdown at end of 06 season) or Roethlisberger (horrible 06), but obviously hasn't won games like those two.
Ben had a Horrible 06 but he had an amazing 04/05.. Eli has yet to live up anywhere NEAR Ben or Rivers. They both had solid seasons. Eli has yet to have one.

I'm not going to sit here and bash Eli the whole time. But Ben and Rivers are head/shoulders above him right now. You have to compare his best stats to Ben and Rivers' worst.

Ben's 06 season, and Rivers December QB Rating drop. Eli hasn't been consistent or played near the level that Either has.

And to do my rendition of a Eli-Homer impression:

Ben lost Hartings, Simmons, Starks the entire C-RT of his line this past season. Add that to the only veterans at WR in Ward/Wilson were out. We had Sean Morey and Walter Young as our #3/#4. 3 UDFA's in our starting 4 wideouts. His OL was playing so bad that he couldn't ever use his TE because he had to block. Add to the fact he nearly died in the pre-season and still played. As well as the killer hit from Atlanta (Ironically the one time it's wasn't roughing the passer)



And not to mention, his last 8 games he went 6-2.. 2167yds passing(8 games) 85.1 QB Rating..

Eli was sacked 25 times. Yea, his OL was bad.

Ben was sacked 46 times.. Including a 9-sack game. Yea, you Giants fans have it so, rough.


Question is. How come Ben and Rivers get all the blame for their mishaps, yet Eli gets to point the finger.. Come on now, he's not Peyton.
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Old 07-21-2007, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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OK, this Rivers meltdown stuff is getting out of hand. I'm going to do an Eli-homer impression for a minute;

He had 2 bad games, and one iffy game, all season. Coincidentally, they came when McCardell lost all his playing time, Floyd went on IR, and Parker was battling injuries. We had to sign Az Hakim off the street! Raiders and Seahawks defense are not bad at all. The Chiefs played a great game. It's the NFL, you can't be spectacular every week. As is, he posted a 90 plus rating in his first season as a starter.

We still won all those games, including a killer game winner against Seattle.

The "meltdown" nonsense is being blown completely out of proportion.
You get to use the injury card?

Eli was missing his LT, most reliable WR for the second half of the season and his #3 WR for alomst the entire year.

ironic
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These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
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Old 07-21-2007, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Number 10 View Post
You get to use the injury card?

Eli was missing his LT, most reliable WR for the second half of the season and his #3 WR for alomst the entire year.

ironic
He was doing an impression of Ricky Bobby. Everytime Eli has a bad game, it's due to some injury, or the fact he lost people around him...

So did every QB. But If we throw out the injury card for our QB's this is what we get.
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Old 07-21-2007, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Number 10 View Post
You get to use the injury card?

Eli was missing his LT, most reliable WR for the second half of the season and his #3 WR for alomst the entire year.

ironic
You only think it's ironic because you decided not to read the part where I distinctly announced I was making fun of how Giants fans defend Eli. By playing the injury card. Like you just did.


Nothing is ever Eli's fault, apparently, and yet Rivers had a meltdown. Come on now.
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Old 07-21-2007, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ChargerCohen View Post
You only think it's ironic because you decided not to read the part where I distinctly announced I was making fun of how Giants fans defend Eli. By playing the injury card. Like you just did.


Nothing is ever Eli's fault, apparently, and yet Rivers had a meltdown. Come on now.
If you don't think Rivers had a much easier situation to deal with last year, you're a fool.
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Old 07-21-2007, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Number 10 View Post
If you don't think Rivers had a much easier situation to deal with last year, you're a fool.
You're a fool. Don't you know that Rivers hoisted the team on his shoulders and carried them to the AFC championship game?

That was sarcasm btw.
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