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Old 07-21-2007, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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You only think it's ironic because you decided not to read the part where I distinctly announced I was making fun of how Giants fans defend Eli. By playing the injury card. Like you just did.


Nothing is ever Eli's fault, apparently, and yet Rivers had a meltdown. Come on now.

You must be reading posts from people on the end of the spectrum that will defend him now matter what. For instance, on the Falcons board, there are fans who love him no matter what happens.

The fact remains things are his fault, but he has done good things, and had two above avg seasons for us. He has had bad games, and has had good games, he just needs to put it together, and hopefully our offensive guys can stay healthy.

But i think giants fans have to defend Eli, because our media blows things out of proportion, and the fact that we have to listen to the national media couple days later repeat the same stuff. While Eli has to play better, he hasnt done as bad as the media would like you to believe.
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Old 07-21-2007, 06:47 PM    (permalink
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If you don't think Rivers had a much easier situation to deal with last year, you're a fool.
Wow you're right. I guess that means Eli is a moron who should have played for the team that drafted him instead of thinking he was too good for the system.

I can't believe there are still Eli defenders. Thank god Tiki took the whole offense with him and now the runt can be exposed.
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Old 07-21-2007, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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Wow you're right. I guess that means Eli is a moron who should have played for the team that drafted him instead of thinking he was too good for the system.

I can't believe there are still Eli defenders. Thank god Tiki took the whole offense with him and now the runt can be exposed.
Pffffffffffffffffft yeah right. If you listened to all the Giants homers on here (cough Ricky Bobby) you would know that Brandon Jacobs is Emmitt Smith reincarnated. ;)
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Old 07-21-2007, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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Wow you're right. I guess that means Eli is a moron who should have played for the team that drafted him instead of thinking he was too good for the system.

I can't believe there are still Eli defenders. Thank god Tiki took the whole offense with him and now the runt can be exposed.
Rivers gets the nod on O-line, RB, TE, coaching, defense, and scheme when comparing the situations Eli and Rivers are in.

Eli had a better group of WRs but his most reliable WR went down 9 games into the season, so the margin there was minimal.

Please tell me if you disagree with any of that.
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Old 07-21-2007, 07:07 PM    (permalink
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Rivers gets the nod on O-line, RB, TE, coaching, defense, and scheme when comparing the situations Eli and Rivers are in.

Eli had a better group of WRs but his most reliable WR went down 9 games into the season, so the margin there was minimal.

Please tell me if you disagree with any of that.
Actually I'd take Vincent Jackson, Eric Parker, Malcolm Floyd and Keenan McCardell over Plaxico, too. They're all hard workers.

But anyone who watches football could tell that Rivers is the better QB as well. Forget all the stats; do you want the guy firing up his teammates, or a guy who has officially been scolded by management for moping during games?

Your argument to convince me that the Chargers are a better team than the Giants has succeeded admirably. You win. but not really.
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Old 07-21-2007, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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Not to me. He improved the second half last year and I think he needs one more year to see if he's a bust or not.

I forgot about this thread until now, but I said Losman, becuase he asked which one will make an improvement.
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Old 07-21-2007, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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Actually I'd take Vincent Jackson, Eric Parker, Malcolm Floyd and Keenan McCardell over Plaxico, too. They're all hard workers.

But anyone who watches football could tell that Rivers is the better QB as well. Forget all the stats; do you want the guy firing up his teammates, or a guy who has officially been scolded by management for moping during games?

Your argument to convince me that the Chargers are a better team than the Giants has succeeded admirably. You win. but not really.
I agree with the Rivers being a superior QB. He has better awareness of what the hell is going on, makes better reads and plays much smarter than Manning. For Manning, if his first WR isn't open, he looks clueless.
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Old 07-21-2007, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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Actually I'd take Vincent Jackson, Eric Parker, Malcolm Floyd and Keenan McCardell over Plaxico, too. They're all hard workers.

But anyone who watches football could tell that Rivers is the better QB as well. Forget all the stats; do you want the guy firing up his teammates, or a guy who has officially been scolded by management for moping during games?

Your argument to convince me that the Chargers are a better team than the Giants has succeeded admirably. You win. but not really.
Alright we'll keep that whole Plaxico vs. Who? argument out of the discussion despite it simply making you look even more foolish.

Scolded by management? Are you joking? See, when you blow things out of proportion/exaggerate like that, it just makes you look like you don't know what you are talking about and you need to do that to make your case look respectable. And yes, I would rather have a calm demeanor at QB that an over-dramatic QB who threw his helmet towards the sideline while walking off the field frustrated. Back in my days of playing, that wouldn't "fire me up". And to say that Eli being quiet and reserved is what makes him a bad QB is pretty weak when you look at a certain 49ers QB who had a decent career despite being very quiet.

And yes, my case for Rivers being in a much easier position to succeed has completely trampled any attempt at a rebuttle, thank you.
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Old 07-21-2007, 07:19 PM    (permalink
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Alright we'll keep that whole Plaxico vs. Who? argument out of the discussion despite it simply making you look even more foolish.

Scolded by management? Are you joking? See, when you blow things out of proportion/exaggerate like that, it just makes you look like you don't know what you are talking about and you need to do that to make your case look respectable. And yes, I would rather have a calm demeanor at QB that an over-dramatic QB who threw his helmet towards the sideline while walking off the field frustrated. Back in my days of playing, that wouldn't "fire me up". And to say that Eli being quiet and reserved is what makes him a bad QB is pretty weak when you look at a certain 49ers QB who had a decent career despite being very quiet.

And yes, my case for Rivers being in a much easier position to succeed has completely trampled any attempt at a rebuttle, thank you.
There's a difference between calm and reserved and looking like a deer in the headlights, and Eli falls in the latter category.
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Old 07-21-2007, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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There's a difference between calm and reserved and looking like a deer in the headlights, and Eli falls in the latter category.
Since when does physical appearence have anything to do with his play?

Yeh he looks like a 7th grader sometimes and the blank stare can be made fun of by the guys who think its funny to mock down syndrome....Fact is he is a good QB that has been the first QB since Phil Simms to lead us to the playoffs in consecutive seasons and has overcome adversity more than the haters want to admit. He is a young QB that went through normal problems young QBs go through. This will be a telling year for Eli.
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Old 07-21-2007, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Since when does physical appearence have anything to do with his play?

Yeh he looks like a 7th grader sometimes and the blank stare can be made fun of by the guys who think its funny to mock down syndrome....Fact is he is a good QB that has been the first QB since Phil Simms to lead us to the playoffs in consecutive seasons and has overcome adversity more than the haters want to admit. He is a young QB that went through normal problems young QBs go through. This will be a telling year for Eli.
Unforunately he doesn't have the luxury of Tiki Barber in the backfield and that'll be a piece in him continuing to stuggle.
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Old 07-21-2007, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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Number ten, it doesn't matter that you're calling me foolish, it's not going to change how dismal Eli looks out there. The Chargers dodged two serious bullets in the last decade in Vick and Eli, IMO.

anyway, I'd give it up. You're making yourself look bad; plenty of people here debate these quarterbacks rationally and conversationally. I'm sorry for stepping out of line and sniping at you, but just like a battered housewife, it was your initial attitude that made me do it.

Anyway, I'm off work in a couple minutes.
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Old 07-21-2007, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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Unforunately he doesn't have the luxury of Tiki Barber in the backfield and that'll be a piece in him continuing to stuggle.
That is the main reason this will be a telling year for Eli. If the O-line holds up, which may or may not be the case especially at LT, he should be fine.

And while I expect the running game to take a step back and I worry about Jacobs' health due to his running style, people are under estimating BJ and I couldn't be happier about it. No, he won't rush for 1600 yards and no I don't think he will be a pro bowler, but he is much more than a short yardage back.
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Old 07-21-2007, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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Number ten, it doesn't matter that you're calling me foolish, it's not going to change how dismal Eli looks out there. The Chargers dodged two serious bullets in the last decade in Vick and Eli, IMO.

anyway, I'd give it up. You're making yourself look bad; plenty of people here debate these quarterbacks rationally and conversationally. I'm sorry for stepping out of line and sniping at you, but just like a battered housewife, it was your initial attitude that made me do it.

Anyway, I'm off work in a couple minutes.
Made myself look bad?

I backed my view up with facts, you went and talked about what? Physical appearence of one's face that judges a QB's play? Good job bud.
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Old 07-21-2007, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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Made myself look bad?

I backed my view up with facts, you went and talked about what? Physical appearence of one's face that judges a QB's play? Good job bud.
Number 10 you made a fair argument and thats really all you can do so don't worry about it
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Old 07-21-2007, 07:49 PM    (permalink
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Made myself look bad?

I backed my view up with facts, you went and talked about what? Physical appearence of one's face that judges a QB's play? Good job bud.
There's plenty of facts I might bother to drudge up when I sign on tomorrow, but here's my favorite one; if Eli was actually good, you probably wouldn't need to convince everybody he doesn't suck.
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Old 07-21-2007, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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If you look at Eli's stats last year, they weren't all that bad. Calling him a bust is completely absurd. He shouldn't even be mentioned in this thread.
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Old 07-21-2007, 08:04 PM    (permalink
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if eli shouldnt be mentioned...neither should losman
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Old 07-21-2007, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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There's plenty of facts I might bother to drudge up when I sign on tomorrow, but here's my favorite one; if Eli was actually good, you probably wouldn't need to convince everybody he doesn't suck.
Oh, so now he sucks.

Please go on, this is making my work here MUCH easier.
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Old 07-21-2007, 08:23 PM    (permalink
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Made myself look bad?

I backed my view up with facts, you went and talked about what? Physical appearence of one's face that judges a QB's play? Good job bud.
I think what Charger was trying to say (don't be mad if I convey this wrong, this is how I took it) is that Eli has no leadership skills nor poise. Shocky and Plex rule the huddle, and Coughlin is in his ear hollerin at him. Eli plays like a high school QB inside the pocket, lay one big hit on him early in the game and the rest of the night he's throwing off his back foot. Eli probably isn't that bad, just due to his weak poise and leadership skills, he cannot take control of the locker room or the game.

At times, he does look like a deer in the headlights because he has 0 control over his team. Coughlin is due to part of that, but it's mainly Eli's lack of leadership. This year he won't have Tiki to fall back onto when things get tough. If he succeeds this year, he's not a bust.

And stop pulling the injury card for his WRs. Heck, I'll do the injury card too. The Redskins had the best defense last year, just we were hurt in the secondary so we weren't that good. Face the facts, sometimes your guy just gets screwed over.
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Old 07-21-2007, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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I think what Charger was trying to say (don't be mad if I convey this wrong, this is how I took it) is that Eli has no leadership skills nor poise. Shocky and Plex rule the huddle, and Coughlin is in his ear hollerin at him. Eli plays like a high school QB inside the pocket, lay one big hit on him early in the game and the rest of the night he's throwing off his back foot. Eli probably isn't that bad, just due to his weak poise and leadership skills, he cannot take control of the locker room or the game.

At times, he does look like a deer in the headlights because he has 0 control over his team. Coughlin is due to part of that, but it's mainly Eli's lack of leadership. This year he won't have Tiki to fall back onto when things get tough. If he succeeds this year, he's not a bust.

And stop pulling the injury card for his WRs. Heck, I'll do the injury card too. The Redskins had the best defense last year, just we were hurt in the secondary so we weren't that good. Face the facts, sometimes your guy just gets screwed over.
You think anyone is going to give you an ounce of respect when you that about the Skins defense? Did you forget that you have no pass rushing, Marshall sucked at MLB, and Holdman was one of the worst starting LBs in the league?

Oh and not to mention the richest safety in football was a complete bust in Archuleta?
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Old 07-21-2007, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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You think anyone is going to give you an ounce of respect when you that about the Skins defense? Did you forget that you have no pass rushing, Marshall sucked at MLB, and Holdman was one of the worst starting LBs in the league?

Oh and not to mention the richest safety in football was a complete bust in Archuleta?
I was making an exaggeration. But you obviously didn't get it. The point was it doesn't matter your excuse, sometimes you just suck.
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Old 07-21-2007, 08:49 PM    (permalink
Number 10
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I was making an exaggeration. But you obviously didn't get it. The point was it doesn't matter your excuse, sometimes you just suck.
Before the injury bug hit us hard (and I'm not even talking about Osi-Strahan-Arrington-Tuck)

we were 6-2 and up there with Bears as the best team in the NFC. Yes, sometimes you do just suck, prime example being the Redskins. But we did not just suck last year, losing your LT and most reliable WR can really hurt a team and especially a QB who is starting for a 2nd year. Oh, and we still made the playoffs and played a very competitive game against the Eagles at their place with the likes of William Joseph, Adrian Awasom, and Fred Robbins rotating at DE.
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Old 07-21-2007, 09:04 PM    (permalink
skinzzfan25
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Originally Posted by Number 10 View Post
Before the injury bug hit us hard (and I'm not even talking about Osi-Strahan-Arrington-Tuck)

we were 6-2 and up there with Bears as the best team in the NFC. Yes, sometimes you do just suck, prime example being the Redskins. But we did not just suck last year, losing your LT and most reliable WR can really hurt a team and especially a QB who is starting for a 2nd year. Oh, and we still made the playoffs and played a very competitive game against the Eagles at their place with the likes of William Joseph, Adrian Awasom, and Fred Robbins rotating at DE.
Eli Manning can lead you to the playoffs, but your going to get 1 and done every year. If he can barely handle the pressure of the season, theres better chance Brunell wins us another playoff game then Eli making it anywhere in the playoffs. You can go 6-2 the first half of the season all you want, your team crumbles apart towards the end of the season.

Heck, the New York media doesn't defend Eli, his teammates have no confidence in him, Coughlin can't run an offense. The only group of people that have been by Eli's side are the fans and the Giants management because they know the Chargers gave them the wood in that trade.

Oh, by the way, if you want poise look at Campbell. I bet he does better than Eli this season. His skill set (and last name) may not be up to par Eli's, but he has the backing of his coach, organization, fans, and most importantly his team.
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Old 07-21-2007, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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Rivers is the better player hands down and it isnt even close.
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