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Old 07-20-2007, 08:20 AM    (permalink
Jay
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Default The Michael Vick legal discussion thread

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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
this thread has been skirting the absolute edge of no longer discussing issues related to the topic at hand. stay on topic. the instant this devolves into a discussion over what "innocent until proven guilty" means or devolves further into whether or not that means anything, there will be suspensions and the thread will be locked. the legal ramifications are entirely irrelevant, as the nfl has shown with recent precedent. discuss the nfl implications, or try your luck with a legal discussion in off-topic.
I am going to make this simple. Like D-Unit said, there are no ifs or buts, Michael Vick is done. He will go to jail. Anyone who thinks otherwise, obviously hasn't read this.

Here just one line that is pretty damning, and establishes fully that Michael Vick was 200% involved, behind, supportive and aware of the entire situations:

Quote:
68. In or about the fall of 2003, PEACE, PHILLIPS, TAYLOR, and VICK sponsored "Tiny" in a fight against the male pit bull sponsored by C.W. #3 (co-operating witness #3). During the fight, C.W. #3 was criticized by an unknown member to the Grand Jury of "Bad Newz Kennels" for C.W. #3's having yelled out VICK's name in front of the crowd during the dog fight.
There is no sense in arguing over suspension, because it has already been established that we all agree that the NFL should wait. It's been three days since the indictment went down. The Federal Government has established an extremely detailed and calculated case against Vick, and he will be in court throughout the season.

So I'm going to soften my stance a little and sit back and wait for everything to unfold, because it will, and it will happen fast. There is not even the most minute amount of reasonable doubt based on the evidence already presented that Vick will be able to prove his innocence, or that he was ignorant to the situation. It has been and will continue to be established that not only did Michael Vick know this was going on, he was one of the driving forces behind it and a very active participant.

It was brought up by Moses that Pacman has admitted to some of his injustices while Vick has steadfastly denied his involvement straight to the face of Roger Goodell, Arthur Blank, the Federal Government and the local VA DA. Somehow, that makes Pacman more deserving of penalty than Vick. Well, get back to me in a few months. Because it will be established that Vick has been lying straight to the face of everyone involved.

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, but just like the NFL is taking a step back before they say anything, I'd encourage those supporting Vick to sit back and let some of the events play out. You're going to feel awfully silly when everything plays out.

Even the black community it taking a step back from Michael Vick. That is pretty damning, considering they usually come to the defense of any of their brothers in their moments of need. They supported the stripper involved in the Duke rape case, even though every ounce of evidence in that case pointed towards her making the story up. Russell Simmons and Al Sharpton are calling out for the NFL to distance themselves from Michael Vick:

Quote:
In the wake of Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick's indictment on charges related to dogfighting, all of Vick's corporate sponsors, Falcons CEO Arthur Blank, and NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell received a joint letter this morning from hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons, civil rights leader The Rev. Al Sharpton, and PETA President Ingrid E. Newkirk roundly condemning dogfighting and other forms of violence.

Dogs who survive these fights often sustain serious injuries, such as broken bones and crushed cartilage, and many suffer and die from blood loss, shock, dehydration, exhaustion, or infection hours or days after a fight. The statement calls on people not only to condemn an NFL superstar for his alleged participation in this illegal activity but also to work to end dogfighting in our local communities.
This case will not be run by a DA running for re-election trying to win over the black vote in his community. It will be run by the Federal Government, who only lose cases on technicalities. IE, evidence being collected illegally, etc. In terms of being found innocent of all charges, the Feds are probably lose a case 1 out of every 30,000 times, if not more.

And that's not it for Vick and co. Now the Virginia DA is coming out and saying they will face state charges once their federal trial is over.

So yeah, an NFL suspension is and should be the least of Michael Vick's concerns. He's about to go to Federal "Pound Me In The Ass" Prison, and they won't be digging up Johnny Cochoran to get him out of it...
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Old 07-20-2007, 08:25 AM    (permalink
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i may be living under a rock, but i haven't heard any predictions for what kind of a sentence Vick might be looking at. can somebody fill me in.
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Old 07-20-2007, 08:27 AM    (permalink
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i may be living under a rock, but i haven't heard any predictions for what kind of a sentence Vick might be looking at. can somebody fill me in.

The maximum is 6 years.
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Old 07-20-2007, 08:27 AM    (permalink
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5-7 years on current charges I believe. They haven't even dipped into tax evasion yet, nor has the Virginia District Attorney added local charges.
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Old 07-20-2007, 08:28 AM    (permalink
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I believe if he's convicted on all charges, he's looking at a 6 year term.
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Old 07-20-2007, 08:34 AM    (permalink
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Vick could easily plea bargain out of jail or pull an O.J. and allow his dream team lawyers to bail him out. To say that he will go to jail no matter what is just stupid.
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Old 07-20-2007, 08:41 AM    (permalink
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I think there are several charges against him so my question is, which, if any, are felonies and which are misdemeanors?
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Old 07-20-2007, 08:53 AM    (permalink
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wow, so, pretty much marcus is the GOOD vick at this point.
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Old 07-20-2007, 09:27 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Moses View Post
Vick could easily plea bargain out of jail or pull an O.J. and allow his dream team lawyers to bail him out. To say that he will go to jail no matter what is just stupid.
Well, then a plea bargain is an admission of guilt, so the NFL would then suspend him, probably for more than a year. He won't do that, because that admission of guilt would be used against him in the local trial brewing in Virginia once the feds are done with him.

Beating the feds straight up is a once in a lifetime occurrence. His chances are about a million to one. On top of that, he is the big fish in this very little pond. The feds are going to get the other three defendants to out Vick and are much more likely to offer them deals.

I'll put it this way, if Michael Vick somehow beats this and faces no jail time and does not have to give a single admission of guilt, it will be the single greatest story in the history of the Federal court system. Books will be written, movies will be made and his lawyers will be rich beyond their wildest dreams. But it's a fairy-tale pipe-dream. I will eat my words, apologize profusely and negative rep myself into the red if that happens. I'll donate an entire weeks pay to the the charity of Moses choosing if that happens.

That's how much of a slam dunk this is. This isn't Scott Norwood in the Super Bowl with a gimme that will somehow be shanked. That 18 page document I linked in the first post is so detailed with at least 20 instances over the last 6-7 years of Vick being 100% involved in all of this, it makes Pacman Jones look like a good dude.



That's my buddy. It's pretty clear why I am so passionate about this case. It's not that I am anti-Michael Vick or anti-Atlanta Falcons, it's because what he has done is so horribly wrong and I just could never imagine my little dude going through something like that, or ever doing something to intentionally hurt him. I don't feel like I am being bias because of it, because the facts presented speak for themselves.

This proves the character we are dealing with. Also, it was said that the "Ron Mexico" thing went away. Of course it did, and of course he didn't go to jail, because it was a civil lawsuit:

Quote:
On April 24, 2006 Vick's attorney revealed that the lawsuit had settled out of court with a undisclosed settlement.
Guilty. Bad dude. Flips off his own fans. History of being a bad dude. It's all just coming to light now. It's unfortunate.
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Old 07-20-2007, 09:43 AM    (permalink
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Well, then a plea bargain is an admission of guilt, so the NFL would then suspend him, probably for more than a year. He won't do that, because that admission of guilt would be used against him in the local trial brewing in Virginia once the feds are done with him.

Beating the feds straight up is a once in a lifetime occurrence. His chances are about a million to one. On top of that, he is the big fish in this very little pond. The feds are going to get the other three defendants to out Vick and are much more likely to offer them deals.

I'll put it this way, if Michael Vick somehow beats this and faces no jail time and does not have to give a single admission of guilt, it will be the single greatest story in the history of the Federal court system. Books will be written, movies will be made and his lawyers will be rich beyond their wildest dreams. But it's a fairy-tale pipe-dream. I will eat my words, apologize profusely and negative rep myself into the red if that happens. I'll donate an entire weeks pay to the the charity of Moses choosing if that happens.

That's how much of a slam dunk this is. This isn't Scott Norwood in the Super Bowl with a gimme that will somehow be shanked. That 18 page document I linked in the first post is so detailed with at least 20 instances over the last 6-7 years of Vick being 100% involved in all of this, it makes Pacman Jones look like a good dude.



That's my buddy. It's pretty clear why I am so passionate about this case. It's not that I am anti-Michael Vick or anti-Atlanta Falcons, it's because what he has done is so horribly wrong and I just could never imagine my little dude going through something like that, or ever doing something to intentionally hurt him. I don't feel like I am being bias because of it, because the facts presented speak for themselves.

This proves the character we are dealing with. Also, it was said that the "Ron Mexico" thing went away. Of course it did, and of course he didn't go to jail, because it was a civil lawsuit:



Guilty. Bad dude. Flips off his own fans. History of being a bad dude. It's all just coming to light now. It's unfortunate.

Hold on there, just because he payed the girl off doesn't mean he's guilty. It means he just wanted to move on. By that logic, Kobe Bryant is a rapist.
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Old 07-20-2007, 09:46 AM    (permalink
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and the waterbottle
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Old 07-20-2007, 09:48 AM    (permalink
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Hold on there, just because he payed the girl off doesn't mean he's guilty. It means he just wanted to move on. By that logic, Kobe Bryant is a rapist.
why would you pay someone off if you are innocent though. if you truly were innocent then youre just giving in to what this person wanted in the first place.
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Old 07-20-2007, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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why would you pay someone off if you are innocent though. if you truly were innocent then youre just giving in to what this person wanted in the first place.

Because they don't want it to go on longer, and have their reputations completely trashed. Even if they are innocent, with their celebrity, the media would make a huge deal about it.
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Old 07-20-2007, 09:58 AM    (permalink
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Because they don't want it to go on longer, and have their reputations completely trashed. Even if they are innocent, with their celebrity, the media would make a huge deal about it.
but if you settle out of court people are more likely to think you actually did it as opposed to going through the legal process. plus that shows others that if they bring something up on that athlete even if its false, they might get paid to just go away.
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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but if you settle out of court people are more likely to think you actually did it as opposed to going through the legal process. plus that shows others that if they bring something up on that athlete even if its false, they might get paid to just go away.
He would have been tied up in court for years and it would have been blown up by the media. It's not nearly the big deal it could have been if he had have fought it in court. Plus, he could be saving money considering the legal costs he would endure.
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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and the waterbottle
I hate when people do this. Vick was cleared of ANY wrong-doing in that case. Why are you holding it against him?
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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I hate when people do this. Vick was cleared of ANY wrong-doing in that case. Why are you holding it against him?
because it counts as a "run-in" with the law.
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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because it counts as a "run-in" with the law.
So if I'm a suspect for murder but it turns out I wasn't involved at all and I did nothing wrong, it should still be held over me? After all, I was a suspect in a murder case.
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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because it counts as a "run-in" with the law.


How is an airlines complete **** up a run in with the law?
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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So if I'm a suspect for murder but it turns out I wasn't involved at all and I did nothing wrong, it should still be held over me? After all, I was a suspect in a murder case.
read what i wrote again. it says its a run-in with the law. you cant deny that it wasn't.
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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The water bottle is relevant. It wasn't that Vick was cleared due to evidence exhonorating him, it was a matter that it wasn't a case worth pursuing. It was a trace amount of marijuana residue, not nearly enough to pursue any intent to deal charges. Even had they found up to an ounce of actual marijuana in that bottle, Vick would have faced only a fine similar to that of a speeding ticket. It wasn't worth tying up crime labs and district attorneys to pursue, especially in light of the expensive attorneys Vick would have employed to defend himself. It just wasn't a big enough deal to bother prosecuting. It stayed off his police record, but Mike Vick sneaking weed around was another bad story for the league, and it does speak to his character as a guy who isn't exactly a model citizen.
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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The water bottle is relevant. It wasn't that Vick was cleared due to evidence exhonorating him, it was a matter that it wasn't a case worth pursuing. It was a trace amount of marijuana residue, not nearly enough to pursue any intent to deal charges. Even had they found up to an ounce of actual marijuana in that bottle, Vick would have faced only a fine similar to that of a speeding ticket. It wasn't worth tying up crime labs and district attorneys to pursue, especially in light of the expensive attorneys Vick would have employed to defend himself. It just wasn't a big enough deal to bother prosecuting. It stayed off his police record, but Mike Vick sneaking weed around was another bad story for the league, and it does speak to his character as a guy who isn't exactly a model citizen.
Quote:
On Monday, January 22, 2007, the test results indicated there were no illegal substances in the water bottle and Vick was cleared of any wrongdoing. Vick also was drug tested and the results were negative.[17]
He used it to store jewellery in. Know your stuff before you comment.
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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read what i wrote again. it says its a run-in with the law. you cant deny that it wasn't.
What are you talking about? A "run-in" with the law is irrelevant if you didn't do anything wrong.
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:41 AM    (permalink
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If that's what you want to believe, I've got some waterfront property to sell you. What happened there was making a minor charge quietly go away. It had already made the news, but they didn't have enough to press any meaningful charges. Saying the bottle was clean saved black eyes all around. Jewelry my ass.
If OJ Simpson came to your house selling knives, would you tell your wife, "Sure, babe, let him in, he was cleared of all charges..." Or could you come off the constitutional rights soapbox long enough to use your head and see the obvious?
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,814
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Moses could make a wolverine purr.Moses could make a wolverine purr.Moses could make a wolverine purr.Moses could make a wolverine purr.Moses could make a wolverine purr.Moses could make a wolverine purr.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scar View Post
If that's what you want to believe, I've got some waterfront property to sell you. What happened there was making a minor charge quietly go away. It had already made the news, but they didn't have enough to press any meaningful charges. Saying the bottle was clean saved black eyes all around. Jewelry my ass.
If OJ Simpson came to your house selling knives, would you tell your wife, "Sure, babe, let him in, he was cleared of all charges..." Or could you come off the constitutional rights soapbox long enough to use your head and see the obvious?
LOL are you kidding? What's more likely:

1) Vick used the water bottle to store jewellery in to prevent it from being stolen. Airport security mistaked it as a device used to transport drugs.

2) Airport security discovered Vick transporting drugs. They didn't feel like charging him. A crime lab illegally reported that there were no drugs in the water bottle. Vick was released.

Gimme a break. The bottle was TESTED and found clean by a crime lab. What evidence was there supporting your theory?
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