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View Poll Results: What time frame?
07-08/08-09 2 2.35%
09-10/10-11 2 2.35%
11-12/12-13 8 9.41%
13-14/14-15 7 8.24%
15-16/16-17 3 3.53%
2017+ 1 1.18%
Never 62 72.94%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-23-2007, 11:49 AM    (permalink
22,895
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The easy part of their schedule where they played 3 playoff teams (Eagles, Giants, Colts) in a row? Henry had 27 yards against the Giants and 37 against the Jaguars, not to mention only 93 against the Colts terrible run defence. He was good, but Young was the reason for the turnaround.
Eagles game Henry had 143 Yards. Young was 8/22.
Jags game the Titans shouldn't have won all together Young sucked it up. They only won because the Jags gave them three picks.
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Old 07-23-2007, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 22,895 View Post
Eagles game Henry had 143 Yards. Young was 8/22.
Jags game the Titans shouldn't have won all together Young sucked it up. They only won because the Jags gave them three picks.
The fact remains that the Titans were a terrible team until Young started. Once that happened, they turned around and almost made the playoffs. He made several clutch plays to keep them in games or win games for them throughout the season. Who in there right mind would say that Young's rookie season was a disappointment? He surpassed all expectations.
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Old 07-23-2007, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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Never. No offense to Vince, but the Titans are just one of those teams that have consistently demonstrated a proficiency in bungling their personnel decisions.
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Old 07-23-2007, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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I think Young will win a Super Bowl, he was just a rookie last year and he made everyone on that team better. He just simply has “it” he may not win it in the next few years but I really believe he will at some point in his career. And you have to remember almost everyone thought Young needed to stand on the sidelines for two years because he wasn’t NFL ready. Young loves to prove people wrong, and he’s gonna keep doing it.
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Old 07-23-2007, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway View Post
You can be anti-Vince Young and think he'll never end being a successful quarterback in the NFL, but to think that he wasn't the biggest reason for what the Titans did last year is pure ignorance.
I beg to differ. He had a few nice games and exceeded expectations. The reason the Titans "won" those games was not because of Vince Young, but rather the team playing better around him.
  • If Donovan McNabb doesn't get hurt early on, they don't beat the Eagles.
  • If Osi Umenyiora finishes the job, they don't beat the Giants.
  • If Rob Bironas doesn't hit an improbable 60 yard FG, they don't beat the Colts.
  • If David Garrard doesn't hand the Titans three defensive touchdowns, they don't beat the Jaguars.

You can credit Vince Young for the wins against the Texans and Bills. The Titans were the luckiest team I can think of, in recent memory. It will catch up to them; hence why I predict a terrible season from them.
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Old 07-23-2007, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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He had a Halfback who had 1211 Rushing Yards. He had a good WR in Bennett who had 737 Yards and 16.0 Receiving Average. His Stats we're low because his QB couldn't throw the ball.
Travis played very well, but Bennett....ugh. Bennett is a #2, and not a Reggie Wayne #2. Name another Titans WR. The Titans had one of the worst WR cores in the league last year.

I'd love to see him play with Peyton's weapons for a season.
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Old 07-23-2007, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Scar View Post
Never. No offense to Vince, but the Titans are just one of those teams that have consistently demonstrated a proficiency in bungling their personnel decisions.
The guy who made those decisions is gone. And even he fielded a very good team for a 5 year stretch (where they had the best winning % in the league). It's not like the Titans are the Lions or Texans here.
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Old 07-23-2007, 08:09 PM    (permalink
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If Donovan McNabb doesn't get hurt early on, they don't beat the Eagles.
So that's why the score was 7-3 Titans up when McNabb got hurt. He had a wonderful 46% comp % to that point, and had thrown 0 TD's and 1 INT for a 33.5 QB rating. Garcia came in and did better. And let's not forget the Eagles were a juggernaut to that point....with a record of 5-4. I'm not buying they win with McNabb.

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If Osi Umenyiora finishes the job, they don't beat the Giants.
How close did you watch the Titans last year? That was Kiwi. Anyway, they made the mistake, the Titans won...and VY had a big part to do with that.

Quote:
If Rob Bironas doesn't hit an improbable 60 yard FG, they don't beat the Colts.
Hey I could say, if that rookie lineman wouldn't have missed a block, we would have beat the Ravens on a last second FG. Fisher must have forgot his lucky rabbit's foot.

Quote:
If David Garrard doesn't hand the Titans three defensive touchdowns, they don't beat the Jaguars.
The Titans beat the team the Jags fielded, that's not luck. Every QB has won games where they played like crap....should we take those wins away?

Quote:
You can credit Vince Young for the wins against the Texans and Bills. The Titans were the luckiest team I can think of, in recent memory. It will catch up to them; hence why I predict a terrible season from them.
He had big parts in many of the wins, not just those two. It was obvious to anyone who watched every game (and not just homers). They made a lot of big plays, they had some big time playmakers....that's not luck.

They may have a bad year. Can they replace Henry? The good news is, the line is good. Replacing Bennett is not a big task. We're already better w/o Peter Sirmon, and it looks like Lameont Thompson will finally ride the pine, or get canned all together. Losing Pac does hurt, but also our d-line almost can't be as depleted as it was last year. Kerry Collins won't start the season, so that's a plus. And yeah, the Titans have a very tough schedule, and they had one of the toughest last year too. I think things will be similar to last year.
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Old 07-23-2007, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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Err, I meant Kiwanuka.
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Old 07-23-2007, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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I beg to differ. He had a few nice games and exceeded expectations. The reason the Titans "won" those games was not because of Vince Young, but rather the team playing better around him.
  • If Donovan McNabb doesn't get hurt early on, they don't beat the Eagles.
  • If Osi Umenyiora finishes the job, they don't beat the Giants.
  • If Rob Bironas doesn't hit an improbable 60 yard FG, they don't beat the Colts.
  • If David Garrard doesn't hand the Titans three defensive touchdowns, they don't beat the Jaguars.

You can credit Vince Young for the wins against the Texans and Bills. The Titans were the luckiest team I can think of, in recent memory. It will catch up to them; hence why I predict a terrible season from them.

shouldve, couldve, wouldve...

if marlon mcree went down after the pick instead of trying to run, the chargers go to the superbowl...

if tony romo didn't bobble the snap they beat the hawks...

if joe montana was on the texans they make the playoffs...

you can speculate all you want about what wouldve happened if this or that happened, but that's what football is, capitalizing on opportunities. Just because some luck of the cards just happen to fall in place doesn't mean you can take credit away from a player.
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Old 07-23-2007, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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You cannot credit Vince Young for any of those; hence the 'he wins games' argument holds no merit. Football is a team sport, and he was hardly as important a piece in their late season run as some would lead everyone to believe. I know, I was once in your shoes with Michael Vick using the same lines. Before I wised up, that is, and realized the BS I was spewing. In the end, eventually the luck (see the '04 Falcons for a diagram in luck) will run out.
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Old 07-23-2007, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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You cannot credit Vince Young for any of those; hence the 'he wins games' argument holds no merit. Football is a team sport, and he was hardly as important a piece in their late season run as some would lead everyone to believe. I know, I was once in your shoes with Michael Vick using the same lines. Before I wised up, that is, and realized the BS I was spewing. In the end, eventually the luck (see the '04 Falcons for a diagram in luck) will run out.
Do you not realize that Young put them in a position to win games? He made several huge plays to keep them in games or bring them into the lead.
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:27 PM    (permalink
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You cannot credit Vince Young for any of those; hence the 'he wins games' argument holds no merit. Football is a team sport, and he was hardly as important a piece in their late season run as some would lead everyone to believe. I know, I was once in your shoes with Michael Vick using the same lines. Before I wised up, that is, and realized the BS I was spewing. In the end, eventually the luck (see the '04 Falcons for a diagram in luck) will run out.
So you're using Vick's failure as proof that Vince is doomed to fail?

Both players are very gifted athletes and spectacular runners; both are black; both play quarterback.

Other than that, I see few if any similarities.

Young's character and leadership qualities are beyond reproach. Vick? Well.....

Young has also demonstrated an exemplary work ethic, and is completely committed to the team concept. He understands and embraces his role as a team leader, but has little regard for personal accolades.

Vick, OTOH, has openly admitted that he hasn't been as focused or worked as hard as he should have, and has allowed external distractions to get the better of him at times.

There may be certain attributes that are common to both players...but in terms of an overall comparison, I'd say Vince Young and Micheal Vick are about as similar as Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf.
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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You cannot credit Vince Young for any of those; hence the 'he wins games' argument holds no merit. Football is a team sport, and he was hardly as important a piece in their late season run as some would lead everyone to believe. I know, I was once in your shoes with Michael Vick using the same lines. Before I wised up, that is, and realized the BS I was spewing. In the end, eventually the luck (see the '04 Falcons for a diagram in luck) will run out.
You're right if you're saying some blew VY's performance last year out of proportion. There were several factors to the wins last year, but you still give VY too little credit. You seem to be taking the opposite end of the spectrum just to be a contrarian? Or just because you've watched Vick not progress and think VY = Vick?

I'll be the 1st to say (wait, that's a lie, this is being said all over Titans MB's), that VY needs to improve as a passer. Many QB's do, some don't. Just from his demeanor and improvement during his 1st year, I'd say the chances are better for him improving. Now I think like any QB, he'll need help. I'm not worried about the help from the run game. Not worried about the TE's or the o-line. There's potential in some of the young wr's, but we'll just have to see there. It could end up scary, or we could end up with our next 4th round steal ala Derrick Mason, or UDFA Drew Bennett.
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Old 07-23-2007, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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*Reads 22,895's posts*

There has to be some bias in this...

*Reads 22,895's signature*

"The University of Southern California..."

Hmmm...

:P
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:07 AM    (permalink
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I think VY will win 1 or 2 during his career.


But also some people are really underrating Vick.

he had a fantasitc 2nd year in the league. MVP type season, also beat The Packers @ Lambeau in the playoffs, so i don't know how people can say Young is farther along then Vick was at the same spot in their career.

Also i have to throw this statistic out there

Vick's first 44 games as a starter in the NFL 30-14
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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I think VY will win 1 or 2 during his career.


But also some people are really underrating Vick.

he had a fantasitc 2nd year in the league. MVP type season, also beat The Packers @ Lambeau in the playoffs, so i don't know how people can say Young is farther along then Vick was at the same spot in their career.

Also i have to throw this statistic out there

Vick's first 44 games as a starter in the NFL 30-14
Vick is extremely underrated by most on these boards. They just bring up random passing statistics and think that they prove he's a terrible QB.
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Old 07-24-2007, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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I beg to differ. He had a few nice games and exceeded expectations. The reason the Titans "won" those games was not because of Vince Young, but rather the team playing better around him.
  • If Donovan McNabb doesn't get hurt early on, they don't beat the Eagles.
  • If Osi Umenyiora finishes the job, they don't beat the Giants.
  • If Rob Bironas doesn't hit an improbable 60 yard FG, they don't beat the Colts.
  • If David Garrard doesn't hand the Titans three defensive touchdowns, they don't beat the Jaguars.

You can credit Vince Young for the wins against the Texans and Bills. The Titans were the luckiest team I can think of, in recent memory. It will catch up to them; hence why I predict a terrible season from them.

look at how many "ifs" you just listed...i mean, come on now...do you know how many teams we could do that to in the league...I could do one for the chargers, that would have them facing the colts in the AFC champ game, and probably on to win the super bowl...I could list a bunch that would have the pats winning the super bowl, I could also "if" the broncos way into the playoffs, along with the jags, and "if" the cowboys past the seahawks...


you guys come up with the most ridiculous points sometimes...if you honestly have to come up with a list of "ifs" as to why things went the way they did, then theres no point...Im sure alot of those same "ifs" happened his senior year at UT, and during the NC game vs USC as well....


and you also have to take into account what VY does for the entire team, as far as motivation, and wanting to go out and play hard for him...you have NO idea how he affected that entire teams morale when he took over the reigns, and i remember reading the interviews from the veterans on the defense, and the O line saying they were out their playing even harder for vince, which means the defensive players as well....


first its he needs to sit for 2-3 years before he can understand the offense...then its his passing stats are horrible as if he's not a rookie qb, then its the defense who won all those games....funny how everyone cries out about how important the qb position is, but when we talk about vince young its EVERY OTHER possible scenario except his play that affected the team...did you notice the same defense wasnt showing up and making big plays early in the year when collins played? they also had the same RB back then, yet were still losing and counting down to calvin johnson....


im so tired of some of the people on here finding excuses for vince not being all he's cracked up to be, but its never going to stop...he did wonders for a team that was destined to be picking top 3 in the draft, everything he did for his team doesnt show up on that stat sheet...
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 07-24-2007, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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You cannot credit Vince Young for any of those; hence the 'he wins games' argument holds no merit. Football is a team sport, and he was hardly as important a piece in their late season run as some would lead everyone to believe. I know, I was once in your shoes with Michael Vick using the same lines. Before I wised up, that is, and realized the BS I was spewing. In the end, eventually the luck (see the '04 Falcons for a diagram in luck) will run out.
NOW its bs because vick is about to go to jail? thats funny, eventually the luck runs out? your acting like they had a playoff run deep into the playoffs, or won a coin toss to get in, they didnt even make the playoffs...and i find a hard time believing they will struggle the next 8 years frankly because "their luck ran out", or if your suggesting that the titans will go nowhere, and neither will vince because of the situation with vick/atlanta his whole career is even crazier...i guess all black qb's stick together, seeing as how vick was the most recent high profile black qb, its almost a sure thing VY career ends up exactly similiar to his, start off good, levels off only to take his team nowhere....but ya they are both black, so your right their luck will run out just like atlanta and vicks, i love the logic on that one **rolls eyes**
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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For all the "what ifs" the Titans had in 06 for their win column, they had just as many for the loss column.

What if Fisher and Co didn't screw up the QB position the first three weeks with Collins but started VY early? Maybe the Jets and Dolphins games (both very close despite HORRIBLE QB play) were wins. Maybe VY would have been more effective by the 2nd half of the season, which is a scary thought actually.

What if the 3rd string TE didn't blow a blocking assignment on the game winning FG attempt against the Ravens. What if Pacman didn't come off the field with a stinger the play Manning victimized Woolfolk on the game winning TD in Indy (a game they won by 1 measly point).

What if Fisher and Co went to the OL configuration (Roos-Bell-Mawae-Olson-Stewart) from week 1 instead of week 5 or whatever it was that ended up producing some of the best rushing games the NFL saw last season. Fans here and elsewhere were calling for this config before preseason let alone mid regular season - low and behold, it worked wonders.

What if Haynesworth and Pacman weren't suspended for 1 (or more in Albert's case) games? They're both hugely important players on the D.

The Titans were a very "in the moment" team last year, playing on the edge of victory and defeat quite often. The "luck" went both ways, but if anything it was arguably against them more. In any case, VY is the type of player you want at QB in those "on the edge" games, and this came through often in 06.

Oh and the "Garrard playing bad" excuse doesn't even come close to flying. Bad players play bad, it's part of football. If that were a valid excuse, so would 50% of all losses. It doesn't even register as a trivial excuse.

Last edited by OzTitan : 07-24-2007 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 07-24-2007, 10:05 PM    (permalink
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He wont ever win The Madden Curse lives on aaaaahhhhaahaha
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Old 07-24-2007, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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I don't think he'll win one either ...scramblers might get there but they have a hardtime winning...
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Old 07-24-2007, 10:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by OzTitan View Post
For all the "what ifs" the Titans had in 06 for their win column, they had just as many for the loss column.

What if Fisher and Co didn't screw up the QB position the first three weeks with Collins but started VY early? Maybe the Jets and Dolphins games (both very close despite HORRIBLE QB play) were wins. Maybe VY would have been more effective by the 2nd half of the season, which is a scary thought actually.

What if the 3rd string TE didn't blow a blocking assignment on the game winning FG attempt against the Ravens. What if Pacman didn't come off the field with a stinger the play Manning victimized Woolfolk on the game winning TD in Indy (a game they won by 1 measly point).

What if Fisher and Co went to the OL configuration (Roos-Bell-Mawae-Olson-Stewart) from week 1 instead of week 5 or whatever it was that ended up producing some of the best rushing games the NFL saw last season. Fans here and elsewhere were calling for this config before preseason let alone mid regular season - low and behold, it worked wonders.

What if Haynesworth and Pacman weren't suspended for 1 (or more in Albert's case) games? They're both hugely important players on the D.

The Titans were a very "in the moment" team last year, playing on the edge of victory and defeat quite often. The "luck" went both ways, but if anything it was arguably against them more. In any case, VY is the type of player you want at QB in those "on the edge" games, and this came through often in 06.

Oh and the "Garrard playing bad" excuse doesn't even come close to flying. Bad players play bad, it's part of football. If that were a valid excuse, so would 50% of all losses. It doesn't even register as a trivial excuse.
True they won those games fairly, but that doesn't mean that Vince won them himself, which many people seem to give him credit for. Vince didn't win 8 games. The Titans did.

The Jaguars game: 8/15 85 yards, 70.1 rating. No turnovers, but that game was not a game where he took over and won it on his own.

Against Houston, he had a very good game, on top of running for the game winning score. He was a major factor in that one. No TDs through the air, but his yardage and percentage were excellent, and he had a good day on the ground.

In the win against Indy, he was decent, 15/25 163 2TD-2INT. Not a bad game, not a particularly good one either. I wouldn't give him credit for "winning" that one, especially since the game was won on an obscenely long FG attempt.

Philly: 8/22 101 yards, 1 TD. No turnovers, but the yardage and percentage were awful. Not a game where he deserves credit for "winning" the game. The game was a blowout, too, so its not like he threw a last minute game winning TD.

Against Washington, he didn't really do anything special. Same with the game against Houston in Tennessee.

Let me just say though: I do like Vince, I think he has a brilliant future in the league and even though I personally would have voted for Colston, Vince winning OROY was fine in my books. He had an excellent year. Even though as I demonstrated above, in many games he did not truly will the team to victory, he deserves credit for assuming a leadership role, and not throwing games away, while in fact being a leading cause in a few wins.
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Old 07-25-2007, 01:44 AM    (permalink
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He obviously didn't win them by himself, but he was a huge part of the turn around. I sincerely don't believe the Titans would have come close to 8-8 without him.

It's not always stats, it's the impact he had on the team from a leader standpoint too. In the Giants game, veterans right afterwards in post game press conferences explained how the game for them turned around the instant Vince took a cheap shot on the sidelines and got up straight away even more fired up. After that point he was a man on a mission and the whole team got behind him. He became a true leader for the Titans a few games after taking the starting role, and this is a rookie QB we're talking about. It's not even speculation, the veterans on many occasions have said the team was totally different from top to bottom when he took the reigns.

If Vince was a 5th year pro last season, it would have been a disappointing (yet still exciting) season, but he was a rookie. He did carry the team from an offensive leadership position and came up big in key parts of games. His stats are quite normal for a rookie QB but his impact was beyond normal. It takes looking beyond static web site stat sheets to understand this.
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Old 07-25-2007, 02:16 AM    (permalink
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I guess when you think about vince youngs rookie year its not just about stats. you have to ask yourself, how many games did vince young win that collins wouldnt have, and id have to say at least 5. i doubt the titans wouldve won more than 3 games if collins had been the QB all season, and thats where his value is apparant the most.
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