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Old 07-24-2007, 12:08 PM    (permalink
Moses
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[quote=bsaza2358;528165]There is limited quantitative or qualitative evidence to suggest whether individual defense lawyers are better or worse than public prosecutors.[quote]

This is just common sense. Where do the best people in any profession go? To the best jobs. Most lawyers see working in or owning a private firm as the best job. They make more money, have more freedom, and can choose exactly what they want to do. Sure, the odd top lawyer will choose to become a federal prosecutor but they would be few and far between. Also, federal prosecutors are appointed so you can bet that a lot are juiced in more on political clout than skill-level.
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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See, you're projecting your own motives a little too strongly. Most people are motivated by financial compensation. Most people see private legal work as the best kind of job. That is not all. The best defense that money can buy will guarantee you high bills and experienced legal professionals. That doesn't mean they're definitely the best. That is the crux of my argument.

Also, I was just talking with 2 friends who are associates at private firms. One of them works for a partner who was a federal prosecutor first. He tells me that federal prosecution work is a fantastic career builder, perhaps stronger than just a life in private firms. You don't get paid a lot early on, but when you finish your tenure, you move directly into partnership at top firms. There are a lot of different ways to get to the top of the legal world.
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bsaza2358 View Post
See, you're projecting your own motives a little too strongly. Most people are motivated by financial compensation. Most people see private legal work as the best kind of job. That is not all. The best defense that money can buy will guarantee you high bills and experienced legal professionals. That doesn't mean they're definitely the best. That is the crux of my argument.

Also, I was just talking with 2 friends who are associates at private firms. One of them works for a partner who was a federal prosecutor first. He tells me that federal prosecution work is a fantastic career builder, perhaps stronger than just a life in private firms. You don't get paid a lot early on, but when you finish your tenure, you move directly into partnership at top firms. There are a lot of different ways to get to the top of the legal world.
Exactly. Federal prosecution is a great starting point for many lawyers. However, top private firms are going to have the more experienced, talented, and overall better lawyers.
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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I think we're probably arguing a similar point and basically agree here, so I'm going to stop. I will say that perhaps the defense team is at a slight disadvantage because of their lack of experience with federal cases. There are very few federal cases out there, so the prosecution receives a lot of experience, while the defense splits the work across the industry.
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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I think we're probably arguing a similar point and basically agree here, so I'm going to stop. I will say that perhaps the defense team is at a slight disadvantage because of their lack of experience with federal cases. There are very few federal cases out there, so the prosecution receives a lot of experience, while the defense splits the work across the industry.
Billy Martin alone has been in several high-profile cases including Monica Lewinsky, Jayson Williams, Allen Iverson, etc...

Federal prosecutors don't generally stick around very long because they are appointed and are just using the position as a stepping stone.
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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He's represented Jayson Williams (NBA), Bill Campbell (Atlanta Mayor), Monica and Lewinsky (White House Intern) among others. Very successful and proven trial lawyer from what I've read. Should be interesting to see who else he adds to the team.
im really curious as to how much these lawyers end up making for one high profile case like the ones named, or Vick's...

six figures? gotta be sky high
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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im really curious as to how much these lawyers end up making for one high profile case like the ones named, or Vick's...

six figures? gotta be sky high
It's atleast six figures. When you're fighting for someone's innocence, especially people with alot of money, you get paid a nice amount to try and keep them out of prison.
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Old 07-24-2007, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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These top lawyers are billing their own time at at least $500 an hour per partner hour. Senior Associate hours are billed at between $250-300 an hour, junior associates up to $200 an hour, and paralegal hours are about $100. In most cases, the associates and support staff are paid a salary, so you get plenty of profit margin out of them. Partners are sometimes on salary as well. The firm could book hundreds of thousands in profits from a single case that goes to trial.
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Old 07-24-2007, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
im really curious as to how much these lawyers end up making for one high profile case like the ones named, or Vick's...

six figures? gotta be sky high
Six figures EASILY. I'm not sure on specifics, but I would not be surprised if Billy Martin is adding at least 7 figures to his bankroll.
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Old 07-24-2007, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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I'm willing to bet that he's already played his last down in his NFL Career. What he's doing is best for the game. I'm happy to see that he has the respect to do this. Props to him for that.

ATL should go after Culpepper... if he's still out there...
Hes not making that decision man, goodell is ordering him too.
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Old 07-24-2007, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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IS the NFL a coporation, maybe even each team is seen as a corporation.

Fire him.


If this happened with me and my company, I'd lose licensing and be blacked balled across the board, have no references etcs.

F-- Due PROCESS!
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Old 07-24-2007, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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There are many forces at work here. First of all, cutting Vick would cost the Falcons $21mm in cap space over the next 2 seasons, and they'd get no compensation for the loss of a dynamic playmaker. If they keep him on the roster for this season, the cap hit in 2008 is much less. Under the existing conduct policy, the NFL will need a lot of evidence to back themselves up against an almost guaranteed union appeal. They need to do their due dilligence before acting rashly. Finally, if Vick goes out and gets a not-guilty verdict, the NFL and the Falcons look like a bunch of dicks.
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Old 07-24-2007, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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There are many forces at work here. First of all, cutting Vick would cost the Falcons $21mm in cap space over the next 2 seasons, and they'd get no compensation for the loss of a dynamic playmaker. If they keep him on the roster for this season, the cap hit in 2008 is much less. Under the existing conduct policy, the NFL will need a lot of evidence to back themselves up against an almost guaranteed union appeal. They need to do their due dilligence before acting rashly. Finally, if Vick goes out and gets a not-guilty verdict, the NFL and the Falcons look like a bunch of dicks.
Not to mention the huge lawsuit that would ensue...

Vick could sue for lost wages, lost sponsors, public embarassment, etc. etc.
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Old 07-24-2007, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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News on the Vick front:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFL Press Release
Commissioner Goodell informed Vick that the review would be completed as soon as possible and that Vick’s full cooperation is expected.
That means if Vick doesn't cooperate, Goodell will suspend him. It's highly unlikely Vick would testify to the commissioner. If he does so, what he says would be used against him in court. That will give Goodell the autonomy to banish Vick for the season. Vick has the right to not testify in court; however, that won't apply when the league asks for his knowledge of the situation.

Another facet of this is if Vick is suspended by the league, the Falcons can make a play to get their signing bonus money back. That's the main reason he's still on the team. If they can get the money back, they can cut him without hesitation.
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Old 07-24-2007, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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This and the NBA ref scandal could do a lot of damage to this nation's sports.
Steroids in baseball.. dogfighting in football... crooked refs in basketball... nascar being nascar...

It is time for hockey to make it's valiant return.
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Old 07-24-2007, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Steroids in baseball.. dogfighting in football... crooked refs in basketball... nascar being nascar...

It is time for hockey to make it's valiant return.
More like Beckham brings the World's sport to the U.S.


(I hope not)
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Old 07-24-2007, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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Not to mention the huge lawsuit that would ensue...

Vick could sue for lost wages, lost sponsors, public embarassment, etc. etc.
how could vick sue for public embarrassment...he put himself at those dogfights, he was the one whose property it was on...come on people, get past looking at Mike Vick as an icon and think about if it was (hypothetically) your dog who was killed in these fights, you'd want the person ultimately responsible to be held accountable...right? that's what mike vick is...accountable...he's going to go to jail and he's not going to play for the falcons...their fans are living in a dream world...federal cases have a 97.6 conviction rate...you really think that the feds piled a case against vick that wasn't airtight...knowing how big of a star and icon he is...think people!

I heard visiting hours in federal prisons are from 12-2pm...
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Old 07-24-2007, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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If Vick is found not guilty, he could sue for what is tantamount to slander/libel/defamation of character to recoup his lost wages and endorsements.
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Old 07-24-2007, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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how could vick sue for public embarrassment...he put himself at those dogfights, he was the one whose property it was on...come on people, get past looking at Mike Vick as an icon and think about if it was (hypothetically) your dog who was killed in these fights, you'd want the person ultimately responsible to be held accountable...right? that's what mike vick is...accountable...he's going to go to jail and he's not going to play for the falcons...their fans are living in a dream world...federal cases have a 97.6 conviction rate...you really think that the feds piled a case against vick that wasn't airtight...knowing how big of a star and icon he is...think people!

I heard visiting hours in federal prisons are from 12-2pm...
He might as well start serving his sentence now. Screw the justice system. Screw looking at evidence. We should just base decisions like this based on what we read in the media. After all, they've never been wrong on anything.
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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I thought this was hilarious:

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Old 07-24-2007, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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how could vick sue for public embarrassment...he put himself at those dogfights, he was the one whose property it was on...come on people, get past looking at Mike Vick as an icon and think about if it was (hypothetically) your dog who was killed in these fights, you'd want the person ultimately responsible to be held accountable...right? that's what mike vick is...accountable...he's going to go to jail and he's not going to play for the falcons...their fans are living in a dream world...federal cases have a 97.6 conviction rate...you really think that the feds piled a case against vick that wasn't airtight...knowing how big of a star and icon he is...think people!

I heard visiting hours in federal prisons are from 12-2pm...
I dont think Mike Vick kills other peoples dogs here, any dogs that were killed were raised by dogfighters its not like some random peoples housepets were killed in these dogfights here and the owners of those dogs want Vick punished for it, which is what youre making it sound like.

As far as what will happen, who knows, us fans dont have all the facts. I think its best we just wait and see rather than jump to conclusions.
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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What Goddell has done is "SET THE PRECEDENCE".

I love the NFL under his reign. Stars are not exceptions to the rules and he'll make up new rules for new circumstances to keep the league away from harm.
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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Something to keep in mind, especially with regards potential repercussion from Goodell and the league office, is the illegal gambling aspect of this indictment. That's not an area you want to cross with the league offices imo.
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:03 PM    (permalink
ks_perfection
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Originally Posted by bsaza2358 View Post
If Vick is found not guilty, he could sue for what is tantamount to slander/libel/defamation of character to recoup his lost wages and endorsements.
Sue Who? The government had enough evidence to get by the grand jury so its not like its baseless. Only if it was way out of line could he sue, just losing doesn't cut it. Can't sue the media as they are just reporting what the government is saying. The NFL is just going to suspend him, nothing more and there doing it because of what embarrasing menat already occured.
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:32 PM    (permalink
ATLDirtyBirds
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Sue Who? The government had enough evidence to get by the grand jury so its not like its baseless. Only if it was way out of line could he sue, just losing doesn't cut it. Can't sue the media as they are just reporting what the government is saying. The NFL is just going to suspend him, nothing more and there doing it because of what embarrasing menat already occured.

He was talking if the NFL suspended him and he was found innocent.
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