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Old 07-26-2007, 07:52 PM    (permalink
Jonny
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Penn State recently won only 3 games. My point was solely that neither is on the level of an Ohio State or Michigan. Not even close.

Have you ever even seen South Florida play? They're the 2nd best team in Florida and a sure-fire top 25 team. They're really good.
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Old 07-26-2007, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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Penn State recently won only 3 games. My point was solely that neither is on the level of an Ohio State or Michigan. Not even close.

Have you ever even seen South Florida play? They're the 2nd best team in Florida and a sure-fire top 25 team. They're really good.
There is a difference between being good for a year or two and being a good program. Do you mean to tell me that you think South Florida is the 2nd best program in the state, or as of this year the 2nd best, there is a huge difference.

I understood your point, but that's like saying neither five dollars or a thousand dollars is a million dollars so they must be the same. Just because Penn State and Wisconsin aren't the programs that Ohio State and Michigan are doesn't mean Rutgers even belongs in the same sentence as them. Put Rutgers in the Big Ten and they are at best battling with Minnesota, Purdue, and Michigan State as the teams that sometimes sneak into 3rd or 4th.
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Old 07-26-2007, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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I'm going to go with at least FSU or Miami will be better than USF this year, but USF is a good team...I think Iowa St. or Pitt are obviously the best choices
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Old 07-26-2007, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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There is a difference between being good for a year or two and being a good program. Do you mean to tell me that you think South Florida is the 2nd best program in the state, or as of this year the 2nd best, there is a huge difference.

I understood your point, but that's like saying neither five dollars or a thousand dollars is a million dollars so they must be the same. Just because Penn State and Wisconsin aren't the programs that Ohio State and Michigan are doesn't mean Rutgers even belongs in the same sentence as them. Put Rutgers in the Big Ten and they are at best battling with Minnesota, Purdue, and Michigan State as the teams that sometimes sneak into 3rd or 4th.
whoa now...let's not get over our head here...Minny competing for 3rd or 4th? this is still the football thread right? not hockey?
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Old 07-26-2007, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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Put Rutgers in the Big Ten and they are at best battling with Minnesota, Purdue, and Michigan State as the teams that sometimes sneak into 3rd or 4th.
So will Missouri, Pitt, Iowa State, Louisville or any other potential Big 10 member other than ND.
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Old 07-26-2007, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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Penn State recently won only 3 games. My point was solely that neither is on the level of an Ohio State or Michigan. Not even close.

Have you ever even seen South Florida play? They're the 2nd best team in Florida and a sure-fire top 25 team. They're really good.
USF is not the second best team in Florida on a year by year basis. Some people get too caught up in what a team does for one season. Rutgers hasn't done **** to deserve being in the Big 10. As of right now they'd be scrapping for 5th place.
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Old 07-26-2007, 08:01 PM    (permalink
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whoa now...let's not get over our head here...Minny competing for 3rd or 4th? this is still the football thread right? not hockey?
Minnesota has been a solid team over the last ten years. Nothing spectacular but they've generally been anywhere from 4th-6th and made a bowl game. They've been more successful than Michigan State, the other team I mentioned.
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Old 07-26-2007, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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So will Missouri, Pitt, Iowa State, Louisville or any other potential Big 10 member other than ND.
Louisville has the facilities, fan base, coaches, and money to compete in the Big Ten in both football and basketball.
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Old 07-26-2007, 08:04 PM    (permalink
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Minnesota has been a solid team over the last ten years. Nothing spectacular but they've generally been anywhere from 4th-6th and made a bowl game. They've been more successful than Michigan State, the other team I mentioned.
haha I'm just giving you a hard time...MSU blows, they are especially good in 2nd halves of seasons...

I just can't see the Big 10 adding a team so far east/west as Rutgers, it just doesn't make sense to me when they can add a comparable team from the midwest (excluding Pitt because of PSU))
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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For those who say CMU. I would have a seizure from excitement if the Chippewas made it to the Big 10.

Now their chances of making it. CMU hasn't been that good football wise. They have been average at best in the MAC. They haven't had a serious program since Brian Kelly came (and then left for Cinci). Mt. Pleasant isn't that great of a Sports College and not that appealing to recruits. I do gotta say they are tremendously growing academically. They arebuilding some beautiful new buildings and there were talks of making a medical school.

They have been continually been killed by Michigan. They have lost to Indiana a couple of times and Mich. St.

So academically rising, but I just can't see them joining the likes of the Big 10.

Sorry for the long post, I was too excited reading about my Chippewas on an actual website.
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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This is from another board.

Quote:
notre dame
pro: major league cash cow, instant hit across the country.
con: why would notre dame give up its nbc contract?

syracuse
pro: major tv market (ny) and good if not great sports tradition.
con: unlikely to leave big east unless big bucks are thrown its way.

louisville
pro: geography and basketball tradition.
con: weak tv market and pitino jumped through hoops (no pun intended) to get the school into the big east. he wouldn't want to flip.

rutgers
pro: major tv market (ny/nj).
con: very weak sports tradition.

pittsburgh
pro: solidifies an entire state with a large population base as a big 10 footprint; good geography; decent if not strong sports tradition; decent sized tv market. pitt people would jump at this i believe because they desperately want to play penn state each year in football but paterno won't agree. by joining big 10, it forces paterno's hand. also, football attendance would skyrocket for pitt.
con: i can't think of too many cons aside from would pitt want to leave the big east? my guess is, yes. in my eyes, this is the best practical move for the big 10 if they can't lure notre dame (very doubtful) or syracuse (50/50 at best).

missouri
pro: solidifies a decent-sized tv market as big 10 country (st. louis) and brings in a medium-sized tv market (kansas city). geography is good.
con: at the risk of starting a flamewar, why would the big 10 want a weak sports program like missouri?

(when is the last time missouri played in a new years day bowl game? when is the last time a missouri team played in a final four? when is the last time missouri got to the college worlds series?)

iowa state
pro: geography; rabid, loyal fan base.
con: lousy tv market; lousy athletic department.

cincinnati
pro: locks up ohio as a big 10 footprint (as if it's not already); medium sized tv market. decent basketball tradition.
con: ncaa problems with hoops program; terrible football facilities.

kentucky
pro: rabid hoops fanbase; geography.
con: not a good tv market; no football tradition (unless you count bear bryant in the early 50s); too much sec tradition.

DARKHORSE
south florida
pro: this is not so far-fetched from a money standpoint. look at what bringing in florida state did for the acc. top 10 tv market that continues to grow; enables big 10 network to move into florida; gives big 10 a toehold in nation's soon-to-be third largest state with a population base that continues to mushroom; rising football power; gives big 10 schools ability to mine the state for its football-rich talent and underrated basketball recruits. travel is only two hours from midwest/northeast (no worse than flying from minnesota or chicago to penn state).
con: miserable basketball program beyond words; no sports tradition to speak of.
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:33 PM    (permalink
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For those who say CMU. I would have a seizure from excitement if the Chippewas made it to the Big 10.

Now their chances of making it. CMU hasn't been that good football wise. They have been average at best in the MAC. They haven't had a serious program since Brian Kelly came (and then left for Cinci). Mt. Pleasant isn't that great of a Sports College and not that appealing to recruits. I do gotta say they are tremendously growing academically. They arebuilding some beautiful new buildings and there were talks of making a medical school.

They have been continually been killed by Michigan. They have lost to Indiana a couple of times and Mich. St.

So academically rising, but I just can't see them joining the likes of the Big 10.

Sorry for the long post, I was too excited reading about my Chippewas on an actual website.
There is no way that Central Michigan would join the Big Ten. There football program, while good recently, does not stack up against Big Ten competition. They've won one MAC Championship (last year) in the past 15 years. It's not just football either. Their basketball program is basically non-existant.
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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There is no way that Central Michigan would join the Big Ten. There football program, while good recently, does not stack up against Big Ten competition. They've won one MAC Championship (last year) in the past 15 years. It's not just football either. Their basketball program is basically non-existant.
Football only has Dan LeFevour and the only legit hoops player to come out of there is Chris Kaman and he's hideous.
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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There is no way that Central Michigan would join the Big Ten. There football program, while good recently, does not stack up against Big Ten competition. They've won one MAC Championship (last year) in the past 15 years. It's not just football either. Their basketball program is basically non-existant.
I am Central Michigan's #1 fan, but their team is a joke. Their two biggest games in their history is last year Motor City Bowl win over Mid. Tenn and winning the Div 2 National Championship over Delaware back in 1974. Tell me how that compares to Northwestern's Rose Bowls or Michigan's history of being the winningest team in College Football.

Now basketball, is even a bigger joke. They had Chris Kaman on their team a couple of years ago and that is it. The rest are a bunch of nobodys.

Cincinnati has put some money towards their facilities and they are getting an excellent coach coming in.

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Old 07-26-2007, 10:53 PM    (permalink
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It's Ohio State and Michigan and then everyone else. Not like the Wisconsins of the world get it done with elite recruiting. They develop players, just like Rutgers.

Why will Rutgers regress when the team just had its best recruiting year ever? NJ is a very football rich area, much better than Iowa, Minnesota, Michigan, Indiana, or Wisconsin.

Rutgers will have strong pull nationally. It's a media darling with the New York market on its side. And it's going to happen in the Big East.
Haha New Jersey a very rich football area Still they have some talent, it's a shame Rutgers won't be able to keep all of them there.

I'm sure all the kids down south and in California and Fla. would rather go to Rutgers because "it's a media darling" instead of getting to go to USC or Miami or any half decent football school...haha ya right.

Sorry if I put Wisconsin up there, they have been going to bowl games regularly since the 90s, something Rutgers fans obviously would know nothing about. Still Wisconsin managed to develop a starting offensive line that is bigger than the average NFL line. They grow 'em big in Wisconsin. And if you don't think Penn State belongs up there you are crazy. They have had one of the greatest coaches of all time and are a very storied program.....another thing Rutgers knows nothing about.

Rutgers has no pull nationally. When your team has been to what? 2 bowl games in the schools entire history. Heck, going to 2 bowl games in a decade is pretty bad. Face it this Rutgers phenom is a couple of year deal. They soon will return to the depths of the league where they belong.

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Old 07-26-2007, 11:02 PM    (permalink
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Penn State recently won only 3 games. My point was solely that neither is on the level of an Ohio State or Michigan. Not even close.

Have you ever even seen South Florida play? They're the 2nd best team in Florida and a sure-fire top 25 team. They're really good.
You trying to say Penn State recently had a 3 win season is the same as saying Rutgers had a winning season. It doesn't happen that often. And to match your argument Rutgers recently went 1-11. Ya they won one game. Does that put them on the level of Big time college football with national pull? Not even close.
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Illinois, Iowa, and Minnesota all have very good academics. You know not which you speak.

That actually is a good point though, every school in the Big Ten is either very strong at research or undergraduate (or both). The weakest (Michigan State and Ohio State) are still much much higher than a school like Missouri or West Virginia. That's another reason why Notre Dame would be the best possible fit.
Minnesota's academics have actually been ranked the lowest of all the Big Ten schools the past few years, yes lower than MSU and OSU. Illinois's academics are actually probably in the top half.

Rankings would be:
Northwestern
Michigan
Wisconsin
Indiana
Purdue
Illinois
Penn State
Ohio State
Iowa
MSU
Minnesota

Sorry to burst your bubble man. I'm actually from the Minnesota area, never wanted to to to the U because the academics were generally regarded as poor outside of the state of Minnesota. Went to Wisconsin, had a great time, learned a lot.
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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I am Central Michigan's #1 fan, but their team is a joke. Their two biggest games in their history is last year Motor City Bowl win over Mid. Tenn and winning the Div 2 National Championship over Delaware back in 1974. Tell me how that compares to Northwestern's Rose Bowls or Michigan's history of being the winningest team in College Football.

Now basketball, is even a bigger joke. They had Chris Kaman on their team a couple of years ago and that is it. The rest are a bunch of nobodys.

Cincinnati has put some money towards their facilities and they are getting an excellent coach coming in.
Theyre an up and coming team?
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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Minnesota's academics have actually been ranked the lowest of all the Big Ten schools the past few years, yes lower than MSU and OSU. Illinois's academics are actually probably in the top half.

Rankings would be:
Northwestern
Michigan
Wisconsin
Indiana
Purdue
Illinois
Penn State
Ohio State
Iowa
MSU
Minnesota

Sorry to burst your bubble man. I'm actually from the Minnesota area, never wanted to to to the U because the academics were generally regarded as poor outside of the state of Minnesota. Went to Wisconsin, had a great time, learned a lot.
I'm getting my PhD at Minnesota, I'm talking about combining research and undergraduate academics (which I said in my original post). Either way, even going off of just undergraduate rankings your list is still wrong. But based on research Minnesota is second to only Michigan. I do this stuff for a living, I know what I'm talking about.
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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Minnesota's academics have actually been ranked the lowest of all the Big Ten schools the past few years, yes lower than MSU and OSU. Illinois's academics are actually probably in the top half.

Rankings would be:
Northwestern
Michigan
Wisconsin
Indiana
Purdue
Illinois
Penn State
Ohio State
Iowa
MSU
Minnesota

Sorry to burst your bubble man. I'm actually from the Minnesota area, never wanted to to to the U because the academics were generally regarded as poor outside of the state of Minnesota. Went to Wisconsin, had a great time, learned a lot.
Where do your rankings come from?
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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Ranking as a research university:
1)Michigan
2)Minnesota
3)Wisconsin
4)Illinois
5)Northwestern
6)Ohio State
7)Penn State
8)Purdue
9)Michigan State
10)Iowa
11)Indiana

Undergraduate Rankings
1)Northwestern
2)Michigan
3)Wisconsin
4)Illinois
5)Penn State
6)Ohio State
7)Purdue
8)Iowa
9)Minnesota
10)Indiana
11)Michigan State
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:32 PM    (permalink
jj45
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Niu should go the big ten
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:51 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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Btw, if you were to throw Missouri in there (as was the original argument) it would be last in both graduate and undergraduate work. The Big Ten is a very good conference academically, top to bottom probably the best of the BCS. I'm suprised Indiana is last myself, especially below Michigan State, but that says a lot for how quality all of those schools are.
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Old 07-27-2007, 01:03 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny View Post
Penn State recently won only 3 games. My point was solely that neither is on the level of an Ohio State or Michigan. Not even close.

Have you ever even seen South Florida play? They're the 2nd best team in Florida and a sure-fire top 25 team. They're really good.
What? South Florida had a good year, but 2nd best in Florida? Please, we will see this year
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Old 07-27-2007, 01:08 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
I understood your point, but that's like saying neither five dollars or a thousand dollars is a million dollars so they must be the same. Just because Penn State and Wisconsin aren't the programs that Ohio State and Michigan are doesn't mean Rutgers even belongs in the same sentence as them. Put Rutgers in the Big Ten and they are at best battling with Minnesota, Purdue, and Michigan State as the teams that sometimes sneak into 3rd or 4th.
Rutgers has much better recruiting bases than those teams. It's had much more success lately. History is irrelevant here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VY10 View Post
I'm sure all the kids down south and in California and Fla. would rather go to Rutgers because "it's a media darling" instead of getting to go to USC or Miami or any half decent football school...haha ya right.
Actually, yes, the Florida kids do want to go to Rutgers if they can't get an offer from the Big 3. Look at the recruits Rutgers has pulled in. They can beat anyone besides the Big 3 for a Florida kid. And Rutgers has pulled in the occasional player out of California. Ito had offers from Missouri, Texas A&M, Minnesota, and South Carolina. That's coming off a losing season. Things are going to explode now.

Quote:
Rutgers has no pull nationally. When your team has been to what? 2 bowl games in the schools entire history. Heck, going to 2 bowl games in a decade is pretty bad. Face it this Rutgers phenom is a couple of year deal. They soon will return to the depths of the league where they belong.
Rutgers draws by far the highest college football ratings of any team in NYC, a market ESPN/ABC desperately want to open up. The team was a major draw on ESPN last year and should be again.

Ask Army how having great football tradition is treating them. Fact is, until the eighties, Rutgers was a I-AA school in football. It regularly turned down bowl bids, and there weren't that many bowls to go around until recently. It wasn't terrible, just mediocre. It was only terrible for a few years under Terry Shea, before Schiano could rebuild the team.

Rutgers isn't going away. It just had its best recruiting year ever, pulling in Anthony Davis and Manny Abreu. They're going to fall to the bottom of the Big East? That's funny, who are they going to lose to, Syracuse? The sleeping giant has finally woken up.

No ones said they'd dominate the Big Ten, but their ball-control oriented philosophy with a top OL, Ray Rice, and an attacking defense fits the conference's stereotype to a tee.

Last edited by Jonny : 07-27-2007 at 04:44 AM.
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