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Old 07-29-2007, 12:05 PM    (permalink
BamaFalcon59
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Wow on the USC seasons with low wins. So what is their winning % since the 2001 season ended??
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Old 07-29-2007, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LSUALUM99 View Post
I get so utterly tired of the 'USC has 2 national championships' BullSh*t. They have Exactly ONE championship. LSU whipped OU, who before the KState game knew that no matter what the outcome they were going to the national title game so they tanked it, get over it. Prior to that game many people were saying OU was the best team EVER to play college football. LSU manhandled them the whole game.

LSU would have destroyed USC, OU would have destroyed them. USC's defense that year wasn't even ranked in the top 25!!! USC was a benefactor of a pushover schedule (hence the reason their strength of schedule is what kept them out of title contention at the end).
Yawn more LSU fans crying about USC. Stunning. Get over it man. USC had a nasty team, a team who had the majority of their players return the next season and throttle Oklahoma. You only beat OU by a touchdown, calm the hell down. No one would have destroyed USC, unless we go by your previous assessment that winning by one touchdown is manhandling a team. USC's team was sick and it would have been a great game with LSU. You guys split a national title, get over it. You got the crystal ball, they got the people's vote. So 1.5 NC it is.
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Old 07-29-2007, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59 View Post
Wow on the USC seasons with low wins. So what is their winning % since the 2001 season ended??
.907, which is absolutely ridiculous. The best team of the last 5 years is no debate, last 10 years though, different story. But it doesn't really matter because the way that list was done was pretty much the last 5 years and more of now than in the past.
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Old 07-29-2007, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by duckseason View Post
Wow. I wouldn't expect such a ridiculous post from such an intelligent guy. LSU would have destroyed SC? Ok. So why do we even play the games then? Let's just look at the spreads and declare the favorite as the winner. And I'm not so sure LSU would have been favored anyway. There were a ton of people who felt that SC was the best team in the country that year. It would be ridiculous for me to sit here and say either team "would have destroyed" the other. I just wanted to see the 2 best teams battle it out. We've missed out on that far too many times throughout CFB history. LSU was beastly as hell, and so was SC. I don't think either team would have "destroyed" the other. I think it would have been a great game.
Here's the reason I hold this opinion.

The Pac-10 is a an offense first, defense second league. It's all flash. It's all about the WR, QB, and RB in that league. Until the Pac-10 pushes towards a defensive style of football it won't be a premier league. The stats are there for their own games but when it comes down to Bowl Appearances against SEC, ACC or even to some extent Big-12 teams they won't win consistantly.

I have held the opinion that the ACC is underrated, the Big 10 is overrated and the Pac-10 is generally way overrated.

I do think that SC would have been destroyed by either OU or LSU that year. During the following year SC played a much better defense game and were a more well rounded team.

As to Sniper. LSU won the game by one touchdown. However, if you had watched the game or even looked at the stat lines you'd realize that LSU dominated in every fashion of the game and during the 4th quarter, while leading, 21-7 they played extremely conservatively. OU scored toward the end of the game in a meaningless "thank god I don't bet on the spreads" garbage touchdown. Anyone who ever points to a score to say it was close without having watched the game should rethink their 'expert eyes' label.
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Old 07-29-2007, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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LSU definitely dominated the entire game, completely owning Jason White, but it still wasn't a ridiculous game where you can say LSU definitely would have blown out USC. They dominated OU and won by a touchdown, I don't see how they would have blown out USC.
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Old 07-29-2007, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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Well since no one wants to respond, that is the record for USC before they began their dominance. That's 4 seasons of 6 wins or less. Anyone know how many Miami had? 1, and that was in 1997. So how is Miami not consistent?
ya, that i was thinking that before pete carroll came to usc, they went 35-35 and then once he came they went 50-0
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Old 07-29-2007, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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Here's the reason I hold this opinion.

The Pac-10 is a an offense first, defense second league. It's all flash. It's all about the WR, QB, and RB in that league. Until the Pac-10 pushes towards a defensive style of football it won't be a premier league. The stats are there for their own games but when it comes down to Bowl Appearances against SEC, ACC or even to some extent Big-12 teams they won't win consistantly.
Really? For every example you can find of a powerhouse beating a Pac-10 school, I can come back with a Pac-10 school beating a powerhouse. And many other regular season examples of Pac 10 legitimacy, such as Oregon State's visit to Death Valley. Remember that middle of the road Pac-10 team coming to your house and making your Tigers look tame? You're perpetuating a myth here. The Pac-10 has always been competitive with the very best the country has to offer. I've cited numerous examples here before, and I can do it again if you'd like. I wouldn't say that our 10 team conference is better than the ACC and SEC, but I would say that we are certainly competitive. I agree the SEC is the class of the country, and I always give them their due respect.

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I have held the opinion that the ACC is underrated, the Big 10 is overrated and the Pac-10 is generally way overrated.
Hmm. Interesting. Way overrated? By who? Certainly not the national media. Certainly not the folks in your neighborhood. Who in the world overrates the Pac-10? Pac-10 fans who demand that due respect be given to their conference? You really believe that we don't have some of the best talent in the nation out here? You think kids in Louisiana run faster than kids in California? You think we don't have great coaches out here? How in the heck can the Pac-10 possibly be overrated?

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I do think that SC would have been destroyed by either OU or LSU that year. During the following year SC played a much better defense game and were a more well rounded team.
Well, you're obviously entitled to your opinion, but who's defense was it that shutout perennial SEC powerhouse Auburn that year, 23-0? It wasn't an SEC or ACC team that gave SC it's only loss that year, it was another PAC-10 school, Cal. There was good reason for SC being ranked #1 heading into the post season that year. I agree that both OU and LSU had great teams as well, but it will always remain a mystery as to who was truly the better team between LSU and SC. That fact can't be argued. Yeah, LSU handled OU. But that was a pretty sloppy game. Much more sloppy than the SC/Michigan contest. More turnovers and much more penalties in the Sugar Bowl that year (5/2 and 19/5). Also, SC sacked John Navarre 9 times. But hey, that defense was garbage.

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As to Sniper. LSU won the game by one touchdown. However, if you had watched the game or even looked at the stat lines you'd realize that LSU dominated in every fashion of the game and during the 4th quarter, while leading, 21-7 they played extremely conservatively. OU scored toward the end of the game in a meaningless "thank god I don't bet on the spreads" garbage touchdown. Anyone who ever points to a score to say it was close without having watched the game should rethink their 'expert eyes' label.
Again, that game was pretty sloppy. And OU's thrashing at the hands of K-State cannot be forgotten or minimized. No way can you sit here and convince anybody that they went out there and threw that game. I watched it. K-State just came out with tons of fire and just wanted it more. They just plain whipped OU's ass. Give them credit, and realize that the team you guys beat in the BCS may not have been as great as people previously thought. Oh, and if OU really did tank that game like you seem to believe, then that's an indictment against their validity as a legitimate power. Doesn't really help your argument.

You want to talk about weak conferences and schedules, take a look at OU's slate that year. You'll never see a PAC-10 team thrash another by 77 points. See, out here anybody can beat anybody with the current exception of Stanford. Look no further than what happened to SC during their PAC-10 calendar last year. Losses to OSU and UCLA reflect the overall depth and strength of this conference. As do close calls against Washington, Washington St., Arizona, Arizona St. and Cal. 7 of 9 conference opponents either beat, or put a legitimate scare into the conference's best team. The bottom line is that your lack of respect for the Pac-10 is unwarranted. You could make a much better case for the Big-11 being vastly overrated. See, for someone to be overrated, they must be rated highly in the first place, and then they must fall short of those lofty expectations. That's something that's never really happened out west.
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Old 07-29-2007, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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Margin of victory is a pretty lousy way to compare two different teams. Circumstances as well as the crowd and atmosphere, and matchups most of all make some teams beat other teams by lots more, and others by lots less. It's especially pointless when comparing two teams from 2 different seasons. LSU beat Oklahoma in 2003, an Oklahoma team that was clearly better than the Michigan team that USC beat that year in their own city, a Michigan team coming off a blowout loss to their rival, who was ranked considerably lower :). I think LSU would've beaten SC in 2003 or at least made it really close, SC wasn't as good that year as they were in 04 or 05. And I still think that Auburn with that defense and the trio of Campbell/Williams/Brown would've beaten USC in 2004. That way we'd be talking about SC's 0 NCs instead of their 1.5. But that's all hypothetical, SC is definitely the best team of the last 5 years.
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Old 07-29-2007, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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Margin of victory is a pretty lousy way to compare two different teams. Circumstances as well as the crowd and atmosphere, and matchups most of all make some teams beat other teams by lots more, and others by lots less. It's especially pointless when comparing two teams from 2 different seasons. LSU beat Oklahoma in 2003, an Oklahoma team that was clearly better than the Michigan team that USC beat that year in their own city, a Michigan team coming off a blowout loss to their rival, who was ranked considerably lower :). I think LSU would've beaten SC in 2003 or at least made it really close, SC wasn't as good that year as they were in 04 or 05. And I still think that Auburn with that defense and the trio of Campbell/Williams/Brown would've beaten USC in 2004. That way we'd be talking about SC's 0 NCs instead of their 1.5. But that's all hypothetical, SC is definitely the best team of the last 5 years.
Not sure what your point is. You didn't really make one. I know I'm not comparing teams from different seasons here. Also, about SC playing the bowl game in their home city, where do you think the Sugar Bowl is played? As for margin of victory, when you have patsies in your conference that are constantly being blown out by the upper tier teams, that exposes weakness. I'm pointing out that this seems to happen much more often in conferences other than the Pac-10. The fact that every single Pac-10 team has either won or tied for the conference championship at least once in the last 14 years speaks volumes about the incredible parity we enjoy out here.
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Old 07-29-2007, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Well since no one wants to respond, that is the record for USC before they began their dominance. That's 4 seasons of 6 wins or less. Anyone know how many Miami had? 1, and that was in 1997. So how is Miami not consistent?
so thankful that the U has draftguru to post the facts. people are so focused on right now and quickly forget the past. The U, although it may be on a down, that down isn't all that terrible and still does a good job. they deserve higher their rank.

and i must add, the USC has 2 championships makes me sick also. so does their reactions to losing to Vince Young in the other year (leinart more specifically). not a fan of USC
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Old 07-29-2007, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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Duckseason,

Let me clarify my position on the Pac-10 as you seem to have misunderstood what I was trying to say (to be fair, I wasn't overly clear either). I believe the Pac-10 is in many ways similar to the Big-12. By that I mean that in any one year 1-2 two teams are good/great. However, the teams that are good/great are typically a function of a couple of standout players versus a very strong program with a philosophy designed to be constitantly great.

In general, teams that rely on star players go from great to average quickly. This is consistant with UCLA or OSU or Oregon or whomever to occasionally have a stellar season. USC up until a few years ago was in that 'rut'. They'd have to wait for a Rodney Peete every few years to be a very good team.

I also think this is why teams like Miami, FSU, tOSU, and Florida are consistantly great teams. They typically have Defense as their backbone (despite the Spurrier offense or the Hurricane RB/QB dujor). I think until the Pac-10 teams adopt the philosphy of defense first they won't be a consistant power house conference.

I stand by the fact that going into the KSU game OU had nothing to gain by winning. They had the BCS championship game locked up before the game even started. I live in Dallas, heart of the Big-12 with way more sooner fans than I'd like to live around. All I hear about daily is OU this and UofT that. Alot of talk around the area was that going into that game that OU was probably going to come out flat.

That all being said. USC has been the best team over the past 5 years. I don't have a problem with that. They also seem to be very concerned with developing a top tier defense and this year they may be better than any of the previous 5 years. But, they do not deserve to get this B.S. 2003 National Championship anymore than Auburn could claim the 2004 National Championship.
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Old 07-29-2007, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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Except for the fact that USC won 55-19 and not 21-14 in their NC. Did USC win the BCS championship game? No, but they didn't get the trophy for that, they were voted to as the AP national champions, so if you agree with it or not they did win a national championship.
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Old 07-29-2007, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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Either way no matter how much LSU fans cry we still have two Titles hundreds, thousands, millions of years from now people will say USC and LSU shared that Title like what Nebraska and Michigan did in 1997. As of right now we have 11 National Championships. Not 10.5 or 10 we have 11.
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Old 07-30-2007, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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I like this blurb from cfn's SEC preview.

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Of all the national champions since Florida State won in 1993 (remember that only the BCS champions count in our new world…sorry USC of 2003), only three finished with a loss. Take a wild stab at which league produced those three; yes, the SEC (1995 Florida, 2003 LSU, and 2006 Florida). You can understand why Auburn fans are still angry after their unbeaten team got left out in the cold in 2004. The SEC has proven time and again that when given the chance, it shines through on the highest stage.
And yes I know USC beat Auburn the year before but I don't think they wouldn't have beat that undefeated 04' Auburn team. They got lucky and dodged the SEC champ two years in a row 03 LSU and 04 Auburn.
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Old 07-30-2007, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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55-19

I think it's more like Auburn got lucky so at least they could think about the NC and get a bowl win instead of getting throttled in the national championship.
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Old 07-30-2007, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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55-19
I'm not sure what 03 Auburn has to do with 04 Auburn. Different squads. I believe that 04 Auburn team had 4 1st rounders and USC had 1 or none that year. I stand by my statement that USC is lucky they didn't have to play Auburn and instead got to face Jason White.
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Old 07-30-2007, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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That's the score of the USC/OU NC. Auburn wouldn't have stood a chance that day.
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Old 07-30-2007, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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Auburn Wins:
LSU 10-9
at Tennessee 34-10
Arkansas 38-20
Georgia 35-14
atBama 21-13
Tennessee (Conf Champ game) 38-28

USC
Virginia Tech 24-13
at Stanford 31-28
California 23-17
Arizona State 45-7
at UCLA 29-24
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Old 07-30-2007, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Well then that's even more absurd. I really don't see what 04 OU has to do with 04 Auburn. You do realise those are two different teams, right?

We'll never know who would have won because they didn't get the chance to play.
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Old 07-30-2007, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by constant cough View Post
I'm not sure what 03 Auburn has to do with 04 Auburn. Different squads. I believe that 04 Auburn team had 4 1st rounders and USC had 1 or none that year. I stand by my statement that USC is lucky they didn't have to play Auburn and instead got to face Jason White.
People put too much emphasis on players drafted as a basis of how well a team is. If draft status is so important than why didn't the 05' NC State team play like one of the best teams in the nation. I think many people would agree that Auburn should have played USC instead of Oklahoma, but to say that they would have out right won is just wrong.
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Old 07-30-2007, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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It has everything to do with 04 USC, they put up 55 points, it wouldn't have mattered who they played, they completely dominated that game in every way, Bush and White, Leinart, Jarrett and Smith, as well as the defense. I don't think Auburn would have lost 55-19, but I don't think they would have had a chance.
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Old 07-30-2007, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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I never said that Auburn would have outright beat USC. What I said was that USC was lucky they didn't have to play Auburn that year.

Auburn was alot better than Oklahoma that year.


Quote:
Auburn Wins:
LSU 10-9
at Tennessee 34-10
Arkansas 38-20
Georgia 35-14
atBama 21-13
Tennessee (Conf Champ game) 38-28



USC
Virginia Tech 24-13
at Stanford 31-28
California 23-17
Arizona State 45-7
at UCLA 29-24
Exactly.
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Old 07-30-2007, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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QB: Matt Leinart v Jason Campbell
RB: Reggie Bush, Lendale White v Caddilac WIlliams, ROnnie Brown
Anyone know the rest of each team's roster?
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Old 07-30-2007, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Turtlepower View Post
People put too much emphasis on players drafted as a basis of how well a team is. If draft status is so important than why didn't the 05' NC State team play like one of the best teams in the nation. I think many people would agree that Auburn should have played USC instead of Oklahoma, but to say that they would have out right won is just wrong.
Yea, I didn't see his argument about the draft picks before, USC's entire offense (other than maybe the TE) was drafted. The defense had Lofa, Patterson, Cody, Wright, Bing.
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Old 07-30-2007, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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Well neko4's argument was better in comparing scores. Going through the SEC undefeated is more impressive than going through the Pac 10 undefeated anyway you slice it.

Anyway like I said we'll never know.
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