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Old 11-18-2008, 01:20 AM    (permalink
A Perfect Score
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Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck View Post
Leger's Joker is a pretty unique situation. All those other villians were the only representations of that character, or at least the first. Heath Ledger gave one of the more interesting and dynamic presentations of a character that's been around since 1940. He's changed the character irrevocably.

On top of that, Lector and Vader got multiple movies.
He put on a great performance, but he certainly didnt change everything there was about the Joker. And it wasnt all Ledger. Give credit to people like Alan Moore, who wrote the Killing Joke, which practically personified the Joker ledger played. I know that it was Ledger who brought it to life, but it certainly wasnt HIM doing all of the creative work. Also, credit has to be given to people like Chris and John Nolan, and David S Goyer, for both telling Ledger how they wanted the role played and writing his dialogue for him. Ultimately, I know the performance was Ledger, but just because we had never seen THAT joker on screen before, didnt mean he didnt exist in the comics.

And I agree that while the other two got multiple movies, if not for tragedy, The Joker would have gotten multiple as well...

it is a unique situation, and I understand the outstanding performance that was put on, but I also think that there is alot of source material that is there that is equal to what guys like Hopkins had to work with for Lector.

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Ray Stevenson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Jane

Im a huge fan of continuity in a series...nothing annoys me more then seeing an actor/actress switched mid series, even if it is an improvement...and Tommy Jane did a decent job with the first punisher, why mess with a good thing? Give tommy jigsaw to work with in the next one and see what happens...ray stevenson just doesnt do it for me as the punisher.
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:06 AM    (permalink
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You tell me where that Joker is in the comic books. I've read The Killing Joke, and while it's a great comic book it's a totally classic if slightly perverse side of the Joker. Moore perhaps gave a depth to the relationship between Batman and Joker that was heavily present in The Dark Knight, but there's no way his Joker played too heavy an influence in the role.

I stand by my statement. The latest movies take on ther Joker has forever changed the way people will approach the character. I'm not saying everyone will from here on out copy Ledger's portrayal, but it was such a drastic and unique perspective of the villain that no one can ignore it.

As for crediting the directors and writers, where did I ever say that Ledger deserved all the credit. We're not discussing which people influenced Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs or James Earl Jones in Star Wars. We're talking about the end result.
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:53 AM    (permalink
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You tell me where that Joker is in the comic books. I've read The Killing Joke, and while it's a great comic book it's a totally classic if slightly perverse side of the Joker. Moore perhaps gave a depth to the relationship between Batman and Joker that was heavily present in The Dark Knight, but there's no way his Joker played too heavy an influence in the role.

I stand by my statement. The latest movies take on ther Joker has forever changed the way people will approach the character. I'm not saying everyone will from here on out copy Ledger's portrayal, but it was such a drastic and unique perspective of the villain that no one can ignore it.

As for crediting the directors and writers, where did I ever say that Ledger deserved all the credit. We're not discussing which people influenced Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs or James Earl Jones in Star Wars. We're talking about the end result.

Well, in the "A Death in The Family" story arc, the Joker beats Robin to a pulp with a crowbar and leaves him in a warehouse with a bomb to be blown to smithereens...I think thats a strong departure from the classic "Clown Prince of Crime" Joker and is more along the lines of the Heath Ledger Joker, dont you think?

Im not trying to detract from the performance; it was a stunning piece of work, and it did revolution the way this generation views the Joker. That said, just becuase this generation no longer views the Joker this way, doesnt mean he wasnt always floating around the comics.

And I know you said that The Killing Joke didnt play a huge role in influencing Ledger, but Nolan handed Ledger the comic on the first day of filming...clearly, Nolan saw something in the comics that he wanted Ledger to put into this "new" Joker.

Again, you can call me an elitist, but it bothers me when a great performance like Ledger gave is overhyped and turned into some sort of trend by the people out there who havent SEEN any of these other great villains in movies. I clearly put Ledger in my top 5 villains of all time, and it isnt just you im going off on (because clearly you know more about this then most, having read The Killing Joke), but it frustrates me when people take something like this and turn it into something else. Maybe thats just me.
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Old 11-18-2008, 06:26 AM    (permalink
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Again, you can call me an elitist, but it bothers me when a great performance like Ledger gave is overhyped and turned into some sort of trend by the people out there who havent SEEN any of these other great villains in movies. I clearly put Ledger in my top 5 villains of all time, and it isnt just you im going off on (because clearly you know more about this then most, having read The Killing Joke), but it frustrates me when people take something like this and turn it into something else. Maybe thats just me.
Not to be blunt but Heath died and his performance got put on a pedestal. Yes, it was a good job on his part but top 5 villains of all time? I can't say I agree with you there.
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Old 11-18-2008, 06:43 AM    (permalink
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On a better note, I don't know how it took me so long to see The Professional, but I just saw it this weekend. WOW, what an amazing movie. Talk about amazing acting by a 14 year-old because Natalie Portman may have done one of the best child actings I've ever seen.
You should be slapped for not having seen that movie sooner, don't make me find Mr. Queermo.

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Gary Oldman > Everyone else in that movie. He has to be one of the top villains of all time.
Oldman was incredible, although I loved Reno in that one. That said I'm a pretty big Reno fan. Oldman's just a good villain, I mean he was ******* awesome in the 5th element which was a very bland action film.

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Nurse Ratchet.

The baddie from T2.
Nurse Ratchet was a great villain.
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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Nurse Ratchet bothered me in every scene she was in. My drama class did the entire play and she was way worse when reading through the script of the play then she was in the movie. As for the Heaths Joker, I found it to be special because never once through the movie i thought "this is ledger as the joker" i was just tuned into the Joker. Any actor that can play a role so well that you dont even think about whos playing it is something special in my book. Im not saying he had the greatest performance of al time because that would be ignorant, but yes it was a great performance regardless of who helped him take on the role.
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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Not to be blunt but Heath died and his performance got put on a pedestal. Yes, it was a good job on his part but top 5 villains of all time? I can't say I agree with you there.
++, his performance is terribly overrated, like the movie.
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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++, his performance is terribly overrated, like the movie.
no way! Heath was crazy good! BOOOOO!
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Old 11-18-2008, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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++, his performance is terribly overrated, like the movie.
Your sig is overrated! The Joker was awesome and the movie was also quite awesome. You're hating just to hate. Get off my message board and come up with a username that doesn't rip off a super hero's original identity.. I will hate you for the rest of my life.
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Old 11-18-2008, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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Your sig is overrated! The Joker was awesome and the movie was also quite awesome. You're hating just to hate. Get off my message board and come up with a username that doesn't rip off a super hero's original identity.. I will hate you for the rest of my life.
I'm hating because it was 30 minutes too long and Christian Bale would be drawing universal yawns if people weren't so preoccupied with the cluster **** going on.
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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I'm hating because it was 30 minutes too long and Christian Bale would be drawing universal yawns if people weren't so preoccupied with the cluster **** going on.
see you keep saying that it was a cluster **** but what is that. Why was it a cluster ****.
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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see you keep saying that it was a cluster **** but what is that. Why was it a cluster ****.
Trying to fit too much into one movie, or one half of the movie I should say. Establishing Dent then trying to make him evil and then trying to kill him off. Trying to show Joker's crazy and make him form some connection with two face. The completely realistic ( ) technology that M. Freeman (I don't know his character name) pulls out of his ass. Just a terrible way to try to end the film. They just ****** the second half up, badly.

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Old 11-18-2008, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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I'm hating because it was 30 minutes too long and Christian Bale would be drawing universal yawns if people weren't so preoccupied with the cluster **** going on.
If they cut it people would ***** about them not tying the story together. Dark Knight had more hype then any movie in the past 5 years and it surpassed the hype. The Dark Knight is just easy to hate because people treat it like Godfather with super heroes and Fight Club with the joker.
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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Dark Knight had more hype then any movie in the past 5 years and it surpassed the hype. The Dark Knight is just easy to hate because people treat it like Godfather with super heroes and Fight Club with the joker.
Bolded. Yes, to casual movie goers it was spectacular. But that's why you're casual.

The Dark Knight cannot touch Godfather. What a joke of a comparison.
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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I agree the Dark Knight was better early on than in the last forty five minutes. I didn't like the cellular technolegy/ sonar thing and Two Face dieing was lame.

But it was still awesome. And even if it wasn't as deep as some movies, I still enjoyed so much. For me movies are about enjoyment, and the Dark Knight provided plenty of it.
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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Well they did actually end up establishing alot of what you said they tried to do. Dent had all the motive to become evil when Rachel died and the Jokers connection wasnt really the plot but revolved around him trying to do the opposite of what Batman had done, namely rip Gotham apart. I mean its a pretty easy movie to understand and none of that felt forced to me or alot of other of my firends who feel the same way, maybe you the average movie goer? hahaha and he wasnt comparing it to the godfather, he said people were comparing it to the godfather which is why it was getting criticism.
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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Bolded. Yes, to casual movie goers it was spectacular. But that's why you're casual.
What an arrogant statement, considering a vast number of critics gave it four stars or whatever their highest score was.
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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Bruce ur taking ur opinion and trying to force people to believe its true to others, if people think the movie is awesome then let them. Just because u think its the most overrated thing ever doesnt mean it is, u dont need to be arrogant about it.
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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I too felt that the movie was a bit too long, but they managaed to fit a lot into it, which was decent. The ending did kind of suck with Dent dying the way he did but they needed to end the movie somehow. I was initially under the impression that Two Face was going to be the villian in the next movie but then he was killed off before it ended. IMO, they could have set up Two Face to be in the next movie instead of dragging this one on forever. All that said, it was an awesome movie and provided tons of enjoyment.
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:58 PM    (permalink
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What an arrogant statement, considering a vast number of critics gave it four stars or whatever their highest score was.
I totally agree, i have more respect for people whose favorite movies arent on IMDBs top 10 then people who just throw out those movie names that are considered the best of all time just to prove they are movie masterminds and can talk down to anyone who disagrees with them.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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Old 11-18-2008, 06:00 PM    (permalink
Bruce Banner
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My favorite movie has a 7.8 on IMDB.
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Old 11-18-2008, 06:00 PM    (permalink
HChu
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I just watched Role Models, and seriously it's amazing. Any movie that includes LARPing is always a good romp. I have to say out of the Big 3 comedies so far (Tropic, Pineapple, and Z&M) I'd probably put it ahead of all of them. There was just something about it that I really loved. Ken Jeong is the greatest comedic actor in the history of Earth, and Bobb'e J. Thompson was brilliant with his one-liners. Oh, and some might be wondering about The Wrestler. It was glorious the Q&A with Aronfosky was great (made better by the appearance of the gorgeous Marissa Tomei). That is all.
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Old 11-18-2008, 06:04 PM    (permalink
Primetime21
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Bolded. Yes, to casual movie goers it was spectacular. But that's why you're casual.

The Dark Knight cannot touch Godfather. What a joke of a comparison.
The Dark Knight is just easy to hate because people treat it like Godfather with super heroes and Fight Club with the joker.

Thank you for proving my point. It seems the only true reason people dislike the movie is because it is so popular/loved and is being compared to classics. I guess we are all just not on your level and are blind to the numerous faults of this movie. So sorry, looks like us simple minded movie goers will just have to stay home and watch Epic/Date/Blah movie over and over again.
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players intsimy latieres are sutpdi. the players areat all unituw/ o dpmt ebem aer about wat the lpater aare calling themeslves of whatever, terhera will Its sutpid/ neever be anothe said playerm. rscj p;syhyrt uniyeee, snf rhyrtrgotr, each player autntiwue for each syste,. /
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Old 11-18-2008, 06:06 PM    (permalink
Bruce Banner
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The Dark Knight is just easy to hate because people treat it like Godfather with super heroes and Fight Club with the joker.

Thank you for proving my point. It seems the only true reason people dislike the movie is because it is so popular/loved and is being compared to classics. I guess we are all just not on your level and are blind to the numerous faults of this movie. So sorry, looks like us simple minded movie goers will just have to stay home and watch Epic/Date/Blah movie over and over again.
I judge it on the same scale any other movie is judged on.

The Dark Knight just doesn't measure up to The Godfather on that scale.

I am confused about what is being argued here.....

The Dark Knight was phenomenal by today's standards, and zomg by people that haven't developed their catalog, but falls short of the all-time greats. (which like you said, many people are saying it is as good as)

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Old 11-18-2008, 06:09 PM    (permalink
hobbes2053
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I have to say out of the Big 3 comedies so far (Tropic, Pineapple, and Z&M) I'd probably put it ahead of all of them.
Pineapple Express and Z&M were better IMO.

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