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Old 07-29-2007, 09:44 PM    (permalink
BamaFalcon59
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Default PJ Hill

Anyone watch this guy a lot? I love the production and size, but haven't seen him play outside of the Wisconsin-Arkansas game, in which he didn't do too well. Wondering if he has speed/ athleticism (for his size) and vision to be a good prospect.
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Old 07-29-2007, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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Anyone watch this guy a lot? I love the production and size, but haven't seen him play outside of the Wisconsin-Arkansas game, in which he didn't do too well. Wondering if he has speed/ athleticism (for his size) and vision to be a good prospect.
Eh, I don't think so. He seems to fit the mold of the great Badger backs before him. He's a beast in college, but I'm not sure if he can carry his success over to the pros.
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Old 07-29-2007, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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agreed... even being the huge UW fan that I am.. he's kinda like Ron Dayne in a way I guess
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Old 07-29-2007, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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agreed... even being the huge UW fan that I am.. he's kinda like Ron Dayne in a way I guess
Exactly, he's Ron Dayne version 2.0
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Old 07-29-2007, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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Well, that's disappointing. He's still doing good for himself though, Rivals had him as a 2 star prospect and now he's a big time college player and at least will get drafted in all likelihood (sp).
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Old 07-29-2007, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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Well, that's disappointing. He's still doing good for himself though, Rivals had him as a 2 star prospect and now he's a big time college player and at least will get drafted in all likelihood (sp).

He'll get drafted once he's done with school but I think NFL teams will be a bit more hesitant to select him given his similarities to Dayne
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Old 07-29-2007, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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He didn't do well against a couple of good teams, like Arkansas and Michigan. He's slow but I could see him being a poor man's Jamal Lewis (old school)
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Old 07-29-2007, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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Well, that's disappointing. He's still doing good for himself though, Rivals had him as a 2 star prospect and now he's a big time college player and at least will get drafted in all likelihood (sp).
He probably fits the 2-4th round range. I think he could go as high as late-middle of the second round.
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Old 07-30-2007, 12:34 AM    (permalink
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Exactly, he's Ron Dayne version 2.0
i think he is similar to dayne in the fact he is huge... but he is numble on his feet and i think he will surprise.. i really belive he is far mosre athletic than dayne ever was
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Old 07-30-2007, 04:21 AM    (permalink
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i hate player school comparisons bringing down prospects ala penn state with LJ. i really think you need to evaluate players based on production against elite comp as opposed to a beefy RB from a decade ago
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Old 07-30-2007, 08:50 AM    (permalink
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i hate player school comparisons bringing down prospects ala penn state with LJ. i really think you need to evaluate players based on production against elite comp as opposed to a beefy RB from a decade ago
I disagree. First, the Penn St RB theory was junk to begin with. The failure of their RB's had a lot more to do with injuries than the school they came from and pro scouts and GM's knew that. It was just unknowledgable fans who believed it. However, the Spurrier WR theory and the Tedford QB theory are sound and believe me pro scouts and GM's are very wary of the players who play those positions for those HC's. That's why Rice fell to round 2.
The reason the theory is sound in a lot of instances, is because each spring college HC's put their best freshmen in certain positions. Over the years, pro scouts and GM's come to know where college HC's put their best freshmen. The longer you are a college HC, the more obvious it becomes where you place your better players.
In Hill's case, I think the comparison to past RB's is irrelevant because Wisconsin has a new HC and nobody knows his tendancies just yet. The comparison has absolutely nothing to do with the school and everything to do with the HC. Pro scouts and GM's will judge Hill on his merrit until such time as the new Wisconsin HC shows his tendancies,
Don't get me wrong, Rice had his opportunities in the post season to prove he was worth a 1st round pick and not just another Spurrier WR, but he would have had to prove that to pro scouts and GM's before they'd draft him in round 1 and he failed the test.
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Old 07-30-2007, 09:07 AM    (permalink
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Definitely a guy who will get drafted, but he's not quite starting material at the next level. I could see him being a situational guy, he is quite a pounder
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Old 07-30-2007, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Definitely a guy who will get drafted, but he's not quite starting material at the next level. I could see him being a situational guy, he is quite a pounder
He isn't necessarily a power back though. That's where the Dayne comparison comes in, he doesn't run as you would expect for his size.
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Old 07-30-2007, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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i think he is similar to dayne in the fact he is huge... but he is numble on his feet and i think he will surprise.. i really belive he is far mosre athletic than dayne ever was
That was Dayne's whole problem though. He didn't run like a big back, with power. He tried to dance through holes. He thought he had speed or was shifty. That's why I see a similiarity with Hill and Dayne. They run very similiarly.
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Old 07-30-2007, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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I disagree. First, the Penn St RB theory was junk to begin with. The failure of their RB's had a lot more to do with injuries than the school they came from and pro scouts and GM's knew that. It was just unknowledgable fans who believed it. However, the Spurrier WR theory and the Tedford QB theory are sound and believe me pro scouts and GM's are very wary of the players who play those positions for those HC's. That's why Rice fell to round 2.
The reason the theory is sound in a lot of instances, is because each spring college HC's put their best freshmen in certain positions. Over the years, pro scouts and GM's come to know where college HC's put their best freshmen. The longer you are a college HC, the more obvious it becomes where you place your better players.
In Hill's case, I think the comparison to past RB's is irrelevant because Wisconsin has a new HC and nobody knows his tendancies just yet. The comparison has absolutely nothing to do with the school and everything to do with the HC. Pro scouts and GM's will judge Hill on his merrit until such time as the new Wisconsin HC shows his tendancies,
Don't get me wrong, Rice had his opportunities in the post season to prove he was worth a 1st round pick and not just another Spurrier WR, but he would have had to prove that to pro scouts and GM's before they'd draft him in round 1 and he failed the test.
I read that a couple times and still don't understand what your tryin to say.
What do coaches putting there best freshman on the field have to do with P.J. Hill being compared to previous Wisconsin backs and his pro potential?
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Old 07-30-2007, 08:09 PM    (permalink
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I read that a couple times and still don't understand what your tryin to say.
What do coaches putting there best freshman on the field have to do with P.J. Hill being compared to previous Wisconsin backs and his pro potential?
Coaches, not schools, lead to bad pro fits.

Wisconsin hires Jeff Tedford (example). UCLA hires Norm Chow (example). A QB excels at Wisconsin, but he is drafted lower than a normer player of his caliber due to fears about his production coming from Jeff Tedford's system.

A QB now excels at UCLA, and he is drafted high as expected. Because teams are no longer fearful that the production is purely due to Tedford's system.

It's like Hawaii. Is it going to Hawaii that gives Brennan the negative that Timmy Chang put up big numbers there too? No, it is the system he plays in under June Jones. If another coach with a different QB past was hired then the fear would likely go away.
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Old 07-30-2007, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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That was Dayne's whole problem though. He didn't run like a big back, with power. He tried to dance through holes. He thought he had speed or was shifty. That's why I see a similiarity with Hill and Dayne. They run very similiarly.
Yup. Dayne's actually very athletic for his size. That's why he dominated in college. However, once he stepped onto a playing field everybody else was as fast/faster than him, he failed. Why? Because he thinks he's Warrick Dunn. It's the same problem that Lendale White and Michael Bush will face in the pros.

I'm sorry, but I hate big backs that think they're scatbacks. You've got a big body. ******* use it.
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Old 07-30-2007, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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watch him every saturday hes the sh***t
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Old 07-30-2007, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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Yup. Dayne's actually very athletic for his size. That's why he dominated in college. However, once he stepped onto a playing field everybody else was as fast/faster than him, he failed. Why? Because he thinks he's Warrick Dunn. It's the same problem that Lendale White and Michael Bush will face in the pros.

I'm sorry, but I hate big backs that think they're scatbacks. You've got a big body. ******* use it.
Unfortunately you don't find many 240 plus pound backs who actually pound the rock now adays.
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Old 07-30-2007, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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Coaches, not schools, lead to bad pro fits.

Wisconsin hires Jeff Tedford (example). UCLA hires Norm Chow (example). A QB excels at Wisconsin, but he is drafted lower than a normer player of his caliber due to fears about his production coming from Jeff Tedford's system.

A QB now excels at UCLA, and he is drafted high as expected. Because teams are no longer fearful that the production is purely due to Tedford's system.

It's like Hawaii. Is it going to Hawaii that gives Brennan the negative that Timmy Chang put up big numbers there too? No, it is the system he plays in under June Jones. If another coach with a different QB past was hired then the fear would likely go away.
I couldn't disagree more with you. I dont think the HC has much to do with it as much as the Program Prestige itself. Tell me something. If you hear of two LB's, one from Arkansas State and the other from Penn State who would you want without even knowing thier names or stats? Obviously the Penn State player. Personally I think that Jared Zabransky is a better QB and a better prospect than Troy Smith, yet Zabransky didnt even get drafted, while Smith went in the 5th round. Any reasons? Perhaps because Smith went to Ohio State and won the Heisman while Zabransky went to Boise State. Still, I think that even if Smith didnt win the Heisman he would still be higher than others.

In the end, to me it seems as though a schools prestige and history has more to do with it than the schools head coach.
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Old 07-30-2007, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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I couldn't disagree more with you. I dont think the HC has much to do with it as much as the Program Prestige itself. Tell me something. If you hear of two LB's, one from Arkansas State and the other from Penn State who would you want without even knowing thier names or stats? Obviously the Penn State player. Personally I think that Jared Zabransky is a better QB and a better prospect than Troy Smith, yet Zabransky didnt even get drafted, while Smith went in the 5th round. Any reasons? Perhaps because Smith went to Ohio State and won the Heisman while Zabransky went to Boise State. Still, I think that even if Smith didnt win the Heisman he would still be higher than others.

In the end, to me it seems as though a schools prestige and history has more to do with it than the schools head coach.
A) I'd want the PSU LB because PSU pumps out LB like Lindsay Lohan pumps out arrests.
B) I'd still want Troy Smith. Other than Florida where he never had time to throw, Troy proved himself as a clutch big game player (3-0 vs. Michigan, beating Texas @ Texas, etc...) Smith is a damn good QB and one of the later round prospects whom I think will eventually be very good. Jared Zabransky is NOT a better QB than Troy.
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Old 07-31-2007, 12:11 AM    (permalink
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A) I'd want the PSU LB because PSU pumps out LB like Lindsay Lohan pumps out arrests.
B) I'd still want Troy Smith. Other than Florida where he never had time to throw, Troy proved himself as a clutch big game player (3-0 vs. Michigan, beating Texas @ Texas, etc...) Smith is a damn good QB and one of the later round prospects whom I think will eventually be very good. Jared Zabransky is NOT a better QB than Troy.
lol, well I only used Zabransky because I have heard some say he was a better prospect than Troy Smith. But thats a different debate. But you see my point of how much I think a program and its prestige has over the HC.
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Old 07-31-2007, 12:20 AM    (permalink
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lol, well I only used Zabransky because I have heard some say he was a better prospect than Troy Smith. But thats a different debate. But you see my point of how much I think a program and its prestige has over the HC.
I do. But sometimes you hit a lot with certain players from certain schools, I.E DBs from Ohio State, WR from Michigan, everyone in the late early 2000s from Miami....
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Old 07-31-2007, 12:24 AM    (permalink
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That wasn't his point though, his point is the system those coaches run make the players seem better than they really are. Also a player will never be purely drafted over someone else just because the school they are at. The points you used were terribly because one, PSU and Arkansas State play at completely different levels, and two there aren't many people (if any) who actually know what they're talking about and had Z as a better prospect than Smith. You put Dan Connor on Arkansas State and and one of their LBs on PSU and Connor will be taken first.
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Old 07-31-2007, 12:46 AM    (permalink
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That wasn't his point though, his point is the system those coaches run make the players seem better than they really are. Also a player will never be purely drafted over someone else just because the school they are at. The points you used were terribly because one, PSU and Arkansas State play at completely different levels, and two there aren't many people (if any) who actually know what they're talking about and had Z as a better prospect than Smith. You put Dan Connor on Arkansas State and and one of their LBs on PSU and Connor will be taken first.
No way bro. You just contradicted(sp?) yourself. First you say that you cant compare a LB from Ark State with a PSU LB, then you go to say that if Connor was on Ark State he would go ahead of an Ark State LB on PSU. Come on, make up your mind. Theres no way. As good as Connor is, if he played 4 years at Ark State, against the sun belt or CUSA-wherever they are- he still wouldnt be looked upon that highly. We all know it.

Also your point about a player being drafted based on his school over another kids school could be true. Explain to me how Leon Hall went higher than Usama Young? Ive heard that Young oul be better than Hall. But let me get something here. You are arguing that even though someone goes to a small school that wouldnt matter. Obviously it does matter. It goes the same for QB from USC. How does Matt Cassel get drafted after starting 1 game at SC? He may have had good mechanics and what not, but the fact stil remains that he went to a school known for producing QB's.
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