Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Pro Football

Pro Football Discuss professional football.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-11-2007, 07:22 PM    (permalink
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: KO-V>O-V
Posts: 14,841
Reputation: 1045649
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frogstomp
I don't see why the word bust is even being mentioned in this thread... Williams has only played one year, and had some injury issues as well.

He's had a lot of moments where he has lookedlike he will become another dominant DE.

Just like Reggie's had moments where he looks like a dominant RB, VY has moments where he looks like a dominant QB. They all also have moments where they look like crap and you wonder how they got drafted so high. It's way too early to tell who will be a bust and who will be great. In the end, all three could bust, and then the argument becomes they should have taken D'Brick.
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
Terrellezzzzzzzz Pryorzzzzzzzz!
Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
do i tell you when to flip the burger?
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2007, 08:16 PM    (permalink
marks01234
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,349
Reputation: 21252
marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I think we all should agree that is way to early to call anybody a bust.

As for your theory about drafting skill position players. I guess you would have drafted Joey Harrington, Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Kijuana Carter, Tim Biakabutuka, Carlos Rogers, David Terrell and Keyshaun Johnson.

For every Robert Gallery and Courtney Brown there is at least one Kijuana Carter and Ryan Leaf.

Super Bowl winning teams have built through the draft in a variety of ways. Look at the Pats. He is by far the best ran franchise for the past 5 years. And look where they have spent their first round selections prior to last year

2005 Logan Mankins G Fresno State
2004 Vince Wilfork DT Miami (Fla.)
2004 Ben Watson TE Georgia
2003 Ty Warren DT Texas A&M
2002 Daniel Graham TE Colorado
2001 Richard Seymour DT Georgia

I'd say they are doing something right. Where do you think the Chargers would be right now if they had decided to make a sexy pick, like a WR, instead of selecting Shawne Merriman or Luis Castillo. What about the Bears who have built their great defense around a great selection in Brian Urlacher and recently Tommie Harris.

Creating a rule that when you have two players with similar draft grade, you always select the player playing position X is stupid.
marks01234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2007, 08:28 PM    (permalink
ncbigbody
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Austin, TX.
Posts: 551
Reputation: 27
ncbigbody hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

Another one of my basic points is the Texans are trying to put fans in the stands. Houston wanted VY, Reggie Bush would have also brought fans to the stands. Instead fans get to see the same old boring Texans, failing to reach .500 again. Maybe Bush or VY wouldnt have increase the win total, but I can promise you......fans would have been happier.

I just cant see Mario Williams being a premier pass rusher in the NFL. I watched him all year living in Texas, he showed me nothing.
__________________

Sig thanks to DieHardVikingsFan
ncbigbody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2007, 08:56 PM    (permalink
energizerbunny
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,360
Reputation: 39426
energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SterlingSharpe

No, my reasoning and rules are ALWAYS draft the special skill player, playmaker, over the blocker.
Always.

Look at the Cowboys OL of the dynasty 90's. How many premiere picks?
With Aikman, Emmitt, and Irvin (all 1st rounders), they made that OL look great. They didn't draft any Ol #2 overall, or even first round. I think 1 of their 5 starting OL was taken high.


During the cowboys dynasty they routinely had 3-4 probowlers on the offensive line each year. I don't see how you can even begin to say that those skill positions made that line better. The only reason Emmitt broke the record or even got remotely close to it was the Oline he had infront of him. And just because the cowboys got lucky with small school guys that weren't in the first round doesn't mean that should be the blue print for building a team. Thats like saying you need to find a Hall of Fame QB in the 6th round if you wanna build a dynasty.


if you still don't get it maybe you should look around and see who some of the good teams are in the NFL right now. And notice how many 1st round lineman they have on their roster. You'll notice in the NFL today you can't win games unless you win in the trenches
energizerbunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2007, 09:04 PM    (permalink
datchapin
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: houston
Posts: 957
Reputation: 27737
datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I'll put it like this. The way things worked out this yr. were the best possible outcome for the Texans. David Carr is not as horrible as everyone makes it out to be and if you actually break down his performance and focus solely on him and not the outcome you would see that the guy was efficient and stepped up occasionally to make plays. Considering this is his first season in this system and everyone was still getting used to it there is no reason to think that he won't keep improving. Anyone who knows about the impact of the o-line on a QB's performance will see a direct co-relation with Carr's season. Notice that his first few games he led the league in passer rating. In the 2nd game of the season the starting center went out for a few series and we saw a fumble, also a second one by a miscommunication with the center on the first drive, but C'mon they're in the RCA dome and they don't use a silent count, that was just asking for it. Also in that game they lost their starting left tackle.

I'll take this paragraph to address the D'brick argument. We picked up Spencer and Winston in the third rd. Winston who walked in with a first rd. grade was beat out by Spencer who many viewed as a top talent and his only drawback was his limited experience. However thanks to those drawbacks he landed here. Here is something few know. In OTA's Spencer went head to head with Williams on many reps. and stalemated him many times. Anybody who watched the Jets/Texans game can see D'brick did not do that with any success. While D'brick held his own against Williams he didn't have the same success against him as Spencer. Spencer also benefit's from going against Williams on a consistent basis because there are few DE's with Williams skills and while the same could have been said had D'brick and Williams ended up on the same team I won't address that, because in no way do I see that scenario happening.

Back to the Carr thing. We lost our starting LT for the season in the second game, after that minor injuries held some of our starters out for short times. However we then lost our starting center and then our RT. Each injury went down and each time Carr's performance was hindered because the line needed time to re-adjust. A case can be made where D'brick would have helped in this situation, but injuries are unpredictable and had our starting LT not gone down D'brick might not even be mentioned in this discussion. Another thing that hindered our QB was the lack of a consistent running game.

Okay I'll take this time to address the Reggie Bush crowd. (If there is any.) Our line was doing a good job opening holes however none of our backs were able to exploit those opportunities. Now many will say, oh Bush has vision and would have taken full advantage of those hole's. WRONG! There's nothing wrong with Bush's vision, but he lack's patience he would not have had much success behind our o-line as well, because while our line did open up lanes they didn't do so on a consistent basis and this would have frustrated Bush. Many people don't realize that having a veteran RB like Duece really helped Bush. Had he been here in Houston he would have no veteran to lean on. Our so called veteran who changed his name didn't even watch any of his teams games. Much less attended them. This would have put an enormous strain on Bush and he would have had very, very little success. I am glad we didn't take Bush.

Well, I stated the reason's Carr's performance was hindered, but just for argument's sake I'll throw in another little tidbit. AJ our pro-bowl receiver led the AFC in dropped passes, this does not include balls he didn't go out and get or balls taken out of his hands. He was not the only one who missed the balls. All these problems in the receiving core reflect poorly on who? Yup, David Carr. Having said that I will now proceed to address V. Young.

With all those problems Carr faced, how, really, ask yourself. How can you think that Young would have had any success here? Vince Young does not handle loosing well as evidenced after his first loss in which he refused to address the media. How would he have coped with our teams record? Okay forget all that, our team didn't use the shotgun because the coaching staff didn't trust the centers and what would Young have done? This was a major question mark before the draft and would have been really exploited here. Add to that that VY had a consistent run game and think of how his performance would have been affected without it. Oh, yeah that would give you an idea of how he would do here as well. There are a ton of reasons that I could go through as to why Young would have been a horrendous choice for us. However I won't because hopefully what I've stated so far should suffice.

In closing after this yr. there is no argument that can be made for any of those guys that would be solid. Unlike what can be done for Williams. I don't understand why people keep bringing this up. They should just recognize that each prospect went into optimal situations and should strive forward to make better impacts in the future.
datchapin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2007, 09:10 PM    (permalink
datchapin
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: houston
Posts: 957
Reputation: 27737
datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.datchapin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Also I find it funny that the OP refuses to address any posts that have valid points, instead opting to ignore them and pressing his opinion without valid arguments. NEWSFLASH!! All of your arguments have been a++ raped and slapped with a property tag after being pwned. I wrote this because you will probably ignore my previous post which has valid points and would be to much for your feeble mind to handle. I just wanted to bring this to your attention. :twisted:
datchapin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2007, 09:19 PM    (permalink
San Diego Chicken
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,150
Reputation: 100841
San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I think the Texans are taking the right approach in rebuilding their line. Go with guys in the mid-rounds, develop them and hope they can stay together for more than just a season or two. The key in building a good offensive line is continuity and consistency. It's not neccessary to have a lot of high draft picks on an offensive line, you just need guys who are consistent, work well together and get the job done.

I hope Williams pans out for Houston, I really do. He's got great potential. I wouldn't have selected him over Reggie Bush and Vince Young, but like I said, hopefully it works out for the Texans. They haven't done much over the last five years to indicate that any desision they make is the correct one, so we'll see.
__________________
aka KGB Chicken
San Diego Chicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 12:18 AM    (permalink
njx9
Suck it Rob
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 12,938
Reputation: 6046786
njx9 has disabled reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncbigbody
Another one of my basic points is the Texans are trying to put fans in the stands.
they sold out every game this year. what was your point again?
njx9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 09:34 AM    (permalink
SterlingSharpe
 
Posts: n/a
Reputation:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by energizerbunny
Quote:
Originally Posted by SterlingSharpe

No, my reasoning and rules are ALWAYS draft the special skill player, playmaker, over the blocker.
Always.

Look at the Cowboys OL of the dynasty 90's. How many premiere picks?
With Aikman, Emmitt, and Irvin (all 1st rounders), they made that OL look great. They didn't draft any Ol #2 overall, or even first round. I think 1 of their 5 starting OL was taken high.
I have studied that Cowboys offensive line bunny. Have you? Look at all 5 of their starters and tell me where they were DRAFTED. That's what I am talking about here, the draft. Nate Newton, Stepnoski, Allen.... go look up those guys if they wree top 5 picks or how many were even first rounders.



During the cowboys dynasty they routinely had 3-4 probowlers on the offensive line each year. I don't see how you can even begin to say that those skill positions made that line better. The only reason Emmitt broke the record or even got remotely close to it was the Oline he had infront of him. And just because the cowboys got lucky with small school guys that weren't in the first round doesn't mean that should be the blue print for building a team. Thats like saying you need to find a Hall of Fame QB in the 6th round if you wanna build a dynasty.


if you still don't get it maybe you should look around and see who some of the good teams are in the NFL right now. And notice how many 1st round lineman they have on their roster. You'll notice in the NFL today you can't win games unless you win in the trenches
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 09:35 AM    (permalink
SterlingSharpe
 
Posts: n/a
Reputation:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncbigbody
Another one of my basic points is the Texans are trying to put fans in the stands. Houston wanted VY, Reggie Bush would have also brought fans to the stands. Instead fans get to see the same old boring Texans, failing to reach .500 again. Maybe Bush or VY wouldnt have increase the win total, but I can promise you......fans would have been happier.

I just cant see Mario Williams being a premier pass rusher in the NFL. I watched him all year living in Texas, he showed me nothing.
That's the same thing as I think, and I saw from Mario in his last year at NC State and his season this year..... sure I am not calling him a bust yet. I think he will be a good DE probably. But he will never be as good as Peppers, as Jason Taylor. And for a DE to be chosen ahead of Vince and Bush they should be.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 09:56 AM    (permalink
njx9
Suck it Rob
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 12,938
Reputation: 6046786
njx9 has disabled reputation
Default

"Never" is a mighty big word to use when so far your only actual breakdown of mario williams is that he didn't win any ACC honors before he was drafted. :roll:
njx9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 02:55 PM    (permalink
SterlingSharpe
 
Posts: n/a
Reputation:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
"Never" is a mighty big word to use when so far your only actual breakdown of mario williams is that he didn't win any ACC honors before he was drafted. :roll:
You are right, never say never. You never know.... like Sol Rosenburg said, you never, neva, neva know. Nevah..
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 03:50 PM    (permalink
energizerbunny
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,360
Reputation: 39426
energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.energizerbunny is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SterlingSharpe
I have studied that Cowboys offensive line bunny. Have you? Look at all 5 of their starters and tell me where they were DRAFTED. That's what I am talking about here, the draft. Nate Newton, Stepnoski, Allen.... go look up those guys if they wree top 5 picks or how many were even first rounders.


I don't see the point your trying to make, Larry Allen was taken in the top of the 2nd round from a small school. He was just a freak and if he had gone to a D1 school he would have been a 1st round pick without question. And Stepnoski was a 3rd round pick as a center, . Nate Newton was a rare case as he was undrafted out of Flordia A&M but had he also played D1 he probally would have gotten drafted as well. Because scouting wasn't like it was today and many gems could be found in later rounds. Erik Williams was also a 1st day guy taken in the 3rd round from another small school.


If you look at the teams with domiant Lines in the NFL loook at how many high picks they have on them. With the combines and proday's you can't just find these gems anymore out of no where and turn them into perennial pro bowlers. You have to take them early in the draft. Because Great Lines make average players look great, but rarely if ever will good skill positions make average lines look good.
energizerbunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 04:00 PM    (permalink
Shiver
Icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Lynn Swan of SWDC Hall of Fame
Posts: 18,270
Reputation: 210983
Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

If you want evidence of the need for elite Line talent, look at last year's Super Bowl game.

Pittsburgh:

Alan Faneca
Casey Hampton
Kendall Simmons
Marvel Smith (top of the 2nd)
Jeff Hartings

Seattle:

Walter Jones
Steve Hutchinson
Marcus Tubbs
Grant Wistrom

Both teams had top-5 NFL O-lines, both teams had front sevens capable of rushing the passer as well as stopping the run. You win championships in the trenches. Every single Super Bowl team I can remember has a bevy of elite D-Line and O-Line players.
__________________

Shiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 04:34 PM    (permalink
San Diego Chicken
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,150
Reputation: 100841
San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

The Texans are not even close to being Super Bowl caliber right now. Super Bowl teams have elite talent throughout their rosters at nearly every position. They need to focus on just trying make the playoffs for now. While the Super Bowl should be the ultimate goal for any team, it's going to take 3, 4, maybe 5 more drafts until the Texans have that type of talent.
__________________
aka KGB Chicken
San Diego Chicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 04:39 PM    (permalink
Shiver
Icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Lynn Swan of SWDC Hall of Fame
Posts: 18,270
Reputation: 210983
Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
The Texans are not even close to being Super Bowl caliber right now. Super Bowl teams have elite talent throughout their rosters at nearly every position. They need to focus on just trying make the playoffs for now. While the Super Bowl should be the ultimate goal for any team, it's going to take 3, 4, maybe 5 more drafts until the Texans have that type of talent.

By that time, Reggie Bush's career will be half over, five years for a running back is an eternity, especially in contrast to a Defensive End. They are not close now, so that makes the case for taking a 21-year old 6'7" 290-lbs, but raw, 'End even more strong. By the time they rebuild that O-Line, and patch up the defense a bit, he will just be entering his physical prime. What would Reggie Bush have done to this organization? He wouldn't have helped them win now, and he certainly wouldn't help patch the biggest problems they have, O-Line and D-Line.
__________________

Shiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 04:50 PM    (permalink
San Diego Chicken
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,150
Reputation: 100841
San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver
Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
The Texans are not even close to being Super Bowl caliber right now. Super Bowl teams have elite talent throughout their rosters at nearly every position. They need to focus on just trying make the playoffs for now. While the Super Bowl should be the ultimate goal for any team, it's going to take 3, 4, maybe 5 more drafts until the Texans have that type of talent.

By that time, Reggie Bush's career will be half over, five years for a running back is an eternity, especially in contrast to a Defensive End. They are not close now, so that makes the case for taking a 21-year old 6'7" 290-lbs, but raw, 'End even more strong. By the time they rebuild that O-Line, and patch up the defense a bit, he will just be entering his physical prime. What would Reggie Bush have done to this organization? He wouldn't have helped them win now, and he certainly wouldn't help patch the biggest problems they have, O-Line and D-Line.
Bush is also 21 years old, and he's not the type of running back who wears down after five years since he avoids punishment rather than deals it out. So I really don't buy that Mario will be entering the prime of his career while Bush will be close to the end of his career (is that what you were insinuating?)

I don't think there are any cut and dry rules to the NFL draft. Should the Chargers have picked Richard Seymour over Ladainian in 2001? Seymour is as dominant a defensive player as there is but would they really have been that much closer to a Super Bowl with Seymour? But apparently there is an unwritten rule that line players are far more important than skill position players (which I don't buy). Could the Chargers have used Seymour or someone like Leonard Davis? Absolutely, the Chargers were a terrible team at the time on both lines.
__________________
aka KGB Chicken
San Diego Chicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 04:54 PM    (permalink
Shiver
Icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Lynn Swan of SWDC Hall of Fame
Posts: 18,270
Reputation: 210983
Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
I don't think there are any cut and dry rules to the NFL draft. Should the Chargers have picked Richard Seymour over Ladainian in 2001? Seymour is as dominant a defensive player as there is but would they really have been that much closer to a Super Bowl with Seymour? But apparently there is an unwritten rule that line players are far more important than skill position players (which I don't buy). Could the Chargers have used Seymour or someone like Leonard Davis? Absolutely, the Chargers were a terrible team at the time on both lines.

What has Tomlinson's individual accomplishments done for the Chargers? What about Seymour, oh yeah, he has three rings and is a perennial all-pro.
__________________

Shiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 04:56 PM    (permalink
San Diego Chicken
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,150
Reputation: 100841
San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver
Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
I don't think there are any cut and dry rules to the NFL draft. Should the Chargers have picked Richard Seymour over Ladainian in 2001? Seymour is as dominant a defensive player as there is but would they really have been that much closer to a Super Bowl with Seymour? But apparently there is an unwritten rule that line players are far more important than skill position players (which I don't buy). Could the Chargers have used Seymour or someone like Leonard Davis? Absolutely, the Chargers were a terrible team at the time on both lines.

What has Tomlinson's individual accomplishments done for the Chargers? What about Seymour, oh yeah, he has three rings and is a perennial all-pro.
I think you're missing the point. Would the Chargers have won three Super Bowls with Seymour instead of Tomlinson? Of course not, football doesn't work that way.
__________________
aka KGB Chicken
San Diego Chicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 05:06 PM    (permalink
Shiver
Icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Lynn Swan of SWDC Hall of Fame
Posts: 18,270
Reputation: 210983
Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver
Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
I don't think there are any cut and dry rules to the NFL draft. Should the Chargers have picked Richard Seymour over Ladainian in 2001? Seymour is as dominant a defensive player as there is but would they really have been that much closer to a Super Bowl with Seymour? But apparently there is an unwritten rule that line players are far more important than skill position players (which I don't buy). Could the Chargers have used Seymour or someone like Leonard Davis? Absolutely, the Chargers were a terrible team at the time on both lines.

What has Tomlinson's individual accomplishments done for the Chargers? What about Seymour, oh yeah, he has three rings and is a perennial all-pro.
I think you're missing the point. Would the Chargers have won three Super Bowls with Seymour instead of Tomlinson? Of course not, football doesn't work that way.
No, but one of the greatest of all time backs hasn't propelled his team to a championship. He lost three years, fighting for a lost cause, for a team that wasn't very good. Was Seymour the single reason for the Super Bowl dynasty? No. But it shows the idealogy of the perennial top flight teams. Teams like New England, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh build from the inside out. The Patriots have spent four of the past six seasons with drafting a line player.

As for Reggie Bush, his career won't be winding down, but it is much shorter than Williams. A 15-year franchise Defensive End is much more important than a 8-10 year 3DRB/Slot Receiver. The Texans' top two needs were O-Line/D-Line, and Gary Kubiak, who knows Running Backs, chose to pass on Bush. It was his call, he has won championships. Bush doesn't fit the ZBS well, nor did he fit the Texans' needs either. If he can't average over 3.6 YPC, and no 20+ yard runs in New Orleans, how would he have performed in Houston!? :shock:
__________________

Shiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 05:28 PM    (permalink
San Diego Chicken
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,150
Reputation: 100841
San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.San Diego Chicken is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver
Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver
Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
I don't think there are any cut and dry rules to the NFL draft. Should the Chargers have picked Richard Seymour over Ladainian in 2001? Seymour is as dominant a defensive player as there is but would they really have been that much closer to a Super Bowl with Seymour? But apparently there is an unwritten rule that line players are far more important than skill position players (which I don't buy). Could the Chargers have used Seymour or someone like Leonard Davis? Absolutely, the Chargers were a terrible team at the time on both lines.

What has Tomlinson's individual accomplishments done for the Chargers? What about Seymour, oh yeah, he has three rings and is a perennial all-pro.
I think you're missing the point. Would the Chargers have won three Super Bowls with Seymour instead of Tomlinson? Of course not, football doesn't work that way.
No, but one of the greatest of all time backs hasn't propelled his team to a championship. He lost three years, fighting for a lost cause, for a team that wasn't very good. Was Seymour the single reason for the Super Bowl dynasty? No. But it shows the idealogy of the perennial top flight teams. Teams like New England, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh build from the inside out. The Patriots have spent four of the past six seasons with drafting a line player.

As for Reggie Bush, his career won't be winding down, but it is much shorter than Williams. A 15-year franchise Defensive End is much more important than a 8-10 year 3DRB/Slot Receiver. The Texans' top two needs were O-Line/D-Line, and Gary Kubiak, who knows Running Backs, chose to pass on Bush. It was his call, he has won championships. Bush doesn't fit the ZBS well, nor did he fit the Texans' needs either. If he can't average over 3.6 YPC, and no 20+ yard runs in New Orleans, how would he have performed in Houston!? :shock:
I think you're overstating things a bit. All three of the teams you named have franchise QB's (two of whom were 1st round draft picks). The Patriots spent a first rounder on a running back just this past year, so they understand the value of a good one. And the centerpiece of the Eagles' recent run has been a very Bush-like running back/weapon. Obviously all three teams have great lines but those are built over time. Also, Philadelphia's defensive line selections have not been overly successful, they've used free agency to strenghten their defensive line more than the draft. There are many different ways you can build a winner, again, there are no rules that are set in stone.

Don't be so quick to write out these guys whole careers yet. Both Williams and Bush have the potential to be big time players. Bush's YPC is exactly what Ladainian Tomlinson's was in his rookie season. Eventually Bush will grow into an every down back role just like Tiki Barber and Brian Westbrook have.
__________________
aka KGB Chicken
San Diego Chicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 05:48 PM    (permalink
Shiver
Icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Lynn Swan of SWDC Hall of Fame
Posts: 18,270
Reputation: 210983
Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
Bush's YPC is exactly what Ladainian Tomlinson's was in his rookie season.
This would be valid, if New Orleans didn't have a very good O-Line and Deuce McAllister was outclassing him as a running back. Marshall Faulk broke down Bush on NFL Total Access, he showed multiple times where Bush broke plays outside, when he could've cut back for big yards. Since that is the antithesis of what is needed from a ZBS runner, it isn't really a surprise that Bush said that the Texans were never really interested in him, prior to the draft.

Quote:
Eventually Bush will grow into an every down back role just like Tiki Barber and Brian Westbrook have.
Maybe, or he could be what he has been for New Orleans, primarily a slot receiver who runs end arounds.
__________________

Shiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 05:58 PM    (permalink
2drama
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: home of the M.S.U spartans MI
Posts: 857
Reputation: 2716
2drama could make a wolverine purr.2drama could make a wolverine purr.2drama could make a wolverine purr.2drama could make a wolverine purr.2drama could make a wolverine purr.2drama could make a wolverine purr.2drama could make a wolverine purr.2drama could make a wolverine purr.
Default

The texans need all what they can get get
i would have said to trade down for more picks

If i was playing madden franchise mode
as a GM carr would have been traded
my options in the draft would have been

1-VY would have been picked
or
(2) trade down for more picks to fill team need & holes

i voted for VY
__________________
Michael Vick 2.0 = Part 2 - 2011 NFL Season
2drama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 06:00 PM    (permalink
Shiver
Icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Lynn Swan of SWDC Hall of Fame
Posts: 18,270
Reputation: 210983
Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2drama
The texans need all what they can get get
i would have said to trade down for more picks
The problem with that is;
  • 1. No one wanted to trade up.
    2. The Texans couldn't have aquired Williams in a trade down.
__________________

Shiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 06:03 PM    (permalink
2drama
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: home of the M.S.U spartans MI
Posts: 857
Reputation: 2716
2drama could make a wolverine purr.2drama could make a wolverine purr.2drama could make a wolverine purr.2drama could make a wolverine purr.2drama could make a wolverine purr.2drama could make a wolverine purr.2drama could make a wolverine purr.2drama could make a wolverine purr.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2drama
The texans need all what they can get get
i would have said to trade down for more picks
The problem with that is;
  • 1. No one wanted to trade up.
    2. The Texans couldn't have aquired Williams in a trade down.
shiver who was the Number 2 DE in that draft
__________________
Michael Vick 2.0 = Part 2 - 2011 NFL Season
2drama is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.