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Old 08-07-2007, 08:51 PM    (permalink
Splat
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Default Honor Your Contract?

Ok I got in to it with some Chiefs fans about Larry Johnson holding out they said he should honor his contract I say teams don't honor contracts all the time how do you feel about this. I'm just using LJ as an example teams sign players to long term deals all the time and cut them half way threw and no body says any thing then a player holds out half way threw the deal and people freak out. If a team doesn't have to honor a deal why should a player?

P.S. I know I talked about LJ and the Chiefs but I just wanted to get your take on the NFL as a whole doing this so thats why I posted it in the main forum.
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Old 08-07-2007, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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I totally agree, that money isn't gauranteed and if a player is playing for well below what he's worth then it's unfair to expect him to readily risk his future.
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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I'm not against holdouts in most cases. When a player is underpaid and in the later year of the contract I think they are fine.

But when players already making a ton of money want a new deal while they have 3 and 4 years left I think is just wrong.

I take it case by case. With LJ I think the holdout is perfectly acceptable.
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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I'm not against holdouts in most cases. When a player is underpaid and in the later year of the contract I think they are fine.

But when players already making a ton of money want a new deal while they have 3 and 4 years left I think is just wrong.

I take it case by case. With LJ I think the holdout is perfectly acceptable.
I agree, you see it a lot more in the NBA where veterans don't want to stick around while a team rebuilds. I don't blame them at all, they might as well make either really good money, or have the best opportunity to win. Especially if their having most of the workload dumped on them. LJ kinda reminds me of KG with the Timberwolves, except not as bad.

Oh, and grats on 4k post Smooth :P
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:30 PM    (permalink
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No. LJ is worth much more than he's making. Sure, $6 million isn't chump change in life, but when you can make $50 million, you need to make it.
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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TJ Houshmandzadeh is underpaid and signed a new agent this year (Rosenhaus maybe, it was a big time guy)... He said it was just to get in more off field stuff which was the truth.

He said the reason he intended to honor his contract was because Jon Kitna had asked him if he would've been happy with that contract when he entered the league and he said yes, of course and that he would honor the life of it.

I understand some holdouts (Lance Briggs, wanted long term didn't get it... Although I know he wanted to cash in even more too) but in most cases I feel that you should honor the life of it. Right or wrong, I know the teams don't hold to the contracts but if you're a guy coming off a semi-breakout season and sign a longterm deal you sign the long term deal so you have some comfort and if you decline in ability (not to the point of getting cut of course) you still have a contract.

I understand the other side of the fence, I just feel you should honor what you negotiated for.
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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I'm not against holdouts in most cases. When a player is underpaid and in the later year of the contract I think they are fine.

But when players already making a ton of money want a new deal while they have 3 and 4 years left I think is just wrong.

I take it case by case. With LJ I think the holdout is perfectly acceptable.
Thats what I'm trying to get threw there heads LJ got a seven year deal as a rookie he has played four years of the deal if things don't change he will make 1.9 million this year while Turner in SD a back up makes 2.5 thats not right.
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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Personally, I have no problems with players holding out. Situations and circumstances arise which do not conform with players current contract. A player should be allowed to question his contract.
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Old 08-07-2007, 10:28 PM    (permalink
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I think Rookie deals are unfair to begin with, great for top picks, terrible for lower ones. LJ had no choice in his contract, as a rookie for his slot his salary and contract years were pre-determined.
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Old 08-07-2007, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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If the player in his rookie contract and is playing in an elite level I think the gm should give the player a new contract. You never know when its your last game and you are giving the team 100% every play. You are turning yourself into an elite player so you can help the team win.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:29 AM    (permalink
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I'm glad they changed the rules. Picks 1-16 can only get at most a 6-year deal. Picks 17-32 can only get at most a 5-year deal. This would be LJ's last year.
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:24 AM    (permalink
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I personally think holding out while under contract is wrong. Players sign a contract and if the want to be paid based on their production they should sign an incentive laden contract.

They don't because if they have a bad year they don't exactly give the money back based on the terrible production. Teams can cut the player, but the guranteed money never goes back. If a player is not under contract and holds out I have no problem with that (Asante Samuel). Besides, most contracts are back loaded so that both the player and the team know that the 6 year extension is really a 3 year contract.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:15 AM    (permalink
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I agree with this post, although I am against rookie holdouts. It's ridiculous that Revis has broken the Jets streak of nine years getting their top pick in camp, and on the same side, Mangini and Tannebaum should lose the ego and give him his five year deal. You can't go all camp withput the guy you traded up to get.
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:27 AM    (permalink
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In the end, holdouts end up hurting the players more than the team. When a player holds out, it allows backups to get time in front of the coaches. Moreover, it's very hard to stay in 100% football shape while holding out. In the end, the player may get his contract, but it will take him some time to get back to where he was. It could be damaging to him.
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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I agree with this post, although I am against rookie holdouts. It's ridiculous that Revis has broken the Jets streak of nine years getting their top pick in camp, and on the same side, Mangini and Tannebaum should lose the ego and give him his five year deal. You can't go all camp withput the guy you traded up to get.
The Jets are wrong on this one. Everyone around where Revis was picked has received 5 year deals. Jets should just give in now and get him into camp ASAP.
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Old 08-08-2007, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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At this point, it's not in either side's best interest to have the holdout go on any more. Revis has cost himself a chance to start the season as a starter, and the Jets haven't had a chance to get him into practices and drills. This is a bad situation.
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Old 08-08-2007, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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I personally think holding out while under contract is wrong. Players sign a contract and if the want to be paid based on their production they should sign an incentive laden contract.

They don't because if they have a bad year they don't exactly give the money back based on the terrible production. Teams can cut the player, but the guranteed money never goes back. If a player is not under contract and holds out I have no problem with that (Asante Samuel). Besides, most contracts are back loaded so that both the player and the team know that the 6 year extension is really a 3 year contract.
Like he could have gotten a $50 million contract as the #27 pick.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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If a player is not under contract and holds out I have no problem with that.
If your not under contract how can you hold out you don't have a team?
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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If your not under contract how can you hold out you don't have a team?
If you are franchised. Techinically I guess that is considered a hold out if you didn't sign the tag.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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The Jets own Revis' rights, so he does have a team.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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Under a franchise tag, the team still controls the players' rights, so, like a draft pick, the franchised player is still affiliated with the team.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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The Jets own Revis' rights, so he does have a team.
I'm not taking about rookies I'm taking about players that have proving what they can do I don't think rookies should have the right to hold out my self. If a player like Lj has out played his rookie deal I don't see why he can't ask for more money if he would have sucked they would have asked him to take a pay cut.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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If LJ wants to hold out for a better deal, he should. Let's say LJ demands $60 million (I just picked a random number). Some questions need to be answered at that point. Does the Chief's organization believe he's worth $60 million of production for the life of the contract? Do they believe that money can be better spent elsewhere? Does LJ believe he'll be able to consistently perform at a high enough level to merit $60 million over the life of the contract? If they agree on all of these points, they sign the man. Otherwise, part ways and hope he doesn't tear up your team too much next time you two meet.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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I'm not taking about rookies I'm taking about players that have proving what they can do I don't think rookies should have the right to hold out my self. If a player like Lj has out played his rookie deal I don't see why he can't ask for more money if he would have sucked they would have asked him to take a pay cut.
Any player that is not an UFA may or may not be under contract, but they can't go to another team.

The teams own their rights. If you don't sign your tender you can't just pack up and leave to go to another team.

If you 'outplay' your rookie contract then you get a big payday when you sign your second contract or you can ASK to renegotiate your deal. If the team choses to renegotiate then fine, but if they don't you shouldn't hold out.

You may ask, well why would any team offer to renegotiate then? Because in the long run the deal you sign will be less expensive than if you wait to hit the open market. Also, it may make the player less likely to sign with the same team regardless of money if they don't. The player still has leverage but I think they should play through their contract regardless.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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Holding out is never the right solution for a player looking for a new contract or a contract extension. For starters, it hurts the team b/c in most cases it is a player that will start and make a big time impact. Without him in camp the team can't create a chemistry or flow to their unit becuase an important piece is missing; there are the backups but they'll be replaced when he comes back and then they'll have to make adjustments to his style of play. Also the player is hurting himself becuase although he works out at a private facility he is not getting the reps or conditioning that his other teammates are getting that is setting them up to be successful for the game of football. Financially for players in LJ's case they are also losing money due to fines b/c they are not there participating, and they are costing themsleves there too. For a player to handle this right, they should go to management and present their concerns about how they are being treated financially. Nobody wins when a player holds out; the team is missing an important piece of the puzzle, the agent gets a bad rap for having a player that holds out, and the player loses the most by not being with the team and being fined.
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