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Old 08-08-2007, 11:20 AM    (permalink
Splat
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If LJ played out his rookie deal he would be 30 years old you really think any one would break the bank for 30 year old RB? To get mad at the guy for doing what you me or any one else would do is crap. If any one on here says they would not hold out after what he has done and what he is getting paid is lieing.
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Old 08-08-2007, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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I'm not lying. I would play out my contract. But on the other hand, I might not have been so stupid as to sign a rookie deal that puts me at 30 years old when it runs out without some serious escalators.
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I just wanna warn you guys not to take TNew41 too seriously. He's....let's just say, special. He's fairly harmless, though. He just needs several years of seasoning before he tries to make any more points, is all.
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Old 08-08-2007, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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If LJ played out his rookie deal he would be 30 years old you really think any one would break the bank for 30 year old RB? To get mad at the guy for doing what you me or any one else would do is crap. If any one on here says they would not hold out after what he has done and what he is getting paid is lieing.
LJ has to think about the future, and that's what he's doing. I think he's got a good 4-5 years left since he's only 28 and has only carried the load for 3 seasons.
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Old 08-08-2007, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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I'm not lying. I would play out my contract.
There is no way if you played in the NFL and was top five at your position and backs ups on another team got paid more then you that you would be fine with it.
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Old 08-08-2007, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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I'm not lying. I would play out my contract. But on the other hand, I might not have been so stupid as to sign a rookie deal that puts me at 30 years old when it runs out without some serious escalators.
But what choice did he have? His slot designated 6 years for a certain amount, the team wasn't going to put on huge escaltors just for him. If he sat out the season and KC didn't cave he'd be completely screwed next season, making alot less for just aslong of a deal.
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Old 08-08-2007, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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There is no way if you played in the NFL and was top five at your position and backs ups on another team got paid more then you that you would be fine with it.

Well lets see, did he have to give back the money he made as a rookie in 2003 with his whole 85 yards rushing for the season? Did he give back the money he made in 2004 with his 581 yards rushing for the season?

He was drastically overpaid for those two years. Why isn't anyone crying about that?

The bottom line is if I signed a contract I would honor it. I don't see why you think that is a lie. I expect people to honor their business arrangements with me, why wouldn't I honor mine with them.

He'll be 29 years old when he its the open market. He will sign a very nice deal with alot of signing bonus money and he should be fine with that. I know I would be.
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I just wanna warn you guys not to take TNew41 too seriously. He's....let's just say, special. He's fairly harmless, though. He just needs several years of seasoning before he tries to make any more points, is all.
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Old 08-08-2007, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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But what choice did he have? His slot designated 6 years for a certain amount, the team wasn't going to put on huge escaltors just for him. If he sat out the season and KC didn't cave he'd be completely screwed next season, making alot less for just aslong of a deal.
Why wouldn't the team put in huge escalators? Teams always prefer escalators to guarantees. If you're sure of your abilities why not forgoe some guarantees for performance escalators? If you chose to negotiate guaranteed money then you pay for in if you do turn out to be a top producer at your position. It's a professional gamble. He won his first two years when he had miserable production for a 1st round pick. He lost this year.
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I just wanna warn you guys not to take TNew41 too seriously. He's....let's just say, special. He's fairly harmless, though. He just needs several years of seasoning before he tries to make any more points, is all.
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Old 08-08-2007, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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Well lets see, did he have to give back the money he made as a rookie in 2003 with his whole 85 yards rushing for the season? Did he give back the money he made in 2004 with his 581 yards rushing for the season?

He was drastically overpaid for those two years. Why isn't anyone crying about that?

The bottom line is if I signed a contract I would honor it. I don't see why you think that is a lie. I expect people to honor their business arrangements with me, why wouldn't I honor mine with them.

He'll be 29 years old when he its the open market. He will sign a very nice deal with alot of signing bonus money and he should be fine with that. I know I would be.
But why should a player have to honor his deal if teams don't have to? If you don't live up to your deal they can cut,trade or ask you to take a pay cut. If they can do that I think it is only fair that you can ask for more money it should work both ways we just trading Ryan Sims for not living up to his rookie deal and people thought that was great but LJ asking for more money after out playing his and that is wrong?
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Old 08-08-2007, 11:59 AM    (permalink
LSUALUM99
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But why should a player have to honor his deal if teams don't have to? If you don't live up to your deal they can cut,trade or ask you to take a pay cut. If they can do that I think it is only fair that you can ask for more money it should work both ways we just trading Ryan Sims for not living up to his rookie deal and people thought that was great but LJ asking for more money after out playing his and that is wrong?

If honoring your deal seems so foreign, why not just have players sign a year-to-year contract? The bottom line is that teams can't just 'cut' a player when they pay lots of guaranteed money so that's not nearly the option you make it out to be. And players surely CAN hold out. I just think it's wrong and in most cases causes more harm to the player than good.

The reason teams can cut players (assuming the salary cap implications are limited, e.g. during the last year or so of a contract) is because there are only 32 teams but THOUSANDS of people willing to play for them. If LJ wanted to walk he could, but the league will get a replacement, he doesn't have a replacement league he can join.

The players learned long ago that since the league has the majority of the leverage they needed to form a union. So they did. The union negotiates the rules with the league and the CBA is agreed upon. LJ belongs to the NFLPA and should abide by their rules.

I think the bigger question is why do some players feel the rules don't apply to them, when they do apply to the other 1500 or so players in the NFL?
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I just wanna warn you guys not to take TNew41 too seriously. He's....let's just say, special. He's fairly harmless, though. He just needs several years of seasoning before he tries to make any more points, is all.
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Old 08-08-2007, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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The contract was good enough for him when he signed it, now honour the terms and stop being a whinging *****.
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Old 08-08-2007, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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The contract was good enough for him when he signed it, now honour the terms and stop being a whinging *****.
It was good enough because it was the standard contract for a 27th overall pick....do you really expect him to get 60 million based off that?.....he has outperformed his rookie contract.....he is underpaid....and the NFL is the most cut-throat of them.....get all you can can....If I was in my prime getting top five stats.....there is no way in hell I would spend the next three years of my prime making 2 million a year......especially when the contract was up I would be a 30 year old running back...for people who say they would honor this abomination of a contract.....shut up.....this is business....Customer Satisfaction comes second......personal satisfaction comes first....what is wrong with you people?!
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Old 08-08-2007, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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Well lets see, did he have to give back the money he made as a rookie in 2003 with his whole 85 yards rushing for the season? Did he give back the money he made in 2004 with his 581 yards rushing for the season?

He was drastically overpaid for those two years. Why isn't anyone crying about that?

The bottom line is if I signed a contract I would honor it. I don't see why you think that is a lie. I expect people to honor their business arrangements with me, why wouldn't I honor mine with them.

He'll be 29 years old when he its the open market. He will sign a very nice deal with alot of signing bonus money and he should be fine with that. I know I would be.
1. You wouldn't be fine with making less money than a backup runningback. You would be holding out until you got what you deserved. Stop with the ********, you're not fooling anyone.

2. Every play could be your last. What if he doesn't make it to next season? Then what?
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Old 08-08-2007, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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I definately don't see anything wrong with getting an extension to yuor deal to secure the future. With LJ he is in the last year of his deal and he is holding out not only for a raise but also to make sure he gets another deal with the Cheifs.

If anything it is good for the Cheifs because they are going to get him at less than what market value would be if they waited till after this season to sign him.

I'd prefer that the player still go to camp while trying to work out along term deal but that is really all the leverage the player has is to holdout so I'm not going to make judgement on him just because he is looking for more job security and using the only leverage he has.
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Old 08-09-2007, 01:16 AM    (permalink
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1. You wouldn't be fine with making less money than a backup runningback. You would be holding out until you got what you deserved. Stop with the ********, you're not fooling anyone.

2. Every play could be your last. What if he doesn't make it to next season? Then what?

1. He'll likely make way more money on the open market than with just an extension. The salary cap will increase again AND he'll be the best FA available in the entire open market.

2. Exactly, he could blow out a knee tomorrow, so why should his current team extend him? The team has the leverage, he doesn't. Using the injury argument only solidifies why the team SHOULD NOT renegotiate. Let's say he's injured. The team loses out on the deal, so they should not renegotiate. Let's say he's not injured, the team gets his production for the current, less inflated, salary, they should not renegotiate. The only reason they should renegotiate is that they want to keep him happy in the long term. RB's are not that hard to replace so keeping him happy isn't nearly as imperative as say keeping a QB, LT, CB, DE/OLB happy.

As for getting what you deserve...well, from a business point of view I think he is getting what he deserved. He was paid WAY above his production his first two years in the league yet no one here seems to think he should have given that money back.

Also, to the people that say 'it's business'. You clearly don't know the first thing about business. In the business world contracts are binding. The only time you have a chance to get out of them is if you have leverage. LJ has very little leverage. The league has all the leverage. That's why there is a player's union to begin with. You don't form a union or continue a union where the employees have the leverage, it's paradoxical.
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I just wanna warn you guys not to take TNew41 too seriously. He's....let's just say, special. He's fairly harmless, though. He just needs several years of seasoning before he tries to make any more points, is all.

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Old 08-09-2007, 01:22 AM    (permalink
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1. He'll likely make way more money on the open market than with just an extension. The salary cap will increase again AND he'll be the best FA available in the entire open market.

2. Exactly, he could blow out a knee tomorrow, so why should his current team extend him? The team has the leverage, he doesn't.

As for getting what you deserve...well, from a business point of view I think he is getting what he deserved. He was paid WAY above his production his first two years in the league yet no one here seems to think he should have given that money back.

Also, to the people that say 'it's business'. You clearly don't know the first thing about business. In the business world contracts are binding. The only time you have a chance to get out of them is if you have leverage. LJ has very little leverage. The league has all the leverage. That's why there is a player's union to begin with. You don't form a union or continue a union where the employees have the leverage, it's paradoxical.
1. No he won't. At age 30, his value drops like a man jumping off of Mount Everest. Not only that, he isn't the best back in the league, but one of the best.

2. LJ will have the leverage when Kansas City's running game sucks. If they don't give him an extension, it shows that they think they can do better without him (which they can't), or they can replace him in the near future. And the only reason LJ sat on the bench his first two years in the league was a guy named Priest Holmes. Maybe you've heard o him. And if you know so much about business, where do you work? And as far as replacing LJ, name me somebody who can come in and match his production?

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Old 08-09-2007, 01:26 AM    (permalink
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1. No he won't. At age 30, his value drops like a man jumping off of Mount Everest. Not only that, he isn't the best back in the league, but one of the best.

2. LJ will have the leverage when Kansas City's running game sucks. If they don't give him an extension, it shows that they think they can do better without him (which they can't), or they can replace him in the near future.
And the only reason LJ sat on the bench his first two years in the league was a guy named Priest Holmes. Maybe you've heard o him. And if you know so much about business, where do you work?
I started at Price Waterhouse Coopers out of college but now I own my own consulting firm, that that it's relevant. So, where do you work?

I know that they had Priest. But, regardless of why he didn't have the production, the fact remains he had less than 700 total yards rushing in two years and yet still made 1st round pick money. That means he was over paid by a long shot.
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I just wanna warn you guys not to take TNew41 too seriously. He's....let's just say, special. He's fairly harmless, though. He just needs several years of seasoning before he tries to make any more points, is all.
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Old 08-09-2007, 01:33 AM    (permalink
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I started at Price Waterhouse Coopers out of college but now I own my own consulting firm, that that it's relevant. So, where do you work?

I know that they had Priest. But, regardless of why he didn't have the production, the fact remains he had less than 700 total yards rushing in two years and yet still made 1st round pick money. That means he was over paid by a long shot.
Yeah, he was overpaid by maybe $1 million. Big ******* deal. That's not a longshot. And you basically are saying almost every first rounder is overpaid. They all come in their rookie year, make their seven figures, and don't do much their first year. Larry Johnson is being underpaid by about $45-50 million. And nobody was complaining about him being overpaid in his first couple of years because he was making about $1.5 million per year. Big ******* deal. He was being paid for the future. If he was making $10 million per year, then that's another story. Then he would be well overpaid. The point is, he deserves the extension, should eventually get it, and you can't name anyone who can legitimately replace him.

I'm 17, currently unemployed, and will be attending college in 2008.
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Old 08-09-2007, 01:40 AM    (permalink
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I think most 1st rounders are drastically overpaid. In fact, it seems to be the sentiment of this entire site that the money paid to players who have never played a down in the NFL is way disproportionate to what veterans get paid.

Also, I never said he shouldn't try to renegotiate his contract. I said that if I were in his position, I wouldn't hold out. I do not think that holding out is a good alternative for players. Renegotiating is perfectly within reason. But that requires both parties to open discussion. It's in the team's best interest if they want to keep the player long term. In those cases they will likely renegotiate (ala Tom Brady, Donald Driver or any of the many cases that it has occurred). It's pretty clear at this point, that KC hasn't deemed it in their own best interest to renegotiate. LJ doesn't have leverage in this deal.
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I just wanna warn you guys not to take TNew41 too seriously. He's....let's just say, special. He's fairly harmless, though. He just needs several years of seasoning before he tries to make any more points, is all.
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Old 08-09-2007, 01:45 AM    (permalink
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I think most 1st rounders are drastically overpaid. In fact, it seems to be the sentiment of this entire site that the money paid to players who have never played a down in the NFL is way disproportionate to what veterans get paid.

Also, I never said he shouldn't try to renegotiate his contract. I said that if I were in his position, I wouldn't hold out. I do not think that holding out is a good alternative for players. Renegotiating is perfectly within reason. But that requires both parties to open discussion. It's in the team's best interest if they want to keep the player long term. In those cases they will likely renegotiate (ala Tom Brady, Donald Driver or any of the many cases that it has occurred). It's pretty clear at this point, that KC hasn't deemed it in their own best interest to renegotiate. LJ doesn't have leverage in this deal.
You said that you would play out the contract. That to me and probably everyone else implies that you think he should play out the contract and shouldn't renogotiate the contract.
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Old 08-09-2007, 01:47 AM    (permalink
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You said that you would play out the contract. That to me and probably everyone else implies that you think he should play out the contract and shouldn't renogotiate the contract.
Well, you may want to read the body of the first post of both the first poster and try reading my responses. You'd get a better understanding of what I said if you actually read the words rather than assuming you know without. I doubt that the majority of people on this forum would come to the same conclusion as you regarding my responses, had they read them.
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I just wanna warn you guys not to take TNew41 too seriously. He's....let's just say, special. He's fairly harmless, though. He just needs several years of seasoning before he tries to make any more points, is all.
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Old 08-09-2007, 02:02 AM    (permalink
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Well, you may want to read the body of the first post of both the first poster and try reading my responses. You'd get a better understanding of what I said if you actually read the words rather than assuming you know without. I doubt that the majority of people on this forum would come to the same conclusion as you regarding my responses, had they read them.
You act like if LJ asks the Chiefs to renegotiate his contract and they say no, that's it. Quit complaining, and we'll deal with it later. If you were in that situation, you wouldn't honor your contract. You would hold out until you got what you wanted. You're not impressing anybody with that answer. You wouldn't wait until you're thirty and miss out on millions and millions of dollars uoi could have gotten when you were 28. And btw, he's not going to get at incentive laden contract at #27. Even if he did, it would be for basically nothing.
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:44 AM    (permalink
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The NFL chose to go with non-guaranteed contracts. The players agreed to this and have extended the CBA twice since the first permutation. The fact that employment is basically "at will", means that players are going to do everything possible to get the most guaranteed and up front money that they can. These symptoms are caused by the system. I can't blame any side for holding out or cutting players. They all agreed to this system, so they obviously realized that they would have to deal with these kinds of issues.

In retrospect, I think it's better for the league to have it work this way. Teams can escape bad contracts and give as much money as possible to those who earn it. Sure, it creates some bad blood, but I firmly believe that the current system rewards the best operators and the best players.
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Old 08-10-2007, 05:24 AM    (permalink
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Holding out in TC doesn't mean squat. KC can if they want renegotiate otherwise LJ will be there on opening day anyways. He really has no recourse. A lot of veterans hate training camp and missing it won't affect LJ all that much.
The way the exhibition season works today, the vets rarely get to play as HC's don't want to expose them to injuries before the season starts. Most teams now have to work themselves into a cohesive team during the 1st 2 games of the regular season. Missing TC would only impact rookies or young QB's still learning their trade. Other than that, its impact is minimal.
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Old 08-10-2007, 07:20 AM    (permalink
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I don't think rookies should have the right to hold out my self.
That doesn't make any sense. If a rookie isn't free to negotiate the best deal he possibly can, then teams would be free to just pay them however many pennies they felt like giving away that day. Rookie holdouts aren't always the result of a greedy or dumb player/agent. It's a two way street. There are two parties tugging on that money rope. The teams already have all the power and leverage (and money.) You're basically advocating slavery with that statement, if you really think about it. Owners draft the slaves, ship them to their home city, and then pay them what they choose to. No. The players should have every right to holdout until they feel they've received a fair deal.
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