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Old 08-09-2007, 04:13 PM    (permalink
Man_Of_Steel
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The G-Men and also the Colts.
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Old 08-09-2007, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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Chiefs and Titans... both offenses are looking more than a little shaky.
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Old 08-09-2007, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Man_Of_Steel View Post
The G-Men and also the Colts.
I wouldn't be suprised with the Colts. They've lost their LT and their CBs aren't very deep and talented. Booger is also out for the year meaning their run defense will suffer.
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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Which team do you think will have the biggest drop-off next season??? Teams that were good last year but will be a big dissapointment this year.

Personally I'd say the Giants and the Chiefs.

The Giants lost their best player in Tiki and could also lose Strahan if he retires. Both of their Left Tackles are gone and Guy Whimper is the replacement. Also on Defense they lost both of their OLB's and Kiwi is going to play their. On top of all that their coach Tom Coughlin is on the verge of being fired.

Kansas City was always a power running team with a great O-line. With Shields and Roaf now gone their O-line is diminishing. Also with their best player likely to hold-out and a first year quarterback starting for them they are going to struggle on offense. Their defence is still weak and an area for concern.

I expect both teams to pick in the Top 7 next year.


Who do you think will dissapoint?
The Kansas City defense is not still weak but thanks for the opinion that shows a complete lack of knowledge on the subject.
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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Chiefs and Titans... both offenses are looking more than a little shaky.
And our offense wasn't a little shaky last year? Yet we still made the playoffs.
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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Off the top of my head, I would say the Titans & Chiefs.
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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And our offense wasn't a little shaky last year? Yet we still made the playoffs.
Yet, you lost your starting quarterback and Larry Johnson is worn out.
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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The Bears due to the super bowl losers curse. I am superstitious.
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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Larry Johnson is worn out.
Ya Larry Johnson is worn out from starting one and a half seasons at 27 years old the guy is old and washed up.
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't be suprised with the Colts. They've lost their LT and their CBs aren't very deep and talented. Booger is also out for the year meaning their run defense will suffer.
If there's one thing that the Colts' CB's are, it's deep. They've drafted a ton of corners the last few years and the guys in place have a lot of potential, it just comes down to whether or not they can live up to it. It's not like you need to have great corners for the Cover 2 anyway, Harper and David were nothing too special.
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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The Saints. They honestly weren't that great of a team last year, their defense is still weak and they have very little depth on offense

Other candidates include the Jets (feasted on a weak schedule last year) and Giants (obvious reasons)
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Splat420 View Post
Ya Larry Johnson is worn out from starting one and a half seasons at 27 years old the guy is old and washed up.
Oh I'm sorry but carrying the ball 752 times over two seasons is being worn out where I come from. Maybe in that fantasy land of Kansas City you don't think it'll have an effect on him but everyone who has carried the ball 370 or more times in a season didn't do well the following. Let's start with the most recent...

Shaun Alexander 2006: 370 carries, 1880 yards, 5.1 AVG
Shaun Alexander 2007: 252 carries, 896 yards, 3.6 AVG

Curtis Martin 2005: 371 carries, 1697 yards, 4.6 AVG
Curtis Martin 2006: 220 carries, 735 yards, 3.3 AVG

Jamal Lewis 2003: 387 carries, 2066 yards, 5.3 AVG
Jamal Lewis 2004: 235 carries, 1006 yards, 4.3 AVG

Ricky Williams 2002: 383 carries, 1853 yards, 4.8 AVG
Ricky Williams 2003: 392 carries, 1372 yards, 3.5 AVG

Edgerrin James 2000: 387 carries, 1709 yards, 4.4 AVG
Edgerrin James 2001: 151 carries, 662 yards, 4.4 AVG

Jamal Anderson 1998: 410 carries, 1846 yards, 4.5 AVG
Jamal Anderson 1999: 19 carries, 59 yards, 3.1 AVG

Terrell Davis 1998: 392 carries, 2008 yards, 5.1 AVG
Terrell Davis 1999: 67 carries, 211 yards, 3.1 AVG

As you can see when someone carries the load 370+ times in a year the following year they either get hurt or their production drops off.
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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Oh I'm sorry but carrying the ball 752 times over two seasons is being worn out where I come from. Maybe in that fantasy land of Kansas City you don't think it'll have an effect on him but everyone who has carried the ball 370 or more times in a season didn't do well the following. Let's start with the most recent...

Shaun Alexander 2006: 370 carries, 1880 yards, 5.1 AVG
Shaun Alexander 2007: 252 carries, 896 yards, 3.6 AVG

Curtis Martin 2005: 371 carries, 1697 yards, 4.6 AVG
Curtis Martin 2006: 220 carries, 735 yards, 3.3 AVG

Jamal Lewis 2003: 387 carries, 2066 yards, 5.3 AVG
Jamal Lewis 2004: 235 carries, 1006 yards, 4.3 AVG

2002: 383 carries, 1853 yards, 4.8 AVG
Ricky Williams 2003: 392 carries, 1372 yards, 3.5 AVG

Edgerrin James 2000: 387 carries, 1709 yards, 4.4 AVG
Edgerrin James 2001: 151 carries, 662 yards, 4.4 AVG

Jamal Anderson 1998: 410 carries, 1846 yards, 4.5 AVG
Jamal Anderson 1999: 19 carries, 59 yards, 3.1 AVG

Terrell Davis 1998: 392 carries, 2008 yards, 5.1 AVG
Terrell Davis 1999: 67 carries, 211 yards, 3.1 AVG

As you can see when someone carries the load 370+ times in a year the following year they either get hurt or their production drops off.
Alexander - Was in his 5th year as a starter.

Martin - Was in his 10th year as a starter.

Lewis - Was in his 4th year as a starter.

Williams - Was in his 4th year as a starter.

And so on and so on it is not the same thing LJ was in his first year as a starter and he only started one year in college he didn't have the same kinda mileage going in as those players. I'm not saying he is going to play ten years but to say he is worn down and done after one full season and at 27 years old is to much.
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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The Giants and Chiefs seem to be a pretty obvious choice. I also think that the Saints and Titans qualify. I liked the story of the Saints last year and I was rooting for them to win the Super Bowl, but I think people need to remember that they were 10-6 last year, not an amazing 13-3 or 14-2 record. Their defense could become an issue for them. I liked watching Vince Young last year, but statistically he wasn't very good. On top of that, the Titans have virtually nothing else.

As far as a team that I think will struggle and everyone else thinks will be good, its the 49ers. I have argued my stance on this several times before, so I will just sum it up. The 49ers had one of the worst points differentials in the NFL, which means that in a typical season they would not have gone 7-9. Meaning they were lucky to have that 7-9 record. Alex Smith made great strides last season, mostly because he was striding forward from being utterly atrocious. Even with that stride forward, he was 22nd in QB rating. Their WR corps are very weak, better than last year, but still weak. Their defense was terrible last season and I doubt that the additions of Clements, Banta-Cain, and Willis will make that much of a difference. Clements is certainly a good CB, but any time a list of overrated CB's comes up, his name is mentioned. Banta-Cain is an amazingly overrated signing. He has 90 tackles in 4 seasons, and just 42 last season. Yeah, that definitely qualifies as season changing play. Willis is a rookie, he will be good, but expecting him to make a huge difference is asking quite a bit.
So let me sum it up. 49ers improved in almost every area from last year. But they will struggle more than last year? Great argument.

You say our wr corps is still weak... Darrell Jackson is weak? i guess 9 receptions for 179 yds and 2 tds in two games against your defense is weak. They also get Vernon Davis back this year who will probably be big in the red zone/3rd downs where we really struggled.

The said the defense added Banta-Cain, Clements and Willis and that wouldn't make a big impact. What about adding 5 starters to a defense? That means we have better depth and better starters.

Throw the point differentials out the window. The only thing that matters is wins and losses. The point differential is really because of 3 games in which the 49ers were just blown out and admittedly played like crap.
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Old 08-09-2007, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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And our offense wasn't a little shaky last year? Yet we still made the playoffs.
You lost your starting QB, the OL is rebuilding, and your star RB is holding out. Not exactly a recipe for success...
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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To those that answered Indy, can I ask why? The only significant losses the Colts suffered were Tarik Glenn (which, admittedly, could be a big loss), Booger McFarland to injury (again, could be big), and Nick Harper. Dominic Rhodes was essentially a backup, and Jason David and Cato June were average starters, the kind the Colts constantly replace (while having 50 wins in the last 4 years). As for Brandon Stokley, Montae Reagor, and Corey Simon, they didn't contribute very much if at all to last year's team, so the loss of those players are basically irrelevant. I'd just like to know why people would pick the Colts. I know they didn't have the greatest of offseasons on paper (but we all know how relevant "on paper" is), but I don't think they had the worst either.
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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Alexander - Was in his 5th year as a starter.

Martin - Was in his 10th year as a starter.

Lewis - Was in his 4th year as a starter.

Williams - Was in his 4th year as a starter.

And so on and so on it is not the same thing LJ was in his first year as a starter and he only started one year in college he didn't have the same kinda mileage going in as those players. I'm not saying he is going to play ten years but to say he is worn down and done after one full season and at 27 years old is to much.
There is no way anyone's body can withstand the amount of carries LJ has been getting and not get injured. I'm sorry but it's impossible.
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:16 PM    (permalink
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the chiefs n titans for me. idk ill think of someone else later
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:16 PM    (permalink
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yeah but the chiefs D didn't upgrade at any position.
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Old 08-09-2007, 11:38 PM    (permalink
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So let me sum it up. 49ers improved in almost every area from last year. But they will struggle more than last year? Great argument.

You say our wr corps is still weak... Darrell Jackson is weak? i guess 9 receptions for 179 yds and 2 tds in two games against your defense is weak. They also get Vernon Davis back this year who will probably be big in the red zone/3rd downs where we really struggled.

The said the defense added Banta-Cain, Clements and Willis and that wouldn't make a big impact. What about adding 5 starters to a defense? That means we have better depth and better starters.

Throw the point differentials out the window. The only thing that matters is wins and losses. The point differential is really because of 3 games in which the 49ers were just blown out and admittedly played like crap.
Okay, I have discussed this many times before and don't really want to get into another debate about this. Check out the NFC West thread if you want to read up on what myself and some other 49er fan were debating. If simply feeling that you have improved in the offseason automatically meant the team would be better, there would be about 25 teams a year making the playoffs. As for Jackson, he is definitely an improvement on the number 1 from last year, but he is by no means an elite WR. Bringing up individual game performances is rather ridiculous too, especially when it is against the Rams, since many a player have had career games against the Rams the past few years. I don't know what more I have to say to get 49er fans to understand where I am coming from. The 49ers are not going to finish .500 or above, as my sig says. Just wait and see, if you are still on this site by the time the 49ers have proven they aren't very good I will send you a little reminder of my immense knowledge. If you wish to do some sort of signature bet I am willing, my deal is that the Rams will have a better record than the 49ers.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:10 AM    (permalink
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Yet, you lost your starting quarterback and Larry Johnson is worn out.
And what makes you think Larry Johnson is worn out? That is complete speculation on your part. Counting the playoffs Emmitt Smith went over 400 carries three times in his career, all three times being early in his career. That didn't wear him out. If we get LJ back in camp he will have missed all of training camp and likely all of the preseason. He will be plenty fresh.

And we LOST our starting QB? If we wanted to keep Green we would have. Green sucked last year. Huard is currently a better QB than Green is and Brodie Croyle is much more talented than both of them and has the potential to be a much better player than either of them.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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Oh I'm sorry but carrying the ball 752 times over two seasons is being worn out where I come from. Maybe in that fantasy land of Kansas City you don't think it'll have an effect on him but everyone who has carried the ball 370 or more times in a season didn't do well the following. Let's start with the most recent...

Shaun Alexander 2006: 370 carries, 1880 yards, 5.1 AVG
Shaun Alexander 2007: 252 carries, 896 yards, 3.6 AVG

Curtis Martin 2005: 371 carries, 1697 yards, 4.6 AVG
Curtis Martin 2006: 220 carries, 735 yards, 3.3 AVG

Jamal Lewis 2003: 387 carries, 2066 yards, 5.3 AVG
Jamal Lewis 2004: 235 carries, 1006 yards, 4.3 AVG

Ricky Williams 2002: 383 carries, 1853 yards, 4.8 AVG
Ricky Williams 2003: 392 carries, 1372 yards, 3.5 AVG

Edgerrin James 2000: 387 carries, 1709 yards, 4.4 AVG
Edgerrin James 2001: 151 carries, 662 yards, 4.4 AVG

Jamal Anderson 1998: 410 carries, 1846 yards, 4.5 AVG
Jamal Anderson 1999: 19 carries, 59 yards, 3.1 AVG

Terrell Davis 1998: 392 carries, 2008 yards, 5.1 AVG
Terrell Davis 1999: 67 carries, 211 yards, 3.1 AVG

As you can see when someone carries the load 370+ times in a year the following year they either get hurt or their production drops off.

Then I guess Larry Johnson is going to have to prove the ignorant fans around the NFL, such as yourself, wrong.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:15 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bored of education View Post
yeah but the chiefs D didn't upgrade at any position.
Huh? Are you serious?

I guess the addition of Donnie Edwards and Napoleon Harris won't help at linebacker?

The additions of Turk McBride, Tank Tyler, and Alfonso Boone won't help on the defensive line?

And what about the further growth and progression of young players like Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali, Bernard Pollard, and Jarrad Page?
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:16 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by kmartin575 View Post
And what makes you think Larry Johnson is worn out? That is complete speculation on your part. Counting the playoffs Emmitt Smith went over 400 carries three times in his career, all three times being early in his career. That didn't wear him out. If we get LJ back in camp he will have missed all of training camp and likely all of the preseason. He will be plenty fresh.

And we LOST our starting QB? If we wanted to keep Green we would have. Green sucked last year. Huard is currently a better QB than Green is and Brodie Croyle is much more talented than both of them and has the potential to be a much better player than either of them.
Jeez, it sounds like every subtraction was actaully an addition, I guess nothing can go wrong this yearin Kansas City...

Or, Green actually was a better starter then Huard, numbers or not, Croyle has shown/proved nothing and if he was so much more talented, he would be the clearcut starter. Not to mention Emmit Smith did not have the same running style, or take the same hits LJ did, that may contribute to him wearing down faster, the receivers are either rookies or ineffective, the O-Line is getting worse each year, and although the defense is average, it is still not effective enough for them to win games on it...

Some of those problems they may be able to overcome, but reading what you post, you seem to feel there's no concerns at all going into this season...
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:17 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ewing View Post
There is no way anyone's body can withstand the amount of carries LJ has been getting and not get injured. I'm sorry but it's impossible.
Sure there is. Emmitt Smith went over 400 carries three times in his career counting the playoffs and he went over 300 carries 6 other times. That may be just one player but you said there is no way so I offered one player who did it.

Larry Johnson is a wrecking ball at 230 pounds and he doesn't take alot of hard hits. He gives out hits. I will remember this thread so later in the year I can come back and rub it in your face that you were wrong.
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