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Old 08-11-2007, 10:53 PM    (permalink
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Default PS Game 1 Discussion

Soooo....of course its way to early to overreact, but Im just gonna discuss my observations in bulletin format.


- Diehl and the offensive line did not look good at all. They couldn't create holes for Jacobs in the run game, and didn not pass protect well at all. The first pass play of the game, Diehl blew his assignment and blocked no one, the 2nd pass play of the game he let his man blow right past him. After that he continued to struggle. And mind you, this is just 4 man rushes. This oline does not look good at all right now, and this could be a SERIOUS problem coming into the season. They better get it together before the season starts, but right now they look horrible.

- Jacobs did what he could, but he lacks burst, and because he's so big, the holes need to be bigger for him. He's not Tiki, he can't squeek through cracks. This oline needs to do a better job blocking up front for the big fella. Plus, he needs a fullback. And we have none. Great....

- Eli did ok, not too happy about that one pass, but hey, the guy was not getting great pass protection at all. He could be in store for a very ugly season if his line doesn't get it together.

- The defense looks different. The safeties play closer, the CBs press, the alignment is more of a true 4-3. The scheme should be ok, but one thing that worries me is the middle of the field is wide open. Our linebackers cannot cover at all.

- Kiwi cannot play LB. No way. He's lost out there. He continually missed his gap assignment in the run game, and was lost in coverage. Use him as a situational pass rusher, not a true LB. He won't hack it at all.

- The middle of the defense is soft. You saw how they got gashed by the run game? Ive been saying for a long time that I don't feel comfortable about this new setup without a true NT. And it showed on the field. The middle of the defense was getting gashed for runs over and over again. And I wasn't impressed with Pierce either. He needs to step it up as well.

- DeOssie looked good. He or Kawika Mitchell should start at SAM for us.

- Chase kicks ass. How long is it gonna be before the man gets a starting job? He makes plays everytime he's out there. Put him at WILL, move Kawika to SAM or start DeOssie there, we NEED him on the field. Especially with how porous our run D was, we can use his run thumping out there. Just put him out there. He's earned a chance at the starting lineup.

- Corey Webster still sucks, no surprise there.

- For all the people who say we can live without Strahan, think again. Ive said last season that his intangibles can't be measured. And it shows on the field. He's still the best run stuffing DE in the game. Our run defense dramatically improves with him on the field period. We need him back. We're not better without him. Not by a longshot. So all that "we don't need Strahan" mumbo jumbo...forget it. You don't get better losing a HOF player.


Thats pretty much it. I probably overreacted with some of my analysis. Its hard not to do when you've been waiting so long. But if you put your homerism aside for a second, and analyze this team based on what we saw today, this is not a good team. They can improve, and they better improve. But right here right now, the product on the field is the worst in the NFC East. If they play like that this season, we'll be the bottom of the NFC East.
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Old 08-11-2007, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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It wasn't built in a day, either.
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Old 08-11-2007, 11:16 PM    (permalink
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It wasn't built in a day, either.
You can't teach someone how to play linebacker in 4 weeks either. It would be one thing if Kiwi showed some promise out there, but he looked way out of place.

On a lighter note, did anyone else notice the bunches formations being used? How do we feel about that? I actually like it.
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Old 08-11-2007, 11:45 PM    (permalink
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You can't teach someone how to play linebacker in 4 weeks either. It would be one thing if Kiwi showed some promise out there, but he looked way out of place.
It wasn't just about Kiwi, it was about the entire team. But Kiwi can improve and I think he will. We know he's a smart kid. We know he's got the athletic ability.
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Old 08-12-2007, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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Just wondering how Ross did in his first game... I still wish we had a chance to get him.
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Old 08-12-2007, 03:53 AM    (permalink
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Just wondering how Ross did in his first game... I still wish we had a chance to get him.

Didn't play.
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Old 08-12-2007, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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if strahan doesnt play(retires) we should put Kiwi at DE and start either Chase or Zak. everytime Chase is on the field, he makes plays. seriously, in the 1st half, it looked like Gibril, Osi, Chase and Zak were the only guys who knew how to tackle.(although Kawika hada nice hit).

also, J-Load was very good. and BBD, on FB, Douglas had a nice catch out of the backfield. He's no Finn when it comes to blocking, but he looked much smoother catching the ball.

also, Bradshaw(aside from the fumble) and Ward both impressed me. Ward had a nice return and a nice run for a TD. Bradshaw was very quick and elusive and saw him have a really nice block on a LB, he dove in there after getting beat and stopped the LB from getting to Wright.
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Old 08-12-2007, 09:29 AM    (permalink
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bradshaw surprised me, and also i think we should trade strahan, there is no point of keeping him here, at least we can get some value out of him
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Old 08-12-2007, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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bradshaw surprised me, and also i think we should trade strahan, there is no point of keeping him here, at least we can get some value out of him
????? did you watch the way our run D was shredded by Deangelo Williams? i cant believe you just said that...

and on that track, my aunt, strahan's personal agent, said that he will probably return this week... for what its worth
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Old 08-12-2007, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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My thoughts...

http://www.ny-footballgiants.com/columns/author/14/
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Old 08-12-2007, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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????? did you watch the way our run D was shredded by Deangelo Williams? i cant believe you just said that...

and on that track, my aunt, strahan's personal agent, said that he will probably return this week... for what its worth
I watched the game, i didn't see deangelo though. We got killed in the run game, but i'd rather see kiwi go back to DE because he seemed outta place. I just felt that strahan could be worth a 3rd or a 4th at least
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Old 08-12-2007, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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I watched the game, i didn't see deangelo though. We got killed in the run game, but i'd rather see kiwi go back to DE because he seemed outta place. I just felt that strahan could be worth a 3rd or a 4th at least
strahan will either be a giant, or retired...
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Old 08-12-2007, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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It wasn't just about Kiwi, it was about the entire team. But Kiwi can improve and I think he will. We know he's a smart kid. We know he's got the athletic ability.
I'll give him until the end of PS. If he doesn't work the kinks out by then, then he should be a situational pass rusher and keep practicing LB during the season until he's ready. He shouldn't start in Week 1 if he's still shakey.

One thing I was disappointed in, that Im gonna pay close attention to now is Antonio Pierce. His production wasn't that great last year toward the 2nd half of the season. I initially blamed the scheme for that, but then this first PS game, he was rather unimpressive. I'll attribute it to the interior dline getting worked badly but I still want to see more out of him. I was disappointed with him. He also is a little heavier than he should be. He's not conditioned his body right. Thats another thing Im angry about. This scheme needs a sledgehammer MIKE. Chase actually fits the scheme better, but Im definately not advocating benching Pierce for Chase. Im just saying. Chase needs to be on that field. Id put him at WILL, and if Kiwi fails at SAM put either Mitchell or DeOssie at SAM. But more than ever, I feel Chase deserves a starting spot.


I still think this defense will be much better in the pass game with its attacking nature. The thing is, we won't see that until the regular season, theyre not gonna do their blitzes right now. Plus no Strahan, no Tuck, no Robbins, thats not exactly a great recipe for success on the dline.

But one thing that worries me still is our run D. Ive been saying for a long time that I want an NT, and I don't believe in this new system that has no true NT. People tend to forget, while Philly has always had a solid D, they never were known as a dominant run defense. And the scheme attributes to that. That could be a problem.

The Skins, Eagles, and Cowboys all have very good interior olines. If the middle of this dline doesn't pick it up, our run defense will be real bad this year. We have small DTs. Theyre gonna get pushed around by those big hulking lines in our division. That puts added pressure on our LB core to stop the run, and right now we're asking a below average LB core to get the job done. Thats not gonna cut it.

They have 3 more weeks to get it together, hopefully they can. Spags is gonna have to adjust his scheme a little this year. We don't have the personnell to fit it perfectly.
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Old 08-12-2007, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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BBD i was a little concerned with Pierce's performance, but thinking again that his front line consisted of WillyJo at end at rookie Alford at DT. Kiwi just needs more reps and coaching. after making a tackle and coming off the field, i saw Armstead give him a high five. i really hope Armstead coaches the LB's this year(at least helps) he could be GREAT for all our LB's.

but i think the majority of us agree, Chase should get a shot at starting or even start, for either Kiwi or Kawika
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Old 08-12-2007, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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BBD i was a little concerned with Pierce's performance, but thinking again that his front line consisted of WillyJo at end at rookie Alford at DT. Kiwi just needs more reps and coaching. after making a tackle and coming off the field, i saw Armstead give him a high five. i really hope Armstead coaches the LB's this year(at least helps) he could be GREAT for all our LB's.

but i think the majority of us agree, Chase should get a shot at starting or even start, for either Kiwi or Kawika
Thats the thing. Where do we put Chase? We can use Kawika's speed on the field. He actually looked pretty solid out there. At the same time, you hope Kiwi develops so we have a playmaker out there from the LB core as a pass rusher.

Id have an open competition between Kawika and Chase right now for the WILL spot if Kiwi can eventually get the SAM position down. If he continues to struggle, we just gotta move Kawika to SAM and put Chase at WILL.

I want to see Robbins in the middle too. Looks like we're gonna need him there. And I hope we move Coffield back to nose but I know thats not happening.
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Old 08-12-2007, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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Thats the thing. Where do we put Chase? We can use Kawika's speed on the field. He actually looked pretty solid out there. At the same time, you hope Kiwi develops so we have a playmaker out there from the LB core as a pass rusher.

Id have an open competition between Kawika and Chase right now for the WILL spot if Kiwi can eventually get the SAM position down. If he continues to struggle, we just gotta move Kawika to SAM and put Chase at WILL.

I want to see Robbins in the middle too. Looks like we're gonna need him there. And I hope we move Coffield back to nose but I know thats not happening.
the good thing is, we have options and depth. if someone isnt playing up to par, we have a couple guys i'd have no problem subbing in. plus, they're all versitile- Chase, Zak and Gerris.
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Old 08-12-2007, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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So bigbluedefense, what did you think of your whipping boy Guy Whimper? Seemed to have a pretty good game for a guy you thought had no place on an NFL roster.
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Old 08-13-2007, 07:26 AM    (permalink
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So bigbluedefense, what did you think of your whipping boy Guy Whimper? Seemed to have a pretty good game for a guy you thought had no place on an NFL roster.
Whimper made the key block that sprung Droughns for that nice screen. Besides that he didn't stand out. Which is probably a good thing for an offensive lineman. We'll see, I wish he was further along still.

As for Diehl, I'm gonna go back and look at those first two pass plays, but besides that I think he played well. If he was terrible on those two plays, he definitely improved as the game went on.

Other things. Kiwi did look bad. They exposed him on the first preaseason game. Not good. Kiwi will have to expect more of that, because Dallas will be drooling over tape of that game. Besides one bad play on a stunt, Marcus Bell looked decent. When they signed him, I didn't think he had a spot on this team, but with Joseph playing DE, I think he will make the squad. Speaking of Joseph, he looked good to me. Made one nice play that stood out in my head two days later, where he got in and moved laterally to make a nice play on the RB behind the LOS. Also this Dahl guy sucks. I know a lot of people were excited to have him, but he just can't cut it. I'd also like to see Ryan Grant give Bradshaw a run for his money but I doubt it happens because of Bradshaw's return ability as well. Grant seems to be fully healed. When we signed him two years ago out of Notre Dame, I thought we got lucky with a nice player, we'll see what happens. Also give time for Robert Douglas, he wasn't terrible and he definitely moves better than Finn and is a ton more athletic.

Finally, the Big Boss Man is going to be hard to cover. He needs to work on quite a few things, but you could already see that he is going to be mismatch for a lot of people attempting to cover him.

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Old 08-13-2007, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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So bigbluedefense, what did you think of your whipping boy Guy Whimper? Seemed to have a pretty good game for a guy you thought had no place on an NFL roster.
He did decent on run blocking, but his pass protection was weak. He was getting beat a fair amount of times. And mind you, this is against 2nd and 3rd stringers. What would he do against the 1st string?

Thats why I still believe he would be 3 on any other team's depth chart. Your backups should be able to somewhat handle starters in the NFL. Whimper at this stage in his development would get destroyed by starters. Its one thing if he did that against starters, I could say yeah maybe he can develop, but if youre doing that with 2nd and 3rd stringers, you are not backup worthy.
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Old 08-13-2007, 10:05 AM    (permalink
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Whimper made the key block that sprung Droughns for that nice screen. Besides that he didn't stand out. Which is probably a good thing for an offensive lineman. We'll see, I wish he was further along still.

As for Diehl, I'm gonna go back and look at those first two pass plays, but besides that I think he played well. If he was terrible on those two plays, he definitely improved as the game went on.

Other things. Kiwi did look bad. They exposed him on the first preaseason game. Not good. Kiwi will have to expect more of that, because Dallas will be drooling over tape of that game. Besides one bad play on a stunt, Marcus Bell looked decent. When they signed him, I didn't think he had a spot on this team, but with Joseph playing DE, I think he will make the squad. Speaking of Joseph, he looked good to me. Made one nice play that stood out in my head two days later, where he got in and moved laterally to make a nice play on the RB behind the LOS. Also this Dahl guy sucks. I know a lot of people were excited to have him, but he just can't cut it. I'd also like to see Ryan Grant give Bradshaw a run for his money but I doubt it happens because of Bradshaw's return ability as well. Grant seems to be fully healed. When we signed him two years ago out of Notre Dame, I thought we got lucky with a nice player, we'll see what happens. Also give time for Robert Douglas, he wasn't terrible and he definitely moves better than Finn and is a ton more athletic.

Finally, the Big Boss Man is going to be hard to cover. He needs to work on quite a few things, but you could already see that he is going to be mismatch for a lot of people attempting to cover him.
Yeah I forgot to mention Boss. He can turn out to be a nice steal for us in a year or 2 after development. I don't expect him to be a great blocker this year, but hopefully in a year or 2 he can become one. That would give us a formiddable 2 TE set which is my favorite base offense.
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Old 08-13-2007, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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Yeah I forgot to mention Boss. He can turn out to be a nice steal for us in a year or 2 after development. I don't expect him to be a great blocker this year, but hopefully in a year or 2 he can become one. That would give us a formiddable 2 TE set which is my favorite base offense.
He is just very athletic and it showed on the field. His blocking obviously needs work but I think his concentration does too. Someone who went to camp told me he is extremely cocky. I dunno if I believe it or not. Either way on the PI called against him, it was just a complete mismatch against Tim Shaw, a linebacker from Penn State many of us considering pre draft.

Someone on another board mentioned this formation for use inside the 10 yard line in the red zone. Plax and Boss split out wide on each side. Bring our 6th O-lineman in at guard (most likely Piller), so we can have Seubert and Shockey at TE. So you have twin TEs, With Plax and Boss out wide, and Jacobs single back. The safeties would have to respect the fade to both Plax AND Boss. If they start cheating presnap to the sideline you can pound Jacobs up the middle with a power line since Richie is at TE. It made me think a bit.

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Old 08-13-2007, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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He is just very athletic and it showed on the field. His blocking obviously needs work but I think his concentration does too. Someone who went to camp told me he is extremely cocky. I dunno if I believe it or not. Either way on the PI called against him, it was just a complete mismatch against Tim Shaw, a linebacker from Penn State many of us considering pre draft.

Someone on another board mentioned this formation for use inside the 10 yard line in the red zone. Plax and Boss split out wide on each side. Bring our 6th O-lineman in at guard (most likely Piller), so we can have Seubert and Shockey at TE. So you have twin TEs, With Plax and Boss out wide, and Jacobs single back. The safeties would have to respect the fade to both Plax AND Boss. If they start cheating presnap to the sideline you can pound Jacobs up the middle with a power line since Richie is at TE. It made me think a bit.
That could work. The safeties have to respect the quick slants. If you put Boss out wide on the same side as Shockey, and slant both of them, one of them will have man with their guy, which is a mismatch. One will pull the safety, the other either has a CB or a LB on him. I can see that working. Or heck, it can work with Burress too.
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Old 08-13-2007, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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Besides one bad play on a stunt, Marcus Bell looked decent. When they signed him, I didn't think he had a spot on this team, but with Joseph playing DE, I think he will make the squad. Speaking of Joseph, he looked good to me. Made one nice play that stood out in my head two days later, where he got in and moved laterally to make a nice play on the RB behind the LOS.
Maybe I watched a different game, but I thought Bell looked awful. He had a horrible start and got pushed off the line but eventually settled down. Good thing he isn't a starter and I suppose he'll be a decent situational guy.

Joseph looked good? He's good at the bullrush, can't defend the run for anything. Basically every big run to his side was because he got pushed around and couldn't recover. Joseph wasn't overly impressive.

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He did decent on run blocking, but his pass protection was weak. He was getting beat a fair amount of times. And mind you, this is against 2nd and 3rd stringers. What would he do against the 1st string?
He didn't get beat "a fair amount of times". He might have gotten beat once or twice but a lot of times he kept his man in front of him and offered good protection for the Hefty Lefty. Whimper didn't give up a sack. Maybe a few pressures but no sacks.

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Thats why I still believe he would be 3 on any other team's depth chart. Your backups should be able to somewhat handle starters in the NFL. Whimper at this stage in his development would get destroyed by starters. Its one thing if he did that against starters, I could say yeah maybe he can develop, but if youre doing that with 2nd and 3rd stringers, you are not backup worthy.
How many backup tackles in the league are truly capable of handling LT duties if the guy in front of them got injured. You talk about Bob Whitfield - his head butting was the biggest problem but he got beat a fair amount of times as well.
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Old 08-13-2007, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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Whats up guys....haven't been around much and won't be back for good for another 2 weeks-

Only got to watch the 1st quarter and I walked away very disappointed.

-Diehl was getting beat by Stanley McClover, an everage 2nd string DE whom I did like in the 2006 draft, but there aren't many, if any DEs that Diehl will face that are worse than him. Needs to do a better jump defending his inside shoulder.

-Eli looked solid but how much can you come up with when you throw the ball 5 times? Did throw one bad pass but the TD and the flat pass to Douglas were both crisp and on the numbers. I think once he has his top two WRs out there, we'll be seeing a very good QB.

-Seubert....ugh I wish he was still the backup/3rd TE. I like him and how hew plays, but he just isn't that good. But he is the best we've got in there.

-Really liked the Moss reverse....if he gets just a little amount of room on the side to run (AKA if Plax or Toomer were blocking) he would have opened eyes. If Eli can consistently find him in dead spots, he is going to open things up for us BIG TIME. Can't stress enough how important he is to this offense. We haven't had explosion on this offense that he brings since I have watched this team.

-Osi looks like a monster, problem is William Joseph was playing DE on the other side. Ugh that gives me goosebumps. Strahan's situation will be a difference maker in the performance of our D-line....but another guy I am kleeping the eyeball on is Cofield. He needs to play better than he did Sat. night. He was getting beat off the ball consistently.

-I really like Mitchell, he'll be a solid, solid contributor for us.

-The SAM spot....I am going to have to wait on. The Kiwi project is going to take patience....something a lot of Giants fans refuse to have. I'm not one for throwing a rook in there to start, at least right away, so DeOssie is a no for me right now. Blackburn can't play the SAM....and although he is a beast, he might be better suited as our 4th LB. Possibly...we could move Mitchell to SAM and Blackburn to WILL but that's only if Kiwi really doesn't progress over the next few weeks.

-CB situation is scaring me a bit...I'm thinking Ross will eventually get his shot, hopefully sonner rather than later.
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Old 08-13-2007, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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-CB situation is scaring me a bit...I'm thinking Ross will eventually get his shot, hopefully sonner rather than later.
The safeties are scaring me more than the CBs. They were late to everything. Starters and reserves alike. Hopefully they just need to shake off some rust and catch up to game speed.
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