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Old 08-20-2007, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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Default PS Game 2 Discussion

Might as well start up another thread.

-Eli looked very sharp and very accurate. Considering the circumstances (the oline play plus defense he was playing) he did very well. Liked his pocket presence, liked his accuracy, and mechanics.

-Oline continues to struggle on the left side. They picked it up in the 2nd quarter, but we also left extra guys in to help, which is why they did better. Diehl had a rough day, he was getting abused out there early. But I also noticed, its not just Diehl, its Seaburt. Seaburt was getting destroyed all game. I know us Giants fans love him and root for him, but to be honest, at this point in his career he's not that great of a player. He's not. We can't run on the leftside at all because Seaburt is not pulling, and Deal can't seal the outside. Thats a major issue because with poor run blocking on that side, that could make our run selection more predictable and result in a dropoff in production.

As for pass protection, Diehl is just not doing a good job sealing the outside speed rush. And Seaburt is letting ILB blitzes come right up the gut. He consistently gets pushed backwards and allows pressure up the middle. This could be a serious hindrance on our playcalling selection this year.


-Which leads me to this. If you noticed, we're doing alot more 3step drops and WCO this year. I actually like this. I wanted us to do this so badly last year bc I felt our playbook was far too vertical. However, the reason why we're doing it isn't too exciting. We can't do any 5 step drops because its rather obvious the oline will struggle holding up in that type of scheme. And because of that, we have a serious hindrance on our play selection. Even when Eli drops back 3 steps, he's getting pressure in his face. Thats not a good sign. If we're ever in a situation where we need to start going vertical, it seems like our oline isn't up to task to get the job done this year. I will give them this though, they did settle down and play better as the game went on. But Im still worried about the oline. Im taking a more pessimistic approach to the Giants this season. And to be honest, I just don't think we're a very good team this year, not from what Ive seen so far at least. We have poor trench play on both sides.

-Which leads me to the defense. Interior dline is still a major issue. With Tuck and Osi, we seal the offtackle runs very well and get great pressure, but the inside run lanes continue to be wide open. Our DTs keep getting pushed around inside and Pierce quite honestly hasn't been impressing me at all this year. He's not making plays on the RBs, he's not shedding blocks very well, and he's the one who completely whiffed his gap on that one large run. Our perimeter defense is fine, but the run defense up the middle is below average right now, and thats the most important aspect of any defense. So that could be a problem if something isn't figured out.

-Kiwi looked much better against the run. He still needs work in coverage, but we limited that by blitzing him alot. He blitzed alot in that game. It definately caused alot of disruption in the pass game. One issue is however, bc we're blitzing our SAM so much, thats putting Pierce in man coverage with the TE. Thats not good. He can't cover very well at all. Its different from last year (last year he defended the deep middle Tampa 2 style) but the results will be the same, the TE will be open all day. TE coverage will be an issue for us this year depending on our CB development. I think ideally, Spags wants a Safety on the TE, but he doesn't trust his CBs in Cover 0 enough to do that, so he puts Pierce on the TE for now. The development of our CBs and how they play will either fix or accelerate this problem during the season.


Basically, our main issues are our interior run defense, and our pass protection/run blocking on the leftside of the oline. I think those 2 aspects will make or break our season. Outsiders will tell you its Eli or bust, but its really not. Those 2 factors above are the real determinants of how we do this year.

I still believe we need to make that trade with Cleveland so we can move Diehl back inside. And our DT situation, I really have no solution for it. I would think that Spags needs to reintroduce the NT to our dline, bc his system isn't hacking it. Either that or get Tank Williams after 6 games. Thats the only 2 things I can think of.
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Old 08-20-2007, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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I think the DTs played a ton better last night. However just Robbins and Cofield. Robbins was pentrating although sometimes missing once he got back there. Either way he was breaking through the line and causing havoc. Cofield seemed to hold his ground a lot better as well. And that Manny Wright play was pretty sick. Although only one play. Lets hope for the best with him. Joseph and Bell looked bad. Can't remember Alford standing out and I'm pissed I forgot to tape the game so I can go back and look.

Eli looked good to me. Getting away from the pressure that one time was pretty impressive. 10 completion for over 120 yards seems like a little more than just short passes or dumps. He was moving chains and that was what it was all about. And the TD pass to Smith he had to thread the needle on. That was not an easy throw.

Kiwi improved a ton. Right from the first play of the game. He drove Todd Heap backwards and right into Willis McGahee which allowed other to come in and blow the play up behind the LOS. Lets hope we see more of that and not the Kiwi from last week.
Yeah, Eli definately did make plays downfield. But unlike last year, we're mixing up the routes alot better this year. At least in PS. No more 4 guys deep mumbo jumbo. Well less of it I should say. I still think we need to call more plays for Shockey though. Its a shame what happened to Jennings. He looked actually very impressive out there. I was surprised. Its a shame to see that happen to guys who worked so hard.

Kiwi did improve a ton. I am quite surprised. I was hoping for improvement, but not that much improvement. He came out with alot of fire, he was really determined to play much better this time around. His coverage can still use some work though, but hopefully that comes with time. Id honestly move him to WILL and Kawika to SAM. That way Kiwi's coverage responsibilities aren't as big. Speaking of which, Kawika looked real good out there.
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Old 08-20-2007, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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Also did it seem like both teams were showing more blitzes than we are accustomed to seeing in week 2 during the preseason? I think it caught both O-lines off guard. And it didn't seem like any adjustments were made for it. Probably because its only preseason and they have a plan of what plays they want to run on offense so adjustments aren't crucial. Either way the O-line needs to improve. But I think it will a bit once we start mixing play action (did we run it once last night?) and draws, etc to keep defenses off guard.
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Old 08-20-2007, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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Also did it seem like both teams were showing more blitzes than we are accustomed to seeing in week 2 during the preseason? I think it caught both O-lines off guard. And it didn't seem like any adjustments were made for it. Probably because its only preseason and they have a plan of what plays they want to run on offense so adjustments aren't crucial. Either way the O-line needs to improve. But I think it will a bit once we start mixing play action (did we run it once last night?) and draws, etc to keep defenses off guard.
Baltimore definately blitzed alot as did we. Heck, we mightve blitzed like 85% of the time. Baltimore blitzing so much was good bc it gave our oline more work. I think we did one or 2 PA passes from what I remember, not as many as last year. Most of our PA passes are 5 step drops, so Im not sure if the coaching staff had enough faith in doing it alot this time around.

I noticed we ran a rollout to the right side. We might see more of that this year. It was a solid throw, surprisingly Toomer of all ppl dropped a pass that hit his chest. That was a fluke though, Amani will be ready by the regular season.

I really wanna see Smith get legitimate playing time this year. That kid is a player. He was an excellent pickup.
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Old 08-20-2007, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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Oh, and Ross, while going through growing pains yesterday, I liked his game alot. Hes a good tackler, he's physical, and his game speed is faster than I thought. He still needs technique work and game experience, so I expect him to be nothing more than a nickel CB for the first 8 games of the season, but in the longterm, I think he'll be a good player.
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Old 08-20-2007, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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Oh, and Ross, while going through growing pains yesterday, I liked his game alot. Hes a good tackler, he's physical, and his game speed is faster than I thought. He still needs technique work and game experience, so I expect him to be nothing more than a nickel CB for the first 8 games of the season, but in the longterm, I think he'll be a good player.
Ross is a lot smaller in uniform than I initially realized. They were going after him the first 3 plays and he did pretty well. On one incomplete pass Ross jumped and he had some vertical on it. Dockery also played pretty good.

I wanted Smith a month or two before the draft and I am so happy we got him. He is is going to be a very good weapon for Eli to have. Only if Sinorice can stay healthy our WR corps this year would be above average including Shockey.
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Old 08-20-2007, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Also it looks like to me that both Mix and Michael Matthews made this team last night. Between Mix's play these first two games and Jennings injury, he seems like a lock because none of the other UDFAs (McMahan, London, etc) have stood out. Matthews can plain out block and he had one catch. With Johnson's injury and the fact that Boss is a work in progress with his blocking, I think he made the team too.
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Old 08-20-2007, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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Also it looks like to me that both Mix and Michael Matthews made this team last night. Between Mix's play these first two games and Jennings injury, he seems like a lock because none of the other UDFAs (McMahan, London, etc) have stood out. Matthews can plain out block and he had one catch. With Johnson's injury and the fact that Boss is a work in progress with his blocking, I think he made the team too.
Mathews blocks were impressive. Our Fullback (Im forgetting his name) didn't look too bad either. I would still prefer a power FB, but that can wait a year.


I completely forgot to keep an eye out for Alford, DeOssie, and Underwood. Any sightings of those guys?

Its so hard evaluating all 11 guys at once without looking back at the tape.
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Old 08-20-2007, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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Ross is a lot smaller in uniform than I initially realized. They were going after him the first 3 plays and he did pretty well. On one incomplete pass Ross jumped and he had some vertical on it. Dockery also played pretty good.

I wanted Smith a month or two before the draft and I am so happy we got him. He is is going to be a very good weapon for Eli to have. Only if Sinorice can stay healthy our WR corps this year would be above average including Shockey.
My main concern with him was if he had the gamespeed to keep up with speedy receivers. Other than that, I felt he had great potential. The only CB I liked more than him in this draft was Chris Houston, and i fluctuated on rating Revis higher than him. Not sure how either of those guys are doing right now.

But Ross's game speed was better than I thought. So I was happy to see that.
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Old 08-20-2007, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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Mathews blocks were impressive. Our Fullback (Im forgetting his name) didn't look too bad either. I would still prefer a power FB, but that can wait a year.


I completely forgot to keep an eye out for Alford, DeOssie, and Underwood. Any sightings of those guys?

Its so hard evaluating all 11 guys at once without looking back at the tape.
I can't recall DeOssie in regular defensive time. He was getting downfield quick though after snapping the punts. Always one of the first guys, which is a nice bonus we aren't used to having.

Can't recall anythign from Alford.

Underwood made a nice openfield hit on Figurs. Other than that, Dockery got more PT than him.

I like Douglas as well. I hope we keep him and not sign a FB that is cut from another team. Douglas is listed at 230 but he claims he is more like 245. He doesn't look it. If he is really 245, I think he can def get up to 255, it looks like he has room for the weight. You can see how much more of an athelte he is than Finn. He can be used more than Finn as a check down.
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Old 08-20-2007, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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I only saw Underwood and Deossie make plays on Special Teams. Deossie was slightly hurt so they may have kept him out of the regular defense. I don't remember Alford making one play but maybe because I was watching Wright towards the end of the game. I thought Revis was the best corner in the draft but he hasn't played at all yet since he just signed.
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Old 08-20-2007, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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I forgot to mention this but I thought Bradshaw looked excellent at the end of the game. Very good speed and acceleration. He really turned the corner on that one long run of his.
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Old 08-20-2007, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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I forgot to mention this but I thought Bradshaw looked excellent at the end of the game. Very good speed and acceleration. He really turned the corner on that one long run of his.
Him and Ward looked good. Madden said Ward might be deserving of the 2 spot over Droughns. I can't say I disagree after seeing his performance yesterday.

I want to see Bradshaw get some reps against legit competition, in the 2nd quarter. Its hard to get a read on him when he's coming in on the 4th.
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Old 08-20-2007, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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Him and Ward looked good. Madden said Ward might be deserving of the 2 spot over Droughns. I can't say I disagree after seeing his performance yesterday.

I want to see Bradshaw get some reps against legit competition, in the 2nd quarter. Its hard to get a read on him when he's coming in on the 4th.
Your right but as well know the O-Line isn't as good either. I was always pretty high on Ward and thought he was a very good back. He runs very hard and has some shiftiness to him.
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Old 08-20-2007, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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Something I want to discuss that I forgot. Its about the Pierce/TE thing.


I saw us line up in some 4-3 Over, with Kiwi over the TE, however he blitzes out of that formation and Pierce picks the TE up. Essentially, the way its lined up, Pierce is in a pseudo MIKE/SAM position. And the WILL, Kawika Mitchell is in a pseduo MIKE/WILL position. Basiaclly like a base nickel LB front.

This formation is very susceptible to the 5-7 yard out patterns that TEs run bc Pierce simply does not have the speed to defend it.

Now, Wouldn't it make more sense to move Pierce at WILL in this position? Because then he's lined up in a more traditional MIKE role, and he'll be the guy who chases RBs out of the backfield, and Kawika Mitchell is the guy who picks up the TE.

By the naked eye it will seem like Pierce plays WILL, but its more of a MIKE/WILL hybrid position considering the location of his stance.

To be honest, so far I have been quite disappointed in Pierce's performance this PS. He looks a little heavy, he's slow, he's whiffed on some gaps, he's nt disengaging from blocks very well, and naturally not great in coverage. I wanna see improvement from him in Game 3.
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Old 08-20-2007, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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BBD, i agree Pierce is getting beat pretty badly by TE's. Granted last night was Heap, a top 10 TE, but the panthers TE is who? Magnum? ehh.

we need to use a scheme where Mitchell covers the TE. we have good TE's in our division(Witten, Smith, and sometimes Cooley). we cant let those guys go wild on us...
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Old 08-20-2007, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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-Eli looked sharp against a great defense that was playing as if that were the opening week of the season. The Ravens D was out for some head last night and with our line being a little sketchy, Eli stood in the face of pressure and performed well. Could have hit some targets in the numbers a little biut more but if he plays like that all season, he'll be a pro-bowler. No real complaints about him.

-Ugh I am praayyying BJ stays healthy. He is an absolute monster and some fans around the league are starting to have their jaws drop. He made #52 his b*itch.

-Not overly concerned about the line. By no means are they a top tier unit, but they won't be any worse than what we have had over the past 2 years. They should improve as the year goes on naturally and their sub par performance last night was more to do with a lack of pre game planning that goes into a preseason game. They simply were not ready for blitz packages that Ryan threw at them. The concern I have is the depth along the line, especially if Ruegamer is out for awhile with that ankle sprain. I like Piller, annd that's about it. Dunn, Koets, Whimper, Londot, Lentz...all got chewed up and I can't see them being reliable if called upon.

-Really like how our young DBs played, Ross and Underwood in particular. Ross is adimittedly insecure playing the nickel spot, but they threw him there after awhile on the outside and he held his own. If he does not start for us, I think he will come in on nickel packages but we'll throw McQuarters in the inside where he is better suited should Madison be out early on. Like Madden said, Ross should be a starter for this defense. He'll hit some bumps in the road, but I still love the kid's potential.

-I wouldn't be concerned about Pierce BBD....I think he is playing it safe to avoid injury honestly. He just isn't playing the the tenacity he usually does. Mitchell and Kiwanuka could help this D out mightily if they blitz like they did last night. Very quick, explosive.
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Old 08-20-2007, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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I hope so 10, because right here right now I haven't been impressed with him. I think our shoddy DT play has alot to do with it as well, but still.

Anyone think Tank Johnson can be a legit possibility on our team this year?
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Old 08-20-2007, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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I hope so 10, because right here right now I haven't been impressed with him. I think our shoddy DT play has alot to do with it as well, but still.

Anyone think Tank Johnson can be a legit possibility on our team this year?
No. Waste IMO.
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Old 08-20-2007, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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No. Waste IMO.
Well to be fair to him, he does fit our new system better than any current DT, so maybe he can work. Maybe offer like a one year tender to him, and dump him at the end of the year.

Thats only if our DT situation starts getting real bad. Its not there now, Im just throwing it out there as a possibility in case it does.
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Old 08-20-2007, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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BBD he's got A LOT of talent and he's young(25 or 26). he was never found guilty of any charges. its a reach but a possibility
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Old 08-20-2007, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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BBD he's got A LOT of talent and he's young(25 or 26). he was never found guilty of any charges. its a reach but a possibility
Its more of a last resort thing to me. I wouldn't consider it unless it was an absolute necessity. Let's hope it doesn't turn out that way.

He has talent, and I think he fits this system better than Coffield or Robbins does, but we have enough problems on the Giants. His talent is a little exaggerated though, he's not like dominant or anything. Just solid.

Again, Id only consider it as a last resort kind of thing.

Trading for Schaffer however....Im still lobbying for that to happen. I think we'd be better off doing that.

In a related note...damn, Gaither was taken in the 5th. In the 5th....He got help against Osi, but still, for the most part I was impressed with him doing well enough to play with the starters as a rookie, and taking on Osi Umenyiora in his first start. He might be the real deal after a year of development. Damn you Ozzie.
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Old 08-20-2007, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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i agree with Gaither. think we should've gotten him. But Diehl hasnt looked too bad really so far. Last night he did OK against Suggs, a top defender in the league. granted he'll have to face Ware, but i think with more time, he'll excell here. On the other hand, I'm worried about Richy 69. he hasnt looked impressive at all...
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Old 08-20-2007, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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There was a reason why I wanted Gaither in the 3rd round....let alone 5th.

I have watched both of their preseason games and he impressed me in both. Him at LT and Diehl at LG with Seubert in last year's role would give me much more confidence in the starting gropu and in the depth.
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Old 08-20-2007, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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There was a reason why I wanted Gaither in the 3rd round....let alone 5th.

I have watched both of their preseason games and he impressed me in both. Him at LT and Diehl at LG with Seubert in last year's role would give me much more confidence in the starting gropu and in the depth.
Yeah, nothin we can do about it now. I guess its Jake Long ftw.

Too bad we'd need a top 5 pick for that, and I don't want to be in that position =/. But right now on my big board, I have LT as the most glaring need.
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