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Old 10-25-2007, 02:19 PM    (permalink
cowboysforever
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The fact that we have been a fairly dominant defense for much of the year.
Well, I think this where many of us part ways.

The two best Offenses we have played have LIT US UP.

The teams we are "dominating defensively" are quite bad offensively.

We will not be playing the Rams, Dolphins, Bills, or Vikings in the playoffs -- nor will we be playing them to win the Division.

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Old 10-25-2007, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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Despite what some conspiracy theorists or self-proclaimed psychologists assert, our staff and management put the players on the field that they think give us the best chance to win. Its as simple as that.
Maybe but the fact many fans see players like Spears and Roy Williams playing when it seems the backups are better suited ..... causes questions to be asked. And fact is, 10 of 11 starters on Defense are the highest paid for their spot.

But if you look at other teams around the NFL, backups frequently move in and take over for over priced underperformers or guys teams just let go.

But more interestingly, if How Much You Pay a Player has no bearing on their playing then why is it so hard for team to "Take the Cap Hit?"

It is an acknowledgement that when you pay a guy and they don't perform you still keep them around until it becomes painful enuff keeping them there.

The Bledsoe benching incident with Fans/Media calling for Romo early on based on what they saw ..... then the Coach finally giving in ..... then (and last) the GM acknowledging it as a good move.

It was not until we had major major major pain that change became possible.
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Old 10-25-2007, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Well, I think this where many of us part ways.

The two best Offenses we have played have LIT US UP.

The teams we are "dominating defensively" are quite bad offensively.

We will not be playing the Rams, Dolphins, Bills, or Vikings in the playoffs -- nor will we be playing them to win the Division.

We were also playing without one of our Starting CB's in both games and think that that has had a ton of influence on our defense in general. The things I look at are:
Ronnie Brown - 33yds rushing - 0 TD (has rushed for 100+yds in every game since)
Adrian Peterson - 63yds rushing - 1 TD (has rushed for in all but one game and had 200yds against the Bears)

Those are the NFL's two leading rushers, and combined, they didn't muster 100 yards.

Has our Pass defense been spectacular? Not against good teams, but we've also been missing a key starter in our DB every game, so it's hard to really judge. However, we're 8th in the NFL in Sacks with 18, 1st in the NFL in Interceptions with 10, and Top 5 in Passes Defended with 42 - So I'd say we're doing pretty well.
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Old 10-25-2007, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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We were also playing without one of our Starting CB's in both games and think that that has had a ton of influence on our defense in general. The things I look at are:
Ronnie Brown - 33yds rushing - 0 TD (has rushed for 100+yds in every game since)
Adrian Peterson - 63yds rushing - 1 TD (has rushed for in all but one game and had 200yds against the Bears)

Those are the NFL's two leading rushers, and combined, they didn't muster 100 yards.

Has our Pass defense been spectacular? Not against good teams, but we've also been missing a key starter in our DB every game, so it's hard to really judge. However, we're 8th in the NFL in Sacks with 18, 1st in the NFL in Interceptions with 10, and Top 5 in Passes Defended with 42 - So I'd say we're doing pretty well.
Fair point but do you really think Anthony Henry will make that big a difference?

I don't buy it b/c Anthony is not that good a corner anymore and his CONSTANT injuries have/are taking their toll.

Funny enough Anthony may make a better FS right now than CB but it won't happen till the offeseason if at all.
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Old 10-25-2007, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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Fair point but do you really think Anthony Henry will make that big a difference?

I don't buy it b/c Anthony is not that good a corner anymore and his CONSTANT injuries have/are taking their toll.

Funny enough Anthony may make a better FS right now than CB but it won't happen till the offeseason if at all.
He is tied for 2nd in the NFL with 4 picks, 1 for a TD, and while he may not be elite, he's 100x better then Reeves or Jones. I wouldn't mind seeing him moved to FS next year if we pick up a CB in FA like Asomuga or Hall, but I'm not sure ANYONE in the Draft is going to take the job away from him or be able to handle the pressure they'd be under opposite of Newman. Therefore, he has to stay there, our draft pick goes to nickle CB until he can win the position over.
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Old 10-25-2007, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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He is tied for 2nd in the NFL with 4 picks, 1 for a TD, and while he may not be elite, he's 100x better then Reeves or Jones. I wouldn't mind seeing him moved to FS next year if we pick up a CB in FA like Asomuga or Hall, but I'm not sure ANYONE in the Draft is going to take the job away from him or be able to handle the pressure they'd be under opposite of Newman. Therefore, he has to stay there, our draft pick goes to nickle CB until he can win the position over.
Funny enuff but Henry/Brown to FS and Hamlin/Watkins to SS would make me very happy. 10X improve in coverage skills whether Base or Nickel or Dime.

TNew + Reeves + FA or Draft Pick in Nickel and Nate Jones in Dime ............. At least we have a shot at covering the TE and 1 WR in man coverage.

Would be a pretty good secondary if combined with an above average pass rush.

I am happy for Henry but he is not man up corner in a WP system. He can play bump but better off sitting in a zone reading the QB's eyes than trying to acelerate with WR like Plaxico or Moss ......

He does have a feel for the ball.... which is why FS does makes sense if you are looking to avoid spending any more money on Safety. Played it at USF.

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Old 10-25-2007, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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Funny enuff but Henry/Brown to FS and Hamlin/Watkins to SS would make me very happy. 10X improve in coverage skills whether Base or Nickel or Dime.

TNew + Reeves + FA or Draft Pick in Nickel and Nate Jones in Dime ............. At least we have a shot at covering the TE and 1 WR in man coverage.

Would be a pretty good secondary if combined with an above average pass rush.
I have to admit, I'm not 100% sure what our DB style is, but I'm under the impression it's typically a Cover 3 or Cover 1.

That being said, Roy Williams is the PERFECT SS prospect but Hamlin is a HORRIBLE FS prospect - Hamlin should be a ball hawk like Sean Taylor, who is fast, can stay behind WR's, and read the play. Roy should be a hard hitting, run stopper who can punish anyone coming across the middle or taking a dump off pass.

The problem is, Hamlin isn't a good FS and when we put Roy into a Cover 2 or Tampa 2 (not sure which we use) he falters. I forsee Hamlin being gone and Roy being kept at SS and played to his strenghts, but we really can't do that till we have that Ballhawk at FS that we so desperately need.
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Old 10-25-2007, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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I have to admit, I'm not 100% sure what our DB style is, but I'm under the impression it's typically a Cover 3 or Cover 1.

That being said, Roy Williams is the PERFECT SS prospect but Hamlin is a HORRIBLE FS prospect - Hamlin should be a ball hawk like Sean Taylor, who is fast, can stay behind WR's, and read the play. Roy should be a hard hitting, run stopper who can punish anyone coming across the middle or taking a dump off pass.

The problem is, Hamlin isn't a good FS and when we put Roy into a Cover 2 or Tampa 2 (not sure which we use) he falters. I forsee Hamlin being gone and Roy being kept at SS and played to his strenghts, but we really can't do that till we have that Ballhawk at FS that we so desperately need.
Roy Williams is not a Safety and in today's NFL a horrible SS candidate.

SS need to cover. The days of a pure "In-the-box" Safety are essentially over. He is a dinosaur. An anachronism.

Hamlin is a good SS candidate and so is Watkins ... in fact I love Watkins potential particularly lining up over the TE. Long legs and fast, a bit of a strider and not quick into and out of breaks but most TEs are similar.

Will say Hamlin is better in runs upport than Pat.
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Old 10-25-2007, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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Here is an interesting tidbit. Wade makes it sound like it's hard to make a switch when you winning...who wouldn't argue. No sense pissing off someone who is playing above average..with another player who may be an upgrade...or could backfire.

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Does Hatcher have a knack for big plays?
He’s at the right place at right time. He retuned the Ellis sack fumble last week and forced a fumble this week. We think he’s a good player. (Is he pushing Spears for playing time?) We got a good combination there. You don’t always see everything that happens.

What does it take for you to actually change starters?
I try to look at the big picture. Some of it is chemistry within the team, it’s a lot of different things. If you’re winning it’s hard to change, when you lose there is always blame to pass around. If we’re not losing then maybe the guys are doing a good enough job.
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Old 10-25-2007, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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Roy Williams is not a Safety and in today's NFL a horrible SS candidate.

SS need to cover. The days of a pure "In-the-box" Safety are essentially over. He is a dinosaur. An anachronism.

Hamlin is a good SS candidate and so is Watkins ... in fact I love Watkins potential particularly lining up over the TE. Long legs and fast, a bit of a strider and not quick into and out of breaks but most TEs are similar.

Will say Hamlin is better in runs upport than Pat.

Here we go again and again and again.....Yawn
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Old 10-25-2007, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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Here is an interesting tidbit. Wade makes it sound like it's hard to make a switch when you winning...who wouldn't argue. No sense pissing off someone who is playing above average..with another player who may be an upgrade...or could backfire. from btb
Thule, I not know how you feel about this, but the problem with WP's "it ain't broke comments" is that players do begin to feel that it is not performance which drives decisions on who plays. That is the meritocracy fails.

Seen it before when back-ups are just performing better and coaches refuse to budge. They lose the team and end up removing motivation from the daily grind.

MBIII and Hatcher come to mind of individuals who clearly are better play makers .... but since they were drafted in later rounds and a bit younger ......... they are getting the shaft. Totally getting screwed.

In fact, Hatcher came screaming off the field for more playing time after the strip of Peterson. You can say it was "adrenelin" but do not think other players did not take notice.
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Old 10-25-2007, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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Here we go again and again and again.....Yawn
I guess you are one of those fans who can not let go of your images of Roy playing at Oklahoma. Still living in the past. Imaging what he never will be.

Roy is a dinosaur who plays best in odd Defensive formations that make him a LB on obvious passing downs.

What is your problem and constant baiting about? You ok?
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Old 10-25-2007, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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Thule, I not know how you feel about this, but the problem with WP's "it ain't broke comments" is that players do begin to feel that it is not performance which drives decisions on who plays. That is the meritocracy fails.

Seen it before when back-ups are just performing better and coaches refuse to budge. They lose the team and end up removing motivation from the daily grind.

MBIII and Hatcher come to mind of individuals who clearly are better play makers .... but since they were drafted in later rounds and a bit younger ......... they are getting the shaft. Totally getting screwed.

In fact, Hatcher came screaming off the field for more playing time after the strip of Peterson. You can say it was "adrenelin" but do not think other players did not take notice.
You do realize that MB3 got more touches than JJ last game right....who gives a hoot who starts....the best players will get on the field and play....Wade has done that. It's just the whole starting arguement...and honestly who cares.
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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You do realize that MB3 got more touches than JJ last game right....who gives a hoot who starts....the best players will get on the field and play....Wade has done that. It's just the whole starting arguement...and honestly who cares.
I did not specify start or not but who plays is key and it goes without saying to most folks say "I am a starter" means you play most of the time..... regardless ....

If MBIII looks fresh and can take more carries away from Julius while playing "At a Pro Bowl" level then what is the obsession with playing Jones at all?

Same with Hatcher. If you have a DE who is making plays then what the hell is he doing sitting most of the game behind an underperforming first rounder?

Hatcher and MBIII deserve as many snaps as they can physically take. I would not say this is occuring at this time and shame on WP for this.

I remember a coach routinely bashed for being too stubborn to change so why is WP getting a pass on this .............

This whole thread reminds me of the Romo discussion from last year. Alwasy a reason why Bledsoe should start except for the one reason he should be benched. Team plays better with the alternative.

We play better with Hatcher and MBIII.

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Old 10-25-2007, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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Roy Williams is not a Safety and in today's NFL a horrible SS candidate.

SS need to cover. The days of a pure "In-the-box" Safety are essentially over. He is a dinosaur. An anachronism.

Hamlin is a good SS candidate and so is Watkins ... in fact I love Watkins potential particularly lining up over the TE. Long legs and fast, a bit of a strider and not quick into and out of breaks but most TEs are similar.

Will say Hamlin is better in runs upport than Pat.
Hamlin is a poor-man's Roy Williams and is no better at coverage and worse at run support. Why would you want Hamlin at SS?
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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Hamlin is a poor-man's Roy Williams and is no better at coverage and worse at run support. Why would you want Hamlin at SS?
Hamlin is much better in coverage than Roy and certainly in a SS capacity.

Thought anyone else?
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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Roy will be our SS until his contract is done imo...when can ***** and moan about it all year long it's not going to change what the organization feels about him.
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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Hamlin is much better in coverage than Roy and certainly in a SS capacity.

Thought anyone else?
Why are we even discussing Hamlin at SS? Roy's not going anywhere...
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Old 10-25-2007, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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Why are we even discussing Hamlin at SS? Roy's not going anywhere...
Because it is a blog for fans who want to play Head Scout, GM, Coach, OC, DC and anything else ........... Just a discussion. Plus who said Roy is going anywhere but Church, McDonald's and Texas Stadium.

Thule, IMHO, Roy does not make it past 2008 as the starting SS for the Cowboys.
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Old 10-25-2007, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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I

We play better with Hatcher ....


Hamlin is much better in coverage than Roy and certainly in a SS capacity

I would be absolutely fascinated to hear your "proof" of these statements. Just fascinated.
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Old 10-25-2007, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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I guess you are one of those fans who can not let go of your images of Roy playing at Oklahoma. Still living in the past. Imaging what he never will be.

Roy is a dinosaur who plays best in odd Defensive formations that make him a LB on obvious passing downs.

What is your problem and constant baiting about? You ok?

My problem is that you repeat yourself over and over and over, regardless if you go by Rob or Cowboysforever. We've been hearing it for it seems like years now. We know you hate Roy and he's not going anywhere. Its just time to move on thats all.
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Old 10-25-2007, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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I would be absolutely fascinated to hear your "proof" of these statements. Just fascinated.
Well -- on Hamlin and Roy -- the fact Roy play LB on obvious passing downs and Hamlin plays Safety says something. I would assume Roy as LB in coverage downs while Hamlin and Watkins plays safety says it all.

The fact Hamlin is a FS in base D usually means the guy covers better than the SS.

Somehow, I did not think it was a debate that Hamlin covers better than Roy.

But what do I know ....

On Hatcher ... well he has two more big plays this year than Marcus with much much much less snaps.

Marcus does lead the team in inflamatory rhetoric to piss off the Patriots however. Plus him and Julia are about tied ex-HC bashing. Two f**king poontangs if you ask me.

But again, what do I know ......
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Old 10-25-2007, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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My problem is that you repeat yourself over and over and over, regardless if you go by Rob or Cowboysforever. We've been hearing it for it seems like years now. We know you hate Roy and he's not going anywhere. Its just time to move on thats all.
Not to open the debate on who is who but focus on the main issue ....

If we wish to win a SuperBowl then building a DB Corps that can cover is essential.

Right now, we do not have a DB Corps that can cover.

It is the NUMBER REASON we won't win the big one and have trouble in the playoffs.

I just thought that concept was important. I guess I am wrong.

Maybe we can talk about Tank's guns some more. Or Romo's girlfriends. Or the new stadium.

What do I know.
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Old 10-25-2007, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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Not to open the debate on who is who but focus on the main issue ....

If we wish to win a SuperBowl then building a DB Corps that can cover is essential.

Right now, we do not have a DB Corps that can cover.

It is the NUMBER REASON we won't win the big one and have trouble in the playoffs.

What do I know.

Well the goal is to win a superbowl, but lets focus on winning the division first. We havent won a playoff game in what 10 years? We might have trouble in the playoffs but the playoffs arent easy no matter who you are. (S.D. last year) We are not a perfect team but are building towards being a SuperBowl contender. We have alot of great things going for us right now but it seem all some people want to talk about is Roy and Spears. Personally I see a very good team with the potential to be great AND we have 2 first rounders next year.
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Old 10-25-2007, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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Regardless of what our weaknesses are, it should still carry us to the super bowl, we just need to work on weak areas to strengthen this team, but I think we are definately headed in the right direction, I truly believe we can win a super bowl with Roy and Spears...both have their bright spots and weakness...


Find me a team you cant find a weakness on, and ill take you back to the mid nineties, last year the Colts were giving up 200 rushing yds a game, but they got it together when it mattered, we have problems stopping the passing game, id say our problem isnt that bad when we have both our db's and get pressure...of course its always fun to talk about what we need 2 improve, and thats justifiable, but no need in griping about it like were 4 years from a playoff appearance...


And Rob the Roy stuff is old, no matter what name you post on...we know your feelings about Roy, Henry at FS, and Spears, you beat them to death every chance you get, its pointless to beat the same points over and over on another name as if its anything new
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Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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