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Old 09-13-2007, 05:13 PM    (permalink
TPFKA#1SaintsFan
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I agree with your analysis TPFKA. I thought it was absurd for the Saints to draft anyone on offense with their lack of talent at DT, LB and CB. Of course 99% of the posters on this board bashed me for saying they should have went CB no matter what. Chris Houston would've been exactly the physical and athletic man corner they needed, but now you guys are stuck with Jason David, Fred Thomas & Mike McKenzie (to a lesser degree) for another year. What happened to that guy who said Usama Young was the best thing since sliced bread and will start immediately? Those moments were enjoyable.
I caught so much flak for my outspokenness on how bad of a pick Meachem was from a few Saints fans around here after the draft. I'm not one to blindly agree with everything the team does just because I'm a fan; if anything, I think it makes me more of a fan to say hey, what the hell are we doing, guys? Unfortunately, those guys will be agreeing with me come January, if they aren't already after just week 1. We simply did not do enough to address the defense, and it WILL bite us in the ass.
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Old 09-13-2007, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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I respect someone who can have and defend their own opinion. Far too many people fall in line whenever their team makes a questionable decision, or a player comes under fire. Look at the Patriots fans for a text book example of falling in line to defend their team, at all cost.

Speaking of aforementioned Saints homers defending the Meachem pick, I remember one in particular was convinced that Usama Young was a much better player than Chris Houston. Yet, Houston is already playing (well I might add) and where is Young again? The Meachem pick is even worse considering they are not even going to play him anytime soon. They aren't that good that they can stash their draft picks on the bench for a few years.
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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I caught so much flak for my outspokenness on how bad of a pick Meachem was from a few Saints fans around here after the draft. I'm not one to blindly agree with everything the team does just because I'm a fan; if anything, I think it makes me more of a fan to say hey, what the hell are we doing, guys? Unfortunately, those guys will be agreeing with me come January, if they aren't already after just week 1. We simply did not do enough to address the defense, and it WILL bite us in the ass.
These kinds of fans are always eminent and evident after draft-day. Most fans really don't formulate their own opinions on the draft and its prospects, and if they do their knowledge is limited to 1st-round prospects. I criticized the Bucs draft for passing on talent like Kalil, Jarrett, Blalock, Houston, C. Johnson etc. (all picked up by CAR/ATL) and reaching on other prospects to fill needs. Most of the other fans on this site argued with me, saying how we have a new fountain of youth on defense. Tanard Jackson is the only player we drafted to have a positive impact so far (other than top-5 pick Gaines Adams), and coincidentally he's the only player I supported drafting. I bashed the Piscitelli pick and sure enough he's sitting on the bench while Jermaine Phillips stepped up his play, plus Sabby made two poor plays on ST. It's the fans who support anyone their team picks/signs who are the biggest homers and become the most disappointed and frustrated after failure. It's good to see some fans here with sober thought processes.

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I respect someone who can have and defend their own opinion. Far too many people fall in line whenever their team makes a questionable decision, or a player comes under fire. Look at the Patriots fans for a text book example of falling in line to defend their team, at all cost.

Speaking of aforementioned Saints homers defending the Meachem pick, I remember one in particular was convinced that Usama Young was a much better player than Chris Houston. Yet, Houston is already playing (well I might add) and where is Young again? The Meachem pick is even worse considering they are not even going to play him anytime soon. They aren't that good that they can stash their draft picks on the bench for a few years.
Exactly and exactly. I mentioned that guy before, and that's what I thought...where's Young now? That fan will most likely defend Young, saying he's just a small-school CB who needs time to learn the game. That brings up another one of my favorite things to see, persistent defense of a player. For example, the numerous Carolina fans who blame the offensive line for Carr's struggles, ignoring his play on the field and the length of his struggles.
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Old 09-14-2007, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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I didn't particularly like the Meachem pick either, but I thought it made sense at the time. The Saints needed a receiver to replace Joe Horn and he seemed like the best one on the board, but man I was wanting Puz or Houston (or even Greg Olsen) reeeeeally badly on draft day. I figured for sure they'd address defense first and snag a receiver in the second or something. I was majorly disappointed when they didn't take one of those guys.

Usama Young is playing nickelback right now I believe, btw. Hes shown flashes in camp (from what I've heard) but hes still pretty raw. Hes a pretty good prospect but to say he looked better than Chris Houston is absurd.

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Old 09-14-2007, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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I didn't particularly like the Meachem pick either, but I thought it made sense at the time. The Saints needed a receiver to replace Joe Horn and he seemed like the best one on the board, but man I was wanting Puz or Houston (or even Greg Olsen) reeeeeally badly on draft day. I figured for sure they'd address defense first and snag a receiver in the second or something. I was majorly disappointed when they didn't take one of those guys.
Why did the Saints need a receiver, exactly? They did more than fine with what they had last season, and all they lost was a washed-up and injury-prone Joe Horn, who didn't contribute all that much anyway. Patten alone is enough to replace the Joe Horn of today. Besides, Payton's offense doesn't really demand all-world receivers.

I'd go so far as to say that running back, quarterback, kicker and punter would have been the only positions that would have made for a worse first round pick.
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Old 09-14-2007, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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I didn't think they needed to take one in the first round. It just made a little bit of sense. After Colston they've got somewhat unproven guys. Henderson's got all the potential in the world, but hes so inconsistent it hurts.

Believe me though, I agree with you. I wanted a linebacker or a corner in the first round, especially considering who was still on the board. If Meachem would've made the most sense then it wouldn't be that big a deal.
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Old 09-14-2007, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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What adds insult to injury is they aren't even using Meachem or Young. Because of that the Saints haven't progressed, while Carolina has. Remember the Panthers actually did not finish that far behind the Saints last year and a few breaks here and there and they could easily surpass New Orleans.
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Old 09-14-2007, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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It's perplexing to say the least. The Saints needed upgrades and help at all defensive positions except DE, but they go out and draft a WR in the 1st and then proceed to grab another 3 offensive players out of 4 picks. You have McAllister, Bush & Stecker, why draft another RB who contributes little to special teams? What's even more pathetic is how they spent 2 mid-round picks on the offensive line despite having an improving core of young lineman in place already. Their defensive signings were also poor, as Simmons couldn't beat out Simoneau and Kaesviharn is a liability on coverage. Their best signing was...Eric Johnson, a TE. Sean Payton is a great playcaller and coach but he has to be careful not to neglect the defense and concentrate solely on his side of the ball, because Jon Gruden made similar moves and it cost him. All Payton needed to do was add a couple of contributing pieces to help bolster the defense, but instead he just chose to add a project at CB and nothing else. That is not defendable by any fan.
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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Get rdy aints fans for the whoopin yall bout to get this sunday, where gonna shut down ur so called high power o, gaines gonna wreck havok on brees and brooks, ruud, cato gonna shut down bush and future bust colston WE MUST PROTECT THIS HOUSE
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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You guys do know that now that you've realized that the Saints were overhyped and the Panthers were not a team on the decline that Carolina is going to promptly get their asses kicked by Houston, yes? That's how they work.

...though actually Bill Simmons picked Houston to cover this weekend which means we'll probably win by 20. That guy basically controls the Carolina karma...I don't think he's picked a Panther game correctly since 2004.
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Old 09-14-2007, 11:18 PM    (permalink
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Get rdy aints fans for the whoopin yall bout to get this sunday, where gonna shut down ur so called high power o, gaines gonna wreck havok on brees and brooks, ruud, cato gonna shut down bush and future bust colston WE MUST PROTECT THIS HOUSE
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:45 AM    (permalink
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It's perplexing to say the least. The Saints needed upgrades and help at all defensive positions except DE, but they go out and draft a WR in the 1st and then proceed to grab another 3 offensive players out of 4 picks. You have McAllister, Bush & Stecker, why draft another RB who contributes little to special teams? What's even more pathetic is how they spent 2 mid-round picks on the offensive line despite having an improving core of young lineman in place already. Their defensive signings were also poor, as Simmons couldn't beat out Simoneau and Kaesviharn is a liability on coverage. Their best signing was...Eric Johnson, a TE. Sean Payton is a great playcaller and coach but he has to be careful not to neglect the defense and concentrate solely on his side of the ball, because Jon Gruden made similar moves and it cost him. All Payton needed to do was add a couple of contributing pieces to help bolster the defense, but instead he just chose to add a project at CB and nothing else. That is not defendable by any fan.
The worst part about it is.. that our first second day pick, who was another RB isn't even on the team anymore. Was beat out by an UDFA and then cut. I’m not ready to write off Meachem yet you can't really judge WRs their first season, but it is becoming more clear that he and our other rookies probably won’t contribute very much this season.

And with that said as a team we don't have the kind of luxury to be able to take that Draft approach yet.
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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Seems like the Saints are getting a lot of grief for the Meachem pick.

The team needs a long-term answer opposite Marques Colston. Devery Henderson and Terrance Cooper are reaching free agency, and both are short-term solutions at best. Plus I'm not entirely confident in Colston as a legit #1 in this league, truth be told, and his lack of pure speed is rearing his head. Enter Meachem.

Meachem isn't contributing much as a rookie: I'm sorry, that's just asinine. Wide receivers at least need a year to develop, if not two years. Putting up numbers like Colston did as a rookie is absolutely the exception to the rule, and anyone who would debate otherwise can check the league history stats for themselves. The Saints took Meachem now to prepare themselves for when Henderson and Copper are gone, I thought that was fairly obvious but apparently not.

I wouldn't have faulted the Saints for drafting Chris Houston, a talented cornerback prospect although a bit of a boom or bust pick. Scouting comes into play, and Houston didn't just fall coincidentally past 31 teams (as much as Mayock blew his lid about it). As for a linebacker? Eh, I'm not a really big fan of spending a 1st round pick on a linebacker - that's a position where there's a good chance the talent level doesn't drop off as much afterwards, or at least each draft class has great talent.
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Old 09-15-2007, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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Maybe Usama Young and Robert Meachem contribute down the road, but the NFC is to be had right now and the Saints did nothing to step up and take it.
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Old 09-15-2007, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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And what would Chris Houston have done, other than be the eventual replacement to Mike McKenzie (which the team does need)? The Saints already have a pretty good nickel corner in Jason Craft, Houston isn't better than him at that role.
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Old 09-15-2007, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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What about Paul Posluszny? While he doesn't have the ceiling that Meachem and Houston have, he was NFL ready coming out of the draft and certainly would've upgraded Mark Simoneau.
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Old 09-15-2007, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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Seems like the Saints are getting a lot of grief for the Meachem pick.

The team needs a long-term answer opposite Marques Colston. Devery Henderson and Terrance Cooper are reaching free agency, and both are short-term solutions at best. Plus I'm not entirely confident in Colston as a legit #1 in this league, truth be told, and his lack of pure speed is rearing his head. Enter Meachem.

Meachem isn't contributing much as a rookie: I'm sorry, that's just asinine. Wide receivers at least need a year to develop, if not two years. Putting up numbers like Colston did as a rookie is absolutely the exception to the rule, and anyone who would debate otherwise can check the league history stats for themselves. The Saints took Meachem now to prepare themselves for when Henderson and Copper are gone, I thought that was fairly obvious but apparently not.

I wouldn't have faulted the Saints for drafting Chris Houston, a talented cornerback prospect although a bit of a boom or bust pick. Scouting comes into play, and Houston didn't just fall coincidentally past 31 teams (as much as Mayock blew his lid about it). As for a linebacker? Eh, I'm not a really big fan of spending a 1st round pick on a linebacker - that's a position where there's a good chance the talent level doesn't drop off as much afterwards, or at least each draft class has great talent.
I didn't think it was too hard to grasp the concept either. The Saints are an offensive team -- in order to remain good at being an offensive team, you have to have weapons. Next year, there is a chance that our starting WRs could be Marques Colston and Lance Moore if we hadn't picked Meachem considering that Henderson, Patten, Copper all might be gone. I understood the logic behind selecting Meachem and even Pittman to some degree (no one knew Thomas would beat him out and I think he was selected to be groomed for McAllister's replacement). The only defensive player that I would have been delighted to have at 27 would have been Poz. Eh, I'm tired of debating the issue. It was a pick for the future. *shrugs*
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Old 09-16-2007, 12:20 AM    (permalink
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Barring a strange draft class, it's usually the case that you can find a very good/great MLB prospect from Round 2 on.

I suppose we should bring up Alan Branch? I really liked him as a prospect and was surprised he fell (wonder what the scouting obviously discovered), and would have personally taken him with the Colts' pick as I think he could have been the best Tampa 2 NT the league has yet seen. That's me, I'm not in the war room with the benefit of their information and knowledge at hand. I could understand why the team opted to take another prospect (Anthony Gonzalez) and then draft Quinn Pitcock in the 3rd round. Could Branch have helped the Saints? Probably, if he stayed healthy. Again, who knows how the Saints graded him (obviously worse than Meachem?).

Meachem, I thought, was in discussion for best player available (the way to go imo). Talk about him and Greg Olsen at the Packers' pick, 16th overall I believe it was, was overrating the two imo, but both ended up in good spots to good teams. I recall some bringing up Chad Jackson, a fellow SEC junior WR who entered the Draft a year before, but I definitely liked Meachem more. And if the Saints had taken Branch, they still would have the aforementioned long-term concerns at WR and the matter of time to develop a player there.

On the matter of drafting DTs, I do think that it's not a surprise that teams with shaky scouting/decision-making have drafted disappointments at DT in the 1st round in the last 5 years or so: only draft them when you are sure and confident in your scouting imo, that you are in fact drafting a stud to complement a solid rotation of mid-round picks (Tommie Harris) or hopefully another great player (Jacksonville with Stroud & Henderson, Tampa before with Sapp & McFarland). Tomorrow, there's a good chance the Colts will see the best Albert Haynesworth they've yet seen, thanks to Haynesworth being in a contract year and that's the reason he'll finally live up to his potential as the 15th overall pick in the 2002 Draft - I wouldn't hold my breath to see it continue once he signs a lucrative FA contract.
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Old 09-16-2007, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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Here's what I posted at another Saints' forum about how our draft went down (at least the first round):

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And, this is what I don't get about this logic... who was on the board that was worth taking over Meachem that we WOULD have taken?

DT - Only DT that would have been "worth" the selection in the first round was Alan Branch [EDIT: considering we were picking 27 and Harrell was off the board]. However, many reports had him having a very lackluster work ethic and some attitude problems. Whether or not he turns out successful isn't the point, but by that speculation alone he wasn't a Payton-type player and was not going to our pick.

CB - Chris Houston. Probably my favorite draft prospect after Johnson, Russell & Lynch, however, we signed Jason David prior to the draft which allowed us to not draft a CB in the first round simply based on need. Not to mention that Usama Young was our very next selection after Meachem whom has a lot of the pros that Houston is listed for except that he's a known tackler.

LB - This is the only position that you could maybe make a point for. With Poz & David Harris being on the board, but those would probably be picks for the future as well. Fujita & Shanle have their positions on lock and we signed Brian Simmons in the FA before the draft so Poz/Harris would have had to beat out Simoneau & Simmons to start for us.

Teams should stick to what works for them. Take the Colts for instance. They are obviously an offensive team. They have been for awhile now and it's what works for them. They lost many pieces to their defense before the draft and that was the biggest concern for them last season before the playoffs and for them going into this season. You don't think the Colts couldn't have used a LB or DT either? But who did they select? Anthony Gonzales. You take the player who you think is BPA, period.
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:58 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auron View Post
The worst part about it is.. that our first second day pick, who was another RB isn't even on the team anymore. Was beat out by an UDFA and then cut. Im not ready to write off Meachem yet you can't really judge WRs their first season, but it is becoming more clear that he and our other rookies probably wont contribute very much this season.

And with that said as a team we don't have the kind of luxury to be able to take that Draft approach yet.
I know he was cut, as I fully expected him to be. The Saints had plenty of talent at RB and Pittman doesn't bring much value to ST either. It's one of those "What were they thinking?" deals.
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Old 09-16-2007, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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how about them bucs?!
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Old 09-16-2007, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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i knew i should of started there d today..........but i got joey g ands hes ballin
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Old 09-16-2007, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Jason David is gonna single handedly lose every game for the saints.
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Old 09-16-2007, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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i told yall the bucs where gonna whoop on them aints
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Old 09-16-2007, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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yay and such
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