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Old 03-08-2008, 10:58 PM    (permalink
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Pre-emptive strike against BBD and his guaranteed NFC East claim:

No, bud. The AFC South is the strongest defensive division. Granted, the Texans don't have a secondary, and you can pass on the Jags with ease.

The Giants suck at safety and their linebackers can't cover, the Cowboys defense just isn't that good, the Eagles can't generate a worthwhile pass rush, and ditto the Redskins plus worse secondary/coaching, although they upgraded big-time from Gregg Williams (very overrated) to Greg Blache.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
I don't care what the numbers say, Dallas is not a top 10 defense. The other three are questionable, but none of them are really intimidating in the least.
i admit that all 4 defenses may be overrated. i think the Giants defense has the most potential heading into this upcoming season, but having all 4 rank in the top 10 is still impressive no matter how you cut it.

and yes, the Dallas defense can be had through the air. no question about it.

but can't you say the same about the NFC North? I think the bears (when healthy) and the Pack can hang with us, but the Vikings and Lions have no pass rush.

I expect the Giants, Cowboys (if theyre not dumb and address needs with their picks) and Eagles defenses to be better this upcoming year. I expect Washington to drop off.

How is the Giants defense not intimidating? I think by the end of the offseason, we'll make enough moves to have one of the best defenses in football.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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Pre-emptive strike against BBD and his guaranteed NFC East claim:

No, bud. The AFC South is the strongest defensive division. Granted, the Texans don't have a secondary, and you can pass on the Jags with ease.

The Giants suck at safety and their linebackers can't cover, the Cowboys defense just isn't that good, the Eagles can't generate a worthwhile pass rush, and ditto the Redskins plus worse secondary/coaching, although they upgraded big-time from Gregg Williams (very overrated) to Greg Blache.
We actually upgraded LB by not resigning our guys. Wilkinson is the coverage LB we desperately need. Safety, yes as of right now thats not looking too good. But we didn't have the draft yet, its too early to write off anybody.

For this upcoming year, its hard to project yet because theres so much that can happen from now until the beginning of the season. The AFC south can very well make a big splash. I think all 4 defenses will improve this offseason.

For this past year however, it was the NFC East.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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I've mentioned this before but ... the Packers defense should be better than what it actually is. It's built better than it is. That puzzles me.

I know the talent at corner falls off hard past Harris and Woodson, but still.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:06 PM    (permalink
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Also, while Pierce is a huge liability in coverage, he sniffs out screen passes very well. I'll give him that.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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I've mentioned this before but ... the Packers defense should be better than what it actually is. It's built better than it is. That puzzles me.

I know the talent at corner falls off hard past Harris and Woodson, but still.
we cant cover TE's to save our life. I also feel like AJ Hawk and Nick Collins didnt play up to potential
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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Also, while Pierce is a huge liability in coverage, he sniffs out screen passes very well. I'll give him that.
he's so huge for our defense. he has more responsibility than any MIKE in the NFL, and is probably the smartest LB ive seen since Mike Singletary. He's a big reason why we won the SB. I could explain in detail exactly what he does at a later time.

But yeah...id love to see him drop 15 pounds. He's been enjoying food a little too much the past 2 years.

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I've mentioned this before but ... the Packers defense should be better than what it actually is. It's built better than it is. That puzzles me.

I know the talent at corner falls off hard past Harris and Woodson, but still.
I agree completely. I think they can get far too passive and vanilla at times. Their defense is just far too simple. Very vanilla.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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we cant cover TE's to save our life. I also feel like AJ Hawk and Nick Collins didnt play up to potential
Hawk is an NFL MIKE forced to play WILL because you can't bench Barnett who is a beast in his own right.

Hawk would beast it at MIKE, but what are the Pack supposed to do? You can't bench Barnett.

On top of that, Hodge is rotting on the bench.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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he has more responsibility than any MIKE in the NFL
that is one pretty ballsy statement to make. especially considering that this is a NFCN thread. i think you kno where im going with this...if you dont you are dumb
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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His coverage is also the reason the Patriots scored their first touchdown, but I hear you. Pierce is a thumper, that's his game. He's the Giants' Jeremiah Trotter, his presence does a lot for the run defense even when they are aggressive.

Re: the Packers, as I've said, I like how it's built. That's how I would want to build a 4-3 defense in all likelihood, I really like what Ted Thompson has done there and overall. So maybe I'm expecting too much, thinking the Packers should be better.

Hodge is very much a thumper, as is Desmond Bishop, the MIKE from Cal Berkeley that Thompson picked up last April. They'll be great special teamers. If they can provide more than one dimension, then maybe more.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:18 PM    (permalink
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that is one pretty ballsy statement to make. especially considering that this is a NFCN thread. i think you kno where im going with this...if you dont you are dumb
more mental responsibilty.

Urlacher chases TEs down a seem. No one does it better, but thats far from having the most responsibility. He didn't even call in the plays when Mike Brown was on the field.

While Urlacher is the best at what he does, he doesn't have any more responsibility than guys like Brackett or Henderson.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:22 PM    (permalink
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His coverage is also the reason the Patriots scored their first touchdown, but I hear you. Pierce is a thumper, that's his game. He's the Giants' Jeremiah Trotter, his presence does a lot for the run defense even when they are aggressive.

Re: the Packers, as I've said, I like how it's built. That's how I would want to build a 4-3 defense in all likelihood, I really like what Ted Thompson has done there and overall. So maybe I'm expecting too much, thinking the Packers should be better.

Hodge is very much a thumper, as is Desmond Bishop, the MIKE from Cal Berkeley that Thompson picked up last April. They'll be great special teamers. If they can provide more than one dimension, then maybe more.
during the SB, steve spagnuolo gave AP 2 plays. The first play was the playcall. If Brady sniffed out the pass rush, the 2nd play was the opposite play that was designed to attack the pass protection adjustments that Brady would make. (this was figured out by studying the first time we both met). Now AP had to recognize if Brady figured out what we were doing or not, and had to time his audible in a way that everyone on defense knew what we were doing, but also in a way that it would be too late for Brady to counteraudible.

On top of that, if AP saw something Spagnuolo didn't see, he had the luxury of audibling to his own play.

Thats why they couldn't block our pass rush the 2nd time. Without a guy like AP, we can't pull that off. He's widely considered the smartest MIKE in the NFL, and he's huge for us. Im very critical of his game on the field, but one thing i can't deny is his leadership, and his mental ability. No one is better than him in that regards.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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more mental responsibilty.

Urlacher chases people down. No one does it better
fixed :P

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He didn't even call in the plays when Mike Brown was on the field.
and when was that in the past 4 years? not that i truly believe it anyway
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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Brackett's a coverage guy, and he's not very effective when he tries to blitz on those rare occassions. He does a solid job against the run, but he's not the guy who is going to make many plays in that area. He'll get swallowed up by bigger lineman and tight ends. It is what it is, it's the sacrifice for having the benefit in the pass defense. You wish you could have a do-it-all guy, but those are hard to find. Although I think Freddy Keiaho could be a better MIKE, but he's starting at WLB and Brackett is entrenched for the time being.

As for how well Brackett's defensive calls on the field are ... I couldn't speak knowledgably on that from outside.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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Im not questioning how good Urlacher is. He's the prototype Tampa 2 MIKE. All Im saying is he doesn't have the most responsibility out of all the MIKEs in the NFL.

I don't think thats unfair to say. If you look at a guy like Ray Lewis, although washed up, he has more responsibility. He's in that hybrid 3-4/46, thats demanding both mentally and physically.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:35 PM    (permalink
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Btw, I think the NFC North is still up there and very much in the discussion.

The Bears defense wasn't healthy all of last year, when they are we know what they can do. Especially as I still like replacing Rivera with Babich.

Add in the Packers, if they can cut down on the penalties some and be more consistent, then they're better. The Vikings will continue to improve in pass defense with Leslie Frazier at the helm, he does an exceptional job with def backs.

The Lions ... are the Lions.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:36 PM    (permalink
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Hawk is an NFL MIKE forced to play WILL because you can't bench Barnett who is a beast in his own right.

Hawk would beast it at MIKE, but what are the Pack supposed to do? You can't bench Barnett.

On top of that, Hodge is rotting on the bench.
It'd be interesting to see how they'd do if they switched posistions. I would not mess with it because Barnett has been great in the middle, but it's something to think about.

Hodge is in no win situation. He's not going to take the MLB or WLB spot because of Hawk and Barnett and he's in no way a SLB. He's a quality backup, but we might want to look into trading him before his contract is up because I can't imagine he'd want to resign here.

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Re: the Packers, as I've said, I like how it's built. That's how I would want to build a 4-3 defense in all likelihood, I really like what Ted Thompson has done there and overall. So maybe I'm expecting too much, thinking the Packers should be better.

Hodge is very much a thumper, as is Desmond Bishop, the MIKE from Cal Berkeley that Thompson picked up last April. They'll be great special teamers. If they can provide more than one dimension, then maybe more.
I don't think it's too much to expect us to be better. Like BBD said there's not a whole lot of variation with our defense. It's pretty much the same couple plays. We rely on pressure from our front four, which I like and we're capable of getting, but I think it'd be beneficial to blitz more. All three of our linebackers are good at getting to the quarterback when we do blitz, but for some reason Bob Sanders doesn't like to send them too much. There was a game that he let Barnett blitz and it was very effective, but then we never went back to that in later games.

Hodge fits that description perfectly, but I wouldn't include Bishop in that. Bishop is above average against the run and well below average against the pass. Hodge could possibly be a starter someday while Bishop is no more than a special teamer. You mentioned special teams in your post and Bishop should be a great one, but Hodge is nothing out of the ordinary.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:38 PM    (permalink
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more mental responsibilty.

Urlacher chases TEs down a seem. No one does it better, but thats far from having the most responsibility. He didn't even call in the plays when Mike Brown was on the field.

While Urlacher is the best at what he does, he doesn't have any more responsibility than guys like Brackett or Henderson.
I'm assuming you've never played MIKE linebacker if you think callling in the plays is a difficult assignment.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, with the speed Hawk and Barnett have, they could be effective as blitzers.

And I'm a big fan of the Packers' strong rotation on the defensive line. Does Cullen Jenkins slide inside to tackle much on pass-rushing downs?
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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In regards to the Giants, there are about 3-4 players on that defense that I would consider anything better than good/average, one less if Strahan retires.

Don't get me wrong, their defensive end tandem is phenominal, the best in recent memory, but that lack of quality around it has burnt the Giants at times too. They were a team that got really hot at the right time, but I still question if they are even a top 10 team in the NFL.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:44 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, with the speed Hawk and Barnett have, they could be effective as blitzers.

And I'm a big fan of the Packers' strong rotation on the defensive line. Does Cullen Jenkins slide inside to tackle much on pass-rushing downs?
Yeah, KGB-Jenkins-Jolly-Kampman

Williams was the other DT last year, but Jolly will do just fine.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:48 PM    (permalink
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In regards to the defense, I know it sounds crazy, but Dusty Dvoracek is so instrumental. If you can get your hands on the San Diego game, he's 90% of the reason why LT was getting shut down. When Dusty went out we lost the game. He's much more important than Mike Brown IMO, though having Mike around would do wonders for our defense as well.

I'm not optomistic about much for the Bears next year, other than we'll be better than the Lions, but the defense has a chance to return to the top 10 if it can stay healthy. There's really no reason why not.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:51 PM    (permalink
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That's interesting to hear, considering the line has Harris, Ogunleye, and Brown. Hmm.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:59 PM    (permalink
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That's interesting to hear, considering the line has Harris, Ogunleye, and Brown. Hmm.
The NT is so important in the Tampa 2 for stopping the run though. Part of the issue was also Mark Anderson not being able to stop the run, but the bigger issue is that Dvoracek was not only able to hold his position but collapse the pocket, which is very difficult from the NT position. Tommie is pretty good against the run but his whole purpose is essentially to penetrate so often he can be eluded. O-Gun is pretty good against the run too, but if you're relying on your defense end to stop the run in a Tampa 2, you've got issues. That's why I've always been in favor of Mark Anderson over Brown. Anderson isn't the problem, it's that our nose tackle wasn't doing a good enough job. I actually like Anthony Adams as a situational run stuffer, he reminds me of Ian Scott in that regard, but Dusty is special in a way that Anthony simply can't be.

It was also an issue of injuries/sucky play in our secondary. When your MLB is required to make up for lapses with your safties, that's going to severly limit your ability to stop the run. It was really a matter of pick your poison last year, except we never really stuck to one thing and ended up sucking at both.
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Old 03-10-2008, 08:46 PM    (permalink
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Btw, I think the NFC North is still up there and very much in the discussion.

The Bears defense wasn't healthy all of last year, when they are we know what they can do. Especially as I still like replacing Rivera with Babich.

Add in the Packers, if they can cut down on the penalties some and be more consistent, then they're better. The Vikings will continue to improve in pass defense with Leslie Frazier at the helm, he does an exceptional job with def backs.

The Lions ... are the Lions.
it very well can be. im just talking about this past year. this past year it was the NFC East, we had all 4 in the top 10, i mean come on, what more do you need?

As for this upcoming year, who knows. way too early to tell. It can be the East, the AFC South, the NFC North, lots of possibilities. its waaay too early to say anything.

But this past year, it was the East. I don't see how its not.

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I'm assuming you've never played MIKE linebacker if you think callling in the plays is a difficult assignment.
Its not just about calling in the plays. Youre a huge Singletary fan, you know that. Its about lining guys up, making the necessary adjustments to the playcall based on what the offense is doing, if you have the luxury that AP had, audibling to a different play if you see something, moving guys in position etc.

Sure, calling in the play itself is not difficult. But im not just talking about that. Theres more to the mental side of the MIKE position than that.

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In regards to the Giants, there are about 3-4 players on that defense that I would consider anything better than good/average, one less if Strahan retires.

Don't get me wrong, their defensive end tandem is phenominal, the best in recent memory, but that lack of quality around it has burnt the Giants at times too. They were a team that got really hot at the right time, but I still question if they are even a top 10 team in the NFL.
well, like i said, i don't want to project too much this year because the offseason is far from over. we don't know what will happen from now till the end of it.

i think youre underrating some of the talent though. yes, our secondary talent outside of Ross and Wilson (when he was here) was average, but our pressure more than made up for it. And our dline in general, not just Osi and Strahan was great. We had 4 DEs who could start for a lot of teams, we had Alford who was a great penetrating UT, our starting DTs were more situational run thumpers than important pieces to our dline. Tuck was so strong he played UT both in the nickel and base 4-3, we were stacked with talent along the entire line.

And that will mask a lot of weaknesses in the back 7. Remember, its not necessarily how much talent you have, its where you have it thats important.

And theres more than 4 good players on our defense. Strahan, Osi, Tuck, Kiwi, Alford, Ross, Pierce. Thats 7 by my account. Im not going to sing the praises of others because outside the giant and NFC East fanbase, no one will know who im talking about, but those 7 guys are at the very least "good" to me.
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