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Old 09-16-2007, 08:08 PM    (permalink
LSUALUM99
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Default Marion the Barbarian

Just liked the nickname.

BTW I think Julius and Marion the Barbarian make a good tandem. I don't want Marion to be the guy that gets 25+ touches a game but I'm not opposed to replacing JJ. I just don't want Marion to be the guy full time.
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I just wanna warn you guys not to take TNew41 too seriously. He's....let's just say, special. He's fairly harmless, though. He just needs several years of seasoning before he tries to make any more points, is all.
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Old 09-16-2007, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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How would you feel about a Marion / TT combo?
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Old 09-16-2007, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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How would you feel about a Marion / TT combo?
I don't like TT, never have. I think he's about as average an NFL player as there is. He's fast. And???? He can't block, and isn't a good receiving threat. The NFL is full of guys who run fast but aren't good enough at all aspects of the game to play more than a handful of plays.
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I just wanna warn you guys not to take TNew41 too seriously. He's....let's just say, special. He's fairly harmless, though. He just needs several years of seasoning before he tries to make any more points, is all.
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Old 09-16-2007, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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JJ out, Ray Rice in.
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Old 09-16-2007, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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JJ out, Ray Rice in.
deadly combo... Ray Rice + Marion Barber
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Old 09-16-2007, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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JJ out, Jonathan Stewart in!
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Old 09-17-2007, 04:06 AM    (permalink
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The new Marion Barber Higlight video will be soooo sick! I'm planning to make 1 by week 8...
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Old 09-17-2007, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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Here's the problem with Marion Barber being a full-time back: he's not elusive enough in the backfield to be able to gain consistent positive yardage. So if a defensive lineman breaks through the line, Barber almost always will lose yardage. Jones has the quickness to be able to beat the first defender and at least get back to the line of scrimmage in most situations. That's why I don't like Barber on first and second downs.

Another problem with the Barber hype: augmentation of stats. It's been pointed out that Barber gets more chances to increase his average by running on third downs and late in the game. I don't put too much faith in that, but I don't doubt it as well. The point that I'd like to make is that without his 40 yard TD run on 4th and 1 yesterday (the easiest TD run ever, btw, perfect hole and just one defender once he got by the line of scrimmage) and Barber's numbers are much more pedestrian: 13 carries, 49 yards, 1 TD. That's not so superb as everyone is making it out to be.

I'm not saying that Barber isn't a good situational player (he's excellent at what he does), but I don't think that he is capable of carrying a team as a starting running back. Maybe Julius isn't that guy either, but I think we should give him more than two games before we totally give up on the guy for the season.
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Old 09-17-2007, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Here's the problem with Marion Barber being a full-time back: he's not elusive enough in the backfield to be able to gain consistent positive yardage. So if a defensive lineman breaks through the line, Barber almost always will lose yardage. Jones has the quickness to be able to beat the first defender and at least get back to the line of scrimmage in most situations. That's why I don't like Barber on first and second downs.

Another problem with the Barber hype: augmentation of stats. It's been pointed out that Barber gets more chances to increase his average by running on third downs and late in the game. I don't put too much faith in that, but I don't doubt it as well. The point that I'd like to make is that without his 40 yard TD run on 4th and 1 yesterday (the easiest TD run ever, btw, perfect hole and just one defender once he got by the line of scrimmage) and Barber's numbers are much more pedestrian: 13 carries, 49 yards, 1 TD. That's not so superb as everyone is making it out to be.

I'm not saying that Barber isn't a good situational player (he's excellent at what he does), but I don't think that he is capable of carrying a team as a starting running back. Maybe Julius isn't that guy either, but I think we should give him more than two games before we totally give up on the guy for the season.

well i respect your opinion, and i really cant fault you for seeing it the other way and backing your opinion...but all the other stuff is irrelevant, both backs get the same number of carries, and alot of series JJ will come in rested in the 3rd or 4th, with the defense tired, and not do anything, its crazy how many 3 and outs we end up getting if we try to come in running with him in the 2nd half....


You just cannot overlook how hard it is to bring MBIII down, that makes the defense even more tired then they already were and worn down, JJ gets tackled as soon as an arm gets on him and ive rarely seen barber get brought down by one dfender...


you cant ignore the fact that JJ had 32 yds, and barber had 90 yds and two tds with the same number of carries for both, jones has showed NOTHING anytime soon that shows he is a dominant back, or something for teams to gameplan around...i thought parcells was the reason he couldnt run well? he gets his chances against a worn down D just as much as barber and i watched him in the 2nd half do alot of nothing, id rather see the carries 20/10 in barbers favor
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Old 09-17-2007, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Well let me get this started b/c Iit was metioned privately to a few ....

If we sign MBIII and if we believe he is a perfect "compliment back" then we never draft McFadden .... we draft Slaton later 1 ... and use the early on S/CB/LT.

Thoughts????
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Old 09-17-2007, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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i thought parcells was the reason he couldnt run well
Funny how BP was that way.

More than a few "high profile" picks that could not produce and somehow BP was always blamed.

Makes you wonder why guys who can't produce are still around getting second chances.
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Old 09-17-2007, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Well let me get this started b/c Iit was metioned privately to a few ....

If we sign MBIII and if we believe he is a perfect "compliment back" then we never draft McFadden .... we draft Slaton later 1 ... and use the early on S/CB/LT.

Thoughts????
I'm saying we use that first pick on Kenny Phillips. The second pick will be there for whatever dumb pick we make, but we HAVE to have Kenny Phillips.
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Old 09-17-2007, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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Here's the problem with Marion Barber being a full-time back: he's not elusive enough in the backfield to be able to gain consistent positive yardage. So if a defensive lineman breaks through the line, Barber almost always will lose yardage. Jones has the quickness to be able to beat the first defender and at least get back to the line of scrimmage in most situations. That's why I don't like Barber on first and second downs.

Another problem with the Barber hype: augmentation of stats. It's been pointed out that Barber gets more chances to increase his average by running on third downs and late in the game. I don't put too much faith in that, but I don't doubt it as well. The point that I'd like to make is that without his 40 yard TD run on 4th and 1 yesterday (the easiest TD run ever, btw, perfect hole and just one defender once he got by the line of scrimmage) and Barber's numbers are much more pedestrian: 13 carries, 49 yards, 1 TD. That's not so superb as everyone is making it out to be.

I'm not saying that Barber isn't a good situational player (he's excellent at what he does), but I don't think that he is capable of carrying a team as a starting running back. Maybe Julius isn't that guy either, but I think we should give him more than two games before we totally give up on the guy for the season.
Well put me down as saying if MBIII gained some weight he would still be quick and even more punishing full time back. A Jerome Bettis type IMHO.

Under this scenario with Tyson, I let Julius walk and address other needs come FA and draft.
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Old 09-17-2007, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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Well let me get this started b/c Iit was metioned privately to a few ....

If we sign MBIII and if we believe he is a perfect "compliment back" then we never draft McFadden .... we draft Slaton later 1 ... and use the early on S/CB/LT.

Thoughts????
I don't see us drafting McFadden at this point and I hope to God we dont package our whole draft for him. Slaton later on sounds good if you want to use that combo. I'd stick with MB3/TT rotation. BUT I wouldn't mind Slaton either.
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Old 09-17-2007, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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Here's the problem with Marion Barber being a full-time back: he's not elusive enough in the backfield to be able to gain consistent positive yardage. So if a defensive lineman breaks through the line, Barber almost always will lose yardage. Jones has the quickness to be able to beat the first defender and at least get back to the line of scrimmage in most situations. That's why I don't like Barber on first and second downs.

Another problem with the Barber hype: augmentation of stats. It's been pointed out that Barber gets more chances to increase his average by running on third downs and late in the game. I don't put too much faith in that, but I don't doubt it as well. The point that I'd like to make is that without his 40 yard TD run on 4th and 1 yesterday (the easiest TD run ever, btw, perfect hole and just one defender once he got by the line of scrimmage) and Barber's numbers are much more pedestrian: 13 carries, 49 yards, 1 TD. That's not so superb as everyone is making it out to be.

I'm not saying that Barber isn't a good situational player (he's excellent at what he does), but I don't think that he is capable of carrying a team as a starting running back. Maybe Julius isn't that guy either, but I think we should give him more than two games before we totally give up on the guy for the season.
WINS
Opp.;Carries-Yards-TD
Carolina;9-49-2
Arizona;13-65-1
Indianapolis;9-35-2
Tampa Bay;16-83-2*
NY Giants;12-76-2
Atlanta;11-69-2
NY Giants;11-66-1
Miami;14-89-2
8-game totals: 95-532-14
*Receiving TDs

LOSSES
Opp.;Carries-Yards-TD
Washington;7-45-0
New Orleans;2-(-1)-0
Philadelphia;6-3-0
Detroit;7-15-1
Seattle;3-4-0
5-game totals: 25-66-1

Notice a trend? The more Barber gets the ball, the better he is and the more the Cowboys win.
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Old 09-17-2007, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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Marion is a nice runner, but he wasn't much better than Julius yesterday. Its getting to the point where its harder and harder to defend JJ and his lack of production, but Barber is a situational player, and that's it. If you were to put a full workload on his shoulders, he would leave you wanting more.

That said, I just can't get out of my head the way that Julius looked in his rookie year. When you put him out on the field and say "you're our guy, go make things happen" I think he could be really, really good. Give him 20+ carries, guaranteed, per game and I think that he might completely change people's perception of him. We know he has it in him somewhere, but I'm starting to agree that both he and the Cowboys need a change of scenery.
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Old 09-17-2007, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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WINS
Opp.;Carries-Yards-TD
Carolina;9-49-2
Arizona;13-65-1
Indianapolis;9-35-2
Tampa Bay;16-83-2*
NY Giants;12-76-2
Atlanta;11-69-2
NY Giants;11-66-1
Miami;14-89-2
8-game totals: 95-532-14
*Receiving TDs

LOSSES
Opp.;Carries-Yards-TD
Washington;7-45-0
New Orleans;2-(-1)-0
Philadelphia;6-3-0
Detroit;7-15-1
Seattle;3-4-0
5-game totals: 25-66-1

Notice a trend? The more Barber gets the ball, the better he is and the more the Cowboys win.
lol, or the more we're ahead in games, leading with the ball, the more opportunities Barber gets to run up late stats, and the more junk numbers he accumulates.

Its the chicken and the egg argument. It's like the stat they used to show on Emmitt and how whenever he got 20 carries, we would win basically every time.

Well, guess what? What happens when you are ahead late in the game? YOU RUN THE BALL. Guess what happens when you are behind? YOU PASS THE BALL. Its stands to reason that when you are winning you are likely to get more carries and when you are losing you are likely to get less. Therefore the assertion that Emmitt getting 20 carries-->Dallas wins is flawed. It's much more like Dallas wins-->Emmitt getting 20 carries.

The same is true here. Barber gets plenty of work late in games we are winning, and does well with the opportunities. Winning is the horse, Barber is the cart. Don't put the horse before the cart.
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Old 09-17-2007, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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I'm saying we use that first pick on Kenny Phillips. The second pick will be there for whatever dumb pick we make, but we HAVE to have Kenny Phillips.
I don't know, if Hamlin keeps playing like he's doing I think we'll resign him.

On the Barber/Jones debate, I've lost all of my confidence on Julius. He looks lost on the field, he has no vision, he's not producing. I don't want Barber to be a full time starter, but in today NFL only a few teams have a full time starter at RB. We should pick a guy like Rice, Slaton or Charles to share carries with Barber, a "lighting" type of RB to play along the "thunder".
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Old 09-17-2007, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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I don't know, if Hamlin keeps playing like he's doing I think we'll resign him.
I am assuming he meant Phillips plus Hamlin/Watkins as starters.
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Old 09-17-2007, 04:53 PM    (permalink
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WINS
Opp.;Carries-Yards-TD
Carolina;9-49-2
Arizona;13-65-1
Indianapolis;9-35-2
Tampa Bay;16-83-2*
NY Giants;12-76-2
Atlanta;11-69-2
NY Giants;11-66-1
Miami;14-89-2
8-game totals: 95-532-14
*Receiving TDs

LOSSES
Opp.;Carries-Yards-TD
Washington;7-45-0
New Orleans;2-(-1)-0
Philadelphia;6-3-0
Detroit;7-15-1
Seattle;3-4-0
5-game totals: 25-66-1

Notice a trend? The more Barber gets the ball, the better he is and the more the Cowboys win.
Congratulations on quoting Tim McMahon of the cowboys blog of the Dallas Morning News. Again, these stats are augmented and flawed. Here's why Barber gets the ball when the Cowboys win: they're winning. I know that logic was difficult but here's what's to understand. We all know Barber gets the ball in the 4th quarter, and clearly gets the ball more when we're winning in order to kill clock...see the correlation? When we're winning, Barber gets the ball more, and guess what? Most of those teams are worn down and generally aren't as good defenses as the teams that Barber posted worse stats against. This is what I'm talking about when I say don't believe the stats.

Thanks to DMW for also pointing this out...I didn't see your post before I typed all this.
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Old 09-17-2007, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Congratulations on quoting Tim McMahon of the cowboys blog of the Dallas Morning News. Again, these stats are augmented and flawed. Here's why Barber gets the ball when the Cowboys win: they're winning. I know that logic was difficult but here's what's to understand. We all know Barber gets the ball in the 4th quarter, and clearly gets the ball more when we're winning in order to kill clock...see the correlation? When we're winning, Barber gets the ball more, and guess what? Most of those teams are worn down and generally aren't as good defenses as the teams that Barber posted worse stats against. This is what I'm talking about when I say don't believe the stats.

Thanks to DMW for also pointing this out...I didn't see your post before I typed all this.
Not to be rude, but MBIII has made plays at crucial points in the game to turn the tide. Giants last week on the 4th and 1. I remember Carolina last year when we where tied or something. Yesterday too.

I hear ya and agree to some degree but fact is when we need a big run, on an obvious running play, MBIII is a man and JJ is a boy.
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Old 09-17-2007, 05:58 PM    (permalink
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Congratulations on quoting Tim McMahon of the cowboys blog of the Dallas Morning News. Again, these stats are augmented and flawed. Here's why Barber gets the ball when the Cowboys win: they're winning. I know that logic was difficult but here's what's to understand. We all know Barber gets the ball in the 4th quarter, and clearly gets the ball more when we're winning in order to kill clock...see the correlation? When we're winning, Barber gets the ball more, and guess what? Most of those teams are worn down and generally aren't as good defenses as the teams that Barber posted worse stats against. This is what I'm talking about when I say don't believe the stats.

Thanks to DMW for also pointing this out...I didn't see your post before I typed all this.
So you are saying in all of these games we've won, MB3 is getting trash stats because we're winning already? Can you not remember any of them? I don't wanna have to go back and check every game and point out how early MB3 scores. I do concede the fact that he does get some padded stats. Example, last year against Carolina he scored in the last 3 min of the game when it was over already. But he also scores when the game is tight.
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Old 09-17-2007, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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Marion is a nice runner, but he wasn't much better than Julius yesterday. Its getting to the point where its harder and harder to defend JJ and his lack of production, but Barber is a situational player, and that's it. If you were to put a full workload on his shoulders, he would leave you wanting more.

That said, I just can't get out of my head the way that Julius looked in his rookie year. When you put him out on the field and say "you're our guy, go make things happen" I think he could be really, really good. Give him 20+ carries, guaranteed, per game and I think that he might completely change people's perception of him. We know he has it in him somewhere, but I'm starting to agree that both he and the Cowboys need a change of scenery.

ok but what makes you think that MBIII wouldnt do just that if given a chance to get 20 carries? I really dont get how everyone knocks him and says he's good at what he does and cant do more when he has never had a shot...you mean to tell me if he gets 20+ carries he turns into an awful back and cant hit the hole anymore? And on that note, id like to know what JJ has outside of top end speed, that MBIII doesnt...im pretty sure Barber is about the same speed as LJ, and even some of the average speed rb's were great (emmit, curtis martin, bettis)
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Old 09-17-2007, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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Congratulations on quoting Tim McMahon of the cowboys blog of the Dallas Morning News. Again, these stats are augmented and flawed. Here's why Barber gets the ball when the Cowboys win: they're winning. I know that logic was difficult but here's what's to understand. We all know Barber gets the ball in the 4th quarter, and clearly gets the ball more when we're winning in order to kill clock...see the correlation? When we're winning, Barber gets the ball more, and guess what? Most of those teams are worn down and generally aren't as good defenses as the teams that Barber posted worse stats against. This is what I'm talking about when I say don't believe the stats.

Thanks to DMW for also pointing this out...I didn't see your post before I typed all this.


did you watch the game? JJ was in during the 4th qt when we were up, and did nothing, stalled our drive and it went by very quickly...like I said he was getting the same shot to run on that worn down miami defense as Barber was, yet he gets 2 yds and falls, while barber gets 5 when it should of been a loss....I dont know why your acting like Barber is getting some kind of advantage here, JJ got his carries inside the 20, and carries in the 4th, but made nothing out of it


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but fact is when we need a big run, on an obvious running play, MBIII is a man and JJ is a boy.
couldnt say it much better
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Old 09-17-2007, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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did you watch the game? JJ was in during the 4th qt when we were up, and did nothing, stalled our drive and it went by very quickly...like I said he was getting the same shot to run on that worn down miami defense as Barber was, yet he gets 2 yds and falls, while barber gets 5 when it should of been a loss....I dont know why your acting like Barber is getting some kind of advantage here, JJ got his carries inside the 20, and carries in the 4th, but made nothing out of it




couldnt say it much better
That was one game...you can't generalize based on one game.

And if Barber is soooo good at turning losses into gains, how come he has converted only 50% of his 3rd and 4th and 1 situations? That's really not very good.
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