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Old 09-19-2007, 11:46 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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I never understood why Cowboys fans want McFadden so bad when they have Barber on their team. All they need to do is spell him with another back and keep a duo going. They can get that spell back in round 3.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again. If the Cowboys get a top 5 pick out of Cleveland, they should go after Jake Long. Or force the need and get Kenny Phillips.
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Old 09-19-2007, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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I never understood why Cowboys fans want McFadden so bad when they have Barber on their team. All they need to do is spell him with another back and keep a duo going. They can get that spell back in round 3.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again. If the Cowboys get a top 5 pick out of Cleveland, they should go after Jake Long. Or force the need and get Kenny Phillips.
Amen brother.

If you really want a speed back nd keep MBIII in his current role, get Slaton in the back half of round 1.

If you want a bruiser and keep MBIII in his current role, take Stewart in the back half.

If you start MBIII as a feature back, then go CB or NT or WR.

You use the 1st round to solve big short-term problems and get potential stars.

But with Jerrah around and his baffling player personnel moves -- I am sure McFadden is the man and we trade up to get him.
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Old 09-19-2007, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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Amen brother.

If you really want a speed back nd keep MBIII in his current role, get Slaton in the back half of round 1.

If you want a bruiser and keep MBIII in his current role, take Stewart in the back half.

If you start MBIII as a feature back, then go CB or NT or WR.

You use the 1st round to solve big short-term problems and get potential stars.

But with Jerrah around and his baffling player personnel moves -- I am sure McFadden is the man and we trade up to get him.
I don't think Jerry would do that. He knows what he has in Barber. A smart move would be getting Mike Hart in round 2. Him and Barber would be one hell of a 1,2 RB punch.

Honestly, I don't like McFadden that much. He's too tall and lanky. As a pure runner, I don't see him being as good as everyone thinks. Yeah sure, he's a jack of all trades type in college, but at the pro level, if you want to be elite, you have to be elite at a certain position. McFadden is another Reggie Bush but taller and slower, but those types usually don't have dominant success in the pros.
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Old 09-19-2007, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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Amen brother.

If you really want a speed back nd keep MBIII in his current role, get Slaton in the back half of round 1.

If you want a bruiser and keep MBIII in his current role, take Stewart in the back half.

If you start MBIII as a feature back, then go CB or NT or WR.

You use the 1st round to solve big short-term problems and get potential stars.

But with Jerrah around and his baffling player personnel moves -- I am sure McFadden is the man and we trade up to get him.
Do you really think Slaton will make it as an NFL back. With the type of offense he's in, I'm not sure if that will translate well into the NFL.
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Old 09-19-2007, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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Do you really think Slaton will make it as an NFL back. With the type of offense he's in, I'm not sure if that will translate well into the NFL.
Yeah, I don't know what to do with Slaton. He's not really a RB, he's not really a WR. He's just a fast man. I need to see more film on him.
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Old 09-19-2007, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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please tell me how you can come to that conclusion with "no question about it"...thats like saying michael turner will lose his effectiveness if he increases his carries with another team not behind LT no question about it....it makes no sense, has no facts to back up the statement, and its been proven to be false many times again in the history of the NFL
Marion is so effective because he runs so hard on all of his carries. If you run 10 100 yard sprints in a row your time will be much faster on your 3rd compared to your 10th. The same is true for Marion and the number of carries he gets in a game. He can run as hard as he can on 6-10 carries a game, but if you start giving him 15-20 you will get diminishing returns.
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Old 09-19-2007, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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I think they should slightly increase his workload, but don't give him 25 carries a game.

I like the thought of anywhere from 15-17 carries a game, and spell him with a guy who will get you 12 to 13 carries a game. Thats a good fit. Initially I thought he should get 80% of the touches, but the more I see him and how he runs, I have a feeling that if his workload is increased that much, he will get injured. He runs like every play is the last play of the game, and its 4th down. That can be dangerous for him in the long run.

A RB by committee is great. It keeps everyone fresh. Im a believer in it.
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Old 09-19-2007, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I don't know what to do with Slaton. He's not really a RB, he's not really a WR. He's just a fast man. I need to see more film on him.
BTW, I love Mike Hart. 2nd rounder on a Hart type is great. A man on the football field. Not a quitter. Takes blows, gives blows and has the best vision and balance in college today.

On Slaton, to me he is a Reggie Bush type. Better runner but worse receiver. 100% homerun threat.
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Old 09-19-2007, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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Do you really think Slaton will make it as an NFL back. With the type of offense he's in, I'm not sure if that will translate well into the NFL.
Said the same of Warrick Dunn and Reggie Bush.

A little smallish but real play makers if you ask me.
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Old 09-19-2007, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I don't like McFadden that much. He's too tall and lanky. As a pure runner, I don't see him being as good as everyone thinks.
I think he is the real deal. That does not mean however we run out and draft him.

Need to see the whole picture of where the team is at the end of the season.
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Jerry would do that. He knows what he has in Barber. A smart move would be getting Mike Hart in round 2. Him and Barber would be one hell of a 1,2 RB punch.

Honestly, I don't like McFadden that much. He's too tall and lanky. As a pure runner, I don't see him being as good as everyone thinks. Yeah sure, he's a jack of all trades type in college, but at the pro level, if you want to be elite, you have to be elite at a certain position. McFadden is another Reggie Bush but taller and slower, but those types usually don't have dominant success in the pros.
:|

I honestly can't believe I just read that.

Dude, McFadden is not a "jack of all trades", he's a master of his trade that is so versatile that he can do plenty of other things as well.

You line him up in the I and run him between the tackles 20 times a game and he will get you 120 yards a game. Don't let the fact that he is used in various way over-shadow the fact that he is an incredible RB.

I can understand trying to look at things outside the box, and try a different perspective, but I think you pushed the envelope a little too far there, man. McFadden is an all-time talent, who will be a multiple All-Pro in the NFL. That's why we love him, because he can give us a dimension that we have never had (like most teams) and will provide a game changing player at a position that has been mediocre since the heydays of Emmitt Smith. That would seem like enough reason to me. Plus, he's simply the best player in college football right now.
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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:|

I honestly can't believe I just read that.

Dude, McFadden is not a "jack of all trades", he's a master of his trade that is so versatile that he can do plenty of other things as well.

You line him up in the I and run him between the tackles 20 times a game and he will get you 120 yards a game. Don't let the fact that he is used in various way over-shadow the fact that he is an incredible RB.

I can understand trying to look at things outside the box, and try a different perspective, but I think you pushed the envelope a little too far there, man. McFadden is an all-time talent, who will be a multiple All-Pro in the NFL. That's why we love him, because he can give us a dimension that we have never had (like most teams) and will provide a game changing player at a position that has been mediocre since the heydays of Emmitt Smith. That would seem like enough reason to me. Plus, he's simply the best player in college football right now.
His body type doesn't scare you? I don't know, Id shy away. Don't get me wrong, if you actually needed a RB id consider him, but Dallas doesn't need one. If I were them, id MUCH rather get a LT who can protect Romo for years and years opposed to getting a RB. RB is the easiest position to fill on a football team. And not to mention I think Barber is a beast. He just needs someone to spell him.

As a pure RB, I liked Peterson more. I know he's tall too, but he just runs better to my eyes. My main issue with McFadden is more of a measureable one. He's too tall and lanky. Thats what scares me about him. Im unsure of how that will translate at the next level. Even if he does wind up shutting me up and proving to be an all time great, do you really need him? Flozell isn't getting any younger, and with a young promising qb, I don't see why you wouldn't go after an elite LT instead. This is a great RB class too. RBs can be had later.

And your offense is fine. It really doesn't need another dimension. Id rather get a long term LT opposed to a RB.
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Old 09-19-2007, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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And your offense is fine. It really doesn't need another dimension. Id rather get a long term LT opposed to a RB.
I agree with you. Adding a LT would be a good move, but we have to see what the team thinks about Free.
I love McFadden, he's one of my favorite players in the NCAA, but I think we should use the Cleveland's pick to grab another player. I won't be upset if we draft him, but I prefer to see us using that top-10 pick to draft a CB/WR/NT/LT. I don't think we'll resign Julius, but I think we could find his replacement in the later rounds. A guy like Ray Rice would be a great fit to share carries with Barber, and we can use our first two picks for more important position, especially CB.
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Old 09-19-2007, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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I'd take McFadden and run away happy until his money breaks the bank and kills our team. :(

Ray Rice would make me happier. Cheaper and I love his style.
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Old 09-19-2007, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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I would rather have Hart than McFadden.
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Old 09-19-2007, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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I still think Juice will end up having a good year...but yeah, he's gonna be on the outs. MBIII will not be our featured back...if we dont team him up w/ Mcfadden or Slaton...it will probably be Mike Turner.

As for Slaton...he is 100% for real and he's going to be a hell of a pro. He's bulked up (probably around 205 now) and hasnt lossed any of that speed...he would be a fantastic fit. That being said...I want Run DMC.
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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LT is not a area of need. Why would we draft an elite left tackle when we have a guy who showed up and played great in training camp and preseason until he got hurt. Someone might say...but he's only a 4th round pick. He was arguably a first or second round pick before his injury...and was referred to as a freak.

Might Long be a safer pick yes? But the question is how much safer. Any prospect can bust. So we have to weigh...is a guy who showed great in preseason and would start of something happened to flo need to be replaced. Plus also factor in that you have one year invested in this prospect...which is one year in a NFL weight system.

I guess I just don't see us filling a void that looks to be already filled.
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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I still think Juice will end up having a good year...but yeah, he's gonna be on the outs. MBIII will not be our featured back...if we dont team him up w/ Mcfadden or Slaton...it will probably be Mike Turner.

As for Slaton...he is 100% for real and he's going to be a hell of a pro. He's bulked up (probably around 205 now) and hasnt lossed any of that speed...he would be a fantastic fit. That being said...I want Run DMC.
I don't get that rationale on several levels.

Julius may have a good year statistically when the season is over, but that doesn't mean he had a good year. There's just forsee so much better that could've happened. I hate his lack of vision, toughness and skill. He's JAG.

Why would we invest big money in Turner? Why would he come here? It's just more share time.

I don't like Slaton at all. People go up in arms when they talk about a system QB. Well Slaton is a system RB and nobody cares.
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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I think Slaton can make it in the NFL for the record if put into the right situation. He isn't going to be your workhorse...but he has a nice center of gravity can cut on a dime....explosive speed. He has great hands and above average vision. This is what we need with whoever is going to complement MB3. Oh ya, he also doesn't go down at first contact.
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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His body type doesn't scare you? I don't know, Id shy away. Don't get me wrong, if you actually needed a RB id consider him, but Dallas doesn't need one. If I were them, id MUCH rather get a LT who can protect Romo for years and years opposed to getting a RB. RB is the easiest position to fill on a football team. And not to mention I think Barber is a beast. He just needs someone to spell him.

As a pure RB, I liked Peterson more. I know he's tall too, but he just runs better to my eyes. My main issue with McFadden is more of a measureable one. He's too tall and lanky. Thats what scares me about him. Im unsure of how that will translate at the next level. Even if he does wind up shutting me up and proving to be an all time great, do you really need him? Flozell isn't getting any younger, and with a young promising qb, I don't see why you wouldn't go after an elite LT instead. This is a great RB class too. RBs can be had later.

And your offense is fine. It really doesn't need another dimension. Id rather get a long term LT opposed to a RB.
I look at it like this: Go back in time and tell me the names of the greatest of the great RBs. Emmitt. Barry. Marshall. Thurman Thomas. LT. Running backs like that are not easy to come by. You either have to spend a premium pick, or get lucky as all hell to get a player like that.

Sure, filling the RB position with a solid player is among the easiest things to do come draft day. I'm not looking for "solid". I'm looking for great.

In my humble opinion, only a great quarterback can have more of an impact on a team than a great running back. No defensive player, no offensive lineman, no wide receiver can carry a team like a truly great running back.

To get a guy of that quality, I would basically sacrifice just about anything. Now, if you don't feel that McFadden is the guy, then ok. But if you've ever been the fan of an All-Time Great at the running back position, then you would know what they can do. Every now and again you find someone like that in the mid or late rounds. Most of the time, though, you can spot them coming out of college with a cursory glance. I see that in McFadden. If I'm wrong about that, then so be it. But if I'm right, I have no question that he would be the best player to have in this draft. I respect and value O-line play tremendously, just as you do. I know the importance of pass rushers and cover men. I just don't think that, outside of a great QB, there is anything worth more to a team than a great running back.
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From what? His leg?
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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Marion is so effective because he runs so hard on all of his carries. If you run 10 100 yard sprints in a row your time will be much faster on your 3rd compared to your 10th. The same is true for Marion and the number of carries he gets in a game. He can run as hard as he can on 6-10 carries a game, but if you start giving him 15-20 you will get diminishing returns.

the last 2 games he had at least 15, the 2nd game I think he had 17 carries, which is the area you say he would bring in diminishing returns...


and using your logic, AND rb who gets more then 15 carries a game will have diminishing returns regardless of who it is...thats how you used that basis, as if no rb in the NFL is possible of running the ball that many times...once again he would still have a RB there to spell him, and you act like he's going to be running 100 yd sprints back to back...


and whats your criteria for figuring out which backs can and cant rush for more then 15 carries a game, or is that just speculation as well?
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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I don't get that rationale on several levels.

Julius may have a good year statistically when the season is over, but that doesn't mean he had a good year. There's just forsee so much better that could've happened. I hate his lack of vision, toughness and skill. He's JAG.

Why would we invest big money in Turner? Why would he come here? It's just more share time.

I don't like Slaton at all. People go up in arms when they talk about a system QB. Well Slaton is a system RB and nobody cares.
Julius is what he is. He's just as good as his overrated brother...statistically very similar last season. Who knows what his future beholds. I may be stuck on that first season but, yeah...he has it in him to be something special but, I dont know if that will ever come out. I hope he does well, elsewhere.

Mike Turner to Dallas has been a hot rumor for a while now...The market for a starting RB, like last season, may be slim so, he may not have a better option out there. He would actually be cheaper than drafting a guy like Mcfadden in the top 5. JJ gets his man and was believed to have a lot of interest in Turner the last two seasons, if that is the route we go. Turner only averaged about 5 carries per game last season...I think he would welcome a bigger role in Big D.

Slaton is a rediculous talent. Explodes out of the blocks...he possesses those natural RB moves...he should run in the low 4.4's...great vision and acceleration...fantastic strength for his size (he'll be putting up a bunch of reps at the combine) there isn't much not to like. He would be a good fit for us...he's no Mcfadden though...Run DMC would just add that much more...but, if we got Slaton, I'd still be pretty damn excited, he's a gamebreaker.
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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I really do feel that regardless of who we like -- it depends on what kind of system Garret is going to run and how we position MBIII within it.

Once you put those pieces of the puzzle, AND COMMIT TO FILL SOME D HOLES AT SOME POINT EARLY IN THE DRAFT, you have a clue which back is a better fit.

My read, go RB late 1 and take a Stewart or Slaton. Use the early one for either Phillips or Jake Long.

Second/third/fourth go find some corners, a high-potential NT or high potential small school WR.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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the last 2 games he had at least 15, the 2nd game I think he had 17 carries, which is the area you say he would bring in diminishing returns...


and using your logic, AND rb who gets more then 15 carries a game will have diminishing returns regardless of who it is...thats how you used that basis, as if no rb in the NFL is possible of running the ball that many times...once again he would still have a RB there to spell him, and you act like he's going to be running 100 yd sprints back to back...


and whats your criteria for figuring out which backs can and cant rush for more then 15 carries a game, or is that just speculation as well?
First of all, although it does apply to every RB to a certain degree, I clearly stated in my post that it applies to Marion more because of his running style. This is only week 2 of the season and I really believe that over the course of 16 games you can't give Marion 15 carries a game and expect him to be as effective as he has been. The nature of football won't allow it and he will also become susceptible to injury. In order for Marion to add the most to this team he needs to be kept fresh.
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