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Old 09-19-2007, 08:21 PM    (permalink
JeffSamardzijaIRISH
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Slaton looks to me like a rich-man's Julius Jones.
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Old 09-19-2007, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JeffSamardzijaIRISH View Post
Slaton looks to me like a rich-man's Julius Jones.
yeah, I dont see that one. Body type/size...they are similar but, Slaton is much shiftier, has better vision, and will not go down on first contact. Slaton also plays the game in a different gear than Julius.
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:16 PM    (permalink
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I would rather have Hart than McFadden.
I'll drink to that. I love McFadden, don't get me wrong. If we didn't have JJ or MB3, I'd be all for him. But the fact is we have both. So it'd be a waste of a pick when we have much more pressing needs.
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:21 PM    (permalink
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I look at it like this: Go back in time and tell me the names of the greatest of the great RBs. Emmitt. Barry. Marshall. Thurman Thomas. LT. Running backs like that are not easy to come by. You either have to spend a premium pick, or get lucky as all hell to get a player like that.

Sure, filling the RB position with a solid player is among the easiest things to do come draft day. I'm not looking for "solid". I'm looking for great.

In my humble opinion, only a great quarterback can have more of an impact on a team than a great running back. No defensive player, no offensive lineman, no wide receiver can carry a team like a truly great running back.

To get a guy of that quality, I would basically sacrifice just about anything. Now, if you don't feel that McFadden is the guy, then ok. But if you've ever been the fan of an All-Time Great at the running back position, then you would know what they can do. Every now and again you find someone like that in the mid or late rounds. Most of the time, though, you can spot them coming out of college with a cursory glance. I see that in McFadden. If I'm wrong about that, then so be it. But if I'm right, I have no question that he would be the best player to have in this draft. I respect and value O-line play tremendously, just as you do. I know the importance of pass rushers and cover men. I just don't think that, outside of a great QB, there is anything worth more to a team than a great running back.
Theres no question that a great RB can do wonders for an offense. And me personally, I think a great RB is 3rd on the list (i have pass rusher ahead of it as far as dominating a game) of players who can take over games.

But, you don't need an elite one to win superbowls. At the end of the day, thats the ultimate goal right? Superbowls are won at the lines. Dominant trenches. I think Dallas has enough firepower on offense to win a SB as is. They are better off ensuring that their oline stays consistently elite by drafting an elite talent at LT. Most teams that won SBs did not have an elite HOF rb. SBs can be won with a RBC. But they cannot be obtained without great line play.

McFadden would be strictly a luxury pick in my eyes. I don't think Dallas is in that position to make such a pick. They need to shore up the dline, get a young WR, a young LT, and a CB. And probably a FS.

If you guys do in fact get him, you shouldnt be upset by any means. He's a great prospect. I just think it would be wiser to invest in other avenues.
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:32 PM    (permalink
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Theres no question that a great RB can do wonders for an offense. And me personally, I think a great RB is 3rd on the list (i have pass rusher ahead of it as far as dominating a game) of players who can take over games.

But, you don't need an elite one to win superbowls. At the end of the day, thats the ultimate goal right? Superbowls are won at the lines. Dominant trenches. I think Dallas has enough firepower on offense to win a SB as is. They are better off ensuring that their oline stays consistently elite by drafting an elite talent at LT. Most teams that won SBs did not have an elite HOF rb. SBs can be won with a RBC. But they cannot be obtained without great line play.

McFadden would be strictly a luxury pick in my eyes. I don't think Dallas is in that position to make such a pick. They need to shore up the dline, get a young WR, a young LT, and a CB. And probably a FS.

If you guys do in fact get him, you shouldnt be upset by any means. He's a great prospect. I just think it would be wiser to invest in other avenues.
Amen. RB in Round 1 never made any real sense to me. OT or DL has to be addressed. RB value can be found all throughout the draft. It's about finding the one that fits your needs. The last thing we need is a prima donna RB that is hungry for money and playing time.

Should I say it again??? Heck, why not.... RAY RICE BABY!!!! :D
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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I think they should slightly increase his workload, but don't give him 25 carries a game.

I like the thought of anywhere from 15-17 carries a game, and spell him with a guy who will get you 12 to 13 carries a game. Thats a good fit. Initially I thought he should get 80% of the touches, but the more I see him and how he runs, I have a feeling that if his workload is increased that much, he will get injured. He runs like every play is the last play of the game, and its 4th down. That can be dangerous for him in the long run.

A RB by committee is great. It keeps everyone fresh. Im a believer in it.
This would be the ideal situation. I'm hoping that JJ can stop pressing so much and run naturally.
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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Said the same of Warrick Dunn and Reggie Bush.

A little smallish but real play makers if you ask me.
Two totally different players.

Dunn can run inside and actually prefers it.
Bush is always trying to bounce it outside.

I'd take Dunn in his prime over Bush. To be honest, I doubt Bush will ever be a full time back in the NFL.
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:46 PM    (permalink
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How many years does Barber have left in his contract?
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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Slaton looks to me like a rich-man's Julius Jones.
A rich man's JJ is still pretty bad. Slaton is better than that. I like Slaton, just not in the first round. Late second or beyond, that's fine.
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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How many years does Barber have left in his contract?
He's restricted this season.
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Old 09-20-2007, 12:14 AM    (permalink
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McFadden would be strictly a luxury pick in my eyes. I don't think Dallas is in that position to make such a pick. They need to shore up the dline, get a young WR, a young LT, and a CB. And probably a FS.
Amen brother. You are a gaht dang truth teller.

Truth Teller should be your screen name.
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Old 09-20-2007, 12:16 AM    (permalink
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Two totally different players.

Dunn can run inside and actually prefers it.
Bush is always trying to bounce it outside.

I'd take Dunn in his prime over Bush. To be honest, I doubt Bush will ever be a full time back in the NFL.
I was not comparing running styles whatsoever. I am saying they can both take it to the house with their speed and elusiveness.

I was simply stating the many people said of Dunn and Bush that they can't deal with the NFL pounding.

So if you disagree with dat ... fine ... but there is no flaw in the analysis as you would point out.
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Old 09-20-2007, 12:37 AM    (permalink
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Amen brother. You are a gaht dang truth teller.

Truth Teller should be your screen name.
They need to shore up the dline, get a young WR, a young LT, and a CB. And probably a FS....

I agree and disagree with BBD...

- I don't think we need to "shore up" (if that means solidifying depth) along the DL. I think we need starters at all 3 positions.

- On WR, I don't think we need another young one. I think the smarter route and the one I prefer is addressing it via FA. Young WRs (that are worth a darn) have to be taken too early in drafts, they also take a while to develop and are a huge gamble. Sure you can hit on one and be lucky, but what first round WR has made a huge splash in the last 5 years (outside of the first 5 picks)? Not too many... if any.

- I do agree on addressing a young LT and CB through the draft.

- FS? Yet to be determined. I like what I've seen of Hamlin so far... Big enough need for a first rounder? I don't think so.

First round worthy needs are LT, DL, CB. That's all. ...and I know we have Free. I see Free as a potential replacement for Kosier if he doesn't pan out at LT.
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Old 09-20-2007, 01:04 AM    (permalink
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All this LT talk makes me sick. I know top 5 LT's are about as much of a lock on draft day as you can get. But we did just draft a stud. Our OL is looking great. If we lose Flo....McQ and Free both have a great chance at being starting LT's. Free showed dominance against everyone except Ware in 1 on 1's. He also shut down everyone in preseason and was our best pass blocking lineman. He was weak when driving the lineman off the ball....but coming off a knee injury could do that to your lower body strength. Give him a year in the offseason in a NFL workout program he will be a top tier LT. What does Jake Long or Sam Baker have that he doesn't?
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Old 09-20-2007, 01:11 AM    (permalink
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- On WR, I don't think we need another young one. I think the smarter route and the one I prefer is addressing it via FA. Young WRs (that are worth a darn) have to be taken too early in drafts, they also take a while to develop and are a huge gamble. Sure you can hit on one and be lucky, but what first round WR has made a huge splash in the last 5 years (outside of the first 5 picks)? Not too many... if any.
Last year was Santonio Holmes - WR. He would be exactly what the doctor ordered right now. Getting better and better.

MARK CLAYTON WR is putting up. He is also exactly what we are looking for.

ROY WILLIAMS was a good pick at 7

LEE EVANS is a stud and went 13th.

Javon Walker went 20th in 2002. He turned out ok.

Santana Moss and Reggie Wayne came out of 2001 in the first round.

PLAXICO BURRESS came out of the 2000 class.

Now while there isn't an exact prospect that will hit. There has been atleast one WR from the first round turn out to match their draft status since 2000.
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Old 09-20-2007, 02:19 AM    (permalink
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Julius Jones explained to the media Monday morning that the Dolphins' defense keyed on him, allowing Marion Barber to bust loose. Makes sense that Barber would have wide-open running lanes with Miami's eyes on the back standing on the sideline.

However, my eyes saw that one back was far superior at breaking tackles and making guys miss. Any guesses which one that was?

I counted the broken/missed tackles on both of their last 11 carries (including Jones' 10-yard run negated by holding). Barber had 11 broken/missed tackles on those 11 carries, gaining 79 yards. Jones had two -- both on the 10-yarder that was called back -- and gained 25 yards.

Barber didn't break any tackles or make anyone miss on his 40-yard touchdown run, which came against a tired D that Jones credited himself for loosening up. But Barber sure did run away from a safety, pretty impressive for a guy who supposedly doesn't have breakaway speed.
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:00 AM    (permalink
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Last year was Santonio Holmes - WR. He would be exactly what the doctor ordered right now. Getting better and better.

MARK CLAYTON WR is putting up. He is also exactly what we are looking for.
I was extremely high on Clayton, but I expected more out of him so far in his career. I don't blame QB play as much as some of his other critics.

ROY WILLIAMS was a good pick at 7
OK, but Furrey and McDonald have also put up numbers in that offense, proving that they didn't need to spend the 7th pick on a WR. Roy has had a slew of injuries as well. Sorta injury prone. I do think there were better players available.


LEE EVANS is a stud and went 13th.
He finally broke out at the end of last year. That's a long time to wait. Makes FA sound like a better, quicker and safer solution. Where is he this year, btw???

Javon Walker went 20th in 2002. He turned out ok.
He's had one good year so far since 2002.

Santana Moss and Reggie Wayne came out of 2001 in the first round.
How long did it take for them to come to fruition? Exactly.

PLAXICO BURRESS came out of the 2000 class.
...and he's no longer with the team that drafted him. FA is the way to go.

Now while there isn't an exact prospect that will hit. There has been atleast one WR from the first round turn out to match their draft status since 2000.
response in bold.
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:27 AM    (permalink
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I agree with Thule on the LT position. We have our own guy in the RT position in Marten. If Marten won't be our RT for years to come, it'd mean that he was a bust.
For the LT position we have Free, who can be a very good player for us, he needs time but he has a ton of potential.
D, what do you think of Free? Don't you trust him? Because if we draft a LT with a top 5 pick it means we're givin up on him.

My ideal draft would be:

1a. The top rated CB
1b. Earl Bennett
2. NT
3. RB
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Old 09-20-2007, 04:12 AM    (permalink
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I agree with Thule on the LT position. We have our own guy in the RT position in Marten. If Marten won't be our RT for years to come, it'd mean that he was a bust.
For the LT position we have Free, who can be a very good player for us, he needs time but he has a ton of potential.
D, what do you think of Free? Don't you trust him? Because if we draft a LT with a top 5 pick it means we're givin up on him.

My ideal draft would be:

1a. The top rated CB
1b. Earl Bennett
2. NT
3. RB
I like Free a lot, but I also think he's versatile enough that he could work out at LG and take the spot of Kosier. It's kind of weird right now. None of us are in position to see or know Free's progress or know what the coaches think of him or plan for him. I think that Free can be a LT in this league, but I'm not 100% sure of that. I do know that Flozell's time is up. ...and if Free isn't the answer, then Long or Baker sure would help put us over the top into the elite OL class. I soooo want that. Free or Long could also step in at RT if Marten doesn't pan out. With Columbo on a short contract, OT will be a need sooner rather than later.
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Old 09-20-2007, 10:01 AM    (permalink
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They need to shore up the dline, get a young WR, a young LT, and a CB. And probably a FS....

I agree and disagree with BBD...

- I don't think we need to "shore up" (if that means solidifying depth) along the DL. I think we need starters at all 3 positions.

- On WR, I don't think we need another young one. I think the smarter route and the one I prefer is addressing it via FA. Young WRs (that are worth a darn) have to be taken too early in drafts, they also take a while to develop and are a huge gamble. Sure you can hit on one and be lucky, but what first round WR has made a huge splash in the last 5 years (outside of the first 5 picks)? Not too many... if any.

- I do agree on addressing a young LT and CB through the draft.

- FS? Yet to be determined. I like what I've seen of Hamlin so far... Big enough need for a first rounder? I don't think so.

First round worthy needs are LT, DL, CB. That's all. ...and I know we have Free. I see Free as a potential replacement for Kosier if he doesn't pan out at LT.
we're in agreement, I meant shore up as in a complete overhaul. They need to draft 2 starters on the dline, a DE and NT, or if they have faith in Ratliff at NT, 2 DEs.

In regards to FA WRs...you know my stance on WRs. I feel theyre overrated. The scary thing about picking up FA ones though is that theyre alot of money. I wouldn't want to invest heavy money in WRs if I were a GM.

But age is definately an issue at the WR position for you guys. Crayton is disappointing me so far. He seems like he's a career slot guy. Glenn is toast, and TO is getting old. You need a legit guy, Id spend a 2nd rounder on one, or a 3rd. Less financial investment, and you can usually get a solid WR in those rounds.

I guess if you want to try to fix all the issues in one year, you can get a FA WR. Im not sure who's available though.
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Old 09-20-2007, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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Julius Jones explained to the media Monday morning that the Dolphins' defense keyed on him, allowing Marion Barber to bust loose.
I have been calling Julius Jones a g*d dang fahgot for awhile. Nice to see him say he is one. What a poontang yack off.

If Jerrah does not let this lil cancer go after this year .....
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Old 09-20-2007, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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we're in agreement, I meant shore up as in a complete overhaul. They need to draft 2 starters on the dline, a DE and NT, or if they have faith in Ratliff at NT, 2 DEs.
Personally I would not invest a penny more in DL. I would redeploy our talent.

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In regards to FA WRs...you know my stance on WRs. I feel theyre overrated. The scary thing about picking up FA ones though is that theyre alot of money. I wouldn't want to invest heavy money in WRs if I were a GM.
Not sure I get this thought. A great WR is a great WR if you have the QB and line to support him.

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But age is definately an issue at the WR position for you guys. Crayton is disappointing me so far. He seems like he's a career slot guy.
Unfair, Crayton has always been a Slot Guy. So is Hurd IMHO. Why folks have these inflated expectations of less than gifted players .... They are what they are and I love them both for 3rd WR.

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Glenn is toast, and TO is getting old. You need a legit guy, Id spend a 2nd rounder on one, or a 3rd. Less financial investment, and you can usually get a solid WR in those rounds.
Been talking this for some time. Let Sidney Rice go. Let Steve Smith go. Let ..... and this past draft had some excellent WR depth.

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I guess if you want to try to fix all the issues in one year, you can get a FA WR. Im not sure who's available though.
Who is avail is really the question.
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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Theres no question that a great RB can do wonders for an offense. And me personally, I think a great RB is 3rd on the list (i have pass rusher ahead of it as far as dominating a game) of players who can take over games.

But, you don't need an elite one to win superbowls. At the end of the day, thats the ultimate goal right? Superbowls are won at the lines. Dominant trenches. I think Dallas has enough firepower on offense to win a SB as is. They are better off ensuring that their oline stays consistently elite by drafting an elite talent at LT. Most teams that won SBs did not have an elite HOF rb. SBs can be won with a RBC. But they cannot be obtained without great line play.

McFadden would be strictly a luxury pick in my eyes. I don't think Dallas is in that position to make such a pick. They need to shore up the dline, get a young WR, a young LT, and a CB. And probably a FS.

If you guys do in fact get him, you shouldnt be upset by any means. He's a great prospect. I just think it would be wiser to invest in other avenues.
Obviously, there are more ways than one to go about winning it all. The predominant theme among nearly all SB champs is a very good-to-great quarterback. I am becoming more convinced by the day that we have that in place.

After that......you know, if I saw a prospect at DE or LT that I felt was as sure a thing, with as much upside as McFadden, I would not be opposed to getting that guy instead. For example, Chris Long has been shooting up draft boards. Scouts Inc. had him at the top of the board pre-season, but various other outfits (especially Kiper) had him as a late-first type of guy. He is born to play the 3-4, it seems, and would be a great fit in what we do. But is he a Bruce Smith caliber prospect (remember, Bruce played DT in college, and was the #1 overall pick)? I don't feel that he is.

Likewise, both J. Long and Baker don't give me visions of Boselli or Munoz. But take a step back. Did either of those guys ever win a SB? Nope. Come to think of it, of the Pace, Ogden, Jones triumvirate, only Pace played an indispensable role in a SB winning team (not to downplay Ogden, but Baltimore's offense was basically there just because the rules required it, that team lived and died on defense, and would likely have won it all with an average LT playing anyway). Really, the correlation to winning SBs is only there at QB, which is indicative of how important that position is.

I think about the Dallas teams of the 90s, and our LT was our weakest player. Tuinei was a very good LT, but not close to being an all-timer, and I still think that line was the best that I have ever seen in the NFL. So I don't feel like that position is indispensable, though it is important, no doubt.

My feeling is that, from what I have seen, McFadden has the best chance to be a great player of anyone expected to be in the draft this year. Not only that, but we don't have anyone at his position that would make it overkill to get him. He would complement Marion Barber superbly.

At the end of the day, great players are what win you championships. Regardless of position, those types are what get you over the hump. When I look at McFadden, I see all the physical skills to be an amazing, mind-blowing player at the next level, plus that intangible sense of being a natural at the game. He just has those instincts that tell him what to do at any given moment on the field. To me, he literally has it all. I like him better than Bush, and just as much as AD before the injury issue clouded his future.

When it all comes down to it, I see greatness there. That has got to be the determining factor in draft a guy. Would you rather have a Pro Bowler at a position of need, or a Hall of Famer at a position where you are pretty solid? I take the HOFer every time.
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Old 09-20-2007, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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we're in agreement, I meant shore up as in a complete overhaul. They need to draft 2 starters on the dline, a DE and NT, or if they have faith in Ratliff at NT, 2 DEs.

In regards to FA WRs...you know my stance on WRs. I feel theyre overrated. The scary thing about picking up FA ones though is that theyre alot of money. I wouldn't want to invest heavy money in WRs if I were a GM.

But age is definately an issue at the WR position for you guys. Crayton is disappointing me so far. He seems like he's a career slot guy. Glenn is toast, and TO is getting old. You need a legit guy, Id spend a 2nd rounder on one, or a 3rd. Less financial investment, and you can usually get a solid WR in those rounds.

I guess if you want to try to fix all the issues in one year, you can get a FA WR. Im not sure who's available though.
I'm glad we're in agreement on the DL. I feel the same way about our DL, they way I felt about our OL last year. We've made a 180 degree turnaround and the OL is now one of our strongest units. The guys that we have on our DL have not been able to flourish in their roles. Call it youth... inexperience... improper usage... They just don't step up when the lights come on. I think they are salvageable and worthy of back up roles, but we need more production attacking the backfield from our DE spots. If one of our three young guys out of Canty, Spears or Hatcher can be what we hoped for them when we drafted them, then at least we will have one leg to stand on. I really think that we need to address one of the other spots along the line... NT or DE in FA or trade. We just need someone more established and more experienced who can be a leader for that unit. Ferguson is not that type of player.

On WR, I don't mind at all spending a second round pick on one. I'm just not a fan of drafting one in the first, unless they are really really REALLY special.
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Old 09-20-2007, 01:03 PM    (permalink
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Obviously, there are more ways than one to go about winning it all. The predominant theme among nearly all SB champs is a very good-to-great quarterback. I am becoming more convinced by the day that we have that in place.

After that......you know, if I saw a prospect at DE or LT that I felt was as sure a thing, with as much upside as McFadden, I would not be opposed to getting that guy instead. For example, Chris Long has been shooting up draft boards. Scouts Inc. had him at the top of the board pre-season, but various other outfits (especially Kiper) had him as a late-first type of guy. He is born to play the 3-4, it seems, and would be a great fit in what we do. But is he a Bruce Smith caliber prospect (remember, Bruce played DT in college, and was the #1 overall pick)? I don't feel that he is.

Likewise, both J. Long and Baker don't give me visions of Boselli or Munoz. But take a step back. Did either of those guys ever win a SB? Nope. Come to think of it, of the Pace, Ogden, Jones triumvirate, only Pace played an indispensable role in a SB winning team (not to downplay Ogden, but Baltimore's offense was basically there just because the rules required it, that team lived and died on defense, and would likely have won it all with an average LT playing anyway). Really, the correlation to winning SBs is only there at QB, which is indicative of how important that position is.

I think about the Dallas teams of the 90s, and our LT was our weakest player. Tuinei was a very good LT, but not close to being an all-timer, and I still think that line was the best that I have ever seen in the NFL. So I don't feel like that position is indispensable, though it is important, no doubt.

My feeling is that, from what I have seen, McFadden has the best chance to be a great player of anyone expected to be in the draft this year. Not only that, but we don't have anyone at his position that would make it overkill to get him. He would complement Marion Barber superbly.

At the end of the day, great players are what win you championships. Regardless of position, those types are what get you over the hump. When I look at McFadden, I see all the physical skills to be an amazing, mind-blowing player at the next level, plus that intangible sense of being a natural at the game. He just has those instincts that tell him what to do at any given moment on the field. To me, he literally has it all. I like him better than Bush, and just as much as AD before the injury issue clouded his future.

When it all comes down to it, I see greatness there. That has got to be the determining factor in draft a guy. Would you rather have a Pro Bowler at a position of need, or a Hall of Famer at a position where you are pretty solid? I take the HOFer every time.
I see some right and wrong there. I don't think you NEED to have an elite QB to win the SB. You can have a bus driver if you have a solid defense and a decent supporting cast on offense.

Look at Trent Dilfer (Ravens), Brad Johnson (Bucs), Big Ben (Steelers)... heck, even Tom Brady was more bus driver early in his career with the Patriots defense being at the top of the league when he won his first 2 SBs.

I have no doubt that McFadden will be good in the NFL. I just think we have other needs to address. Even if the talent isn't what we want up top, we still have the option of trading down and picking up more picks. We all know Jerry loves to do that. The addition of McFadden means our running game is inadequate and pressing. I don't feel we're at that point.
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