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Old 09-18-2007, 04:18 PM    (permalink
BX
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Doesn't this make our d-line stronger?

Perhaps not on first down, but Tank is going to be a monster on the nickel and dime.
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Old 09-18-2007, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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Nickel Lineup..

Ware
T. Johnson
Ratliff
Hatcher

Burnett
Carpenter / R. Williams

That's outrageous.
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Old 09-18-2007, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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Not to defend Tank Johnson, but Bear51 comments about keeping loaded guns in a house with children bothers me. I keep a loaded gun in my house at all times and I have a young daughter. That doesn't mean the gun is within her contact, but the fact that it's loaded is neither against the law nor is it a problem in my opinion.

The fact his guns weren't registered is a problem.
It's not "a" loaded gun. Tank had enough weaponry to start his own militia. Also, some of the weapons he had were illegal, registered or not. Whatever your position on gun control is (and frankly I could care) it's the fact that Tank is so ungodly stupid (as mentioned before) that is the real detriment to him.

I mean...he was on probation...had multipe violations and run-ins with the law, and he was drinking and driving at 4 in the morning. I knew a team would take a flyer on him (not suprisingly the Cowboys) and maybe he will turn his life around...some people do. I wish him no malice or anything of the like. But he doesn't seem like he's got the marbles to realize that being a "thug" and being a professional human being don't mix.
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Old 09-18-2007, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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It's not "a" loaded gun. Tank had enough weaponry to start his own militia. Also, some of the weapons he had were illegal, registered or not. Whatever your position on gun control is (and frankly I could care) it's the fact that Tank is so ungodly stupid (as mentioned before) that is the real detriment to him.

I mean...he was on probation...had multipe violations and run-ins with the law, and he was drinking and driving at 4 in the morning. I knew a team would take a flyer on him (not suprisingly the Cowboys) and maybe he will turn his life around...some people do. I wish him no malice or anything of the like. But he doesn't seem like he's got the marbles to realize that being a "thug" and being a professional human being don't mix.


what free agents have we signed that are "thugs"? cause im not aware of many, unless your throwing him and TO in the same class
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Old 09-18-2007, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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Horrible signing but nothing surprises me with Jerrah GM.

Unless we "are inventorying" Tank for a trade or switching to a newer, more fashionable 4-3, I don't get it.

I am sure nearly everyone thinks it is great but don't count me.

Jerry is the George Steinbrenner of Football. Just sign big names and pray it helps the team and fits the scheme!
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Old 09-18-2007, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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Say bye-bye to CB Nate Jones, per DC.com

Edit: According to the same article, tomorrow the 'Boys can put Tank on a Suspended list, freeing up that roster spot until Week 9. So I suppose Nate will be back then.
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Old 09-18-2007, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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Say bye-bye to CB Nate Jones, per DC.com

Edit: According to the same article, tomorrow the 'Boys can put Tank on a Suspended list, freeing up that roster spot until Week 9. So I suppose Nate will be back then.
So instead of like a Stanback who won't play this year you get rid of Jones?

Groundhog day on Jerrah GM. Wow. Anyway. Hope we beat the Bears.
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Old 09-18-2007, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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Nobody is going to snatch up Nathan Jones if we release him for a day.

If we let go of Stanback, he'll be signed away by 1 p.m. tomorrow.
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Old 09-18-2007, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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Edit: Already reported
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Old 09-18-2007, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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Nickel Lineup..

Ware
T. Johnson
Ratliff
Hatcher

Burnett
Carpenter / R. Williams

That's outrageous.
With Ellis back I don't know who's gonna play the other DE spot. It's between Hatcher, Spencer and Ellis. Spencer has played the nickel and Hatcher the dime so far.
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Old 09-18-2007, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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I like the signing. I think, at the very least, we can expect him to be on his best behavior for the rest of this season.

When you come to the point where you have to choose between having a professional football career, getting paid millions of dollars, and getting hot women, and being a dumb ass, only the most incredibly stupid players make the choice to give up football.

I hope this helps us.
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He was protecting his self
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From what? His leg?
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
"We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

DeMarcus Ware
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Old 09-18-2007, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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I like the signing. I think, at the very least, we can expect him to be on his best behavior for the rest of this season.

When you come to the point where you have to choose between having a professional football career, getting paid millions of dollars, and getting hot women, and being a dumb ass, only the most incredibly stupid players make the choice to give up football.

I hope this helps us.
Here's a good point:

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I see people question Tank Johnson’s ability to play NT at 300. Sure he can. Nose tackle is about power, technique and leverage. On inside running plays, the nose tackle will be double teamed by the center and the run-side guard, who will then scrape off and chase a linebacker. Good NTs know how to “grab grass” and cause a pileup.

Johnson played some offset DT at Chicago, tying up centers and keeping star DT Tommie Harris free from double teams. Think back to the great ’90s Cowboys’ teams. Tony Casillas played the same role in Jimmy Johnson’s 4-3 and I don’t think he ever played a game above 285. But Casillas, who excelled on the nose at Oklahoma, understood leverage. He was a master at beating double-teams. He would get inside the center on the run side, engage the guard, dip his shoulder and drop to one knee at just the right time, allowing the guard to slide off, and then grind his way into the running back’s lane.

If you’ve got the guts and the technique, you can live inside at a smaller weight. Jim Burt did it for Bill Parcells’ 3-4 Giants defenses at 265 lbs. Greg Kragen did it for Dan Reeves’ Super Bowl Broncos 3-4s at the same weight.
Source: http://theboysblog.com/2007/09/18/chicagos-next/
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Old 09-18-2007, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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Never saw Jim Burt deal with 320lb Centers, 330 Lb Guards and occasionally 340 lb Tackles.

Dimensions have changed. But hey, who cares. We signed a big name into a scheme he does not fit or ever played in.

RAH RAH, hope we beat the Bears.
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Old 09-18-2007, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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I hope this helps us.
We agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-18-2007, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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what free agents have we signed that are "thugs"? cause im not aware of many, unless your throwing him and TO in the same class
You're not aware of the history of the Cowboys are you? Half of the guys on those Superbowl teams (both of them) did coke off of dead hookers at halftime.
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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You're not aware of the history of the Cowboys are you? Half of the guys on those Superbowl teams (both of them) did coke off of dead hookers at halftime.
If we can win the same way, I wouldn't give a damn.
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Old 09-19-2007, 03:46 AM    (permalink
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Dimensions have changed. But hey, who cares. We signed a big name into a scheme he does not fit or ever played in.

RAH RAH, hope we beat the Bears.
You don't know if he fits in the scheme. It's very hard to find a true 3-4 NT, it's very hard to find one comin out of college and it's almost impossible to pick one from another 3-4 team, they're not gonna give their NT to another team.
Guys like Soliai or Branch haven't ever play the position, but you wanted the team to draft them. Why you were sure that they could play the position? Don't tell me because they're big. Haloti Ngata is big but he plays DE, not NT. Kelly Gregg is the NT in Baltimore and he is 310 (10 more than Johnson).
So you'll have to wait at least to week 9 and see how Tank plays the position. You don't even know if he can play at bigger size, but you're already pulling the trigger on him being an horrible acquisition.
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:14 AM    (permalink
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Here is the contract info...no garunteed money...he is basically free to cut at anytime. So for all the nay-sayers out there....it didn't hurt to give him a chance.

The Cowboys will pay Johnson a prorated base salary of $510,000 this year, depending on how many games he plays, and he will earn a $605,000 base salary in 2008 with the chance to earn more money through incentives. (ed. note - the prorated salary is expected to be $225,000 this year)
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Old 09-19-2007, 08:23 AM    (permalink
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You don't know if he fits in the scheme.
That can be said of every player, every time they move teams, from pop warner to JV, JV to Varsity, Varsity to College and College to Pros.

Regardless, any GM can go out and sign any big name from FA (or Waiver Wire) and plug them into a "position of need" then claim "it doesn't work."

I just don't buy this line of thinking about not knowing. You are like the 3rd or 4th poster who uses it and it perplexes me.

When taking a player -- you are projecting. When projecting you don't "know" 100% but you assign probabilities, qualitatively or quantitatively.

I give Tank a very low shot at being anything more than what Ratliff is right now. A light Tackle who penetrates nicely.

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It's very hard to find a true 3-4 NT.
This is why smart GMs draft them and develop them. But since Jerrah GM does neither.

Personally, I just don't think Jerrah is commited to the 3-4 and never has been.

Which explains all the first rounders and FA signings that don't fit the scheme.

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it's very hard to find one comin out of college and it's almost impossible to pick one from another 3-4 team, they're not gonna give their NT to another team.
I never said GIVE. I said trade. A nice 2nd rounder or 3rd for a developmental guy.

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Guys like Soliai or Branch haven't ever play the position, but you wanted the team to draft them. Why you were sure that they could play the position?
This is the KNOW argument once again. Their is a 0% chance and 99.9% chance. Pick a number and assign it. I do 50%.

But I think is is MORE LIKELY and fat ass like Soliai or Watson who are not big penterators can play 3-4 Two Gap NT.

Tank I give a 25% chance as a NT.

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Don't tell me because they're big.
There is a 100% correlation between being very thick (big top to bottom and sideways) and being a great NT.

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Haloti Ngata is big but he plays DE, not NT. Kelly Gregg is the NT in Baltimore and he is 310 (10 more than Johnson).
Haloti was picked to be a DT/NT in the Hybrid system.

Kelley is a true 0 Gap NT who is also 5"10. 310 and 5"10 is almost as good (with long arms) as 6"4 and 340.

But pulling one (bad) example from your hat is not a probabalistic argument. It is like saying "You gotta being in it to win it" when discussing the lottery.

Sure but ... your odds increase as you buy more tickets. So if you want to pick a NT you find measurements closer to a template so that you can succeed.

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So you'll have to wait at least to week 9
I don't need to wait to have a strong opinion. What new data get presented once he plays he subject to renewed analysis.

TIll then, I will take a hypothesis driven approach to addressing Key Issues and Potential Solutions.

To me it is much better than your approach and say "You don't know." "We will see." That approach is called Boiling the Ocean -- it works if you have unlimited time and unlimited money and unlimited opportunities.

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and see how Tank plays the position. You don't even know if he can play at bigger size, but you're already pulling the trigger on him being an horrible acquisition.
Maybe he can. Once again, picking up any player is a probabilistic game. I assign a low probability to Tank being able to effectively be anything more than Ratliff when what we need is Casey Hampton.

Modano, I know you love the team but it is DEFENSIVELY a miss mash of very talented ball players with at least half of the starters out of position.

(** and don't think this "You Don't Know" argument does not equally apply to saying "Sit Roy and we are better" or for that matter that "Spears is a NT." You don't know either. **)
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Old 09-19-2007, 08:27 AM    (permalink
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So for all the nay-sayers out there....it didn't hurt to give him a chance.
Sure it does, it took away a roster spot from another player who could help.

Who helps out more is definately a "You Don't Know" situation.

You are just placing bets. It is not a zero sum game.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:42 AM    (permalink
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Funny how some can be so self-righteous about these types of things.

It's a no risk type of deal.
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Old 09-19-2007, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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You're not aware of the history of the Cowboys are you? Half of the guys on those Superbowl teams (both of them) did coke off of dead hookers at halftime.
yea im sure you were right there with them....and which of those players were free agent signings? as I asked before since you know better then I do...care to name players, or just say "half of those guys"
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Old 09-19-2007, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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Horrible signing but nothing surprises me with Jerrah GM.

Unless we "are inventorying" Tank for a trade or switching to a newer, more fashionable 4-3, I don't get it.

I am sure nearly everyone thinks it is great but don't count me.

Jerry is the George Steinbrenner of Football. Just sign big names and pray it helps the team and fits the scheme!
you make jerry jones sound like daniel snyder, which he is far from...snyder is the one who signs big names, doesnt build through the draft, trades away draft picks every year etc etc...


yea he may not be a perfect fit, but so what? he doesnt cost much, he will be less then 285K with only an 8 game salary, and we need another huge body in the center with talent...you find a way for everything to be negative and then throw jerry under the bus, as if it would be better if we sat around and kept who we had it would be alot better...


if it doesnt work out, so what? look at the cost of things, he's cheaper then a rookie right now anyway, and your probably in the minority again as to those who think this signing is "dumb" or pointless...


But I guess hamlin was pointless as well, TO, Leonard Davis, all those guys were signings that didnt fit and just big names...i think you do have us confused with the redskins, half our team is draft picks not FA signings
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Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:27 AM    (permalink
robert_in_bigd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
you make jerry jones sound like daniel snyder, which he is far from...snyder is the one who signs big names, doesnt build through the draft, trades away draft picks every year etc etc...
Not as short sided but going along the same path. At least Snyder does not play Player Personnel -- he just throws around money to toys his coaches want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
yea he may not be a perfect fit, but so what? he doesnt cost much, he will be less then 285K with only an 8 game salary,
He costs you a roster spot on D.

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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
and we need another huge body in the center with talent...
Ratliff is as good as Tank Johnson in the type of role Tank played in Chi.

Tank is not a big body by any NT standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
you find a way for everything to be negative and then throw jerry under the bus, as if it would be better if we sat around and kept who we had it would be alot better...
Sometimes, you gotta stand still to let the storm pass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
if it doesnt work out, so what? look at the cost of things, he's cheaper then a rookie right now anyway, and your probably in the minority again as to those who think this signing is "dumb" or pointless...
Just throwing a body at it instead of paying up for a potentially smart solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
But I guess hamlin was pointless as well, TO, Leonard Davis, all those guys were signings that didnt fit and just big names...i think you do have us confused with the redskins, half our team is draft picks not FA signings
I liked TO at the time but would have let him go to keep BP. Still would.

I liked Leonard Davis but would have preferred Hutch in 2006 and saved ourselves that horrid Kosier signing.

I like Hamlin as a player but he is a SS and we already have Davis and Watkins and Elam (who was cut) plus "The Player" who can't play any DB role. All are SS types.

BTW, Hamlin too was a Jerrah Jones cheap it out move. Cheap in the sense that he values his draft picks way too much. Jeez, heaven forbid you give up some draft picks to get real FS or NT value from another team. How about a second for Kris Jenkins or Gabe Watson.

No, can't do that. Jerrah loves him his draft picks. He gets to say "I did it" if he ever wins another SB.

Like the Switzer move. Completely stupid but he did it to prove a point. Sad fact is that point proved just how valuable a real GM (Johnson) was to building the team b/c it was all down hill talent and "fit" wise from 1994.

We are going down hill as we speak right now. Just takes time for the results to come in.

Last edited by robert_in_bigd : 09-19-2007 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
You're not aware of the history of the Cowboys are you? Half of the guys on those Superbowl teams (both of them) did coke off of dead hookers at halftime.
Let's go to the Video tape!

I don't like the signing, but I understand why, Cowboys to the Super bowl. WOW.
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