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Old 09-19-2007, 05:13 PM    (permalink
thule
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Sure it does, it took away a roster spot from another player who could help.

Who helps out more is definately a "You Don't Know" situation.

You are just placing bets. It is not a zero sum game.
If Jones passes waivers today he will be brought back tomorrow. Not sure how that is taking away a roster spot....it's one day.
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Old 09-19-2007, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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Cheap in the sense that he values his draft picks way too much. Jeez, heaven forbid you give up some draft picks to get real FS or NT value from another team. How about a second for Kris Jenkins or Gabe Watson.

No, can't do that. Jerrah loves him his draft picks. He gets to say "I did it" if he ever wins another SB.

well guess you cant make everyone happy...I guess you would like us better like the redskins that get 2 draft picks per year and trade the rest away, one first day, one second day and call it a draft...heaven forbid an owner wanting to build through the draft then FA, ya I cant believe Jerry and his antics
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Old 09-19-2007, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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Not as short sided but going along the same path. At least Snyder does not play Player Personnel -- he just throws around money to toys his coaches want.



He costs you a roster spot on D.



Ratliff is as good as Tank Johnson in the type of role Tank played in Chi.

Tank is not a big body by any NT standard.



Sometimes, you gotta stand still to let the storm pass.



Just throwing a body at it instead of paying up for a potentially smart solution.



I liked TO at the time but would have let him go to keep BP. Still would.

I liked Leonard Davis but would have preferred Hutch in 2006 and saved ourselves that horrid Kosier signing.

I like Hamlin as a player but he is a SS and we already have Davis and Watkins and Elam (who was cut) plus "The Player" who can't play any DB role. All are SS types.

BTW, Hamlin too was a Jerrah Jones cheap it out move. Cheap in the sense that he values his draft picks way too much. Jeez, heaven forbid you give up some draft picks to get real FS or NT value from another team. How about a second for Kris Jenkins or Gabe Watson.

No, can't do that. Jerrah loves him his draft picks. He gets to say "I did it" if he ever wins another SB.

Like the Switzer move. Completely stupid but he did it to prove a point. Sad fact is that point proved just how valuable a real GM (Johnson) was to building the team b/c it was all down hill talent and "fit" wise from 1994.

We are going down hill as we speak right now. Just takes time for the results to come in.
This is absolutely ridiculous. The point is that Johnson is not replacing Ratliff, but the Cowboys are rather trying to upgrade the position and bring in some fresh legs midway through the season. NT is a position that NEEDS depth. Right now, depth is seriously lacking. By signing Johnson, you give Ratliff a period to settle in and prove himself as a starter, and then you bring in a fresh guy to spell Ratliff as his legs get more tired. Remember, Ratliff has never started for a full season, and has played minimal amounts of nose tackle. Tank gives us a guy who can provide insurance in case Jay starts to wear out.

If the coaching staff didn't think Jay could do it, they would have gone out and gotten someone to play the nose tackle position immediately, not signed someone who won't be able to play until Week 9. Personally, when it comes down to it, I'd rather have Tank Johnson than Remi Ayodele (who is the guy who probably gets cut once Johnson gets off the suspended list).
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Old 09-19-2007, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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I would like to take this space to extol the virtue of the ignore list.

Thank you.
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From what? His leg?
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
"We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

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Old 09-19-2007, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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well guess you cant make everyone happy...I guess you would like us better like the redskins that get 2 draft picks per year and trade the rest away, one first day, one second day and call it a draft...heaven forbid an owner wanting to build through the draft then FA, ya I cant believe Jerry and his antics
If we went off and gave the Arizona Cardinals a 2nd for Watson -- I would be much happier.

I just think Tank Johnson is a Ratliff clone and I DEFINATELY don't think that is what is needed.

But hey, if throwing a body at the problem is what we want. Sure why not. Throw a body at it and call it a day.
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:08 PM    (permalink
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I would like to take this space to extol the virtue of the ignore list.

Thank you.
Whatever, just because I don't parrot popular opinions.

Just because I say better to give away something and get something of value then try to get a FA freebie?

Whatever. Most of you are simply apologists. There is simply nothing Jerrah does that is not fine and the thinking usually starts with "maybe" and "you never know" or "He is a beast."

I just have a hard time understanding how Tank Johnson suddenly becomes a NT or for that matter why folks are so rah rah on this.

It is like saying you need a Closer in baseball then go sign a starter and say "He can do it!" Yeah, maybe, a beast as a starter but ..... big but.

But I am an independent thinker and don't drink kool aid. It explains the ferocity of the rah rah club.

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Old 09-19-2007, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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You rub people the wrong way. That's the gist of it. You're very combative, and your posts tend to be very annoying. A man can only see "AHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA" typed out so many times before he stops reading your posts entirely.
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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Rob, your stance on Tank is based off a lot of assumptions. You are entitled to them, but you can't try to convince us on them.

You say he takes up a roster spot. You know who should be worried? Remi Ayodele.

Does anyone know if Tank takes up a roster spot now or when he ends his suspension?

Is Ratliff as good as Johnson as you claim? It's an assumption, but you may be right. But nobody is saying that Johnson is unseating Ratliff without having to battle for the starting spot.

You say Tank isn't a NT by NFL standards. His height isn't a problem, so you must be worried about his weight. Do you know his current weight? He's been out of football for a long time now without training camp. Guys like him don't usually lose weight while they sit watching TV at home. Another factor that you don't consider is that perhaps he can get to a weight that Phillips wants him at. He has 6-8 weeks to get there. I agree that he's not a prototype NT. But I disagree that size makes the player. I honestly would prefer Tank over Gabe Watson. What exactly has Gabe proven in this league? And you want to give up a second rounder for him? That's nuts! Tank is more proven. His Bears teammates can attest to his value. Despite his personal problems, his Bears teammates supported him and miss him to this day.

You're also assuming that by this signing that all of our offseaon plans on addressing the NT situation are gone... no more. I don't know where you get that.

You're also assuming that the Panthers would be willing to give up Jenkins for a second. I haven't heard much about Jenkins being on the market. On the other hand, we don't know if Jerry approached him either. He could have, and he could have been rejected. If you knew all of the ongoing behind the scenes that would be one thing, but you're points are all based off assumption.

We were never in the Hutch hunt and the money he got for a Guard is atrocious. If anything, I would've preferred Mark Wahle over Marco Rivera.

You also claim we're apologists for Jerry. That's not true. He's a work in progress. He's made plenty of bad moves. So has Parcells. I know you like Parcells and I do as well, but he's not without fault. Parcells couldn't build an OL in this era. ...and I still get upset thinking about passing on Steven Jackson for Julius Jones and Marcus Spears. gah. Parcells made up for it, which brings me back to appreciation. That's something you need to realize as well. As much as Jerry has done bad in the past, he has also done some good.

Jury is still out on Tank. Money is cheap, contract can be terminated at any time. I don't see what we have to lose.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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Whatever, just because I don't parrot popular opinions.

Just because I say better to give away something and get something of value then try to get a FA freebie?

Whatever. Most of you are simply apologists. There is simply nothing Jerrah does that is not fine and the thinking usually starts with "maybe" and "you never know" or "He is a beast."

I just have a hard time understanding how Tank Johnson suddenly becomes a NT or for that matter why folks are so rah rah on this.

It is like saying you need a Closer in baseball then go sign a starter and say "He can do it!" Yeah, maybe, a beast as a starter but ..... big but.

But I am an independent thinker and don't drink kool aid. It explains the ferocity of the rah rah club.


i honestly cant find many or one person here that is excited about the signing of tank johnson to the extent that we think its going to put us over the top and into the superbowl, or that he's a perfect fit...you want to give up a 2nd rd pick for gabe watson who has done what thus far? and a 2nd rd pick at that???


i find it hard to believe how you think that would be better then signing a proven player with ability, for less then a rookie contract, with no long term ties to him...He doesnt even have to play NT the entire year, he can come in on nickel and dime to a position that is alot like what he did in chicago...your so quick to bash moves and Jerry before you see anything played out or what the outcome would be, no one here is giddy with joy saying "yes jerry is awesome and so smart i love tank johnson"


its pretty much consesus we need the large body on the D line, bringing in a proven guy with alot of upside and potential left...unless you think it would of been smarter to bring in kris jenkins who has how many good years left? and i guess you would want to give up a high pick on him as well with no guarantees how that would work out with all those reports going around about him being out of shape and losing a step...its ok to have an opinion, but god forbid anyone in this forum look at a decision with some optimism and to you that screams homer or unrealistic
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Old 09-20-2007, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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Rob, your stance on Tank is based off a lot of assumptions. You are entitled to them, but you can't try to convince us on them.
Funny enough I do NOT want to convince you I am right, I want you to convince me I am wrong.

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Is Ratliff as good as Johnson as you claim? It's an assumption, but you may be right. But nobody is saying that Johnson is unseating Ratliff without having to battle for the starting spot.
To be precise, I saying Ratliff is similar to Tank and I just don't see the value of two of them.

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You say Tank isn't a NT by NFL standards. His height isn't a problem, so you must be worried about his weight. Do you know his current weight? He's been out of football for a long time now without training camp.
Weight and experience. He does not have the experience either and he looks thin.

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Guys like him don't usually lose weight while they sit watching TV at home. Another factor that you don't consider is that perhaps he can get to a weight that Phillips wants him at. He has 6-8 weeks to get there. I agree that he's not a prototype NT. But I disagree that size makes the player. I honestly would prefer Tank over Gabe Watson. What exactly has Gabe proven in this league?
Yes to Gabe. Gabe can be a 3-4 NT and can be an excellent young player for years to come in a 3-4.

I think Gabe is two times as likely to be a successful 3-4 NT than Tank.... b/c Tank is thin, lighter, and much better 4-3 DT.

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And you want to give up a second rounder for him? That's nuts!
To be precise, I say that I would prefer we spend a 2nd rounder on a Gabe type solution then sign Tank for nothing.

That is I prefer to spend NFL Currency on Gabe then get Tank for free.

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Tank is more proven. His Bears teammates can attest to his value. Despite his personal problems, his Bears teammates supported him and miss him to this day.
I am sure he is a great guy.

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You're also assuming that by this signing that all of our offseaon plans on addressing the NT situation are gone... no more. I don't know where you get that.
I did not say that nor did I assume it per se. So not sure where you are going with that. You are putting words in my mouth.

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You're also assuming that the Panthers would be willing to give up Jenkins for a second. I haven't heard much about Jenkins being on the market.
To be precise, I say that I would prefer we spend a 2nd rounder on a Jenkins type solution then sign Tank for nothing.

That is I prefer to spend NFL Currency on Jenkins then get Tank for free.

Plus there where rumors in TC that Jenkins was on the block.

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On the other hand, we don't know if Jerry approached him either. He could have, and he could have been rejected. If you knew all of the ongoing behind the scenes that would be one thing, but you're points are all based off assumption.
I assume that if you are willing to PAY UP some team will let go of a young unproven but promising NT.

That is all I assume. You got NFL CUrrency and you can do something.

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We were never in the Hutch hunt and the money he got for a Guard is atrocious. If anything, I would've preferred Mark Wahle over Marco Rivera.
No sure what Hutch and Marco have to do with each other. Hutch was a 2005 FA. Marco and Wahle 2004 FA.

All I said was Jerrah did not spend on Hutch in 2005. Spent on TO, Vanderjerk and Kosier. I would have rather spent on Hutch and some other guys.

The ramification of this move by Jerrah was we paid up for Bigg one year later.

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You also claim we're apologists for Jerry. That's not true. He's a work in progress.
I think after 15 years on-the-job I would hardly call Jerrah a work in progress.

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He's made plenty of bad moves. So has Parcells. I know you like Parcells and I do as well, but he's not without fault.
This is not a BP discussion but fact is I understood what Parcells was doing when he went for certain pieces of the puzzle. Carpenter while not what I wanted (Lawson) made sense if you keep DWare at WOLB. I felt Ware to SOLB and Lawson to WOLB.

Fasano made sense even though I felt we did not really need another starting caliber TE. Just a waste in my book because the kid would not get the chance to play (liek Burnett).

Jerrah's moves make no sense to me. The only one I got was Bigg. That is it.

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Parcells couldn't build an OL in this era. ...and I still get upset thinking about passing on Steven Jackson for Julius Jones and Marcus Spears. gah.
Parcells goes down for Spears. He ran the 2005 draft.

Jerrah does down for 2003 and 2004. So throw him and Dopey Scout guy from the 1990s under the bus for Julius.

On the OL, I disagree. I just think Peterman and Jacobs where busts and it forced us to find value elsewhere.

Colombo comes to mind. A few of the young back-up guys have been brought in under BP's time here to.

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Parcells made up for it, which brings me back to appreciation. That's something you need to realize as well. As much as Jerry has done bad in the past, he has also done some good.
I just don't get any of Jerrah plays other than the occasional trade down manuever in the draft.

I have said that putting together a team is like a puzzle. Any old piece will not do even if it looks right. It has to fit.

I think our current D is a prime example of this. 7 first rounders and 3 high priced FA and yet .......... still sucks.

No one philosophy that is consistent over time guiding the building of th team.

It is just us taking advantage of one opportunity after another. Each looks OK but cumulatively looks dumb.

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Jury is still out on Tank. Money is cheap, contract can be terminated at any time. I don't see what we have to lose.
Well, in that sense sure. I root for this team every weekend (een with Daryl Clack TB)but frankly I don't get what they are doing in a pure anaytical sense.

I wish Tank the best. I just don't see a reason to hope for it.
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Old 09-20-2007, 12:09 AM    (permalink
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You rub people the wrong way. That's the gist of it. You're very combative, and your posts tend to be very annoying. A man can only see "AHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA" typed out so many times before he stops reading your posts entirely.
And where have I typed anything similar to "AHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA" in this thread?

You don't have to read anything. In fact, please ignore.

But frankly, and objectively, my posts are pretty insightful if you get past the fact you don't (at first sight) agree.

I also do lots of predicting and forecasting which requires a little more than ......

Unfortunately, we humans tend to shut off when dealing with those we don't agree on.

Also, individuals today have difficulty dealing with Inductive Reasoning -- which I use frequently -- in making these MADDEN "predictions" or requests on personnel changes.

Anyway, have a good one.
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Old 09-20-2007, 12:11 AM    (permalink
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i honestly cant find many or one person here that is excited about the signing of tank johnson to the extent that we think its going to put us over the top and into the superbowl, or that he's a perfect fit...you want to give up a 2nd rd pick for gabe watson who has done what thus far? and a 2nd rd pick at that???


i find it hard to believe how you think that would be better then signing a proven player with ability, for less then a rookie contract, with no long term ties to him...He doesnt even have to play NT the entire year, he can come in on nickel and dime to a position that is alot like what he did in chicago...your so quick to bash moves and Jerry before you see anything played out or what the outcome would be, no one here is giddy with joy saying "yes jerry is awesome and so smart i love tank johnson"


its pretty much consesus we need the large body on the D line, bringing in a proven guy with alot of upside and potential left...unless you think it would of been smarter to bring in kris jenkins who has how many good years left? and i guess you would want to give up a high pick on him as well with no guarantees how that would work out with all those reports going around about him being out of shape and losing a step...its ok to have an opinion, but god forbid anyone in this forum look at a decision with some optimism and to you that screams homer or unrealistic
Again, some times you need to stand still to let the storm pass.

Never mistake activity for progress.

Tank, to me, is activity.
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Old 09-20-2007, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQORScgkC64

Too funny. Really funny. Great take on TJ.

http://www.realcities.com/mld/dfw/sp...y/17429645.htm

Even more funny. Just further proves what I am saying about Jerrah. Take a close look at Jerr Ireland's comments and the stuff about how BP always stayed away from talented but nutty players.

Jerrah just does not get it and he really has no respect for his own football staff's thoughts. Jerrah one man show.

The above link is to an article from JUNE!!!!!!! Like Jerrah forgot everything from the BP days.

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Old 09-20-2007, 12:55 AM    (permalink
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You say he takes up a roster spot. You know who should be worried? Remi Ayodele.

Does anyone know if Tank takes up a roster spot now or when he ends his suspension?
Tank takes up a roster spot today...and will be put on the suspended list tomorrow. So Jones if he cleared Waivers will likely be brought back on the team tomorrow. It's 8 weeks from now that someone will lose a roster spot. Like you said Remi is the body to be worried.
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Old 09-20-2007, 12:58 AM    (permalink
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If Jones passes waivers today he will be brought back tomorrow. Not sure how that is taking away a roster spot....it's one day.
Thule if you can only have a 53 man roster and NOW you give a spot to Tank -- someone else needs to go. Pick one.

Someone needs to lose a spot. Remi? Who is it?
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Old 09-20-2007, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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Thule if you can only have a 53 man roster and NOW you give a spot to Tank -- someone else needs to go. Pick one.

Someone needs to lose a spot. Remi? Who is it?
Well it was Nate Jones...but when he comes off the suspended list I'd assume it would be Remi Ayodele.
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Old 09-20-2007, 02:08 AM    (permalink
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Some great stuff from the Wade pressconference.

Nate Jones?
Jones cleared waivers. We’ll see about resigning. We’ll have a dime back (on Sunday), I don’t have an answer right now. There is a probability we’ll resign him.

Impressions of Tank, did you talk to him?
Yes, he said all the right things. There’s two kinds of guys. One that wants to get back to football and change his life, and the other that doesn’t care. He seems to be the former, he wants to get back to football. We did an extensive check on him in terms of how he is in the locker room and with coaches. That was all positive.

How much of a change will the 3-4 NT be for him?
He played NT for them. They play a shade nose in an offset 4-3, same technique we play. Not much transition at all, knowing the assignment and calls will be different. He’s played the same technique that Ferguson played.
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Old 09-20-2007, 02:18 AM    (permalink
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Funny enough I do NOT want to convince you I am right, I want you to convince me I am wrong.
I will keep that in mind. Mind you, I don't always disagree with you. That said, I feel like when I say stuff to clarify my position, that you read right through it refusing to budge off your high horse. We'll see.


To be precise, I saying Ratliff is similar to Tank and I just don't see the value of two of them.
I think you can see value in it if you see the acquisition of Tank as bolstering depth. As much as a "sweet story" the Ayodele brothers are, Remi can't hold Tank's jock strap as far as pure talent is concerned. He's a cheap option with no risk. You should be able to see that. There is more upside than risk. ...now don't go off on thinking that I'm saying he's full of upside and the sky's the limit. I'm saying the pros outweigh the cons. Another thing is by the time Tank is available to play, Ratliff could be a worn out dog. That is the nastiest position in all of football. Tons of pounding and no glory. Cheap depth addition with possibly some upside. Does my answer make sense?



Weight and experience. He does not have the experience either and he looks thin.
NT is not a position that requires a whole lot of experience. It's not like you're exponentially better, the further along you are in your career. Besides, he's played as a 4-3 NT and it's not a shift that requires rocket science. Do you agree with that?

Weight could be an issue or it could not be. One thing is for sure, weight is probably the easiest thing for a player to control. Speed and height cannot be taught, but strength and weight are another story. Parcells used to have target weights for his players. So I put it on Wade to mold Tank into the best player he can be for this system and balance that between keeping Tank effective. Tank is young and still very moldable.

And while it's fair to worry about weight and strength, I think 2 more important qualities for a NT... a "nasty attitude" and a "high motor". Those are two things that I think Tank possesses.

Power is also important, but nobody can say Tank is weak.


Side note: Jason Ferguson is nearly the same size as Tank.

Does that make enough sense to help you understand that your worry about weight and experience are not very significant right now?

If down the line, Tank is just flat out ineffective in this scheme, still there is not a lot that we're losing, resource wise (money, draft picks, etc). Outside of a fantasmic trade scenario, this is one of the best options out there.


Yes to Gabe. Gabe can be a 3-4 NT and can be an excellent young player for years to come in a 3-4.

I think Gabe is two times as likely to be a successful 3-4 NT than Tank.... b/c Tank is thin, lighter, and much better 4-3 DT.

I disagree with Gabe. He proved at Michigan that he lacked a motor and despite turning it up at the senior bowl in front of scouts and NFL Management, he still ended up as a 4th round pick. Since then he hasn't done anything significant. In fact, Arizona decided to spend a high second round pick to replace him. Not sure if that's convincing enough for you, but it is for me.

If all you're looking for is a fatso, then I have to disagree with your ideal NT solution. I also don't think it's fair to compare Tank to a draft pick since we didn't give one up to get him.


To be precise, I say that I would prefer we spend a 2nd rounder on a Gabe type solution then sign Tank for nothing.

Actually, I couldn't find where you said you preferred to spend a 2nd rounder on a Gabe "type".


That is I prefer to spend NFL Currency on Gabe then get Tank for free.

Hey! Me too! :D Except here's where we differ... I want Tank for cheap AND I want to address it if there is a great NT prospect in the draft. If there is a 1st or 2nd round worthy NT in the draft, then I'm all for it. You should remember that after Tank Tyler weighed in at 323 pounds at the combine, I wanted to use our first rounder on him! ;) We didn't address NT in the draft and this signing doesn't sway from that desire to address the position with a more dominant presence.




To be precise, I say that I would prefer we spend a 2nd rounder on a Jenkins type solution then sign Tank for nothing.

That is I prefer to spend NFL Currency on Jenkins then get Tank for free.

Plus there where rumors in TC that Jenkins was on the block.

If Jenkins truly was on the block, why didn't he get traded? There are many teams in the league in need of a guy like Jenkins. I honestly do not believe that the Panthers were willing to let him go. If they were, the cost must have been too high. I'd be interested to know what offers they got (if they got) and if Jerry did actually offer something or not. Some things we'll never know. It's really not worth it to mope around because of so called "rumors".




I assume that if you are willing to PAY UP some team will let go of a young unproven but promising NT.

That is all I assume. You got NFL CUrrency and you can do something.

I would agree that we should be willing to "pay up". But I don't want to "overpay" at the same time either. Remember Jenkins hasn't been healthy for a long time.


No sure what Hutch and Marco have to do with each other. Hutch was a 2005 FA. Marco and Wahle 2004 FA.

I was just saying, we had our chance to address OG in '04. If we did that, then we wouldn't have to discuss Hutch.

All I said was Jerrah did not spend on Hutch in 2005. Spent on TO, Vanderjerk and Kosier. I would have rather spent on Hutch and some other guys.

I'll just agree to disagree. TO has a bigger impact on us winning than Hutch has had on helping his team to win.

Vanderjerk and Kosier are not great signings, imo. Kosier is another Parcells decision. Don't blame Jerry. He had already handed over the keys. Kosier ain't bad, he's just another guy.


The ramification of this move by Jerrah was we paid up for Bigg one year later.



I think after 15 years on-the-job I would hardly call Jerrah a work in progress.
True. I also think he's light years better than he was. But heck, 3 SB rings later, you can't really call him a failure. No matter how much you want to credit Jimmy, Jerry was also apart of the equation.


This is not a BP discussion but fact is I understood what Parcells was doing when he went for certain pieces of the puzzle. Carpenter while not what I wanted (Lawson) made sense if you keep DWare at WOLB. I felt Ware to SOLB and Lawson to WOLB.

Fasano made sense even though I felt we did not really need another starting caliber TE. Just a waste in my book because the kid would not get the chance to play (liek Burnett).

I agree, BP was predictable to a degree. I don't know if it's fair yet to judge this year's picks and FA acquisitions. I can see a trend with the type of players WP is willing to bring aboard. Hamlin, Spencer, Deon Anderson, Tank... They all have a Semi-psycho Edge.

Jerrah's moves make no sense to me. The only one I got was Bigg. That is it.



Parcells goes down for Spears. He ran the 2005 draft.

Jerrah does down for 2003 and 2004. So throw him and Dopey Scout guy from the 1990s under the bus for Julius.
JJ was BP pick. Everyone praised BP in JJ's rookie year. They did not praise Jerry.

On the OL, I disagree. I just think Peterman and Jacobs where busts and it forced us to find value elsewhere.
You may disagree, but I won't deny that BP had a tough time fixing the OL in his tenure here... no matter how much I respect the guy. Just being honest in my evaluation of him. Ryan Young, Al Johnson, Jacob Rogers, Stephen Peterman, Rob Petitti, Marco Rivera, Pat McQuistan, EJ Whitley, Kyle Kosier... heck, he gave it a shot... Just missed every time except once... Columbo.


Colombo comes to mind. A few of the young back-up guys have been brought in under BP's time here to.



I just don't get any of Jerrah plays other than the occasional trade down manuever in the draft.
Those are fun, huh.

I have said that putting together a team is like a puzzle. Any old piece will not do even if it looks right. It has to fit.
I completely agree.

I think our current D is a prime example of this. 7 first rounders and 3 high priced FA and yet .......... still sucks.
Well, we are running a different type of 3-4 and those are mostly BP's players. I expect some heavy adjusting while the guys get the hang of Phillip's 3-4. I expected an adjustment year, it's why I don't think we'll get to the SB even though we have talent to get far.

No one philosophy that is consistent over time guiding the building of th team.
Not really Jerry's fault. He wanted Bill back.

It is just us taking advantage of one opportunity after another. Each looks OK but cumulatively looks dumb.
I wouldn't say our team looks dumb at 2-0. We'll see how things go. They could get dumb, but I'm hopeful (if that's a crime, I'm guilty).


Well, in that sense sure. I root for this team every weekend (een with Daryl Clack TB)but frankly I don't get what they are doing in a pure anaytical sense.

I wish Tank the best. I just don't see a reason to hope for it.
Response in bold. I spent time respectfully commenting back to you. Hopefully you see where I'm coming from and maybe there doesn't have to be such a divide going on over here.

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Old 09-20-2007, 07:10 AM    (permalink
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From WP press conference:

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How much of a change will the 3-4 NT be for him [Tank]?

He played NT for them. They play a shade nose in an offset 4-3, same technique we play. Not much transition at all, knowing the assignment and calls will be different. Hes played the same technique that Ferguson played.
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Old 09-20-2007, 08:33 AM    (permalink
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Response in bold. I spent time respectfully commenting back to you. Hopefully you see where I'm coming from and maybe there doesn't have to be such a divide going on over here.
I hear ya. I just don't agree with about half of your points.

The biggest one is the D is in transition b/c Parcells left..... let me say for the record Jerrah did not go out and find a true BP 3-4 guy. Did not even interview one of them.

This is one of the reason I mentioned that Jerrah wants to go back to a 4-3 sooner rather than later. WP's D basically is a 4-3 with one OLB always blitzing. It is not even close to a 3-4 as I see a 3-4 operating.

So in that sense, Tank maybe be a great DT for the Cowboys super top secret 4-3.

Either way will root for Tank as soon as the star is on his head.

OT: there is no way BP ran the 04 draft. Mark it down but BP likes big backs and DOES NOT LIKE TO TRADE around picks. He views it as a distraction from getting what you need. Let BBD confirm but I have more than once heard him say he did not see the logic to all the movement.

OTII: How does Julius getting praise from the media in year 1 have anything to do with Parcells being his draft day advocate. I don't get how one thought links to the other one.

OTIII: To me, the best NT in football are very large men. To me the best DT in football are somewhat large and very quick. Tank is somewhat large and very quick. But no, I am not a Ted Washington guy nor have I called for Jimmy Kennedy either. Jimmy was a 6"4 340 lb man who did not want to play two gap and would shoot the wrong gaps to make "ESPN hits" .... so why bother with him either. Large is not a reason for pursuit, but it is a common characteristic for great NT.

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Old 09-20-2007, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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I personally like the Tank Johnson move considering you guys really have nothing to lose out of it.


But is it just me, or did Wade look less than enthusiastic when discussing the signing? He seemed like he didn't want it. Thats just the impression I got out of his conference.
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Old 09-20-2007, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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No, that's just Wade. Just when you think he has no personality, he shows you that he has even less.
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Old 09-20-2007, 12:41 PM    (permalink
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I hear ya. I just don't agree with about half of your points.

The biggest one is the D is in transition b/c Parcells left..... let me say for the record Jerrah did not go out and find a true BP 3-4 guy. Did not even interview one of them.

This is one of the reason I mentioned that Jerrah wants to go back to a 4-3 sooner rather than later. WP's D basically is a 4-3 with one OLB always blitzing. It is not even close to a 3-4 as I see a 3-4 operating.

So in that sense, Tank maybe be a great DT for the Cowboys super top secret 4-3.

Either way will root for Tank as soon as the star is on his head.

OT: there is no way BP ran the 04 draft. Mark it down but BP likes big backs and DOES NOT LIKE TO TRADE around picks. He views it as a distraction from getting what you need. Let BBD confirm but I have more than once heard him say he did not see the logic to all the movement.

OTII: How does Julius getting praise from the media in year 1 have anything to do with Parcells being his draft day advocate. I don't get how one thought links to the other one.

OTIII: To me, the best NT in football are very large men. To me the best DT in football are somewhat large and very quick. Tank is somewhat large and very quick. But no, I am not a Ted Washington guy nor have I called for Jimmy Kennedy either. Jimmy was a 6"4 340 lb man who did not want to play two gap and would shoot the wrong gaps to make "ESPN hits" .... so why bother with him either. Large is not a reason for pursuit, but it is a common characteristic for great NT.
You see, when you say you don't agree to half my points and then aren't more specific, then it leaves me wondering what didn't you get?

I know you started changing the subject on BP, but I want to know your take on my responses to Tank, since this is a thread on him.

Just to be brief to your responses on Bill...

- Bill wanted Jason Ferguson, locked him in a room and didn't let him leave w/out signing. That was not a Jerry signing. That was the beginning of letting Bill transform the D into his beloved 3-4.

- If Jerry wanted to move back to the 4-3, he wouldn't have hired Phillips. I completely disagree with you that he wants to move back to the 4-3 sooner rather than later.

-OT: Julius Jones was a BP selection through and through. I really don't understand how you think Bill's hands are completely washed clean of anything before '05. He started molding this team from the beginning. It started off a slow process, but Bill had a lot more say than you try to lead on. If Bill liked big backs as you claim, then we would've taken Jackson. Your assumption on him is incorrect. Because if we wouldn't have traded out of that pick, the selection would've been Kevin Jones. Also, do the names David Meggett and Curtis Martin ring a bell? Both Parcells RBs. Julius was all BP. BP told JJ that if he had the chance that he would select him (when JJ came in for a private workout prior to the draft).

- OTII: Let me try to be clear. BP got praise for JJ's early success because it was his decision to draft him, and everyone in the media knew it. That's the connection.

- OTIII: I agree that large NTs are the way to go. But I'm not crying about the addition of Tank to bolster our depth. You seem to want to incline that by signing Tank that our needs are resolved. I think you're the only one with that impression.
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Old 09-20-2007, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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I personally like the Tank Johnson move considering you guys really have nothing to lose out of it.


But is it just me, or did Wade look less than enthusiastic when discussing the signing? He seemed like he didn't want it. Thats just the impression I got out of his conference.
Oooooh.... I wanna see how Robert handles that comment from you. He's too used to riding your jock. This is going to be interesting.
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Old 09-20-2007, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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For the record rob....Phillips defense isn't like a 4-3 it's a version of the 4-6. He has grown to like 3 downlineman more because the offensive line doesn't have an idea who the rushers are on a certain play. Much harder to drop a guy into coverage when he starts with his hand on the ground.
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