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Old 09-21-2007, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ward View Post
Byron Leftwich has outperformed the kid over the past two years statistically, and his team has done better things with a less talented offense (IMO). And he lost his job.
Would you change your opinion if that statement wasn't true?

I mean, I'm not sticking up for Eli, cause I don't like him one bit, but that statement made me question the truthfulness of it. So out of curiosity, I had to look it up.

Leftwich
2005 11 Games Played 2123 Yards 15 TD 5 INT
2006 6 Games Played 1159 Yards 7 TD 5 INT

Manning
2005 16 Games Played 3762 Yards 24 TD 17 INT
2006 16 Games Played 3244 Yards 24 TD 18 INT

While Eli certainly threw more INTs, I don't know that I could call his play worse than Leftwich. I mean Leftwich only played 6 games last year. Outperformed is not a word I'd use. That comparison is not so good.
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Old 09-21-2007, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Would you change your opinion if that statement wasn't true?

I mean, I'm not sticking up for Eli, cause I don't like him one bit, but that statement made me question the truthfulness of it. So out of curiosity, I had to look it up.

Leftwich
2005 11 Games Played 2123 Yards 15 TD 5 INT
2006 6 Games Played 1159 Yards 7 TD 5 INT

Manning
2005 16 Games Played 3762 Yards 24 TD 17 INT
2006 16 Games Played 3244 Yards 24 TD 18 INT

While Eli certainly threw more INTs, I don't know that I could call his play worse than Leftwich. I mean Leftwich only played 6 games last year. Outperformed is not a word I'd use. That comparison is not so good.
So we're counting injury against Leftwich? Because Leftwich had a better QB rating both of those years, and even you posting the stats doesn't prove I'm wrong, it proves Leftwich is better in any given game vs Eli Manning.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Don't you think its a little early to rub the annoiting oil on Campbell? :|


He looked putrid against the Dolphins, and was inconsistent against the Eagles. Im not gonna take part in these rankings, its far too early to do that.

I'll say this. I think this division has a great cast of qbs. Campbell may one day develop into a great player, but he's far from it right now. Having that said, Id take the other 3 guys on my team anyday, with Campbell having potential to one day be "the guy". McNabb, Eli and Romo are all the real deal to me.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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I have to ask the fans of Clinton Portis: What has this guy shown you post-Denver to make you believe he is an elite, or even great back? He's not even the most physically gifted back.
Well, I'm not a fan of Portis, but I did put him #1 in my rankings, so I'll explain some. In response to what he has done since Denver...

He was a few yards shy of 1500 combined yards in his first season with WAS with 7 TDs, 5 rushing and 2 receiving. In his second season he had over 1700 combined yards and 11 TDs. The last two years he's battled injuries, so naturally, public opinion is down on him. When healthy, he is a top RB. He appears healthy this season, so he topped my rankings. He can run, catch, block, run with power and here's how he separates himself from Barber... Portis can take it to the house and break a long one.

Westbrook gets his yardage stats, but he is overused. He would actually be better off in a RB by Committee approach. In the same period that Portis had those 5 and 11 TD seasons, Westbrook only had 3 rushing TDs in each season. He's dynamic, but he's forced to be because he's not a thumper. I just think of it as a nice way to put it that he lacks a power game.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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So we're counting injury against Leftwich? Because Leftwich had a better QB rating both of those years, and even you posting the stats doesn't prove I'm wrong, it proves Leftwich is better in any given game vs Eli Manning.
I think you are interpreting the stats wrong. It proved that an injury prone Leftwich just threw the ball much left. His rating was higher, but not by much, but to say he would beat Manning in any given name is particular baloney.

Leftwich has been limping too much to be effective for his team.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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So we're counting injury against Leftwich? Because Leftwich had a better QB rating both of those years, and even you posting the stats doesn't prove I'm wrong, it proves Leftwich is better in any given game vs Eli Manning.
QB rating is a poor indicator. Colt Brennan had the best QB rating last year in the history of college football. He's not the best QB ever to play college ball.

Romo's rating last year had exceeded Peyton at times... He was never better than Peyton as a QB.

Also, yes, I do believe that injury has to play a factor if you're going to compare the two since you said he "outperformed" him.

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Old 09-21-2007, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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Don't you think its a little early to rub the annoiting oil on Campbell? :|


He looked putrid against the Dolphins, and was inconsistent against the Eagles. Im not gonna take part in these rankings, its far too early to do that.

I'll say this. I think this division has a great cast of qbs. Campbell may one day develop into a great player, but he's far from it right now. Having that said, Id take the other 3 guys on my team anyday, with Campbell having potential to one day be "the guy". McNabb, Eli and Romo are all the real deal to me.
I put Campbell fourth in my rankings and called him a bus driver. So no annointing in my rankings yet. I think this is a fun way to guage progress throughout the year. See how they change from beginning to end.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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Byron Leftwich is Drew Bledsoe part 2. His pocket presence is horrible. He's worse than Bledsoe in a sense that his release takes 2 years. And he puts no touch on his passes.

If he was a great qb, he wouldve gotten picked up in a heartbeat. The only team to show interest in him were the desperate Falcons. That means theres 31 teams in the NFL that felt better about their qb than Leftwich. That in itself says alot.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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One thing I hate is when people say Clinton hasn't done anything since coming to D.C., that obviously proves you don't know what you are talking about.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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I think Washington has the best LB core in the East.

Washington
Fletcher
McIntosh


Thats beastly.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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One thing I hate is when people say Clinton hasn't done anything since coming to D.C., that obviously proves you don't know what you are talking about.
I never said he did nothing, I asked what has he done to make people believe he is elite.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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Byron Leftwich is Drew Bledsoe part 2. His pocket presence is horrible. He's worse than Bledsoe in a sense that his release takes 2 years. And he puts no touch on his passes.

If he was a great qb, he wouldve gotten picked up in a heartbeat. The only team to show interest in him were the desperate Falcons. That means theres 31 teams in the NFL that felt better about their qb than Leftwich. That in itself says alot.
Leftwich really is a poor QB. I don't know what's good about him. My money is on him being a flop in ATL.

I think Eli would've been picked up pretty fast if he was cut. ...eventhough he is a cry baby.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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I never said he did nothing, I asked what has he done to make people believe he is elite.
But what has Marion Barber, Brandon Jacobs, Julius Jones done, nothing, not sure anyone said he was elite but best RB in the division isn't out of the question. Also Brian Westbrook has only had 1 season that you would call great although he did share time in all of his other years and while dynamic he still is yet to prove he can be consistent in a 16 game season, and he can't get those tough yards.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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QB rating is a poor indicator. Colt Brennan had the best QB rating last year in the history of college football. He's not the best QB ever to play college ball.

Romo's rating last year had exceeded Peyton at times... He was never better than Peyton as a QB.

Also, yes, I do believe that injury has to play a factor if you're going to compare the two since you said he "outperformed" him.
It's not the best indicator, but it's one of the tools we have. Colt Brennan isn't the best QB ever in college, but he inarguably had one of the best seasons a QB has ever had in college. But that's neither here nor there because college QB ratings work differently.

If you're taking injury into account, then fine, that's your prerogative. But I'm not, and that's what leads me to the conclusions I've made. Give me Leftwich over Eli in any given game, and if they both had access to same weapons I am convinced Leftwich would do more. He has done more without talents like Tiki, Toomer, Burress, Shockey, and Jacobs.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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I don't get where all the Eli hate is coming from. I thought he's been playing very well considering the circumstances.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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I think Washington has the best LB core in the East.

Washington
Fletcher
McIntosh


Thats beastly.
That's a pretty strong starting line up, but their depth doesn't scare anyone.

Khary Campbell - Nobody
H.B. Blades - Young and unproven
Randall Godfrey - Old and slowing down

I think Dallas has them beat from top to bottom.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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But what has Marion Barber, Brandon Jacobs, Julius Jones done, nothing, not sure anyone said he was elite but best RB in the division isn't out of the question. Also Brian Westbrook has only had 1 season that you would call great although he did share time in all of his other years and while dynamic he still is yet to prove he can be consistent in a 16 game season, and he can't get those tough yards.
You don't think it's odd that the one season where Westbrook was "the guy" he shined? And I don't know how you can hold injury against Westbrook vs Portis, who's played one full season in his career.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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It's not the best indicator, but it's one of the tools we have. Colt Brennan isn't the best QB ever in college, but he inarguably had one of the best seasons a QB has ever had in college. But that's neither here nor there because college QB ratings work differently.

If you're taking injury into account, then fine, that's your prerogative. But I'm not, and that's what leads me to the conclusions I've made. Give me Leftwich over Eli in any given game, and if they both had access to same weapons I am convinced Leftwich would do more. He has done more without talents like Tiki, Toomer, Burress, Shockey, and Jacobs.
Why wouldn't you take injury into account? You said he outperformed Eli. How?

If you want to change you stance into now saying "he would do better".... well, now we're talking hypotheticals. ...and anyone can say anything without much clout.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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That's a pretty strong starting line up, but their depth doesn't scare anyone.

Khary Campbell - Nobody
H.B. Blades - Young and unproven
Randall Godfrey - Old and slowing down

I think Dallas has them beat from top to bottom.
Im not too big on Dallas's ILBs. Theyre good, very solid. But theres no stud in the middle of that core. Yes they have depth, but you naturally have more depth in the LB core when you run a 3-4.

I like James, I like Ayodele. Burnett needs to stay healthy. I have to admit, Carpenter isn't working out right now. There really isn't a markee guy there in the middle.

Fletcher is playing the way Pierce did for the Skins. He's still got some in the tank.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Why wouldn't you take injury into account? You said he outperformed Eli. How?

If you want to change you stance into now saying "he would do better".... well, now we're talking hypotheticals. ...and anyone can say anything without much clout.
He outperformed Manning while on the field, in addition to my hypothetical. If you don't like it that I add "while on the field" then quit loving on Clinton Portis.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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He outperformed Manning while on the field, in addition to my hypothetical. If you don't like it that I add "while on the field" then quit loving on Clinton Portis.
Well, I don't see the outperformance, but whatevers, I don't really care. Eli is just the lesser evil, imo.

If you had asked me to rank the RBs last year or the year before, Portis wouldn't have been at the top. He'd be near the bottom. My rankings are based on the present and they will as we go throughout the year. Right now Portis is healthy and is running hard. Westbrook hasn't even had a TD behind the best OL in the division. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt by ranking him above Barber.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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Im not too big on Dallas's ILBs. Theyre good, very solid. But theres no stud in the middle of that core. Yes they have depth, but you naturally have more depth in the LB core when you run a 3-4.

I like James, I like Ayodele. Burnett needs to stay healthy. I have to admit, Carpenter isn't working out right now. There really isn't a markee guy there in the middle.

Fletcher is playing the way Pierce did for the Skins. He's still got some in the tank.
Well whether or not they "naturally" have more depth because of the system... it's still better.

I'm in agreement that neither James or Ayodele are those elite MLB types.. like an Urlacher, Lewis, heck... they're not even a Bruschi. They are effective however, and they don't do much wrong per say. The playmaking is lacking, but they are steady and they play to their potential. Burnett is a guy that yes, needs to stay healthy, but his ceiling is higher than James and Ayodele. So is Carps. Playing time is tough right now, but between Burnett and Carp I think we could have a "marquee" guy there.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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Well, I don't see the outperformance, but whatevers, I don't really care. Eli is just the lesser evil, imo.

If you had asked me to rank the RBs last year or the year before, Portis wouldn't have been at the top. He'd be near the bottom. My rankings are based on the present and they will as we go throughout the year. Right now Portis is healthy and is running hard. Westbrook hasn't even had a TD behind the best OL in the division. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt by ranking him above Barber.
And the best QB in the division has only thrown 1 TD in that same offense, you think that indicates talent?
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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And the best QB in the division has only thrown 1 TD in that same offense, you think that indicates talent?
Best QB according to whom? I have Romo #1 hands down right now.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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Best QB according to whom? I have Romo #1 hands down right now.
We're like oil and water.
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