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Old 10-11-2007, 12:26 AM    (permalink
Turtlepower
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Originally Posted by SNIPER26 View Post
A) How do you give Portis the nod ahead of Westbrook saying he "can do everything pretty damn good"? Do you not know what Westbrook does?
B) And the fact that he hasn't proved he's anything more than a situational back (Barber) He's not as good a receiver as Westbrook or Portis.
I would give Portis the nod because of injury concerns. If they are both healthy, westbrook is a beast, but due to westbrook's injuries, his stock drops. =D
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I don't have to watch it to know it was not interesting.
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Old 10-11-2007, 12:28 AM    (permalink
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I would give Portis the nod because of injury concerns. If they are both healthy, westbrook is a beast, but due to westbrook's injuries, his stock drops. =D
But Portis has been injured too.
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Old 10-11-2007, 12:29 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SNIPER26 View Post
But Portis has been injured too.
But not this year so far... As of this year, it is Portis. As of the last century, Westbrook. If Portis goes down tomorrow, I give it to Westbrook. You see my lack of logic?
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Old 10-11-2007, 12:32 AM    (permalink
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But not this year so far... As of this year, it is Portis. As of the last century, Westbrook. If Portis goes down tomorrow, I give it to Westbrook. You see my lack of logic?
It's not so much a lack of logic as a testament to both players as to how good they are, IMO.
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Old 10-11-2007, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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A) How do you give Portis the nod ahead of Westbrook saying he "can do everything pretty damn good"? Do you not know what Westbrook does?
B) And the fact that he hasn't proved he's anything more than a situational back (Barber) He's not as good a receiver as Westbrook or Portis.
yes im aware of what westbrook does, but I dont think thats a knock putting portis over him...portis is a better blocker, a more tough runner, does it inside and outside, and is a pretty damn good receiver out of the backfield, of course there are things westy does better, but i think portis is more complete and if i had to take one back in my backfield i would rather have a healthy portis over a healthy westbrook, just my opinion though not as if it really means Portis is definately the better back


and Barber is just as good of a receiver as portis or westbrook, he's not as explosive as westbrook is or making people miss, but he catches pretty much everything, knows how to turn and get up field, and gets those tough yards after the catch...im not really one for the whole "he hasnt proved anything" argument, he gets his chances on the field and does everything you could ask a back to do, and does it really well...No he's not better then westbrook or portis yet, but I do think he's as good of a receiver as those 2, and he does things better then some of those 2 as well...
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Old 10-11-2007, 09:55 AM    (permalink
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yes im aware of what westbrook does, but I dont think thats a knock putting portis over him...portis is a better blocker, a more tough runner, does it inside and outside, and is a pretty damn good receiver out of the backfield, of course there are things westy does better, but i think portis is more complete and if i had to take one back in my backfield i would rather have a healthy portis over a healthy westbrook, just my opinion though not as if it really means Portis is definately the better back


and Barber is just as good of a receiver as portis or westbrook, he's not as explosive as westbrook is or making people miss, but he catches pretty much everything, knows how to turn and get up field, and gets those tough yards after the catch...im not really one for the whole "he hasnt proved anything" argument, he gets his chances on the field and does everything you could ask a back to do, and does it really well...No he's not better then westbrook or portis yet, but I do think he's as good of a receiver as those 2, and he does things better then some of those 2 as well...
Let me rephrase my receiver point. He hasn't done as much as Westbrook or Portis. While a very competent receiver, he doesn't possess the same type of open field elusiveness.
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Old 10-11-2007, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SNIPER26 View Post
Let me rephrase my receiver point. He hasn't done as much as Westbrook or Portis. While a very competent receiver, he doesn't possess the same type of open field elusiveness.
Neither does shockey or anquan boldin, but getting a physical runner in space really isn't much less effective, personally I'm a big fan of Marion the Barbarian
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Old 10-11-2007, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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QB's:
1 - McNabb (when healthy)
1b - Romo
3 - Manning
3b - Campbell

RB's:
1 - Westbrook
2 - Portis
3 - Barber
4 - Jacobs
5 - Jones
6 - Betts

TE's:
1 - Witten
2 - Cooley
3 - Shockey
4 - Smith

WR's:
1 - Owens
2 - Burress
3 - Glenn
4 - Moss
5 - Crayton
6 - Brown
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Old 10-11-2007, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MaddHatter View Post
QB's:
1 - McNabb (when healthy)
1b - Romo
3 - Manning
3b - Campbell

RB's:
1 - Westbrook
2 - Portis
3 - Barber
4 - Jacobs
5 - Jones
6 - Betts

TE's:
1 - Witten
2 - Cooley
3 - Shockey
4 - Smith

WR's:
1 - Owens
2 - Burress
3 - Glenn
4 - Moss
5 - Crayton
6 - Brown
Let me guess - your a Philly fan. Your WRs - Brown over Randel El?!?! Please.
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Old 10-11-2007, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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Let me guess - your a Philly fan. Your WRs - Brown over Randel El?!?! Please.
Dallas fan actually
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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Dallas fan actually
OK. Fair enough - my mistake. And further to your WR ranking - Crayton & Randel El are very close statistically on '07 so I wouldn't say Crayton is head & shoulders above Randel El. You can make a case for Crayton ranked over him but I can make a case for the reverse.
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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OK. Fair enough - my mistake. And further to your WR ranking - Crayton & Randel El are very close statistically on '07 so I wouldn't say Crayton is head & shoulders above Randel El. You can make a case for Crayton ranked over him but I can make a case for the reverse.
Quite honestly, I have only seen 3 Skins games, and none led me to believe that Randel El could dominate as a #2 in the NFL - though statistically you're right, they are pretty close
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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Quite honestly, I have only seen 3 Skins games, and none led me to believe that Randel El could dominate as a #2 in the NFL - though statistically you're right, they are pretty close
The Miami & Detroit games convinced me he is a good #2. I realize Detroit has a poor secondary but he caught 7 for 100yds in one half without the presence of Moss. Crayton's big game came against a poor St. Louis secondary and he had the benefit of having T.O. on the field. I'm not sure I'd call Crayton a dominant #2 either.

Honestly, if the Skins had a big bodied WR as a #2 Randel El would be very effective as a slot reciever. He is developing excellent chemistry with Campbell so he will probably be the #2 next year as well.
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Old 10-11-2007, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MaddHatter View Post
QB's:
1 - McNabb (when healthy)
1b - Romo
3 - Manning
3b - Campbell

RB's:
1 - Westbrook
2 - Portis
3 - Barber
4 - Jacobs
5 - Jones
6 - Betts

TE's:
1 - Witten
2 - Cooley
3 - Shockey
4 - Smith

WR's:
1 - Owens
2 - Burress
3 - Glenn
4 - Moss
5 - Crayton
6 - Brown
No way at this point in his career is Glenn better than Moss and Reggie Brown deserves to be on no list, he is absolute trash, his tools and talent are top 5 but on field production he is only the 4th-5th best wideout on his own team.
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Old 10-11-2007, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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No way at this point in his career is Glenn better than Moss and Reggie Brown deserves to be on no list, he is absolute trash, his tools and talent are top 5 but on field production he is only the 4th-5th best wideout on his own team.
Uh, yes to the first part, no on the second. Ghetto, you actually think Kevin Curtis, Jason Avant, Hank Baskett and Greg Lewis are better than Brown? I beg to differ.
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Old 10-11-2007, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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Uh, yes to the first part, no on the second. Ghetto, you actually think Kevin Curtis, Jason Avant, Hank Baskett and Greg Lewis are better than Brown? I beg to differ.
Are you watching the same Reggie Brown that I am??? I'm pretty sure he probably doesn't even have 5 catches this year and he starts every game. He showed flashes last year but this year he is flat out awful, gets no separation on routes and drops balls. Like I said talent and physical tools he's top 5, but on field production he is awful especially this year. No consistency.
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Old 10-11-2007, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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Are you watching the same Reggie Brown that I am??? I'm pretty sure he probably doesn't even have 5 catches this year and he starts every game. He showed flashes last year but this year he is flat out awful, gets no separation on routes and drops balls. Like I said talent and physical tools he's top 5, but on field production he is awful especially this year. No consistency.
No love for "Downtown" Reggie Brown? :( lol
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Old 10-13-2007, 12:30 AM    (permalink
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I'm late to the conversation, but here's my lists with a few thoughts:

QB:

1) McNabb: Not the best this year, but this early in the season you aren't justified in moving a young guy ahead of a perennially elite player.
2) Romo: Has started as well as any QB in NFL history.
4a) Manning: After a superb opening game, has fallen back to his inconsistent ways. Still waiting for him to play up to his ability on a game-to-game, play-to-play basis.
4b) Campbell: We haven't seen him challenged nearly enough to place him in a ranking like this. He kind of reminds me of Phillip Rivers last year, with the impressive start masking the fact that, well, he hasn't done anything. Like what I've seen so far, though.

RB

1) Westbrook: Bill Parcells says that he is the best player in the division. That's enough for me.
2) Portis: No brainer.....or is it? Portis hasn't done anything to deserve the kind of props he gets on NFLDC. In Denver, he looked like a younger, faster version of TD. In Washington, he looks like....an above average RB, and that's it.
3) Barber: see Barbarian, Marion the
4) Betts: Very underrated. His late season stretch last year showed what he could do given the chance. Is obviously a 100% better fit for the offense than Portis is, but politics are preventing him from getting the burn he's earned.
5) Jones: An impressive talent who hasn't gotten the opportunity to be the #1 guy like he should be. I'm in the minority, but I think that with a 20 att/g workload, the guy would break out.
6) Jacobs: Amazing power, questionable durability, and an unprecedented physique for the position. Haven't seen anything to put him higher, but that could change.

TE

1) Witten: Might just have been the best player at any position in the division through the first quarter of the year. An absolute beast of a player. Has blossomed as a blocker, becoming--no exaggeration here--dominant in that area of the game, and with the increased role in the passing game is starting to get the pub he has always deserved.
2) Shockey: I'll give him the slight edge over Cooley, even though I probably shouldn't. An amazing talent that just hasn't quite "clicked" yet.
3) Cooley: Excellent all-around player. A little on the small side to be considered a true TE, or be great as an in-line blocker, but helps to make up for that with his intelligence, grit, and ability to make contact in space.
4) Smith: What does it say when you are one of the top 10 or 12 players at your position in the league, and yet you are the worst in your division? Good player.

WR

TO: All-time great, still playing like he's in his prime.
Glen: I have him here for the same reason that I have McNabb where he is. This guy has perennially been one of the 5 most underrated players in the league, and is an amazing, amazing player in his own right. Should have had a career comparable to Harrison, Moss, TO and Bruce, but off-the-field problems prevented that from happening. Will likely move down by season's end.
Burress: Will likely move up to the 2 spot before long. An amazing start to the season, would benefit from a more consistent effort. I wonder how much the ankle problems have to do with his improved concentration and focus during games.
Moss: Great deep threat and YAC guy, but size limits him in a lot of ways.
Toomer: One of my favorite guys from the past. Has never gotten the recognition he has earned. Probably doesn't deserve to be here for this season, but I'm giving him props anyways.
Crayton: Really coming on in the absence of Glen. Not particularly big or fast, but gets the job done and comes through big in the clutch. Don't know if Washington fans remember, but this is the guy that caught the 45 yard TD pass in the 2nd to last game of 2004 that beat them with under 1:00 in the game.

This division is well above average at every one of the offensive skill positions. Our TEs are just drop-dead bad ass. The only other division in the league that compares with ours at that position is the AFC North. But even then, you could make the contention that the best TE in that division would be no better than 4th in ours (Heap and Winslow are both probably better than Cooley, but its certainly not a hands-down thing)
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Old 10-13-2007, 12:38 AM    (permalink
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Eh, im going to give the wr nod to burress over TO...call me crazy, but as of right now at this point, if Burress is focused I think he dominates a game more so then TO does right now, id trust Burress more in the redzone, and I think hes more sure handed and very underrated at running after the catch...Everyone pretty much knows he's going to be the main target in the redzone every week but he gets up and goes and gets the ball, I love that about him...And its pretty wierd this is the best Ive ever seen him play and he has a bad foot...
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Old 10-13-2007, 03:46 AM    (permalink
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At this point in their careers I think Burress is the superior receiver. Terrell Owens' hands are terrible right now; he led the NFL in drops last year and is the current leader now. Burress is by no means Mr. Consistency either, but he's finally living up to his natural play-making abilities.
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Old 10-13-2007, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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If it's ludicrous, then explain why. My grades are based off of actual play so far this year. Not career history, not potential... now.
Well for starters, Roy Williams is playing LB on most passing downs. Watkins and Hamlin are playing Safety.

Hard to call Roy a Safety anymore.
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Old 10-13-2007, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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Burress is better than TO.
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Old 10-15-2007, 07:45 AM    (permalink
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At this point in their careers I think Burress is the superior receiver. Terrell Owens' hands are terrible right now; he led the NFL in drops last year and is the current leader now. Burress is by no means Mr. Consistency either, but he's finally living up to his natural play-making abilities.
This year I have to attribute his inconsistency in the first halves of games to his ankle. The guy hasn't practiced in almost a month now and just toughs it out on gameday with his ankle. And the Giants are hush hush about how bad in ankle really is. High ankle sprain most likely, that has kept DJ Hackett out since week 1. DJ's is probably worse but Plax still plays through it every week. He needs the bye week more than anyone right now. I'd even consider leaving him in the states for the London game week 9 and give him three weeks to rest before the Cowboys game.
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Old 10-15-2007, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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I've got no gripe with to over plax, while plax has less drops and more big plays he also leaves more big plays on the field.

What irks me is that people have less respect for shockey when he's showing that he still makes a big impact on games even when they're not throwing it to him. He has taken his blocking to another level and is having a big impact as a decoy. I don't think is even close between shockey and cooley and I think shockey's just a smidgeon above witten but its too close to call.
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Old 10-15-2007, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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Have we done Longsnappers yet?
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