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Old 09-28-2007, 07:50 PM    (permalink
shane_man
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Default RFA Marion Barber

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ask Mick DallasCowboys.com
Tevin Venia, Potomac Falls, Va.: With all the talk of Tony Romo's extension and Julius Jones being in the last year of his contract, I'd like to know when does Marion Barber's contract expire? I've looked online and found two different answers: He's an unrestricted free agent in '08 and another that said he signed through the '09 season.

Mickey: Barber, being a fourth-round pick, is in the final year of what's a standard three-year deal for guys drafted in that round. That means he will become a restricted free agent in 2008. If the Cowboys decide not to extend his contract, they would likely protect their right of first refusal by qualifying him at either the second-round level or first-round level. The Cowboys qualified Patrick Crayton this past off-season at a second-round level for $1.3 million. If Barber keeps this up, they might have to raise the ante to a first, which would put him in the $2 million range on a one-year deal.
This question and subsequent answer brings up a very valid question for the Cowboys come this offseason(and one which I asked Mick for next weeks Micks shots...)... But now I ask the Cowboys fans here. If we get to the end of the season with Marion still on his rookie contract and we have to offer a tender. We obviously will be offering him a first level tender. I personally cant see that holding up. Not with his exceptional spot play and Drew Rosenhaus representing his interests. NO. I think we will be looking at a situation where Marion will be offered starting RB money which puts us in a pickle of a situation. As we have first right of refusal we will have the opportunity to match any offer made and thus keep him on the roster. The flipside is that we wont be able to run the offence we currently do. Marion WILL be our starting RB(No spell back... Nothing of the sort) We will have so much committed in Barber it would be nonsensical to have a Tyson Thompson/Julius Jones taking 10+ carries a game.

So then we are left with the situation of not matching the offer sheet and being offered a 1st round pick and a 3rd round pick(I assume. Thats what you get in Madden anyway) Which will leave us in the position of having three 1st round picks this year... 2 of which will probably be in the top ten overall at this pace.(Cleveland suck. And any team willing to gamble a 1st and a 3rd on Barber must be in bad shape)...

Sure that sounds good on the surface but given that we have just watched this years rookie class signed to deals which somehow exceed the highest contracts already signed in there position in the League. It will cost Dallas a mint just to get the rookies under contract. We spent ten years getting out of cap hell only for Marion Barber to put us back in cap hell...

The only solution is really to sign Marion to an extension now and get these questions out of the way now. But if we dont... Is there a preferrable route we should go down of the two solutions offered above?
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Old 09-28-2007, 08:01 PM    (permalink
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This question and subsequent answer brings up a very valid question for the Cowboys come this offseason(and one which I asked Mick for next weeks Micks shots...)... But now I ask the Cowboys fans here. If we get to the end of the season with Marion still on his rookie contract and we have to offer a tender. We obviously will be offering him a first level tender. I personally cant see that holding up. Not with his exceptional spot play and Drew Rosenhaus representing his interests. NO. I think we will be looking at a situation where Marion will be offered starting RB money which puts us in a pickle of a situation. As we have first right of refusal we will have the opportunity to match any offer made and thus keep him on the roster. The flipside is that we wont be able to run the offence we currently do. Marion WILL be our starting RB(No spell back... Nothing of the sort) We will have so much committed in Barber it would be nonsensical to have a Tyson Thompson/Julius Jones taking 10+ carries a game.

So then we are left with the situation of not matching the offer sheet and being offered a 1st round pick and a 3rd round pick(I assume. Thats what you get in Madden anyway) Which will leave us in the position of having three 1st round picks this year... 2 of which will probably be in the top ten overall at this pace.(Cleveland suck. And any team willing to gamble a 1st and a 3rd on Barber must be in bad shape)...

Sure that sounds good on the surface but given that we have just watched this years rookie class signed to deals which somehow exceed the highest contracts already signed in there position in the League. It will cost Dallas a mint just to get the rookies under contract. We spent ten years getting out of cap hell only for Marion Barber to put us back in cap hell...

The only solution is really to sign Marion to an extension now and get these questions out of the way now. But if we dont... Is there a preferrable route we should go down of the two solutions offered above?
What if other teams poison pill us? We won't get to match. Give Barber the starting job already to see what he can do. If he is putting up good numbers at the end of the season, give him a long term deal. HIS deal will be cheaper than what McFadden wants. If his play drops off, WE WILL be able to sign him for a much much cheaper contract, and be able to draft another RB to continue this DUO.

I personally think he can handle the load. I know some people dont agree with me, but in those 2 games where he had 20 + attempts he gained 95 yards and 127 yards with 2 tds. You almost know for a fact JONES is gone next year, why not see what Barber can do? We already have a high octane offense.
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Old 09-28-2007, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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People kept brushing this off when I was saying DMAC's contract would interfere with the extensions we having looming. It's a bigger issue than most want to admit. I'm just trying to be real.

I've also been saying that is a reason why MB3's carries need to be held in check. We need to keep him paid like a RB in a committee not a starter.
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Old 09-28-2007, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit
People kept brushing this off when I was saying DMAC's contract would interfere with the extensions we having looming. It's a bigger issue than most want to admit. I'm just trying to be real.

I've also been saying that is a reason why MB3's carries need to be held in check. We need to keep him paid like a RB in a committee not a starter.
Regardless of the carries he gets... He WILL get a good contract if he makes it to RFA... At which point our entire cap situation goes up in smoke(Because we either match his contract... Commit to Barber and hope he works out as a sole back OR we go into the draft with 3 1st round selections this year which is going to cost us a MINT regardless of what we draft).

If we are going to keep him. We need to get him signed A.S.A.P... But with his manager. And KNOWING what type of dollars he could demand through RFA. I think we might be screwed anyway.
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Old 09-28-2007, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
People kept brushing this off when I was saying DMAC's contract would interfere with the extensions we having looming. It's a bigger issue than most want to admit. I'm just trying to be real.

I've also been saying that is a reason why MB3's carries need to be held in check. We need to keep him paid like a RB in a committee not a starter.
Even if we tried to limit his carries and keep him as a "committee" rb, other teams will still offer him starter money. I think thats evident coming off a 16 td season last year. He looks like hes on pace for another 10+ td season with more yards. I'm sure other teams will pay him more.
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Old 09-28-2007, 09:28 PM    (permalink
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Kepp him paid like an RB that isint a top 5. But he deserves alot of dough
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Old 09-28-2007, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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Regardless of the carries he gets... He WILL get a good contract if he makes it to RFA... At which point our entire cap situation goes up in smoke(Because we either match his contract... Commit to Barber and hope he works out as a sole back OR we go into the draft with 3 1st round selections this year which is going to cost us a MINT regardless of what we draft).

If we are going to keep him. We need to get him signed A.S.A.P... But with his manager. And KNOWING what type of dollars he could demand through RFA. I think we might be screwed anyway.
I agree with most of it with exception to the cap situation. I don't think "cap hell" is as big as an issue anymore. Every year, under the new bargaining agreement, the cap goes up xx amount of money. Teams have found ways to convert parts of base salaries into signing bonus to restructure cap hits to make player contracts more "cap friendly." Also factor in roster turnover. Once players leave the team, more cap space is available.
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Old 09-28-2007, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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I think it would actually make sense to give him the full load. That way we find out if he is for real and if he is, problem solved, no DMAC/Stewart and get a rb later in the draft to spell him, if he isnt, than he isnt going to get starter money. It would be beneficial for us in 2 ways. A) we see if we want to go ahead and just make him our starter for cheaper than DMAC and B) if not, other teams may back off allowing us to retain him for less than if we and other teams have this uncertainty and hope about him being a full time starter.

this Romo contract plus Newmans is going to kill us. Along with barber and our high first round pick jerry is in a tough spot.

The worst part is that i could see jerry gambling and getting rid of newman, especially if his injuries continue through out the season. It might be viewed as his age catching up with him.

that roy williams contract hurts, so does bradies...
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Old 09-28-2007, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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I wouldnt be too worried...Michael Turner was protected w/ that 1st and 3rd round tender a year ago. As good as Marion has been...A 1st and 3rd is a whole hell of a lot to pay for any player...Turner was a highly coveted RB but, the price was just too high. He could sign an extension...not out of the question at all but, if we do tender him...I don't see a reason to worry. Also, we have the ability to match...if necessary. We wont lose him.
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Old 09-28-2007, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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Barber will not get the full load...our RB situation is great as is, right now. Wade has said, time and time again that Julius is the starter and if we keep winning and barring any injuries of course...that's most likely not going to change this season.

Wade loves the fact that we have a two headed attack...keeps these guys fresh and will only help us later in the year.
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Old 09-28-2007, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Barber will not get the full load...our RB situation is great as is, right now. Wade has said, time and time again that Julius is the starter and if we keep winning and barring any injuries of course...that's most likely not going to change this season.

Wade loves the fact that we have a two headed attack...keeps these guys fresh and will only help us later in the year.
while I agree that this is the best and most production situation for this season, it certainly doesnt help us come draft time or give us any idea about how much barber really is worth.


maybe if the patriots beat us bad enough week 6 we will give up on the season and see whats up.. just kidding, but seriously, this is a dangerous offseason for us. This time next year we could all be saying "what if we would have done this", or we might all be happy, who knows.
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Old 09-28-2007, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
I wouldnt be too worried...Michael Turner was protected w/ that 1st and 3rd round tender a year ago. As good as Marion has been...A 1st and 3rd is a whole hell of a lot to pay for any player...Turner was a highly coveted RB but, the price was just too high. He could sign an extension...not out of the question at all but, if we do tender him...I don't see a reason to worry. Also, we have the ability to match...if necessary. We wont lose him.
I think Marion has proven to be a better back then Turner...

My worry is that someone makes an offer to Marion... If that happens. The contract will be starting money. GOOD starting money. Which if we are committed to a dual back system, we cant afford to match. Which would leave us in a situation of 3 First Round picks... Two of which could quite possibly become the highest paid players in there positions based SOLELY on last seasons draft contracts. Adding to the fact that we still need to do a longterm deal for Romo and Newman. Two contracts which go from in Romo's case... NOTHING to at least 5-10 million a year. Newman will basically get the same deal hes currently on(maybe 3-4 million more a year)...

I really havent got a clue what I would prefer to do if i were the Cowboys... Take Marion to RFA and hope he gets through with a 1st level tender...
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Old 09-28-2007, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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I would definitely take a 1st and 3rd Round pick for Marion Barber, probably even a 1st. With that pick we could certainly take a running back. I'd rather have a back who can be a full-time ballcarrier than one who is a very good situational back. 3 first round picks would definitely give us a TON of options in the first round.
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Old 09-28-2007, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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I would definitely take a 1st and 3rd Round pick for Marion Barber, probably even a 1st. With that pick we could certainly take a running back. I'd rather have a back who can be a full-time ballcarrier than one who is a very good situational back. 3 first round picks would definitely give us a TON of options in the first round.
Except for the fact that this is a very weak draft.
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Old 09-28-2007, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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the more i think about all these contracts, the more i see jerry jones letting both rb's go and going after mcfadden depending on our draft pick. I know d-unit has pointed out that this will actually create bigger problems for us but lets remember we are talking about jerry jones.

he likes to make a big splash and create a buzz.... although Lt is an area of need along with cb and nt, none of them would attract as many fans as mcfadden.

whatever, i cant say mcfadden and a cb would kill me, ive loved the idea as well as hated it so i guess we just have to wait and see how things pan out.
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Old 09-28-2007, 11:51 PM    (permalink
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the more i think about all these contracts, the more i see jerry jones letting both rb's go and going after mcfadden depending on our draft pick. I know d-unit has pointed out that this will actually create bigger problems for us but lets remember we are talking about jerry jones.

he likes to make a big splash and create a buzz.... although Lt is an area of need along with cb and nt, none of them would attract as many fans as mcfadden.

whatever, i cant say mcfadden and a cb would kill me, ive loved the idea as well as hated it so i guess we just have to wait and see how things pan out.
I see Barber getting a pretty solid deal from us. I think JJ values what he has done for us.
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Old 09-29-2007, 02:38 AM    (permalink
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If Barber gets more tds then he has last yr, I really dont see how we dont resign him, its alot cheaper to resign barber, take a fast rb in the 2nd or 3rd and sign him, vs sign DMac...and its already a proven position, Id rather not go back to the draft on a position that is getting good production...


But we did have an issue, him, Romo, T New, somethings gotta give
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Old 09-29-2007, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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If Barber gets more tds then he has last yr, I really dont see how we dont resign him, its alot cheaper to resign barber, take a fast rb in the 2nd or 3rd and sign him, vs sign DMac...and its already a proven position, Id rather not go back to the draft on a position that is getting good production...


But we did have an issue, him, Romo, T New, somethings gotta give
A LOT'S gotta give.
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Old 09-29-2007, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Remember that if we play well and make a deep playoff run or win the Superbowl, Marion would probably stay for less to be on a winning team.
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Old 09-29-2007, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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Remember that if we play well and make a deep playoff run or win the Superbowl, Marion would probably stay for less to be on a winning team.
That's incredibly wishful thinking. Besides, the organization could always trade down a couple of spots, which I believe would help save cap space even if there are more players drafted, as the #5 overall would cost more than the #9 overall and an extra third rounder.
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Old 09-29-2007, 04:22 PM    (permalink
robert_in_bigd
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That's incredibly wishful thinking. Besides, the organization could always trade down a couple of spots, which I believe would help save cap space even if there are more players drafted, as the #5 overall would cost more than the #9 overall and an extra third rounder.
I just posted on a thread about this.

If talking first rounders and other day 1 picks, trading down to save money on the cap is not an option. You basically end up with 2 players making as much a 1 player -- unless you give away draft picks (not).

Trading picks this year for picks in the coming drafts is the only practical way of doing this.
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Old 09-30-2007, 08:20 AM    (permalink
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If we tendered Marion a first round tender and another team signed him anyway, I'd LOVE IT!!

I'd trade MBIII for a 1st rounder all day every day. He's a nice player but he's not a top 10 RB in this league, in fact, I don't think he's top 15 in this league. I'd take a first round pick for him any day.

I'd rather have Maroney, Addai, Marshawn Lynch on the team (all mid-late first round picks) than MBIII.
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I just wanna warn you guys not to take TNew41 too seriously. He's....let's just say, special. He's fairly harmless, though. He just needs several years of seasoning before he tries to make any more points, is all.
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Old 09-30-2007, 04:58 PM    (permalink
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Except for the fact that this is a very weak draft.
I'll take Jonathan Stewart over Marion Barber any day...or you trade up with your two first rounders and get Darren McFadden.
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Old 10-01-2007, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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If we tendered Marion a first round tender and another team signed him anyway, I'd LOVE IT!!

I'd trade MBIII for a 1st rounder all day every day. He's a nice player but he's not a top 10 RB in this league, in fact, I don't think he's top 15 in this league. I'd take a first round pick for him any day.

I'd rather have Maroney, Addai, Marshawn Lynch on the team (all mid-late first round picks) than MBIII.
THANK YOU!!!

Judast, I was wondering how long this MM session would go on before someone brought a little bit of levity and reality to the conversation.

Marion Barber is what he is. He's a nice player who has shined in a specific role on a team with tons of complimentary players around him. I love him plenty, but I'm not going to be saying that he is anywhere near 1st round level value.

You have to remember what a 1st rounder is worth in this league. Randy Moss, possibly the most prolific receiver in NFL history during his absolute apex, was traded for basically a 1st rounder and a few decent players. Daunte Culpepper, just one season removed from a top 5 all-time statistical season and supposedly in his prime (though there were injury issues as well as a pretty horrible start to the previous year) only netted a 2nd rounder.

If any of you think for one second that Barber would ever, EVER be signed at--not just the bloated expense of the contract it would take to get him--the cost of a 1st round pick (let alone a 1st and 3rd), you are delusional. The season will end and, depending on the circumstances surrounding the team at the time, Dallas will determine whether to tender him at the 1st round level or the 2nd round level. There is no way we will tender him at the highest level (1st and 3rd). That will lead to us getting another year of him at 1.2-2.0mil. Then, at the end of 2008 we will re-evaluate the situation and determine whether to commit to him long-term.

And for all the "cap hell! cap hell!" shouters out there, realize that we are currently TWELVE MILLION under the cap. We will sign Romo this season, and allocate as much of his signing money to this year's cap as possible, thus putting us in a great position down the road, and freeing up tons of room for possible future free-agent additions, extensions of current players and our high(though maybe not so high as we thought) 1st rounder from Cleveland.

Please, Marion is a good player, don't make the entire Dallas Cowboys fanbase look stupid by acting like he is a franchise back. He is a backup RB who has excelled in certain situations, and scored a lot of TD......with a LOT of opportunities. Don't kid yourself into thinking that there are a dozen GMs out there just waiting to throw the farm at him. It's a ridiculous notion.
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Old 10-01-2007, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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I would definitely take a 1st and 3rd Round pick for Marion Barber, probably even a 1st. With that pick we could certainly take a running back. I'd rather have a back who can be a full-time ballcarrier than one who is a very good situational back. 3 first round picks would definitely give us a TON of options in the first round.
It's funny you say this but have Julius Jones sig.
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