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Old 03-14-2010, 10:43 PM    (permalink
YAYareaRB
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Originally Posted by bantx View Post
Mayfeather will never fight pac boe face it!

I see it like this, he doesn't want to take a chance at having that one lost to Manny, his ego is too big.

Keep ducking and dodging
I'm not even close to being an avid boxing fan so this is straight confusion on my part but, I thought it was the other way around.

Mayweather wanted olympic style drug tests that PacMan absolutely refused to do. I heard they don't want him getting blood taken from him that close to the fight but I have no idea who to believe.
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Old 03-14-2010, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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It pretty much not a cut and dry situation. A compromise should have been easily reached, but both guys refused to budge and the fight was ruined. Both of them are at fault.
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Old 03-15-2010, 10:03 AM    (permalink
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IDK how Manny fought "scrubs" compared to Floyd Mayweather...

They particularly fought the same guys.
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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Those guys are only considered "scrubs" after Manny destroys them. Before every one of his last 4 fights all I heard is how he would be abused by the bigger man, than the second he wins it's because his opponents are trash. I mean Hatton's only loss was to Floyd then all of a sudden people say he's the equivalent to Jose Canseco. Cotto is the reigning welterweight champ then when he losses to Manny apparently its because he didn't have the heart to box anymore, or that he had already been washed up and that Clottey really beat him in their matchup. Then Manny beats Clottey and all of a sudden Clottey isn't considered the top 5 welterweight he was prior to the fight. Look I'm not saying Manny got the best from any of them, but the fact is that all of these fights when he signed them were incredibly dangerous especially Cotto and IMO even Clottey. I just think his speed is too much for most welterweights. It's amazing though because Manny still isn't really even a Welterweight. He probably was around 143 on actual fight night where most welterweights are close to 160. Manny is smaller and shorter than every welterweight he has fought, yet it appears that he has more power than any of them.
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Old 03-15-2010, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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Those guys are only considered "scrubs" after Manny destroys them. Before every one of his last 4 fights all I heard is how he would be abused by the bigger man, than the second he wins it's because his opponents are trash. I mean Hatton's only loss was to Floyd then all of a sudden people say he's the equivalent to Jose Canseco. Cotto is the reigning welterweight champ then when he losses to Manny apparently its because he didn't have the heart to box anymore, or that he had already been washed up and that Clottey really beat him in their matchup. Then Manny beats Clottey and all of a sudden Clottey isn't considered the top 5 welterweight he was prior to the fight. Look I'm not saying Manny got the best from any of them, but the fact is that all of these fights when he signed them were incredibly dangerous especially Cotto and IMO even Clottey. I just think his speed is too much for most welterweights. It's amazing though because Manny still isn't really even a Welterweight. He probably was around 143 on actual fight night where most welterweights are close to 160. Manny is smaller and shorter than every welterweight he has fought, yet it appears that he has more power than any of them.
No real intelligent boxing fan hates on the Cotto or Clottey wins, they are legit wins. Just ignore anyone who hates on those, seriously. The Hatton win, a lot of people thought he may be done before the Manny fight, and I think he probably was. Takes nothing away from Manny's victories over Cotto and Clottey tho.

Saying Manny has more power than top WW fighters is incorrect imo. He has a chin that holds up at WW, thats for sure,but I don't think he is a huge puncher at 147. He hits hard, yes, but I dont think he has that knock you cold power.....what he does do though is throw more punches than anyone at the weight and the combinations/repeated punches just beat guys down. I don't think there is any way Manny hits harder than Cotto, no way. The thing that makes Manny great is that he can take the strongest WW punches (ie: Cotto fight), while WW's can't handle his combination punching. Don't get me wrong, Manny's power translates and guys cant just walk through his shots, but he doesn't have elite WW power, it is very good tho.
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Old 03-15-2010, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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It pretty much not a cut and dry situation. A compromise should have been easily reached, but both guys refused to budge and the fight was ruined. Both of them are at fault.
I don't see how both of them are at fault. From what I understand Manny don't like the idea of getting blood drawn that close to the fight and proposed to take a drug test 30 days before the fight and also agreed to take a blood test immediately after the fight. Mayweather knew Manny wouldn't agree to the Olympic testing and used that as a way out. IMO Mayweather doesn't believe he can beat Manny like he says. Hey he has been avoiding Mosley for awhile now so maybe he will beat him and give himself the confidence to stop running and fight the one person everyone wants to see him fight.
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Old 03-15-2010, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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I thought it was kind of ridiculous how Manny was against getting blood drawn before fights and didn't want it, but looking at things and not knowing much about his background or culture I believe it. If you watched his entrance he is extremely superstitious. He has a priest blessing him with holy water in the dressing room, he has some guy rub a cross across his face, and he is constantly doing rituals. I also remember on an HBO special that during the fights his mother doesn't watch and instead rubs her face across pictures of Jesus. So yeah I absolutely believe that blood testing would be a deterrent in Floyd negotiations. You can find fault on both sides, but IMO its dumb how all of a sudden Floyd wants to change the type of testing for Manny. Olympic testing is totally legitimate and an equal alternative but IMO it's just dumb how he's trying to change it with a guy who clearly has an issue with it. Sugar Shane isn't the safest fight he could have taken and I give Floyd credit for taking him on, but I truly believe he is scared to lose to Manny. IMO losing to Shane which is very unlikely wouldn't bother him too much, but losing to Manny would permanently eject Manny over Floyd in all boxing discussions. I still believe Floyd matches up favorably against Manny, but IMO he's clearly scared.
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Old 03-15-2010, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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I thought it was kind of ridiculous how Manny was against getting blood drawn before fights and didn't want it, but looking at things and not knowing much about his background or culture I believe it. If you watched his entrance he is extremely superstitious. He has a priest blessing him with holy water in the dressing room, he has some guy rub a cross across his face, and he is constantly doing rituals. I also remember on an HBO special that during the fights his mother doesn't watch and instead rubs her face across pictures of Jesus. So yeah I absolutely believe that blood testing would be a deterrent in Floyd negotiations. You can find fault on both sides, but IMO its dumb how all of a sudden Floyd wants to change the type of testing for Manny. Olympic testing is totally legitimate and an equal alternative but IMO it's just dumb how he's trying to change it with a guy who clearly has an issue with it. Sugar Shane isn't the safest fight he could have taken and I give Floyd credit for taking him on, but I truly believe he is scared to lose to Manny. IMO losing to Shane which is very unlikely wouldn't bother him too much, but losing to Manny would permanently eject Manny over Floyd in all boxing discussions. I still believe Floyd matches up favorably against Manny, but IMO he's clearly scared.
I don't think it was a superstition thing(even though that may have played a role). I think it might have been more of being against taking any amount of blood out of your body THAT close to a fight. I could be wrong though.
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Old 03-15-2010, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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Giving Pacquiao a 30-day window between his last test and the fight is giving him free reign to use whatever PED he wants. There are performance enhancers that can clear your system within a few hours. The ONLY way to catch PEDs nowadays is random testing, and a little bit of dumb luck. If they test him after the fight, it's already gone from his system. The only way to get caught is if you're unlucky enough to have a random test scheduled in that period before it clears your system. PEDs are THAT far ahead of testing methods right now.

Anyway with Pacquiao, he's definitely has his fair share of blame for the fight falling through(so does Floyd). Paying attention to the stuff coming from his camp is very sketchy. Arum comes out and says that the most tattooed man in the Philippines is afraid of needles. Roach says something about tests before x amount of time prior to the fight is okay, then they recant. It was a big joke and the whole thing made me highly highly suspicious of him when I wasn't at all before. Floyd was gonna take those same tests, too.

Anyway, yeah Pacquiao is a great fighter and anyone who tries to tell you he hasn't fought anyone is full of ****. Hatton may have been ruined by Floyd, but he pwned Miguel Cotto, who is a bigger fighter that a lot of people thought would win. I didn't catch the Clottey fight, but I assume it was similar. I agree with Rob on why he wins, too. Those punches just come so fast and he is so relentless. That's why the Floyd-Pac matchup could have "saved" boxing. It was a perfect clash of styles and I hope it eventually happens while both of them are in their primes. It will basically let us know who was the best fighter of this generation. It's a bonafide megafight.
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Old 03-15-2010, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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The posts above prove my point, both guys have a point, but there should have been a compromise. The guys were too close on the details to have it fall apart.....it was a petty game of who would blink first, nobody did and the fans lost. While I don't blame Manny for not giving in to FMJ, I also don't blame Floyd for demanding the best possible testing regime for what will become one of the biggest fights of all time.
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Old 03-15-2010, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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Has Mayweather ever used Olympic style testing or requested it for any other fighter? I mean seriously Manny didn't even have to offer anything. He made a counter offer and Mayweather still wouldn't do it. IMO Mayweather used the testing to draw questions about Manny. I know I hear people all the time(not on the forums) say Manny uses steroids and that is why he wouldn't do it. This was Mayweathers plan to get out of the fight. I just truly believe that he is afraid of Manny. Does he see film and say "that dude has to be on steriods".
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Old 03-15-2010, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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Am I the only one who would rather see if Pac can hold up against Sugar Shane? Obviously if Shane loses he wouldn't deserve a title shot but Clottey lost his last fight and got a fight for a title. Stylistically I would love to see how Pac reacts to getting hit by a WW like Shane. I'm kind of over Pac vs Floyd. I just don't see anything happening. Floyd's camp wants control and Arum won't back down. I really don't think Manny has much say in negotiations.
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Old 03-15-2010, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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Has Mayweather ever used Olympic style testing or requested it for any other fighter? I mean seriously Manny didn't even have to offer anything. He made a counter offer and Mayweather still wouldn't do it. IMO Mayweather used the testing to draw questions about Manny. I know I hear people all the time(not on the forums) say Manny uses steroids and that is why he wouldn't do it. This was Mayweathers plan to get out of the fight. I just truly believe that he is afraid of Manny. Does he see film and say "that dude has to be on steriods".
Do you blame him for demanding the highest quality testing for what could be the biggest fight in the history of boxing? I sure don't.

Do you blame him for, in today's day and age, being skeptical of a guy who has gone from 107 lbs. to 147 lbs. and has stayed ripped as ****? I sure don't.

Do you blame him for using this as a ploy to gain a possible mental advantage in the fight? I sure don't.

Now, I'm not a Mayweather homer at all, but he has some legit points that are tough to argue.

I could do the same for Pac, but I think a lot of people have covered it both on these boards and in the media. Both guys have legit arguments and neither is really fully in the right. Personally though, when I look at it, I want the best testing possible as long as it doesnt effect either guy's physical performance the night of the fight. That's where it gets interesting for me though and the line kind of blurs. Due to Pac's supposed superstition, the blood test could possibly effect his performance.....it wouldn't be anything physical tho (the amount of blood drawn would have no affect whatsoever). So, because Pac would be affected mentally, is that reason enough to not have the strictest testing possible for such a high profile fight? I don't know, again, another tough question.

The other question that has to arise here is whether or not you can segregate this fight from the rest of boxing because that is exactly what this testing would do. In my opinion you absolutely can, but there is a legit argument the other way too. I think that when you factor in the high profile of this fight, the fact that we are in a "steroid era", and the amazing weight gain of Pac it does make sense. Now, I would like to see boxing as a whole adapt Olympic style testing, but it probably is not feasible. It is for big fights though and I think they should start applying it.
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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He hasn't even gained more than fourty pounds and how long has it been since he weighed 107 anyway? It's not like its some incredible amount of good weight in a relatively short period of time.
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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Has Mayweather ever used Olympic style testing or requested it for any other fighter? I mean seriously Manny didn't even have to offer anything. He made a counter offer and Mayweather still wouldn't do it. IMO Mayweather used the testing to draw questions about Manny. I know I hear people all the time(not on the forums) say Manny uses steroids and that is why he wouldn't do it. This was Mayweathers plan to get out of the fight. I just truly believe that he is afraid of Manny. Does he see film and say "that dude has to be on steriods".
Well it doesn't help the accusations saying he will not take the test. Do I think he took steroids? nope. So why not take the test if thats the reason? Manny ends up looking like he has something to hide.
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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I think this is all about Bob Arum wanting to show he has control of everything. I think it was a great idea by Floyd's camp to try to play mind games as well as show that he dictates things. At the same time my opinion is that once that ploy failed they should have dropped the insistence on a different style of testing that Manny has done.
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Like I said Mayweather is using the blood testing to get out of the fight. He knows Manny won't doe it so he tried to make him. What does Manny have to prove? Why should he budge. I mean I have never seen Mayweather ask for different blood testing before and because it is such a big fight you actually believe that is why he is doing it??? Like I said Mayweather must be looking at tapes and saying "damn he is a beast" and gets scared. I mean has anyone else ever accused him of anything like this before? Not that I know of. IMO Mayweather has more to lose than Manny so why should Manny budge? IMO if Mayweather retires without fighting Manny he will go down as one of the greatest fighters who ducked and dodged his biggest challenge.
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mo drew gets about 16 touches a game on offense (on a good day), and will run circles around ray rice. rice has no speed, 2nd burst or agility. he's a strong midget. How can anyone be excited about that.
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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He hasn't even gained more than fourty pounds and how long has it been since he weighed 107 anyway? It's not like its some incredible amount of good weight in a relatively short period of time.
It has been a long time, that for sure. It doesnt really matter tho, the thing is that he has never put on fat when bulking nor has he lost any speed.....nobody has ever done what he has done in the history of boxing in terms of moving up classes. It is suspicious, especially given the era we are in......for the record, I don't think he used roids, but it is certainly possible. Floyd is saying, if you didn't use roids, just take the tests and prove it.....I don't blame him one bit. I also see why Manny would refuse tho.
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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It would have been nice to see Cotto v. Pac pre-Margarito but it is all speculation what would have happened if he fought a figther who was mentally 'there'.

Who's fault over the non fight between mayweather and pac is both side. Roach is a snake anyways and him and Arum together are a lose lose. The Mayweather camp has its own issues.

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Old 03-15-2010, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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Well it doesn't help the accusations saying he will not take the test. Do I think he took steroids? nope. So why not take the test if thats the reason? Manny ends up looking like he has something to hide.
Yea that would be the easy solution but why play Mayweathers games? I mean that is all it is. He don't really care about the testing. He just wants to **** with Pacman. I love how Manny didn't even mess around and grabbed a fight as soon as this ******** went on to long. He basically looked at Mayweather realized he got scared and kept it moving.
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mo drew gets about 16 touches a game on offense (on a good day), and will run circles around ray rice. rice has no speed, 2nd burst or agility. he's a strong midget. How can anyone be excited about that.
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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Like I said Mayweather is using the blood testing to get out of the fight. He knows Manny won't doe it so he tried to make him. What does Manny have to prove? Why should he budge. I mean I have never seen Mayweather ask for different blood testing before and because it is such a big fight you actually believe that is why he is doing it??? Like I said Mayweather must be looking at tapes and saying "damn he is a beast" and gets scared. I mean has anyone else ever accused him of anything like this before? Not that I know of. IMO Mayweather has more to lose than Manny so why should Manny budge? IMO if Mayweather retires without fighting Manny he will go down as one of the greatest fighters who ducked and dodged his biggest challenge.
Mayweather's camp has been saying Manny may be on roids since he moved up to 140, its nothing new. And Manny is more likely to be on roids (going by gains) than anyone else he has ever fought. I would totally want stricter drug testing if I was fighting a guy that gained 40 pounds, stayed shredded, increased power, and lost what seems like no speed.
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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Mayweather's camp has been saying Manny may be on roids since he moved up to 140, its nothing new. And Manny is more likely to be on roids (going by gains) than anyone else he has ever fought. I would totally want stricter drug testing if I was fighting a guy that gained 40 pounds, stayed shredded, increased power, and lost what seems like no speed.
Brady Anderson's power surge was all natural.
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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It took Mayweather awhile to fight Mosley so he will eventually fight Pacman. Maybe after Pacman stops ripping through everyone.
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mo drew gets about 16 touches a game on offense (on a good day), and will run circles around ray rice. rice has no speed, 2nd burst or agility. he's a strong midget. How can anyone be excited about that.
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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Brady Anderson's power surge was all natural.
I guess you are someone who thinks Pacman is on steroids?
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Originally Posted by Metsox
mo drew gets about 16 touches a game on offense (on a good day), and will run circles around ray rice. rice has no speed, 2nd burst or agility. he's a strong midget. How can anyone be excited about that.
John Wall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4CbQGBbUOw
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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I guess you are someone who thinks Pacman is on steroids?
I am one who thinks, at this time there is no proof against or for him being on roids. Sometimes the eye doesn't lie e.g. barry Bonds. I am not saying he is or is not.
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