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Old 10-11-2007, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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Scratch that, New England went for it on 4th and goal from the Cleveland 4 with just 56 seconds remaining in the game. Not only that, they did a LB eligible play to Vrabel. And they don't know why people call them classless....
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Old 10-11-2007, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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52 to 49...dear lord. I hope it doesnt come to that. Our defense isnt that bad.
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Old 10-11-2007, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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52 to 49...dear lord. I hope it doesnt come to that. Our defense isnt that bad.
I dont know what he was thinking...I dont think ill see the day Belichick's defense gives up that many points, and we for sure arent that bad either...


We need Barber to get the ground game going early and slow the pace of the game up, but Its not going to be a 50 point blast, im thinking 27-24
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Old 10-11-2007, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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If a team scores over 35 pts...it's going to get ugly for the other team because they are going to become one-deminsional which is something that cannot happen against teams that can get to the passer like these two.

If the score gets high it's going to be a blow out.
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Old 10-11-2007, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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I never said you were an Eagles fan, just that I couldnt figure out how they had a better front office than us when we have "rings" and they have none.
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08-13-2007, 10:11 PM #113
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Quote:Originally Posted by robert_in_bigd
Don't argue facts with a Cowboys fan. We are not very rationale when "defending" our team. To Pocket, Jerry Jones and Crew are better than Andy Reid and Crew. To bad not one football person outside of the Cowboys organization, or any other fair minded individual, would agree.

Originally Posted by pocketaces
Then go be a Eggles fan. Get out of the closet. Its time you anounce it to the world. Come on you can do it....I'm...A...Eggles...Fan...and...proud of it. There don't you feel better.
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Moving along ,,,,,, Patriots are not only bush league they are a dirty team. Starting with Harrison and now the infamous Wilfork knee thing v Losman. I am sick of them and their dirty play.

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Old 10-11-2007, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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If the score gets high it's going to be a blow out.
For them or for us?
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Old 10-11-2007, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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Scratch that, New England went for it on 4th and goal from the Cleveland 4 with just 56 seconds remaining in the game. Not only that, they did a LB eligible play to Vrabel. And they don't know why people call them classless....
Harrison's constant dirty play and Wilfork's knee job to boot.

They are the modern day Raiders with a pretty QB the media loves.
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Old 10-11-2007, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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Don't argue facts with a Cowboys fan. We are not very rationale when "defending" our team. To Pocket, Jerry Jones and Crew are better than Andy Reid and Crew. To bad not one football person outside of the Cowboys organization, or any other fair minded individual, would agree.


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Originally Posted by pocketaces
Then go be a Eggles fan. Get out of the closet. Its time you anounce it to the world. Come on you can do it....I'm...A...Eggles...Fan...and...proud of it. There don't you feel better.


Moving along ,,,,,, Patriots are not only bush league they are a dirty team. Starting with Harrison and now the infamous Wilfork knee thing v Losman.

THEN GO BE A EAGLES FAN......Your point? IMO rings mean more than regular season wins. You disagree so go be an Eagles fan.
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Old 10-11-2007, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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They were just showing some film session on espn about how the pats work, and how tough they are to stop when spreading the field with 4 and 5 wr sets, so it really hurts we dont have Henry...


But they showed some film of the Chargers who runs a 3-4 similiar to ours, and the type of pressure they put on Brady, they had the db's up close to bump the wrs off the line to make brady pump fake the ball, and that should be enough time for us to get to the qb...point blank, if we dont get pressure I doubt we can just sit back and wai for a mistake to happen, we have to get after him ad cause chaos
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Old 10-11-2007, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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THEN GO BE A EAGLES FAN......Your point? IMO rings mean more than regular season wins. You disagree so go be an Eagles fan.
Please stop. You are contradicting yourself.

Worse yet, you are stalking me with nasty posts.

Please stop, I promise not to mention you. Let us be civil.
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Old 10-11-2007, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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They were just showing some film session on espn about how the pats work, and how tough they are to stop when spreading the field with 4 and 5 wr sets, so it really hurts we dont have Henry...
But they showed some film of the Chargers who runs a 3-4 similiar to ours, and the type of pressure they put on Brady, they had the db's up close to bump the wrs off the line to make brady pump fake the ball, and that should be enough time for us to get to the qb...point blank, if we dont get pressure I doubt we can just sit back and wai for a mistake to happen, we have to get after him ad cause chaos

Could not agree more. Question is do we do this with 5 in coverage, 6 or 7?

Can we get away with 6/7 in coverge and 4/5 rushing?

Not so sure. Key is Spencer, Ratliff and Hatcher if you ask me. They are the unknowns that could make the difference.

Thoughts?
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Old 10-11-2007, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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http://www.star-telegram.com/332/story/264213.html

Looks like Henry is likely out this week. That's not the news we needed going into this his huge game. I had anticipated this because high ankle sprains are quickly healed.

I feel that the key to this game is controlling the clock and keeping the Patriots offense on the sideline. If we cannot get the running game going, we will need to run a lot screens and dink and dunk all over the place. It's kind of the same approach the Patriots used last year when they had no legitimate deep threat.

As for our passing game, we need to figure out a way to effectively stretch the field against that defense. Unfortunately our key stretch receiver(Glenn) is still out.

On Monday night, there were 2-3 occasions where we run the shotgun with both Barber and JJ in the backfield. I like this approach, both are solid pass blockers and can catch the ball effectively out of the backfield.

I believe we shouldn't deviate too much from what we've already done this year on offense. Just throw in a new wrinkle or two.

On defense, we cannot just key in on Moss. They have three other key receiving threats- Welker, Watson and Stallworth. I personally see Welker as the one out of those three that will cause us the most fits. He's quick and shifty with excellent hands. I like what Buffalo did to us monday night. They would have like 8 guys standing up at the line of scrimmage. This is something we should try early and see if it causes any issues for Brady.

Okay, these were just some of my ramblings. More to come!!!
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Old 10-11-2007, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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Could not agree more. Question is do we do this with 5 in coverage, 6 or 7?

Can we get away with 6/7 in coverge and 4/5 rushing?

Not so sure. Key is Spencer, Ratliff and Hatcher if you ask me. They are the unknowns that could make the difference.

Thoughts?
Our D line in general is going to have to help, i think if we just rely on ware and spencer they can focus on stopping them, although knowing the pats and from what people say, they try to take away what you love to do first, so they will focus attention on Ware all this week, hopefully we have some new things to show them and line him up differently all game, but I agree Spencer will have to show up big to put pressure on the other side of the ball...


If we get Hatcher playing out of his mind, it helps everyone out, I like him and ratliff, but one of the two is going to have to go above and beyond what they have done so far, because if our D line can get some penetration with the down 3, we can work wonders with how we attack with the lbers
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Old 10-11-2007, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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I'm gonna be interested to see how the Boys try to defend Moss...He's gotten much better at getting off the jam, so we can't really get up close and play bump-and-run for 60 minutes...I really wanna see them fade Hamlin or Roy in his direction early in the game, and just tell them to go take his head off when he catches the football. Hit dude in the mouth a couple of times and see if you can get him to get a case of the alligator arms...
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Old 10-12-2007, 02:00 AM    (permalink
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For them or for us?
Either way I actually can't predict this game.

As far as my personal strategy aka what we should do to win....

First of all their biggest weapon...Randy Moss.
Solve this or atleast contain this by sitting Reeves on him for the majority. Leave Hamlin over the top....I don't care what the package calls for leave Hamlin on his side....if he goes in motion Hamlin shifts. This essentially allows Reeves to jam him to the outside and force our successful cloud coverage...much like teams did to TO last year. If Reeves bites Hamlin is all alone but it's still the best we got.

Newman plays on Welker imo. Welker gets off by running hitches and quick LOS passes...this is where Newman was at the top of his game last week...keep doing what he does best.

Stallworth is someone I don't have an answer for. In my scheme if you keep Hamlin to a side you can isolate Stallworth with Jones on Roy's side...now while this is a disadvantage we simply have to stop the best options first.

As far as Watson goes. I don't want to see bracket coverage on him all game. But I don't want us to overlook him either. I trust that we can cover him with LB's and not get hurt by him bad enough to lose. Burnett/Carp would do a good enough job to contain him in passing situations...I'm not scared about Watson on first down or in running situations.

As far as the pressure goes. Bring it right up the gut. I don't want to see Ware and Spencer outside everytime...stunt them inside from time to time. Bring James and Ayodele up the gut shooting gaps. Don't blitz all day but don't only blitz in passing situations either...mix it up...show middle blitz at LOS and back off...keep Brady guessing. I think we need to force Brady out of his pocket...he likes to sit in there and take the hit...force him to roll out or move laterally and his passes will lose some velocity allowing our ball hawking team to make plays. Rushing Spencer and Ware on the edges all day isn't going to be enough because their OT's can keep you outside which just allows Brady to step up and deliever the ball in the middle of the field or deep.

Clog the middle. I don't care if we have to slant middle all first half...don't give them more than 3 yards a pop in the middle. We are good enough on the outsides with our backers and corners and safeties...just don't let them get that running game oing in the middle of the field or it's going to be a long day.

On Offense.
With our OL I don't care whether Barber tends to move laterally when there isn't a hole...give him the ball. We have a nasty OL...we have WR's that love to block....get him the ball and smash it down their throats.

I don't want to see us running on first and 10 early in the game. I want to see us throwing quick slants/hitches/flares/quick outs. These are essentially running plays and it keeps us from 3rd and longs.

We can expose the intermediate middle against this team. Witten and TO are going to be there all game. When TO said get the popcorn ready he wasn't kidding I'm looking for him to have atleast 10 catches.

10 play drives are going to give us a chance in this game. We aren't going to go at Hobbs all game and expect to bust one. We have to be efficient Romo has to go to his checkdowns if his primary option isn't open.

I don't care if we only have 10 rushes all game if we utilitize the quick routes and can't get anything going on the ground so be it. We have weapons, we can establish drives. Keep ourselves in 3rd and 5's and well constantly be going down the field.

TOP is huge in this game. This is why we can't force the run early. Every game this year we have tried to run the ball against 8 man fronts. Even tho we have a huge OL there is only 5 of them and 8 guys to stop the run in 3 yards. Give Romo and audible and move down the field. If you read base defense 7 in the box run. I don't care if Harrison is cheating up and then dropping back off the snap. With 8 in the box you can't run...Harrison has been around long enough to read the play before reacting. This is why quick passing routes are going to establish drives early.

Our OL is huge we will run the ball in the second half and we will have success doing it. But don't force it in the first half...this will get us down early if we are averaging around 3 yards a carry.

Penalties...IK it's simple but no shooting ourselves in the foot and walking away with this game. We are at home no reason we can't audible into ideal situations and still fire off the ball on the correct cadence.

This game is such a toss up to me. I have the patriots winning...just because I have a feeling we get forced into playing catchup early. If this is the case Romo will press. Instead of hitting TO wide open 5-7 yards down the field...he is going to force the throw to witten up the seam and we are going to pay. Just take what the defense gives us and we will win this game.
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Old 10-12-2007, 03:04 AM    (permalink
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Great post thule.
I think Wade will bring new packages for this game, and we're gonna see the "chaos" package a lot more. When the Patriots will spread the field, I think the keys to stop them are Ware and Spencer. They've both got the speed and quickness to hit Brady in a couple of second, forcing a bad throw. Wade has to find a way to free them and maybe allow them to o untoched. Just like Ware did last year to Peyton when he went with the shotgun empty backfield package.

By the way, have you seen how good is playing Bowen in passing situation? He had a couple of key pressures the last couple of weeks and he forced a guard to hold him nullifying a long pass by Edwards when we were down by 10 at the end of the first half.
Jason Hatcher is coming along too, he had a great game monday, and finally reached his first sack of the year.
To win this battle we need our pass rushers to play their best game of the season. Ellis, Ware, Spencer, Ratliff, Bowen, Hatcher, they all need to get good penetration.
And I think Burnett will play a lot more (if he's healthy) than previous weeks, we need his coverage skills and his ability to rush from the inside.

Finally, give the damn ball to the Barbarian. There's a reason why he was on the field on the last two drives of the monday game, and it's not only because he's a great pass protector.
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Old 10-12-2007, 07:50 AM    (permalink
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I heard someone suggest that we should have Roy spy on Moss all game and anytime he gets close to catching the ball, have Roy lay him out... Moss typically can't handle the hits and will start giving up on the ball.
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Old 10-12-2007, 08:52 AM    (permalink
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Thule given what we know, why would Roy play Safety this week? Base coverage this week should be Hamlin and Watkins. Roy as a LB on Dime.

I can easily see the Patriots go 3 WR all game with Watson and 1 Back. Even in 2 WR, Watson is like a WR. To me, this means a 3-3-5.

5 DB = Newman, Watkins, Hamlin, Reeves, Brown/Jones. They all cover better than RW. 3 LB = Ware, Spencer/Ellis, Burnett/Carpenter/Williams

I just think this game is an anomaly for us and our D can't line up Base (ala Parcells) and think we can match up. I can even see two DL, 4 LB and 5 DB this game.

But base 3-4 with Williams, Ayodele and Bradie versus that passing attack is sheer suicide. We need less size, more speed, and creative blitzing/pass rusing.
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Old 10-12-2007, 08:56 AM    (permalink
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I heard someone suggest that we should have Roy spy on Moss all game and anytime he gets close to catching the ball, have Roy lay him out... Moss typically can't handle the hits and will start giving up on the ball.
RW can't cover. 16 games ago I thought the same -- that he could double effectively. The Giants game effectively ended that hope once and for all. In fact, NFL Network did a segment on this with Sterling Sharpe pointing this out. To use his words "Roy looks uncomfortable in space."

Brown and Watkins need to play. I dare say put even Brown over Randy and tell him "go be a 4.3 athlete" with playing Cover 1 or Cover 2 Man.

Hamlin -- Watkins
Reeves -- Newman -- Jones/Brown/PS Guy
Ware -- James/Carpenter -- Burnett/Williams -- Spencer/Ellis
Ratliff/Spears -- Hatcher/Canty

Another thought (as crazy as it sounds) is put Ware in coverage. He is really good and can cover the TE. Hell even nuts enuff to line him over the slot and jam Welker if playing zone.

Ellis and Spencer rushing is not quite as good but we can still be effective combining them with Hatcher/Ratliff pass rushing. Point being Ware and Burnett covering or Burnett and Carpenter covering allows us to play zone effectively as well as man.

You can't ask Ellis or Spencer to do anything beyond zone.

I will come back to this with two base packages with wrinkles but I definately see us putting as much speed into the D doing some things very differently. CHaos, et al.

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Old 10-12-2007, 09:01 AM    (permalink
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RW can't cover. 16 games ago I thought the same -- that he could double effectively. The Giants game effectively ended that hope once and for all. In fact, NFL Network did a segment on this with Sterling Sharpe pointing this out. To use his words "Roy looks uncomfortable in space."

Brown and Watkins need to play. I dare say put even Brown over Randy and tell him "go be a 4.3 athlete" with playing Cover 1 or Cover 2 Man.
I hope you're not talking about Courtney Brown who is listed as out for a couple more weeks with a torn biceps
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Old 10-12-2007, 09:09 AM    (permalink
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I hope you're not talking about Courtney Brown who is listed as out for a couple more weeks with a torn biceps
You are right, I had no idea.

Regardless, pick a corner. Point is get the weakest corner in combination with the Safety Over the Top to go out and be the sacrificial lamb with Randy.

Nate Jones? Alan Ball? Aaron Glenn? errr.....
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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I still think Moss goes off, he has always said he wanted to be a Cowboy, and vowed to make sure we payed for it, who did we take over him that year anyway??


but still, hamlin or roy, i dont care who, if we hit him in the mouth he wont play the same all game....id prefer hamlin, he makes the most of it, roy might miss all together....


even if we double moss, i wouldnt mind seeing T New on Moss, i really dont even want him to get comfortable this game, and i want him to know every time he tries to make a catch over the middle how he did against cincy we wont let it happen without punishment...


and please, please let TO back up his talking...for once can he show me a game of dominance, no drops, because he makes everyone elses job so much easier
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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I wonder if we'll see TO on Defense any this week... haha - have him go up against Moss as the Ballhawk S in our Dime/Nkl Defense
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Old 10-12-2007, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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Reeves on Moss 1 on 1 is a recipe for disaster. I think you'll see some double teams and us rolling a safety over in protection.

The best way to defend Moss is a good pass rush on Brady. If we had both Henry & Newman starting this week, you could easily put Newman on Moss everywhere he goes, but that isn't the case. We need to get creative this game.
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Old 10-12-2007, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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Reeves on Moss 1 on 1 is a recipe for disaster. I think you'll see some double teams and us rolling a safety over in protection.

The best way to defend Moss is a good pass rush on Brady. If we had both Henry & Newman starting this week, you could easily put Newman on Moss everywhere he goes, but that isn't the case. We need to get creative this game.
I actually think Reeves matches up pretty well on Moss. Jacques is one of the fastest guys on our team, and yes he does gift up the soft underneath throw once in a while, but that's not really what Moss is good at. I personally like that match up, although Reeves could use some help.

But yes, getting pressure is the key to this game. And I think that Jay Ratliff will be huge, especially if Dan Koppen is out again.
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