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Old 02-07-2007, 01:07 AM    (permalink
yourfavestoner
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Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller
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Originally Posted by cunningham06
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Originally Posted by Gribble
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Originally Posted by someone447
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Originally Posted by 49ersfan_87
Favorite 5

1. Steve Young
2. Joe Montana
3. John Elway
4. Doug Flutie
5. Rich Gannon

Top 5

1. Joe Montana
2. John Elway
3. Johnny Unitas

The rest is too jumbled...marino, tarkenton, young, bradshaw, etc. Not counting current guys like brady, manning, and favre.
Bradshaw shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence with those guys.
Well, he won 4 Super Bowls.
Yes, and playing with one of the most talented defensive units ever assembled has nothing to do with those wins? Big deal he was in a good situation during his career, doesn't mean he was the best.
He still had to play QB all those games and win.


Elway had a pretty stout defense.. Romanowski, Neil Smith, Atwater, Traylor and Trevor Pryce... Were some of my favorite guys growing up.

Elway also had, Shannon Sharpe, Terell Davis, Tom Nalen, Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey. Pretty solid Lineup there.

Not to mention Reliable kickers in Rouen and Elam.


Farve Had arguably the greatest DE of all time.. And Santana Dotson was no slouch either, dude was massive and a monster player.

He also had Mark Chmura, Antonio Freeman, Desmond Howard(Who won the SB) and Dorsey Levens Although not HOF'ers .. no slouches.

If anyone wants to make the "Has no talent around them" SB comment, should be Marino... Mark Clayton and Mark Duper... both had 1300+ Yards recieving...

Elway also took his Broncos earlier to the SB.. but His stats were about as Bad as Roethlisbergers were.

Elway in 1990 threw 10 for 26 for 108 yards and 2 INTs.
Elway in 1988 threw 14 for 38 for 257 yards, 1 Td and 3 INTs.


It wasn't like he did amazing in the superbowl all the time. I still respect him and think he was a great QB, but there's more to it...

SuperBowl X:
Bradshaw: 9 for 19, 209 yards 2 TD's Better than Elways....

SuperBowl XIII:
Bradshaw: 17 for 30, 318 yards, 4 Td's, 1 Int.. again...

Superbowl XIV:
Bradshaw: 14 for 21, 309 yards, 2Td's, 3 INT's... again better than Elways.. in a time before the rules that opened up the pass Game.

I think you guys severely underrated Bradshaw and Pittsburgh Qb's in General because our Normal Preference to run first.
Keep in mind, though, that Sterling Sharpe was probably the most dominant receiver in the NFL for a few years before he got hurt.
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Old 02-07-2007, 01:09 AM    (permalink
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Favre has never had a great supporting cast on offense. The year they won the Super Bowl, he made that offense great. The defense was great, they are one of the most underrated defenses in league history. Statistically, they were just as good as the 85 bears. 10 years from now, I bet you can't name a single person on the Packers offense, other than Favre. Just like its very tough to name a person from the broncos offense other than elway(from the 80s, when he took them to the super bowl.) No one did more with less than he did.
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Old 02-07-2007, 01:30 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetedginnshow
Elway was definitely better, but the number of HOFers they had on their team shouldn't be an indication, especially with all the snubs and terribly underrated players there are out there. But, you can compare them to the teams of the time, in which case the Steelers were vastly superior to their opposition opposed to Elway's teams (granted, they were exceptional as well).
3/5 of elway's teams were not exceptional.

Quote:
But in all actuality, the only "great" QB to never be surrounded by a great supporting cast is probably Peyton, and possibly Marino. That I can think of anyway.
i have no idea what you're trying to say. if you're implying that peyton had as little talent as marino... well, i'm curious how you came to that conclusion.
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Old 02-07-2007, 02:23 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
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Originally Posted by thetedginnshow
Elway was definitely better, but the number of HOFers they had on their team shouldn't be an indication, especially with all the snubs and terribly underrated players there are out there. But, you can compare them to the teams of the time, in which case the Steelers were vastly superior to their opposition opposed to Elway's teams (granted, they were exceptional as well).
3/5 of elway's teams were not exceptional.

Quote:
But in all actuality, the only "great" QB to never be surrounded by a great supporting cast is probably Peyton, and possibly Marino. That I can think of anyway.
i have no idea what you're trying to say. if you're implying that peyton had as little talent as marino... well, i'm curious how you came to that conclusion.
I think Elway's teams got underrated considerably, but I don't imagine that argument getting anywhere.

As for comparing Marino and Manning's teams, well, no, that's not what I was saying at all.
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Old 02-07-2007, 07:47 AM    (permalink
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One thing people forget. Bradshaw made the players around him better. Very true that there are alot of hall of fame guys on the Steelers, but another qb on that team wasn't the one getting them the ball. I guess for all you Elway lovers out there, he just couldn't nake the players around him better. Also your argument for saying he had nobody around him holds no water. He didn't play defense and last time I checked it was a team effort to get to the superbowl. Isn't that what you Elway people are saying? If he was so great, he wouldn't have stunk the joint up in his superbowl appearences. Even the one in 97 when he had everything around him, he still stunk. I'm not saying that Elway isn't a hall of famer, but don't even try to play the crying game against Bradshaw. Fact is, Bradshaw was a better big game qb and history has shown it. Bradshaw 4-0 in superbowls, Elway 2-3. Nuff said.
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Old 02-07-2007, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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ELWAY DIDNT HAVE A SINGLE HALL OF FAMER ON HIS TEAM IN ANY OF THOSE SUPER BOWLS!!!! BRADSHAW HAD 8 HALL OF FAME TEAMMATES!!! WHAT ABOUT THAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?

Stoner, earlier in the thread I said that Favre had one great player on offense, Sterling Sharpe. But Sharpe got hurt before his MVP years.
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Old 02-07-2007, 08:37 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetedginnshow
Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:
Originally Posted by thetedginnshow
Elway was definitely better, but the number of HOFers they had on their team shouldn't be an indication, especially with all the snubs and terribly underrated players there are out there. But, you can compare them to the teams of the time, in which case the Steelers were vastly superior to their opposition opposed to Elway's teams (granted, they were exceptional as well).
3/5 of elway's teams were not exceptional.

Quote:
But in all actuality, the only "great" QB to never be surrounded by a great supporting cast is probably Peyton, and possibly Marino. That I can think of anyway.
i have no idea what you're trying to say. if you're implying that peyton had as little talent as marino... well, i'm curious how you came to that conclusion.
I think Elway's teams got underrated considerably, but I don't imagine that argument getting anywhere.

As for comparing Marino and Manning's teams, well, no, that's not what I was saying at all.
elway's 97 and 98 super bowl teams were underrated. his late 80's and early 90's teams were most definitely not. vance johnson, mark jackson and ricky nattiel weren't making anyone worry during game planning, and the broncos running game (for most of that period) was atrocious.

Quote:
the only "great" QB to never be surrounded by a great supporting cast is probably Peyton
i see no other way that can be interpreted than with you saying that peyton has no talent around him.
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Old 02-07-2007, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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Top 5 All-time Quarterbacks
1. Montana - Just the best ever
2. Favre - 3 MVP's, almost every record, Got a ring, and the toghest man alive
3. Elway
4. Marino
5. Unitas

Sorry but no list can compare to that top 5
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Old 02-07-2007, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9
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Originally Posted by thetedginnshow
Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:
Originally Posted by thetedginnshow
Elway was definitely better, but the number of HOFers they had on their team shouldn't be an indication, especially with all the snubs and terribly underrated players there are out there. But, you can compare them to the teams of the time, in which case the Steelers were vastly superior to their opposition opposed to Elway's teams (granted, they were exceptional as well).
3/5 of elway's teams were not exceptional.

Quote:
But in all actuality, the only "great" QB to never be surrounded by a great supporting cast is probably Peyton, and possibly Marino. That I can think of anyway.
i have no idea what you're trying to say. if you're implying that peyton had as little talent as marino... well, i'm curious how you came to that conclusion.
I think Elway's teams got underrated considerably, but I don't imagine that argument getting anywhere.

As for comparing Marino and Manning's teams, well, no, that's not what I was saying at all.
elway's 97 and 98 super bowl teams were underrated. his late 80's and early 90's teams were most definitely not. vance johnson, mark jackson and ricky nattiel weren't making anyone worry during game planning, and the broncos running game (for most of that period) was atrocious.
They actually had some pretty good defenses. Nothing like the Steelers or Cowboys or whomever, but certainly more than they're being given credit for. But I don't see that point getting anywhere.

Quote:
Quote:
the only "great" QB to never be surrounded by a great supporting cast is probably Peyton
i see no other way that can be interpreted than with you saying that peyton has no talent around him.
I actually don't see what you can't comprehend about this. I am saying he has considerably less talent on his teams opposed to most other HOF/HOF-worthy QBs beyond Marino, but that's it.
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Old 02-07-2007, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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Who did Favre have on offense? Favre will have played with 1 hall of famer in his career. Same with Elway, and Elways was only for a year. Favres was on defense. I would take the Colts offense over anything the Packers or the Broncos ever had on offense.
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Old 02-07-2007, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetedginnshow
Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:
Originally Posted by thetedginnshow
Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:
Originally Posted by thetedginnshow
Elway was definitely better, but the number of HOFers they had on their team shouldn't be an indication, especially with all the snubs and terribly underrated players there are out there. But, you can compare them to the teams of the time, in which case the Steelers were vastly superior to their opposition opposed to Elway's teams (granted, they were exceptional as well).
3/5 of elway's teams were not exceptional.

Quote:
But in all actuality, the only "great" QB to never be surrounded by a great supporting cast is probably Peyton, and possibly Marino. That I can think of anyway.
i have no idea what you're trying to say. if you're implying that peyton had as little talent as marino... well, i'm curious how you came to that conclusion.
I think Elway's teams got underrated considerably, but I don't imagine that argument getting anywhere.

As for comparing Marino and Manning's teams, well, no, that's not what I was saying at all.
elway's 97 and 98 super bowl teams were underrated. his late 80's and early 90's teams were most definitely not. vance johnson, mark jackson and ricky nattiel weren't making anyone worry during game planning, and the broncos running game (for most of that period) was atrocious.
They actually had some pretty good defenses. Nothing like the Steelers or Cowboys or whomever, but certainly more than they're being given credit for. But I don't see that point getting anywhere.

Quote:
Quote:
the only "great" QB to never be surrounded by a great supporting cast is probably Peyton
i see no other way that can be interpreted than with you saying that peyton has no talent around him.
I actually don't see what you can't comprehend about this. I am saying he has considerably less talent on his teams opposed to most other HOF/HOF-worthy QBs beyond Marino, but that's it.
Peyton has had a very talented team around him in recent years. He has a future HOF'er to throw to in Marvin Harrison, he had a very good RB in Edge, Addai is coming along as well, and not to mention one of the best offensive lines over the last decade. His offensive line is unbelievable, especially during the regular season, they have collapsed at points in the playoffs, but they are a very good group. Reggie Wayne is one of the top 3 #2 receivers in the NFL. His offense has been pretty stacked. He hasn't had the benefit of having a good defense to back him up like some other HOF qb's. The Marino comparison isn't that far off, they were similar defensively (not including this year during the regular season), both decent units, more bend but don't break than anything else. Marino had no running game, and while the Mark's bro's were good, they were no Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne. Also Peyton actually has a run game.
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Old 02-07-2007, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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1) Montana
2) Marino
3) Elway
4) Unitis
5) Manning
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Old 02-08-2007, 01:15 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51
Favorite 5

1)Steve Young
2)Bernie Kosar (how can anyone not love Bernie?)
3)Donovan McNabb
4)John Elway
5)Charlie Frye

Best 5

1)Rex Grossman
2)Everyone else
How'd ol' Rex do in the big game?
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Old 02-08-2007, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
1. Peyton Manning
2.a) Dan Marino
2.b) Joe Montana
3. Bret Favre
4. John Elway
5. Steve Young

I've seen em' all and Peyton is the greatest I've ever seen.

As a football player Unitas was overrated imo, exceptional for his time but, he shouldn't be on this list. Still one of my old favs.
Manning has always been blessed with a great off. while he was in his prime. Favre probably never played with a HOF off player (though he did have a great def to help). Elway also didnt always have great off.
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Old 02-08-2007, 10:26 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neko4
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
1. Peyton Manning
2.a) Dan Marino
2.b) Joe Montana
3. Bret Favre
4. John Elway
5. Steve Young

I've seen em' all and Peyton is the greatest I've ever seen.

As a football player Unitas was overrated imo, exceptional for his time but, he shouldn't be on this list. Still one of my old favs.
Manning has always been blessed with a great off. while he was in his prime. Favre probably never played with a HOF off player (though he did have a great def to help). Elway also didnt always have great off.
sterling sharpe would've been with a few more seasons.
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Old 02-09-2007, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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Best Of All-Time

1. Johnny Unitas
2. Dan Marino
3. Joe Montana
4. Brett Favre
5. Peyton Manning

Anyone who doesn't have Unitas in the top five shouldn't be allowed to post anymore. Football existed before 82 believe it or not.
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Old 02-09-2007, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:
Originally Posted by neko4
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
1. Peyton Manning
2.a) Dan Marino
2.b) Joe Montana
3. Bret Favre
4. John Elway
5. Steve Young

I've seen em' all and Peyton is the greatest I've ever seen.

As a football player Unitas was overrated imo, exceptional for his time but, he shouldn't be on this list. Still one of my old favs.
Manning has always been blessed with a great off. while he was in his prime. Favre probably never played with a HOF off player (though he did have a great def to help). Elway also didnt always have great off.
sterling sharpe would've been with a few more seasons.
I have no doubt Sterling Sharpe was a HOF caliber player, but Favre only played with him a few years. Favre's prime came after sharpes injury.
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Old 02-09-2007, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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1. Brett Favre
2. Jon Elway
3. Montana (not one of my favorites)
4. Peyton Manning
5. Steve Young
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Old 02-09-2007, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ewing
Best Of All-Time

1. Johnny Unitas
2. Dan Marino
3. Joe Montana
4. Brett Favre
5. Peyton Manning

Anyone who doesn't have Unitas in the top five shouldn't be allowed to post anymore. Football existed before 82 believe it or not.
Takin' a page out of njx's book, but, aren't people allowed to have there own opinions nowadays?
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Old 02-09-2007, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Best Of All-Time

1. Johnny Unitas
2. Dan Marino
3. Joe Montana
4. Brett Favre
5. Peyton Manning

Anyone who doesn't have Unitas in the top five shouldn't be allowed to post anymore. Football existed before 82 believe it or not.
Takin' a page out of njx's book, but, aren't people allowed to have there own opinions nowadays?
nothing from that post came from my "book", but nice try to get a quick shot in.
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Old 02-10-2007, 08:18 AM    (permalink
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1. John Elway
2. Joe Montana
3. J. Unitas
4. Dan Marino
5. Steve Young
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Old 02-10-2007, 08:21 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by neko4
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
1. Peyton Manning
2.a) Dan Marino
2.b) Joe Montana
3. Bret Favre
4. John Elway
5. Steve Young

I've seen em' all and Peyton is the greatest I've ever seen.

As a football player Unitas was overrated imo, exceptional for his time but, he shouldn't be on this list. Still one of my old favs.
Manning has always been blessed with a great off. while he was in his prime. Favre probably never played with a HOF off player (though he did have a great def to help). Elway also didnt always have great off.
Good gawd if Elway, Marino, Favre, Montana, Young, etc....had Edge, Harrison, Wayne year after year they would have multiple titles by now. And they damn sure wouldn't have gagged up playoff games against that Pats and Steelers team....and they wouldn't have had their defense carry them to a title while they threw pick after pick. They would have done most of the heavy lifting with their quarterbacking.
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Old 02-10-2007, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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Montana may have had an even better supporting cast on offense than manning. And he damn sure had a better defense.
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Old 02-10-2007, 12:05 PM    (permalink
 
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Montana may have had an even better supporting cast on offense than manning. And he damn sure had a better defense.
Elway also had 6 pro bowlers on offense with him.
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Old 02-10-2007, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
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Originally Posted by someone447
Montana may have had an even better supporting cast on offense than manning. And he damn sure had a better defense.
Elway also had 6 pro bowlers on offense with him.
HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO SAY THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ELWAY HAVING NO SUPPORTING CAST IT IS THE 80S!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone admits his super bowl teams were great. But hell, he was 37-38 years old by then. When Bobby Humphrey is the best player on your offense other than you for the greater part of a decade, that is a problem.
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