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Old 03-04-2008, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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Messi injured again. What a shame. World football hasn't seen talented player like Messi since the days of Maradona. I am hoping Barca finds a way to go through CL quarters without him, and that he'll be ready for semi-finals.
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Old 03-04-2008, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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Great game today, but Arsenal advances to the Semi's...nice.

I must say, in the two games, between Flamini and Co. Arsenal really shut down Kaka and frustrated the hell out of him, as noted by his yellow card, they definitely earned the win.
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Old 03-04-2008, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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Great game today, but Arsenal advances to the Semi's...nice.

I must say, in the two games, between Flamini and Co. Arsenal really shut down Kaka and frustrated the hell out of him, as noted by his yellow card, they definitely earned the win.
Yeah, he really lost his cool towards the end of the match.

I wonder if Arsenal will consider starting Theo Walcott in the upcoming Champions league matches, he's really been a spark plug for them in the two games against Milan.
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Old 03-04-2008, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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I watched my high school's soccer game today and realised that I cannot watch soccer without getting really pissed.
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JBalla is mormon, so naturally he assumes that whenever you get one marriage done, another two or five are in the works.

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Old 03-04-2008, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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I watched my high school's soccer game today and realised that I cannot watch soccer without getting really pissed.
I realized I can't read/listen to people bashing soccer and hockey without getting really pissed.
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Old 03-04-2008, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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I realized I can't read/listen to people bashing soccer and hockey without getting really pissed.
I meant I got carried away and was yelling. then I chose to leave.
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Old 03-30-2008, 04:37 AM    (permalink
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Well the soccer draft seems to have finally died and I need somewhere to talk about the EPL, so this thread is getting revived.

United were amazing, Arsenal were amazing in the 2nd half and is there a better player than Ronaldo on the planet?
I think not: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4m5-gTz4MA
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Old 03-30-2008, 08:53 AM    (permalink
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I <3 Ronaldo.
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Old 03-30-2008, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Yea, no one really comes remotely close to Ronaldo at this point.

My top 5 would be something like this, this is very rough though.

1) Cristiano Ronaldo
.
.
.
.
.
.
2) Steven Gerrard
3) Kaka
4) Zlatan Ibrahimovic
5) Lionel Messi
6) Ruud Van Nistlerooy
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Old 03-30-2008, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nvot9 View Post
Yea, no one really comes remotely close to Ronaldo at this point.

My top 5 would be something like this, this is very rough though.

1) Cristiano Ronaldo
.
.
.
.
.
.
2) Steven Gerrard
3) Kaka
4) Zlatan Ibrahimovic
5) Lionel Messi
6) Ruud Van Nistlerooy
No love for Torres? Also Ibrahimovic far too high for my liking, but meh.
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Old 03-30-2008, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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No love for Torres? Also Ibrahimovic far too high for my liking, but meh.
I love Torres...I think he's one of the best pure strikers in the world, maybe only behind Totti and Ruud, but at this point, I'm gunna have to see him continue his scoring dominance, I mean if I included Torres in my top5, what would stop me from including Adebayor? I just want to see Torres be more complete I guess is what I'm saying.

And what's what the no love for Ibra from you? :) I think he's hands down a top 5 player. Best forward/striker in the world in my opinion, nobody can touch him. He's so complete on the offensive side, he does everything so well. He plays with the vision and technical abilities (passing and such) like a central midfielder, but he's got the pace, moves, and finishing that rival that of cristiano.
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Old 03-30-2008, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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And what's what the no love for Ibra from you? :) I think he's hands down a top 5 player. Best forward/striker in the world in my opinion, nobody can touch him. He's so complete on the offensive side, he does everything so well. He plays with the vision and technical abilities (passing and such) like a central midfielder, but he's got the pace, moves, and finishing that rival that of cristiano.
I'd like to see him do it in the Champions League purely and simply, IMO he does his work in the theird best league in Europe. Put him in the EPL or Spain and he wouldn't look half the player, quite frankly he rarely got a sniff against Liverpool when he played us whilst at Juventus and Inter, 4 games in total. I also dispute the fact he is a great finisher, I'd even go so far as to say he is a little wasteful. He wouldn't crack my top 5 strikers.
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Old 03-30-2008, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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No love for Torres? Also Ibrahimovic far too high for my liking, but meh.
Torres is on fire at the moment but he shouldn't be classed as top 5 yet, maybe top 10 at a push. There's plenty of players who are on a similar level to him, when on form.

I think Ibra deserves his spot but i reckon van Nistelrooy is too high in nvots rankings.
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Old 03-30-2008, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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I'd like to see him do it in the Champions League purely and simply, IMO he does his work in the theird best league in Europe. Put him in the EPL or Spain and he wouldn't look half the player, quite frankly he rarely got a sniff against Liverpool when he played us whilst at Juventus and Inter, 4 games in total. I also dispute the fact he is a great finisher, I'd even go so far as to say he is a little wasteful. He wouldn't crack my top 5 strikers.
Bleh that's bush....why do you weigh so much stock into the Champions League tourny as if it's A) the only tourny and B) the only games that matter. There's national games, league games, league torney's...so many games to base ability off of yet you restrict your judging to the champions league. Perhaps he had a bad stretch, perhaps he had a tweaked ankle or w/e. The most important thing is how he does in the long run. Serie A is the third best league in the world? Serie A has some of the worlds best teams. I would 100% rate that league over La Liga (I'm assuming this was your 2nd hardest league) and only just behind the EPL, and just because the EPL is the most competitive and most watched league, doesn't mean all it's players are the best and that they constantly churn out world class talent, I mean their are plenty of players in the EPL who have no right playing soccer at a pro level...namely every single player on Derby and Bolton lol (aside from Savage). Since 1990, only TWO EPL teams have won the champions league, Liverpool in 2005 and Man U in 1999. AC Milan has dominated on a European scale the last 5 or so years, Inter Milan has probably the worlds best club defense and maybe (one of) the best team in the world. Roma has been dominant as of late, Juventes looks to be one of the worlds best teams since being brought back to Serie 1. Florentina is a great team.

Zlatan...wasteful? First off, he had 5 goals in this years Champions League...how is that underwhelming? Second, in 28 club appearances in Serie A, he's got 17 goals and 11 assists....that's wasteful? I'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the world who matches that efficiency this year....

and I'm not being mean, this is just my unintentional angry typing :)
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Old 03-30-2008, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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You don't think that in 28 games someone like say Adebayor, Drogba or Torres could score 17 goals?

Also with regards to why I rate the Champions League performances over say the Serie A? The standard of the teams you play is much higher, and that predominantly is where the best really stand out. Like a Zidane in his prime, or Gerrard who constantly takes over games. For me Ibrahimovic never does that. I cited the Liverpool games as I feel they are a talented defense and he clearly struggled, and more often than not he does tend to struggle against top opposition.

He has 5 goals which no doubt is impressive, but he scored...

2 against PSV (Hardly the best defence ever)
2 against CSKA Moscow (Who conceded 14 in 6 group games)
1 against Fenerbahce (Who conceded 5 in the first knockout round and have a very poor keeper)

Hardly the best opposition. In my opinion he very much is someone who fills his boots against average and good opposition, but just doesn't do it against the best. He's good, I don't want to seem like I think he sucks or anything, but for me he's not top 5 in the world.
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Old 03-30-2008, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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You don't think that in 28 games someone like say Adebayor, Drogba or Torres could score 17 goals?
Possibly, but only in the goals category, you're forgetting he's also got 11 assists to go with that...so no, I don't think any player in the world could get 17 and 11 in 28 games...or at least I'd be very hard pressed to find one. Possibly only Gerrard? But as far as scoring that many...yea I think those three could score that many goals in that amount of time, but all of those three are considered some of the best in the game, and that amount of goals clearly puts them at the top of the stats board as far as goals go.


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He has 5 goals which no doubt is impressive, but he scored...

2 against PSV (Hardly the best defence ever)
2 against CSKA Moscow (Who conceded 14 in 6 group games)
1 against Fenerbahce (Who conceded 5 in the first knockout round and have a very poor keeper)
I understand your point, his goals weren't against top competition...you still have to score the goals, how many people can say that they scored 5 goals this year? Don't look up the teams they did it against, just tell me how many scored 5 or more goals...the competition doesn't matter, the teams still relies on him to score those goals and if he doesn't, they don't win...goals are goals. Did you know Cristiano Ronaldo only has FOUR of his TWENTY SIX goals in the EPL against the top 5 teams: Everton, Arsenal, Liverpool, and Chelsea....and 2 of those came against Everton, yet that doesn't change anyone's opinion on him being the undoubted top player in the world...which I agree with, it shouldn't matter.
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Old 03-30-2008, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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Messi injured again. What a shame. World football hasn't seen talented player like Messi since the days of Maradona. I am hoping Barca finds a way to go through CL quarters without him, and that he'll be ready for semi-finals.
I'd say Ronaldo is a pretty damn talented player that has stepped his game up to a completely different level. Messi is special but in terms of saying we haven't seen a Maradona lately, I think Cristiano is doing just fine.
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Old 03-30-2008, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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I'd say Ronaldo is a pretty damn talented player that has stepped his game up to a completely different level. Messi is special but in terms of saying we haven't seen a Maradona lately, I think Cristiano is doing just fine.
And we haven't seen Messi really play either...I think he's injured more oft than he's on the pitch.
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Old 03-30-2008, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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Possibly, but only in the goals category, you're forgetting he's also got 11 assists to go with that...so no, I don't think any player in the world could get 17 and 11 in 28 games...or at least I'd be very hard pressed to find one. Possibly only Gerrard? But as far as scoring that many...yea I think those three could score that many goals in that amount of time, but all of those three are considered some of the best in the game, and that amount of goals clearly puts them at the top of the stats board as far as goals go.




I understand your point, his goals weren't against top competition...you still have to score the goals, how many people can say that they scored 5 goals this year? Don't look up the teams they did it against, just tell me how many scored 5 or more goals...the competition doesn't matter, the teams still relies on him to score those goals and if he doesn't, they don't win...goals are goals. Did you know Cristiano Ronaldo only has FOUR of his TWENTY SIX goals in the EPL against the top 5 teams: Everton, Arsenal, Liverpool, and Chelsea....and 2 of those came against Everton, yet that doesn't change anyone's opinion on him being the undoubted top player in the world...which I agree with, it shouldn't matter.
I did know that, and for me again, Ronaldo wouldn't be the best in the world, but I took him early in the draft as he filled a problem position for me and I knew he would be an easy vote getter. He's amazing no doubt, but substance over style for me, I think a lot of my outlook has to do with being a Liverpool fan, our teams have never been built on talents like a Ronaldo, Ibra etc, just good players who can pass and do the fundamentals well. I guess I just have a weird outlook on soccer, don't worry, I argue with people a lot, and am generally in the minority.
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Old 03-30-2008, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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I did know that, and for me again, Ronaldo wouldn't be the best in the world, but I took him early in the draft as he filled a problem position for me and I knew he would be an easy vote getter. He's amazing no doubt, but substance over style for me, I think a lot of my outlook has to do with being a Liverpool fan, our teams have never been built on talents like a Ronaldo, Ibra etc, just good players who can pass and do the fundamentals well. I guess I just have a weird outlook on soccer, don't worry, I argue with people a lot, and am generally in the minority.
Na, I know exactly what you mean...in fact, I wish I had more players like that on my team!!!

That said, just out of pure curiosity, what would a top 5 or top 10 list of yours look like for right now....of all ages?
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Old 03-30-2008, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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Hmmm, I'm not entirely sure to be perfectly honest. This is by no means definitive but...

1. Kaka (by a fair amount as well)
2. Steven Gerrard
3. Lionel Messi
4. Cristiano Ronaldo
5. Wayne Rooney
6. Franck Ribery
7. Fernando Torres
8. Andres Iniesta
9. Javier Mascherano
10. Didier Drogba

That list would probably change in the next 5 mins or so knowing me, it's really really tough I think to rank players as a lot depends on the system, team around the player etc... It also really saddens me that there are no defenders on the list, but quite frankly I didn't think there was one worthy of it, defending and tackling are slowly dying...
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Old 03-30-2008, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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These are my comments on that list....

Kaka - so hard to judge him, I feel like he's the best offensive player in the world hands down at times, and then other times he just is frustrating to watch

Gerrard - I agree, I absolutely LOVE his game, best OVERALL player in the world

Lionel Messi - I don't have him above Cristiano, he doesn't do enough other stuff to make up for his lack of goals COMPARED to Cristiano

Wayne Rooney - Inconsistent in my eyes, but when he's on, he's possibly the best finisher in the world with incredible touch, he's not a top 5 for me, but def a top 5 striker and def a top 15

Ribery - Love his hustle, love his heart, love his game...some say he's the next Zidane for France, I don't, I don't think he comes close to a top 10, doesn't have the same pure talent that others do..

Torres - About right for him, def a top 10 player at least, not sure where I'd put him within that though

Iniesta - Eh, he's still too raw for me to consider him top 10 and as unbiased as I can say this, Cesc far and away dominates Iniesta...

Mascherano - Extremely underated, I think he deserves this spot

Drogba - The flip side to Mascherano, I find him to be slightly overrated although it's hard not to have him somewhere in your top 20

Here's how my top 10 would look, and as you said for yours, I'd prolly change mine within a few minutes...I already changed Zlatan

1) Cristiano Ronaldo - It's hard to ignore what he does, the worlds greatest goal scorer in a game that relies on scoring goals, should be ranked the worlds best player.

2) Steven Gerrard - Worlds best overall and most complete player.

3) Kaka - Tremendous player, pace that rivals Cristiano's, he's too inconsistent too be 1 or 2, but not inconsistent enough to drop out of the top 5.

4) Lionel Messi - Just a fabulous young striker with all the tools, he's got pace, touch, accuracy, he's a playmaker, just an incredible player and it's fun to watch him lead a fast break.

5) Francesco Totti - I'll get hate for this pick, and I prolly should as I'm not loving it, but Totti's still got it. No one in the game can do what he does, I think he's still one of, if not the most complete offensive players in the game and the biggest playmaker we've seen in the last 10-15 years.

6) Samuel Eto'o - He never gets any love, but he deserves a bunch of it. Despite an injured season, Eto'o is the world's best striker. One of the best pure goal scorers, the fastest player in the world, just so talented.

7) Zlatan Ibrahimovic - Read some of my above posts to see why I love him.

8) Fernando Torres - Came alive this year. We all saw it with Athletico Madrid, but 21 goals in 28 appearances for Liverpool was not expected. Top 3 forward.

9) Javier Mascherano - Best defensive midfielder in the world deserves a spot in the top 10.

10) Ruud Van Nistlerooy - One of the games finest goal scorers and best forwards ever is still going as strong as ever for La Liga's best team.

On the bubble: Cesc Fabregas, David Villa, Carlos Tevez, Wayne Rooney, Gianluigi Buffon, Iker Casillas, and Alessandro Nesta.
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Old 03-30-2008, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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Wow quite a debate you two have going. Off the top of my head I would say:
1. Cristiano Ronaldo
2. Lionel Messi
3. Kaka
4. Steven Gerrard
5. Ronaldinho
6. Alessandro Nesta
7. Zlatan Ibrahimovic
8. Cesc Fabregas
9. Wayne Rooney
10. Francesco Totti

One thing I would say is that its hard to rank the defensive players. Having said that I don't rate Mascherano as highly as you guys. Good player but I don't think he's that much better than most players at his position.
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Old 03-30-2008, 07:10 PM    (permalink
wiscbadgerfootball
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I never get to watch any soccer games unfortunately because I love the sport, so out of curiosity.. what is up with Ronaldinho? He is my favorite player and has an immense amount of talent but I don't see him in any top 10 lists.. why has he fallen off the face of the earth?
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Old 03-31-2008, 05:10 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiscbadgerfootball View Post
I never get to watch any soccer games unfortunately because I love the sport, so out of curiosity.. what is up with Ronaldinho? He is my favorite player and has an immense amount of talent but I don't see him in any top 10 lists.. why has he fallen off the face of the earth?
He's just been off form recently, especially by his own standards. He wasn't even starting for Barca at one point but he's still been able to produce moments of magic at times. There's now loads of speculation about him leaving Barca in the summer but imo if he regains his form (which he should) he is easily top 10 in the world.
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