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Old 11-02-2007, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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nrc, if you have an unfortunate parent who taught you to root for the Cowboys, that's fine. Otherwise, you have lost a lot of respect from me.
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Old 11-02-2007, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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The Eagles will need to score at least 24 points to win this game. Against the aggressive and talented Dallas D, I'm not sure how possible it is...
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Old 11-02-2007, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Im surprised at how so many of you are sleeping on the Eagles. They will not be an easy out at all. Especially at the Linc. And Weapon X will be back. We all know he's the anchor that holds that defense together. Its no surprise that their defense wasn't the same without him.

Not sure if Lito will play though.
Last I heard Dawkins was only going to see about 50% of the defensive snaps.

Staying on the injury conversation...it looks like Anthony Henry will see his first action since spraining his ankle 4 weeks ago. He won't play alot but will see time in the dime defensive packages...(which dallas actually tends to use more than the nickel)
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Old 11-02-2007, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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The Eagles will need to score at least 24 points to win this game. Against the aggressive and talented Dallas D, I'm not sure how possible it is...
Well maybe some timely injuries can happen before the game...I got a good chuckle at this comment...

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And if you think Philly folks are bad for a noon game, just imagine how crazy they can get when they have all day to get "good and liquored up," as T.O. put it.
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Old 11-02-2007, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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I know is not that easy, but the Eagles problem is on offense not on defense. By the way, I am one of Northeast Cowboys fan.
Why brother...whyd you do it? lol j/p

no offense, just most cowboy fans ive come across in real life remind me an awful lot like yankee fans. and thats not a good thing.

but thats just over here, and of course it doesn't speak for everyone. so i won't stereotype all of ya. just most ;)
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Old 11-02-2007, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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Last I heard Dawkins was only going to see about 50% of the defensive snaps.

Staying on the injury conversation...it looks like Anthony Henry will see his first action since spraining his ankle 4 weeks ago. He won't play alot but will see time in the dime defensive packages...(which dallas actually tends to use more than the nickel)
Yeah i was gonna ask you guys about that, but ive been shying away from this board bc of alot of nonesense going on recently.

is there a specific reason for it? is it used only on 3rd and long, or even on say 3rd and 5 situations?
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Old 11-02-2007, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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Yeah i was gonna ask you guys about that, but ive been shying away from this board bc of alot of nonesense going on recently.

is there a specific reason for it? is it used only on 3rd and long, or even on say 3rd and 5 situations?
By moving into the Dime we get another safety on the field....and Roy gets to play his natural position of Rover. Not only this but you have to factor that Burnett and Carp have both been knicked up this year. Basically it puts Watkins on the field playing the "don't get beat" type of coverage...and works into our strengths of some of our better players. We basically use it when it's not 3rd and lets say 3. It has also mattered what team we have faced...basically if you could run for a first down we'll stay in nickel...but if it's 3rd and 5...that is in favor of a passing situation so you'll see our dime package on the field. The reason for the changeup between the nickel and dime packages are that in the Dime Roy is often 6-8 yards off the ball...if teams were in managable running situations we wouldn't be able to fill the gap quick enough...

We have also got exotic in some of our dime packages. One time we lined up Ware and Spencer in the 7 tech...Ellis in the 5 tech...Ratliff in the 3 tech opposite of Ellis...then had Carp sit on the LOS in the A gap...and Roy sit in the B/C gap between Raliff and Ware...Pretty crazy to see that many bodies on the LOS. One of the few times all year we've brought 6 guys.
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Old 11-02-2007, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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Why brother...whyd you do it? lol j/p

no offense, just most cowboy fans ive come across in real life remind me an awful lot like yankee fans. and thats not a good thing.

but thats just over here, and of course it doesn't speak for everyone. so i won't stereotype all of ya. just most ;)
To tell you the truth, I am also a Yankees and the Knicks fan for life. Non of my father, brothers are sports fans. The year I come to the states in late 1975, I start to watching football and the Cowboys won the SP in that year. Once I a fan on that team, I won't change. I see nothing wrong with that.
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Old 11-02-2007, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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I guess you have no frame of reference, so it's kind of excusable. As long as you haven't changed, I guess it's okay.
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Old 11-03-2007, 12:09 AM    (permalink
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By moving into the Dime we get another safety on the field....and Roy gets to play his natural position of Rover. .....................then had Carp sit on the LOS in the A gap...and Roy sit in the B/C gap between Raliff and Ware...Pretty crazy to see that many bodies on the LOS. One of the few times all year we've brought 6 guys.
Linebacker.
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Old 11-03-2007, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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Why brother...whyd you do it? lol j/p

no offense, just most cowboy fans ive come across in real life remind me an awful lot like yankee fans. and thats not a good thing.

but thats just over here, and of course it doesn't speak for everyone. so i won't stereotype all of ya. just most ;)
BBD,

I don't mean to bust your chops but New Yorkers know baseball much more than football IMHO. New Yorkers are actually quite smart baseball fans ... particularly Yankees fans.

On football ...... Cowboy fans I agree are a little soft (Nationwide) but in general Southerners and Texans know their football pretty darn good. You don't pack 14,000 for a HS football game unless you spend some time at it. Somewhat like PA, Ohio and Michigan up north.

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Old 11-03-2007, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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By moving into the Dime we get another safety on the field....and Roy gets to play his natural position of Rover. Not only this but you have to factor that Burnett and Carp have both been knicked up this year. Basically it puts Watkins on the field playing the "don't get beat" type of coverage...and works into our strengths of some of our better players. We basically use it when it's not 3rd and lets say 3. It has also mattered what team we have faced...basically if you could run for a first down we'll stay in nickel...but if it's 3rd and 5...that is in favor of a passing situation so you'll see our dime package on the field. The reason for the changeup between the nickel and dime packages are that in the Dime Roy is often 6-8 yards off the ball...if teams were in managable running situations we wouldn't be able to fill the gap quick enough...

We have also got exotic in some of our dime packages. One time we lined up Ware and Spencer in the 7 tech...Ellis in the 5 tech...Ratliff in the 3 tech opposite of Ellis...then had Carp sit on the LOS in the A gap...and Roy sit in the B/C gap between Raliff and Ware...Pretty crazy to see that many bodies on the LOS. One of the few times all year we've brought 6 guys.
Yeah, I really like the fact that Watkins is seeing more playing time. I know he's FS in those sets, but I personally like him as a SS more because he has the wingspan to cover TEs in man coverage. He can do both quite honestly, I just like trying to match him up with the TE is all.

I don't really recall you guys ever running dime last year. I don't see alot of Cover 2 out of your sets either this year.
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Old 11-03-2007, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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To tell you the truth, I am also a Yankees and the Knicks fan for life. Non of my father, brothers are sports fans. The year I come to the states in late 1975, I start to watching football and the Cowboys won the SP in that year. Once I a fan on that team, I won't change. I see nothing wrong with that.
Well, I guess I'll give you a pass. Its just a little awkward that you were a fan of all those teams when they won championships around that time frame. But since you stuck with them for that long, I guess you warrant a pass.

By the way, Landry's Flex 4-3 is one of my favorite historical defensive schemes of all time.
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Old 11-03-2007, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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BBD,

I don't mean to bust your chops but New Yorkers know baseball much more than football IMHO. New Yorkers are actually quite smart baseball fans ... particularly Yankees fans.

On football ...... Cowboy fans I agree are a little soft (Nationwide) but in general Southerners and Texans know their football pretty darn good. You don't pack 14,000 for a HS football game unless you spend some time at it. Somewhat like PA, Ohio and Michigan up north.
They watch it more. Do they know more about it? Depends. As weird as it sounds, the smartest fans Ive come across in real life are Giants fans and Redskins fans. I don't know what it is about the internet that turns Redskins fans brains into mush, but theyre different in real life, at least the ones ive met. I think most Giants fans Ive come across in real life are actually pretty educated about football. New Jersey in general has very good football fans and is underrated as a football state. New York state is definately more of a baseball state, although baseball is huge in Jersey too. The comparison was made bc both Yankee fans and Cowboys fans tend to overvalue the players that play on their team just because they wear the pinstripes/star.

And trust me, being from North Jersey, Ive come across plenty of jackass Yankee fans. Its like alot of them think its their birthright to win the World Series every year.
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Old 11-03-2007, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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Sticking to the topic at hand, a big matchup Im gonna pay attention to is Gaither vs Witten.

Gaither actually does a great job in coverage, and is underrated as a run stopper. He's developing, I think by next year possibly, he'll establish himself as the best MIKE in the NFC East. Thats is of course, if his DTs step it up in front of him.

But I love the guy's potential, and think he's gonna be a great player in the coming years. All the MIKEs in the East are run thumpers, Gaither is the only one who provides potential as an elite coverage MIKE.

Carp too I guess, but as the days go by, his stock gets worse and worse. Shame too, I really liked the guy coming out.
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Old 11-03-2007, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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..... trust me, being from North Jersey, Ive come across plenty of jackass Yankee fans. Its like alot of them think its their birthright to win the World Series every year.
Jus' saying, it does not make them dumb baseball fans. Same with Cowboy fans -- front runners yes but not necessarily ignorant.
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Old 11-03-2007, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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Carp too I guess, but as the days go by, his stock gets worse and worse. Shame too, I really liked the guy coming out.
Carp is a square peg in the WP 3-4 Hole.

He will not be given a chance to play unless two OLB go down to injury or two ILB go down.

If we committ to the WP 46 then he really should be traded this off season.
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Old 11-03-2007, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I really like the fact that Watkins is seeing more playing time. I know he's FS in those sets, but I personally like him as a SS more because he has the wingspan to cover TEs in man coverage. He can do both quite honestly, I just like trying to match him up with the TE is all.

I don't really recall you guys ever running dime last year. I don't see alot of Cover 2 out of your sets either this year.

Watkins big issue for SS is the tackling IMHO.
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Old 11-04-2007, 03:12 AM    (permalink
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Watkins big issue for SS is the tackling IMHO.
Being that he lead the team in tackles 6 weeks into the season last year I don't understand what you are getting at...your only out may be technique in his tackles...but that is A) coachable and b) not something to knock him for until he is hurt.
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Old 11-04-2007, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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Being that he lead the team in tackles 6 weeks into the season last year I don't understand what you are getting at...your only out may be technique in his tackles...but that is A) coachable and b) not something to knock him for until he is hurt.
He is not a good tackler yet. I think he lacks some upper body strength at times. Which is why he has some technique problem. A little over compensationg.

Is it fixable, yeah, no one says otherwise.
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Old 11-05-2007, 09:58 AM    (permalink
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wow, I guess its safe to say the Eagles just aren't a good team right now. I never like counting them out, but it might be safe to say it now.

I really like the dime packages Wade has put together. And you guys run a lot of zone, but not alot of Cover 2, which is weird for a team that runs so much zone. A lot of substitions too. I think one thing in the future to worry about (this is nitpicking on my part) is if teams start running a no huddle against your base 3-4, they can isolate matchups they want. But not many teams can pull that off.

I also noticed that Wade's scheme in Dallas is a little different from SD. He isn't as aggressive in Dallas. Maybe that was just against the Eagles? Anyway, if for whatever reason Dallas doesn't succeed this year, don't blame the scheme. The scheme is great. I like it alot.
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Old 11-05-2007, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
wow, I guess its safe to say the Eagles just aren't a good team right now. I never like counting them out, but it might be safe to say it now.

I really like the dime packages Wade has put together. And you guys run a lot of zone, but not alot of Cover 2, which is weird for a team that runs so much zone. A lot of substitions too. I think one thing in the future to worry about (this is nitpicking on my part) is if teams start running a no huddle against your base 3-4, they can isolate matchups they want. But not many teams can pull that off.

I also noticed that Wade's scheme in Dallas is a little different from SD. He isn't as aggressive in Dallas. Maybe that was just against the Eagles? Anyway, if for whatever reason Dallas doesn't succeed this year, don't blame the scheme. The scheme is great. I like it alot.
The no huddle offense was brought up to Wade in a press conference when we played the patriots. His answer was...if teams substitute another WR on the field I'll have my DB go in as well. So if you think about it...the only way they could abuse our base defense with their base offense is if they split a TE or RB out wide...and teams seem to be scared to do that against us because of the pressure we can bring. I obviously don't have solid league numbers...but teams on constantly using max protect schemes on our defense...even when we move to the dime we see 6 or 7 men staying in to block it is crazy...I've never seen offenses do it so frequently.

It's funny because a lot of our sacks this year have been coverage sacks...but like you said we are running a lot of zone...and it's not like we have a lock down coverage secondary...but for the most part it is because teams are sending out just 3 players on passing patterns...and when you have 5 in coverage...those windows become pretty small..just ask McNabb...he was constantly forced to dump off to Westbrook late in the game after we switched Reeves off his man to man duties.

It's funny you mention the cover 2...which seemed to be about 80% of the time with Parcells. Wade believes that you work a scheme to fit the players...and we all know Parcells gets the players to fit the scheme. Wade knows that he doesn't want Roy playing deep halves...hell he learned it from the first play of the year. One thing I've noticed in our Dime package is that we run a lot of robber with our safeties. Hamlin will sit right in that middle zone behind where the LB set up...and Watkins will shift about 5 yards back and keep everything in front of him...one example was Hamlin's interception yesterday...you saw him and Watkins in a normal set about 15-20 yards deep...and then hamlin came up 5 yards and watkins went back 5 yards...both in the middle of the field...McNabb miss read it and paid.

The only problem with our Robber is that if teams streak a TE and a WR on opposite sides of the field you know who has deep responsibility on the TE side.....you got it Roy Williams. While he is mostly responsible for the RB out of the backfield nowadays he does have deep coverage when our CB's play that flats zone. You saw it a couple times against the eagles...I don't think you'll see us get abused by it...but a team like the Giants are the perfect example of a team that can do it.

Put Plax on the leftside...Shockey can either split slot right or offset in the TE position to get a clean release....send both players deep...plax on a double move...get shockey stretching the seem. If this happens and Eli had time..you would see...Henry getting over the top help from Watkins...You would see Roy running for his life to catch Shockey because the RB didn't release...you would see a pass 5 yards past Hamlin and then Newman running 20 yards and tackling shockey at the 5 yardline. Now that's not a big window for a QB to throw too...because although Watkins will start to shade towards Plax...he still has all deep responsibilites..so we are talking a pretty small window to Shockey...but if you hit that window it is going to be a TD.

On the aggressive scheme part...I think Wade benefited greatly from his front 7. Take out the ILB's and find me a guy on SD who can't rush the passer.

The funny thing is...Wade says he very rarely brings 6 guys. I've seen it maybe twice all year. But the same thing happened in SD...but when the 5 guys you send can all get to the QB all hell breaks lose. We have that in some personnel packages...but when you play Bowen and Hatcher..we really lose a lot in the running game...I saw a couple of times where McNabb read it an audibled to a run/draw/shuffle pass/screen. So while we don't look as agressive I just think it has to do with personnel. One thing I will say is that when we want pressure early you'll see Roy on the LOS ready to bring it....saw it on the first play of the eagles game...and also the first play of the patriots game. Roy is a really good player to watch if your curious to see what our team is going to do.
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Old 11-05-2007, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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The no huddle offense was brought up to Wade in a press conference when we played the patriots. His answer was...if teams substitute another WR on the field I'll have my DB go in as well. So if you think about it...the only way they could abuse our base defense with their base offense is if they split a TE or RB out wide...and teams seem to be scared to do that against us because of the pressure we can bring. I obviously don't have solid league numbers...but teams on constantly using max protect schemes on our defense...even when we move to the dime we see 6 or 7 men staying in to block it is crazy...I've never seen offenses do it so frequently.

It's funny because a lot of our sacks this year have been coverage sacks...but like you said we are running a lot of zone...and it's not like we have a lock down coverage secondary...but for the most part it is because teams are sending out just 3 players on passing patterns...and when you have 5 in coverage...those windows become pretty small..just ask McNabb...he was constantly forced to dump off to Westbrook late in the game after we switched Reeves off his man to man duties.

It's funny you mention the cover 2...which seemed to be about 80% of the time with Parcells. Wade believes that you work a scheme to fit the players...and we all know Parcells gets the players to fit the scheme. Wade knows that he doesn't want Roy playing deep halves...hell he learned it from the first play of the year. One thing I've noticed in our Dime package is that we run a lot of robber with our safeties. Hamlin will sit right in that middle zone behind where the LB set up...and Watkins will shift about 5 yards back and keep everything in front of him...one example was Hamlin's interception yesterday...you saw him and Watkins in a normal set about 15-20 yards deep...and then hamlin came up 5 yards and watkins went back 5 yards...both in the middle of the field...McNabb miss read it and paid.

The only problem with our Robber is that if teams streak a TE and a WR on opposite sides of the field you know who has deep responsibility on the TE side.....you got it Roy Williams. While he is mostly responsible for the RB out of the backfield nowadays he does have deep coverage when our CB's play that flats zone. You saw it a couple times against the eagles...I don't think you'll see us get abused by it...but a team like the Giants are the perfect example of a team that can do it.

Put Plax on the leftside...Shockey can either split slot right or offset in the TE position to get a clean release....send both players deep...plax on a double move...get shockey stretching the seem. If this happens and Eli had time..you would see...Henry getting over the top help from Watkins...You would see Roy running for his life to catch Shockey because the RB didn't release...you would see a pass 5 yards past Hamlin and then Newman running 20 yards and tackling shockey at the 5 yardline. Now that's not a big window for a QB to throw too...because although Watkins will start to shade towards Plax...he still has all deep responsibilites..so we are talking a pretty small window to Shockey...but if you hit that window it is going to be a TD.

On the aggressive scheme part...I think Wade benefited greatly from his front 7. Take out the ILB's and find me a guy on SD who can't rush the passer.

The funny thing is...Wade says he very rarely brings 6 guys. I've seen it maybe twice all year. But the same thing happened in SD...but when the 5 guys you send can all get to the QB all hell breaks lose. We have that in some personnel packages...but when you play Bowen and Hatcher..we really lose a lot in the running game...I saw a couple of times where McNabb read it an audibled to a run/draw/shuffle pass/screen. So while we don't look as agressive I just think it has to do with personnel. One thing I will say is that when we want pressure early you'll see Roy on the LOS ready to bring it....saw it on the first play of the eagles game...and also the first play of the patriots game. Roy is a really good player to watch if your curious to see what our team is going to do.
You really did your hw on this scheme Thule. Props. Im gonna make a writeup breaking down our rematch later in the week. Its gonna be long. I'll post it both here and in the Giants discussion.

Im really digging Wade's scheme. Its different from what Im used to, since most of my knowledge of the 3-4 comes from watching the BP scheme for years, but I like this scheme too. Its different, but equally effective.
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Old 11-05-2007, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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You really did your hw on this scheme Thule. Props. Im gonna make a writeup breaking down our rematch later in the week. Its gonna be long. I'll post it both here and in the Giants discussion.

Im really digging Wade's scheme. Its different from what Im used to, since most of my knowledge of the 3-4 comes from watching the BP scheme for years, but I like this scheme too. Its different, but equally effective.
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Old 11-05-2007, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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Anyone see the similarities of the 46 defense and our dime package :O
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