In honor of the greatest game ever...

[MaxV]

Originally Posted by Addict

I'm sorry? Better team? What weapons did Tom Brady have on offense? And more notable, what kind of offense has Peyton Manning played most of his career? Peyton is a great player but if you're going by stats, you have to take into account that a defense doesn't help your stats as a QB at all (except for Vrabel, of course).

Manning has had a HOF receiver in Marvin Harrison, the best #2 in football in Reggie Wayne, one of the top O-lines including one of the best LT's in the game, an all-pro running back (let's not forget how good edge was in IND) and if we're talking more recently a superb TE in Dallas Clark.

Brady didn't have those luxuries and STILL measures up pretty well against Manning, measuring from Brady's first start to now.

Manning is a fantastic QB who will dance into the HOF, but I think Brady is better.

I agree on a lot of your points, except for the one that states defense doesn't help QB stats.

Keep in mind that when an opposition is able to consistantly sustain long, time-consuming drives against your D, your offense will have less time/opportunities.

Now, obviously, if your D is completely terrible and the opposing O can score on it within a minute THEN the QB will have more time to add to his stats.

[duckseason]

Originally Posted by Addict

I'm sorry? Better team? What weapons did Tom Brady have on offense? And more notable, what kind of offense has Peyton Manning played most of his career? Peyton is a great player but if you're going by stats, you have to take into account that a defense doesn't help your stats as a QB at all (except for Vrabel, of course).

Manning has had a HOF receiver in Marvin Harrison, the best #2 in football in Reggie Wayne, one of the top O-lines including one of the best LT's in the game, an all-pro running back (let's not forget how good edge was in IND) and if we're talking more recently a superb TE in Dallas Clark.

Brady didn't have those luxuries and STILL measures up pretty well against Manning, measuring from Brady's first start to now.

Manning is a fantastic QB who will dance into the HOF, but I think Brady is better.

Actually, the defense has a direct impact on the stats of the offensive players. The quicker they get the offense back on the field, the more stats the offense can rack up. The more times they give the offense great field position, the more TD's the offense will score.

Even a bad defense will have an impact on the offense. If your defense is constantly giving up points, you likely trail in the 4th quarter quite often. This will enhance the QB's stats due to the fact they they are forced to throw more often, and that they are often playing against prevent coverages. Likewise, it will decrease the RB's stats due to the fact that they don't see the ball much while trailing late.

[Twiddler]

I'll go with Peyton but it really isn't by much at all. It may be just a preference for how he plays and how long he has retained that high level.

[Addict]

wow three nearly identical responses.... okay point taken. I ment to say is that a defense doens't catch you passes and stuff. But it was a stupid point I suppose.

[stephenson86]

the way i see it, if you put them both on teams which are carbon copies and brady doesnt have his daddy bill talking in his ear, so two average head coaches, manning would totally out shine brady

not saying brady is bad but tbh i feel that if he didnt have bills teet to suckle on he would not be near manning

[McBain]

Originally Posted by BrownsTown

If by clutch you mean won championships with a defense Peyton wishes he had, then yes he is clutch. Peyton has done something Brady hasn't, won a Super Bowl without a dominant defense.

And in case you didn't notice, Manning has been "simply dominant" for a while now.

If you didn't notice Brady is on pace to obliterate manning's record. If i remember correctly, it was the colts defense that carried them to the superbowl last year thanks largely in part to bob sanders. Peyton didn't play very well in the playoffs. Brady won those superbowls with dominant defense but the offense wasn't that great and Brady still played well even without the weapons Manning has had his entire career.

To parody mike tyson

He's coming for you man. His style is impetuous. His defense is impregnable, and He's just ferocious. He wants your heart. He will to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!

[P-L]

Honestly, they are 1a and 1b for me. If I was forced to chose one, I'd take Brady but I'll admit that's my own personal bias. It really is too close to call. Anyone who claims that one is far superior to the other, is probably biased.

The biggest knock on Manning was that he never won the big one and was a choker. But last year he proved all the critics wrong and won the Super Bowl. Say what you want about the Colts defense in the playoffs last year, but there is no doubt in mind that Indianapolis doesn't win that Super Bowl without Manning.

The biggest knock on Brady has been the lack of elite numbers. He's posted very good numbers throughout his career, but never on the level of Manning's. Well, now that he's got a group of receivers comparable to the Colts, he's absolutely dominating. He's currently on pace to have the best single season in the history of the NFL. If he keeps his current pace up he'll finish 1st in Touchdowns, 2nd in Yards, 1st in QB Rating, and 1st in Completion Percentage.

[Jvig43]

As of now, ill give it to peyton, but its extremely close, if brady ends this season with a ring, and has another year like this ones while breaking Mannings record, ill def give it to Brady. I like Brady better, but i think as of now you have to give the nod to Peyton.

[Watchman]

Originally Posted by MaxV

What about bring your team back from a 21-3 deficit late in the 2nd quarter in the AFC Championship game, with your defense giving up another 13 in the 2nd half?

Wouldn't you call that a clutch performance?

BTW, Manning may not have brought the Colts back from 2 point deficit in the Super Bowl against the Bears, but he did make sure they won the game.

What was he suppose to do? Make sure the Bears go up by 2 with 2:00 to go, just so he can have a drive for the win???

I am not saying that Manning doesn't have clutch performances on his resume, he just isn't at the level of Brady, and that is the only thing that really separates them in my mind. Because up until last year, in a big game, no one could say Manning had that clutch performance. Brady established himself with the clutch performances right out of the gate.

But again, both are fantastic QBs, who will be in the HOF.

[Vince Lombardi]

Clearly Adam Vinatieri is more important than either of these two QB's.

[yodapoop]

I'd take either one of these 2 on my team. Especially over $65 million POS. Rule #15B on the boards is now Marc Bulger is not Mark Bulger anymore, his name is $65 million piece of ****.

[KILLERSANTA]

P-money..........Yeah, I did just call him P-money!

[TacticaLion]

Originally Posted by Don Vito

In all fairness, Manning has had top tier receivers, tight end, line, and backs for a while. I think they are both elite, potential HOF QBs but I will take Brady because he has more rings and is on pace to put up (arguably) better numbers this season then Manning ever has, and this is the first year that he has elite talent around him, something Manning has had for a long time.

Manning may have had "top tier receivers, tight end, line, and backs", but New England has had a top-tier defense for a long time (hence the "more rings"). If Peyton had had a New England defense for the last X years, the "rings" may have been different... which is why the rings shouldn't be a main factor in determining which QB is better.

I wont take the rings away from Brady, but the situation(s) is (were) much different.

Comparing overall talent, I give the nod to Manning. Brady is an incredible player, but Manning is a football genius.

[someone447]

Originally Posted by Ewing

Marino never held the all-time interception record. I think that pretty much ends the Marino vs. Favre arguement.

There is a huge thread about this, oh ya, it was one where you blindly ignored everything put in front of you that shows Marino and Favre were very, very, very close in every statistical comparison regarding interceptions.

But, back on topic, I prefer Manning by a slight margin. He is just unbelievable the things he does, and has done since he came into the league.

[Ewing]

Originally Posted by TacticaLion

Manning may have had "top tier receivers, tight end, line, and backs", but New England has had a top-tier defense for a long time (hence the "more rings"). If Peyton had had a New England defense for the last X years, the "rings" may have been different... which is why the rings shouldn't be a main factor in determining which QB is better.

I wont take the rings away from Brady, but the situation(s) is (were) much different.

Comparing overall talent, I give the nod to Manning. Brady is an incredible player, but Manning is a football genius.

Yeah and if Brady had Manning's receivers he would be putting incredible numbers every year. Look at this year. Now that he has actual talent around him he's been downright dominanting. He's on pace for the greatest season ever.

[Ewing]

Originally Posted by someone447

There is a huge thread about this, oh ya, it was one where you blindly ignored everything put in front of you that shows Marino and Favre were very, very, very close in every statistical comparison regarding interceptions.

But, back on topic, I prefer Manning by a slight margin. He is just unbelievable the things he does, and has done since he came into the league.

Yeah, I ignored it because Green Bay homers are the worst in the NFL. Marino is light years ahead of Favre. He actually didn't make a minimum of six moronic throws a game. Then again you Packer fans don't call them crappy throws. They're "gunslings".

[BrownsTown]

Originally Posted by Ewing

Yeah and if Brady had Manning's receivers he would be putting incredible numbers every year. Look at this year. Now that he has actual talent around him he's been downright dominanting. He's on pace for the greatest season ever.

Quit basing your argument over a freaking half season. Who knows, Brady could slow down and end up short of Manning's record. Or he could break it. We don't know yet. "On pace for" means absolutely nothing, especially when both of them have such extensive career's already.

And with those recievers, and that defense, and that pass happy near the goalline coach, Peyton would be putting up similar numbers.

[someone447]

Originally Posted by Ewing

Yeah, I ignored it because Green Bay homers are the worst in the NFL. Marino is light years ahead of Favre. He actually didn't make a minimum of six moronic throws a game. Then again you Packer fans don't call them crappy throws. They're "gunslings".

No, they are moronic throws, but you still ignore the fact that Marino and Favre have essentially identical stats in regards to interceptions. But those moronic throws do make him fun to watch, because many times those moronic throws work out perfectly. What QB in NFL history has made some of the throws he makes? He is a gunslinger, but that isn't always a good thing.

Favre has only had one losing season in his career, he hasn't missed a single game since he started his first game for GB, most career wins for a QB, and he has a Super Bowl win.

Marino through an interception ones every 33.2 attempts, Favre once every 30.5 attempts. That means that Favre throws one extra interception every 400 attempts, that is less than 2 TDs different a season...

A quick cool fact, Favre's career passer rating is exactly the same as his 1992 passer rating(first year as starter.)

[someone447]

Originally Posted by BrownsTown

Quit basing your argument over a freaking half season. Who knows, Brady could slow down and end up short of Manning's record. Or he could break it. We don't know yet. "On pace for" means absolutely nothing, especially when both of them have such extensive career's already.

And with those recievers, and that defense, and that pass happy near the goalline coach, Peyton would be putting up similar numbers.

Not to mention a coach who will continue throwing even when up by 4 TDs.

[Xiomera]

Originally Posted by Ewing

Marino never held the all-time interception record. I think that pretty much ends the Marino vs. Favre arguement.

That is a terrible argument. Interceptions do not single handedly lose games for teams. Not to mention all of the TD passes that Favre has thrown, they tend to counter-act all the picks. Favre has thrown more pass attempts than anyone ever. By default he would have throw more picks.

[BUTerriers]

Originally Posted by Ewing

Marino never held the all-time interception record. I think that pretty much ends the Marino vs. Favre arguement.

Marino never won a Super Bowl...I think it's definitely up for debate. You have to consider championships when you judge how good a player is. People are saying that Brady owes a lot of his success to Belicheck...Marino had the winningest coach in football history for a lot of his career and couldn't get it done. There are a lot of reasons for that, but in the end I think a lot of people would choose Favre over Marino if they wanted a franchise QB.

[Ewing]

Originally Posted by BrownsTown

Quit basing your argument over a freaking half season. Who knows, Brady could slow down and end up short of Manning's record. Or he could break it. We don't know yet. "On pace for" means absolutely nothing, especially when both of them have such extensive career's already.

And with those recievers, and that defense, and that pass happy near the goalline coach, Peyton would be putting up similar numbers.

Yeah, I'm sure Brady is going to start throwing four interceptions a game and go to crap.

[Ewing]

Originally Posted by BUTerriers

Marino never won a Super Bowl...I think it's definitely up for debate. You have to consider championships when you judge how good a player is. .

I guess Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are better than Dan Marino and Randall Cunningham. The rings arguement is the biggest load of crap in the NFL. Teams win championships, not one player.

Originally Posted by Wyndham

In fact, Belichick alone trumps anything Manning has ever had. His coaching is tough to put into words.

"Cheating" isn't THAT hard to spell.


EDIT: And I'm going to have to say this: Anyone who thinks Brett Favre is a better quarterback than Dan Marino is completely out of their mind.

[someone447]

Originally Posted by Ewing

I guess Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are better than Dan Marino and Randall Cunningham. The rings arguement is the biggest load of crap in the NFL. Teams win championships, not one player.

It isn't the only determining factor, but it does have to be taken into account. If not for the Super Bowls Brady has won, I wouldn't even put him in the same class as Manning. I can promise you that the Packers would not have won, or probably even made the Super Bowl if they didn't have Favre(unless they had Elway, who was the only other legitimate all-time great QB at the time.)