Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Team Boards > Cleveland Browns Team Forum

Cleveland Browns Team Forum Discuss the Browns

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-03-2011, 10:34 PM    (permalink
keylime_5
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,780
Reputation: 303889
keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Browns final 53 as of September 3rd, 2011:

QB-Colt McCoy, Seneca Wallace
RB-Peyton Hillis, Montario Hardesty, Armond Smith
FB-Owen Marecic
WR-Mohamed Massaquoi, Brian Robiskie, Greg Little, Joshua Cribbs, Jordan Norwood, Carlton Mitchell
TE-Benjamin Watson, Evan Moore, Jordan Cameron, Alex Smith
OL-Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Tony Pashos, Shawn Lauvao, Jason Pinkston, John Greco, Oniel Cousins, Steve Vallos, Pat Murray

DE-Jabaal Sheard, Jayme Mitchell, Marcus Benard, Derreck Robinson, Auston English
DT-Phil Taylor, Ahtyba Rubin, Brian Schaefering, Scott Paxson
LB-D'Qwell Jackson, Scott Fujita, Chris Gocong, Kaluka Maiava, Titus Brown, Benjamin Jacobs
CB-Joe Haden, Sheldon Brown, Buster Skrine, Dimitri Patterson, James Dockery
S-TJ Ward, Usama Young, Mike Adams, Ray Ventrone, Eric Hagg

K-Phil Dawson
P-Richmond McGee
LS-Ryan Pontbriand

Reggie Hodges, Eric Steinbach, and Brandon Jackson are on the IR.

I think we will sign some waiver wire guys. Paxson, Jacobs, Murray, and English's stay on the 53 man roster might be short-lived. I especially expect us to sign another OL, LB, and DT.
__________________
keylime_5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2011, 05:17 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,428
Reputation: 348823
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
You think we're not adding impact players in this rebuild? Colt McCoy, Peyton Hillis, Montario Hardesty, TJ Ward, Joe Haden, Evan Moore, Greg Little, Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard.....all of these guys have the potential to be impact playmakers for this team if they aren't already are.

Come back when they have proven something besides being starters for this team.

And what's more, you don't win championships by collecting talent on the outside in, you win championships by dominating the line of scrimmage - especially in the AFC North competing with Pittsburgh and Baltimore - and by adding Taylor and Sheard and Thomas and Mack instead of so called "impact" players all while acquiring extra quality draft picks to fill out the rest of the roster with we are well on our way to doing that. Teams like Pittsburgh and Baltimore and New England have all reached contender status without picking in the top 10.

Quote:
You win championships by finding 1!!!!, a true franchise QB. Pittsburgh, Baltimore and NE all have a franchise QB and until we have one, we aren't in the same league as these teams.
As for the LOS, Baltimore built its DL with high picks( Terrell Suggs and Ngata), NE's OL and DL is not a huge strength and Pittsburgh's OL needs help.
Detroit picks in the top 10 like every year. For every Matthew Stafford, Ndamukong Suh, and Calvin Johnson you have Charles Rogers, Roy Williams, Joey Harrington, Mike Williams, and Ernie Sims. They would've been better off trading out of their top 10 spot and acquiring core players instead of wasting picks on those "impact players." It's not like the Browns traded away sure things like Suh or Johnson either, they traded away the rights to Julio Jones and Mark Sanchez. I'll take Colt McCoy, Greg Little, Phil Taylor, Alex Mack, and all the extra picks we got in between gladly.
Detroit was blessed with the worst GM in NFL history for 7 seasons and to bring up his 1st round picks is a joke. Since Mayhew replaced him, and in 3 years, has the Lions poised to be one of the better teams in the NFL.
Where is Cleveland heading, can you really pretend to know because I don't? Sure, I would like to think all will turnout well for the Browns, but IMO, we have years to go before we see any positive results.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2011, 05:25 PM    (permalink
keylime_5
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,780
Reputation: 303889
keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

well when i said we were building the team the right way, what I was referring to was the fact that Heckert stripped the roster bare of all the old veterans who aren't a part of the future and we are constructing the team with draft picks and young unproven guys like Peyton Hillis and Jayme Mitchell that we traded for. That's the proper way to build a team that desperately needs a makeover. If Colt is the real deal then we are certainly headed in the right direction. I love what they are doing on defense with Rubin and Taylor and Sheard up front and Jackson, Haden, and Ward being the back 7 playmakers. Keep drafting good young talent.
__________________
keylime_5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2011, 05:45 PM    (permalink
keylime_5
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,780
Reputation: 303889
keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

...and if you don't like the Lions as an example just go look at all those top 10 picks the Bengals and Cardinals and Browns had in the past. If you hit with those top 10 picks and get lucky it's all well and good, but they don't help you fill out the depth when you have needs everywhere. You are more likely to add more impact players by having more than 2 picks in the first 2 rounds every year than by having a pick in the top of the 1st and 2nd round every year. Just ask New England how that's been working out.
__________________
keylime_5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2011, 05:32 PM    (permalink
j05son
Team Leader
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,063
Reputation: 54387
j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Just because you draft later in round 1 or pick a player outside of round 1 doesn't mean you won't get an elite player. I fully disagree with IAC, it's not where you draft someone but who you draft. This team has been bad since the return because of instability in the front office and the fact we were missing on draft picks.

Holmgren and Heckert are stabilizing the front office and they're hitting on their draft picks.

We have 4 starters from the '10 class in Haden, Ward, McCoy and Lauvao and we can have 2 more draftees contribute on offense with Hardesty and Mitchell.

Then the next very draft class we're going to have 4 new starters in Taylor, Shread, Marecic and Pinkston. Plus your going to see contributions from Little and Skirne while Cameron is a developmental player who is going to fill a niche like Evan Moore, and then you have Eric Hagg - Nebraska's defensive mvp.

Combine all of this with a young core of players like Thomas, Mack, Hillis, Massaquoi, Robiskie, Evan Moore, Ahtyba Rubin and Usama Young along with some vets in Cribbs, Jackson, Gocong, Fujita, Brown, Watson, etc and we are moving in the right direction if you see it or not.

Then we go into the 2012 draft with 2 firsts, a second, a third, 2 fourths, a fifth and either a six or a seventh (we lose one for jayme mitchell trade).
__________________

Let's get some activity going in the Cleveland sub-forum!
j05son is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2011, 04:14 PM    (permalink
Cudders
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 306
Reputation: 1091601
Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

For the record, I agree with the common sentiment that Heckert and Holmgren are building the foundation of this roster in a smart manner. Under Mangini, we were the most unathletic team in the NFL and one of the most talent-starved in general. The current brain trust has changed that. We've added some much-needed athleticism on both sides of the ball and stockpiled picks to create overall team depth. I like the direction we're going. That said, I don't know if I would quantify some of these guys as "impact players" yet. They very well could develop into that in the future, but we just don't know. We've seen plenty of players impress early on in their career and then wash out shortly thereafter. We can't project each individual as best-case scenario. While it's theoretically possible, it's mathematically improbable that they all reach their ceilings.

As a person that also considers the Lions their second favorite team, I agree with IAC to a degree. Yes, Detroit's management has done a commendable job with their roster makeover. They have added cornerstones when they can, developed some talent in-house, and found a competent coach to oversee the effort. But -- and I want to stress this -- there is no universal blueprint for building a championship-caliber team. Sure, historically, there appears to be some overlapping components between them, but no surefire step-by-step approach that guarantees playoff berths and Lombardi trophies. With that in mind, let's look at what Detroit has done in the draft to dig themselves out of their self-inflicted hole since Martin Mayhew took over for Millen as general manager. (As an aside, Millen did hit on Calvin Johnson. Granted, it wasn't a hard pick to make, but he did leave the Lions with one elite building block. We got Joe Thomas the next pick. I'll take him as an impact player.)

1.) The Roy Williams Trade - Stockpiling picks. Trading a proven commodity for a first, third, and sixth-round pick. The idea behind it? The Lions desperately need talent everywhere and one pretty good receiver isn't going to do much for them. (Note: With those picks, Mayhew took Brandon Pettigrew, Derrick Williams, and Aaron Brown. One hit and two misses. Pettigrew has all the makings of a very good-to-great tight end. Williams was always a better athlete than football player. Since waived. Aaron Brown never showed much more than an emergency third-string tailback. Since waived.)

2.) Finding the Franchise Quarterback - Obviously, taking Matthew Stafford first overall in 2009 was a no-brainer. I know some preferred Mark Sanchez, but Stafford had the former crushed in terms of physical talent, experience, and upside. Grabbing that franchise quarterback is the biggest part of a rebuilding project and I have a feeling that is the source of your displeasure with the Browns. The bottom-line is that the Browns haven't had the opportunity to add someone like Stafford. Sure, we had our shot at Sanchez and Freeman in 2009, but let's be honest for a moment. Sanchez wasn't in the same tier with Stafford as a prospect and Freeman was a crap shoot. He looked the part of a franchise quarterback and flashed the potential, but he was perceived as a big-time project. Anything else is revisionist history. Instead, we added three Mangini stopgaps (admittedly lackluster compensation), an extra pick (good intentions meets bust), and Alex Mack, who has developed into one of the best centers in the NFL. I can't complain with that.

Onto the 2010 NFL Draft. Top three quarterbacks were Bradford, Tebow, and McCoy. Like Stafford, Bradford went number one overall. We never had a shot at him. Neither quarterback left was worth a top ten pick, so we went with Joe Haden, the best cornerback prospect on the board. In a league becoming more and more dominated by high-octane passing attacks, defending the pass has become critically important. When you consider the fact that he also supports the run, which is paramount for winning inside our division, he was the right choice.

Onto the 2011 NFL Draft. We had three shots at a quarterback this year. Locker, Gabbert, and Ponder. Out of the three, I wouldn't have hated Locker. But you also have to consider the external forces at work here. Locker had a disappointing senior season and was considered a project that had to become more comfortable in the pocket to succeed at the next level. Gabbert screamed bust to me. And Ponder doesn't have an enormously high upside either. Plus, McCoy showed some good things on tape in 2010. If the Browns weren't absolutely sold that Locker, Gabbert, or Ponder were franchise quarterback material, they made the right move by passing on all of them.

3.) Finding the Stud Pass Rusher - A stud pass rusher is one of the four most important positions in football. The Lions had the great fortune of being able to pick Ndamukong Suh in 2010. Much like Stafford, it wasn't a hard choice to make. And, much like Stafford, the Browns haven't been in the position to select a truly elite one. B.J. Raji has shown a little pass rushing push for the Packers, but we were running a two-gap 3-4 in 2009 and already had Shaun Rogers on our roster. Brian Orakpo would have been nice, but the Ghost of Vernon Gholston unfairly hurt his value and he was gone before we got another chance at him at seventeen. In 2010, there wasn't a pass rusher that carried a top ten value. I expect Jason Pierre-Paul to develop into a formidable pass rusher with the Giants, but he was a freak athlete without much polish and lacked a complete repertoire coming out. A talent-deprived team doesn't gamble on that at seven. In 2011, we had our shot at a top-tier rusher, but we dropped back, picked up additional picks, and still found a defensive linemen we're confident in with Phil Taylor. At that point, it becomes an issue of philosophy. Would you rather have, for example, just Nick Fairley or Julio Jones or would you rather have Phil Taylor, Greg Little, and an extra first-round pick next year? Personally, I'm choosing the latter in our situation.

The Lions have good picks and signings sprinkled throughout their past three drafts and free agent periods, but the coaching staff has meant a tremendous amount to the rebuild, too. Jim Schwartz and Martin Mayhew are on the same page. They share the same vision. That's important for any team. Like I said, I think Detroit has done a savvy job of restocking the cupboards. But every team can't follow the Detroit model exactly.
Cudders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2011, 08:32 PM    (permalink
kalbears13
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The difference between a child's toy and an adult toy
Posts: 4,136
Reputation: 1639594
kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kalbears13 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

As much as I have liked what the Lions have done, they still haven't produced a winning season. I know Stafford was hurt last year but I'll believe it when I see it.
__________________
kalbears13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 06:35 PM    (permalink
keylime_5
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,780
Reputation: 303889
keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Browns get hosed apparently, what else is new?

Sept. 11, 2011 5:23 p.m. - by Marty Gitlin - Shurmur question rule interpretation
Coach Pat Shurmur on the quick-snap play that resulted in defensive confusion and the game-winning TD . "It's my understanding that they changed personnel lining up and there are rules that go along with that. When the offense changes personnel, it's my understanding the defense has time to do so." Browns RapidReports
__________________
keylime_5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 11:16 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,428
Reputation: 348823
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
Browns get hosed apparently, what else is new?

Sept. 11, 2011 5:23 p.m. - by Marty Gitlin - Shurmur question rule interpretation
Coach Pat Shurmur on the quick-snap play that resulted in defensive confusion and the game-winning TD . "It's my understanding that they changed personnel lining up and there are rules that go along with that. When the offense changes personnel, it's my understanding the defense has time to do so." Browns RapidReports
What league is he playing in? Many teams are using the quick snap and no huddle today to prevent the defense from switching personnel.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 05:02 PM    (permalink
Brown Leader
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sun rises in the East
Posts: 3,334
Reputation: 654774
Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Biggest beef with the coaching first week is the use of personal. Who is the team's best playmaker? Why does that guy only get about 3 touches within the offense, for the game? (Cribbs of course). Evan Moore had two huge drops, especially the probable TD catch but in his defense, he didn't even see the field until late in the 2nd quarter. Just speculating, but more playing time might get him more comfortable rather than standing on the sidelines for an hour , than thrown in to grab a TD.

Colt had some untimely rookie type moments. But he also seemed unwilling to throw into coverage down the field. Maby that's due to the WRs hopelessly covered but the good to elite QBs in the league make their WRs better. The coaching philosophy might be conservative rather than chance a turnover but instead of a check to Hillis on 3rd and long, which is really conceding a punt, how about check to Cribbs or Armond Smith?

The defense played fine other than the game deciding mistake ;) The offense sputtered and collapsed with Colt again looking pretty dreadful in the rain. Bengals on offense actually look like they could be really scary when a really good QB emerges.
__________________

..yes, this sig is a little embarrassing right now
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg9 View Post
Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBess View Post
....ask Brandon Weeden.
Pre-Draft 2014 Mock *FULL DRAFT*
Brown Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 05:35 PM    (permalink
keylime_5
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,780
Reputation: 303889
keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

yeah, Bengals have potential on offense with their weapons, but who wouldn't be scary with a really good QB, right?

Offense is a work in progress. Looked outstanding at times but couldn't maintain drives for most of the 2nd half. With a very young QB, a rookie head coach, and very average weapons that is to be expected. Very young team who is gonna make mistakes and lose games like that one, but they should improve as the year goes on and hopefully win at least 6 games and stay healthy.
__________________
keylime_5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 09:30 PM    (permalink
j05son
Team Leader
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,063
Reputation: 54387
j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Look at the good news; I don't think we can play any worse.

How different of a game would it be without 7 1st quarter penalties, without a punter shanking 3 out of his 8 punts (the 3 in question went 20,27,30 yards) and an experienced head coach calling time out before we get embarrassed on that quick snap (which the league reviewed and stated we had ample time for a substitution).

edit: rumors are we'll be waiving McGee and signing Brad Maynard.
__________________

Let's get some activity going in the Cleveland sub-forum!
j05son is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2011, 11:22 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,428
Reputation: 348823
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I'm looking at 4 wins with a slight chance to go as high as 6. If we cannot beat the Bengals with their QB position, how are we going to stack up against the better teams. UGH!!!
This isn't a team where in one draft you can fix all the mediocrity, we need to concentrate on deciding if McCoy can be a true franchise QB otherwise, we will be stuck in endless losing seasons with no real future and any talk about improving will be just so much hot air.
If McCoy is just serviceable, we will be stuck drafting in the middle of the pack every year with little hope of finding real impact players.
I'm afraid I'm looking again, at a very, very long decade where we won't be competitive.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2011, 01:50 PM    (permalink
keylime_5
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,780
Reputation: 303889
keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Well for once we agree about something. We do need to concentrate on deciding if McCoy is the guy, and I think this year will be all about McCoy proving if he is the franchise QB or not. At worst I think he's a servicable NFL QB and a very good backup who can at least start games and play well for us in the pinch, but if he can be one of the better QBs in the league and consistently play like he did in the 2nd quarter against Cincinnati then we'll be set and we'll probably win more than 5 or 6 games this year. I think most had the expectations of winning 7 or 8 games this year as being acceptable considering the state of this team. If McCoy doesn't prove to be more anything more than just servicable we won't win many games this year and we'll probably look to draft Luck, Landry Jones, or Matt Barkley next April.
__________________
keylime_5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2011, 08:30 PM    (permalink
j05son
Team Leader
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,063
Reputation: 54387
j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I will agree in part but I'm a glass half full man and I'm not going to panic about one game.

#1 vs Cincinnati: I view it less of a game won by the Bengals but a game lost by us. We basically spotted them 13 points with McCoy's shaking first quarter, 7 penalties, a botched punt and giving them terrific field position. We had terrible special teams apart from Cribbs' 51 yard return and our play calling on both sides were subject (that's when the defense did call a play and not huddling during an AJ Green walk-in TD). I thought our playmakers (Hillis, Cribbs and Moore) needed to be on the field more and needed to get more touches.

I fully expect that Maynard will fix our punting issues and special teams will become a strong point for us again. I am expecting us to play more disciplined as we're a young team still learning with a shortened preparation period (not an excuses as all teams had the same amount of time and there's teams younger than us). I'm expecting the play calling to strengthen as Shurman was able to get production from his playmakers in St. Louis and Jauron is a respected defensive mind in this league.

I'm worried about our run defense since Benson did put up 121 yards on almost 5 yards a carry. Cincinnati definitely abused Shread and seemed to run the majority of plays at our right side but at the same time it was our left side that allowed Benson to score. Secondly I'm worried about-

#2 Colt McCoy: Colt played half the game like a rookie and another half as Chad Pennington. Either way it's not good enough for us to say you're our guy. I do agree with IAC that this is the year that we determine if we stick with Colt. If Colt can't play better than a Chad Pennington clone, we need to package our firsts and whatever it takes to go and get a franchise QB.

#3 The Future: As for sucking for another decade, I find that hard to believe. The biggest problem Cleveland had was instability in the front office and missing draft picks. We have a very respected president and super bowl winner in Holmgren, a general manager who has had success in the same position for many years in Philadelphia and an owner who has an open checkbook and keeps his nose out of decisions (tell me you would rather have today's version of Jerry Jones, Al Davis or Dan Snyder).

Even if we stick with Colt and he only reaches the potential of a Chad Pennington, we can still do well, albeit not Super Bowl caliber. Now I would obviously prefer Cleveland to not stick with Colt if that's as high of a ceiling he can reach and go after a QB who can rival Rogers, Manning and Brady.

None-the-less we still have a solid, young core of players who can contribute for years down the line in;

Joe Thomas - 26
Alex Mack - 25
Evan Moore - 25
Peyton Hillis - 25
Josh Cribbs - 28
Joe Haden - 22
T.J. Ward - 22
Ahtyba Rubin - 25
Chris Gocong - 27
D'Qwell Jackson - 27

as well as some who have potential, like;

Phil Taylor - 23
Jaball Sheard - 22
Buster Skrine - 22
Usama Young - 26
Kaluka Maiava - 24
Titus Brown - 25
Owen Marecic - 22
Jason Pinkston - 24
Montario Hardesty - 24
Jordan Cameron - 24
and pretty much the rest of our WR
Massaquoi & Norwood - 24
Mitchell & Robiskie - 23
Greg Little - 22

I think our young nucleus is just as good if not better than the Lions who you (IAC) have stated are doing things the right way and you're confident that they are turning around their franchise. Plus we have 2 first rounders plus future picks and the rest of the '12 draft picks including an extra 4th to go and make a package to try and get Luck if need be. While we do have question marks regarding QB (as does Detroit with Staffard) our future is looking up - even if this season goes down.
__________________

Let's get some activity going in the Cleveland sub-forum!
j05son is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2011, 01:49 AM    (permalink
Brown Leader
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sun rises in the East
Posts: 3,334
Reputation: 654774
Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Ahhh smh j05son.
Quote:
#1 vs Cincinnati: I view it less of a game won by the Bengals but a game lost by us. We basically spotted them 13 points with McCoy's shaking first quarter, 7 penalties, a botched punt and giving them terrific field position. We had terrible special teams apart from Cribbs' 51 yard return and our play calling on both sides were subject (that's when the defense did call a play and not huddling during an AJ Green walk-in TD). I thought our playmakers (Hillis, Cribbs and Moore) needed to be on the field more and needed to get more touches.
Okay, agreed we looked like the better team but if not for the huge defensive gaff, I don't think the Bengals score more than 3pts from that point on.

Quote:
I'm worried about our run defense since Benson did put up 121 yards on almost 5 yards a carry. Cincinnati definitely abused Shread and seemed to run the majority of plays at our right side but at the same time it was our left side that allowed Benson to score. Secondly I'm worried about-
Really? I thought Sheard showed up well and made some plays against the run, being disruptive. I think he looks better than Mitchell at this point. 121yd at 5per is completely misleading. Up until his late 39yd TD run, when the game was all but decided, we played their run game very well. The Bengals are built to run the ball this year and will demolish some teams on the ground.

Quote:
#2 Colt McCoy: Colt played half the game like a rookie and another half as Chad Pennington. Either way it's not good enough for us to say you're our guy. I do agree with IAC that this is the year that we determine if we stick with Colt. If Colt can't play better than a Chad Pennington clone, we need to package our firsts and whatever it takes to go and get a franchise QB.
Clearly you are forgetting how great Pennington was throughout most of his career. Colt absolutely did not look like a bonafide NFL starter against Cincy. Unless he does sort of a 180 against Indy, I think our scouting department is going on alarm.

Hard to say but I think last year's team does not lose that game. Hopefully it's a step back, two step forward kind of thing.

What's bugging me is the WR grouping. Right now it's..

1. Momass
2. Robo
3. Little
4. Cribbs

When it ought to be..

1. Little
2. Cribbs
3. Momass
4. Robo

Massa is an ideal 3rd WR to me. He's decent all around but doesn't have anything special about his game. Actually I was surprised to read that Little saw the most snaps out of the WRs at Cincy. With Massa perhaps missing the next game with a hammy, it could be blessing in disguise if Little and Cribbs get the majority of the snaps. Robo apparently went back to being useless-he should see less snaps this week.

I like Shurmur but I'm not sure I like his even keel attitude about a game we should have won. I'd prefer a guy who shows disgust and declares that it's not acceptable. What's everyone think about his personality?
__________________

..yes, this sig is a little embarrassing right now
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg9 View Post
Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBess View Post
....ask Brandon Weeden.
Pre-Draft 2014 Mock *FULL DRAFT*
Brown Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2011, 03:04 AM    (permalink
j05son
Team Leader
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,063
Reputation: 54387
j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.j05son is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Pennington debuted midseason for a good NY team (division winner the year before) in '02 and lead them to 7-2 and helped them into the playoffs and lost in the divisional round.

Before Pennington
2000 = 9-7 3rd in AFC East
2001 = 10-6 3rd in AFC East, lost wild card
New York Jets
2002 = 9-7 (Pennington 7-2) won AFC East, lost divisional round
2003 = 6-10 4th in AFC East
2004 = 10-6 2nd in AFC East, lost divisional round
2005 = 4-12 4th in AFC East
2006 = 10-6 2nd in AFC East, lost wild card
2007 = 4-12 3rd in AFC East

Miami Dolphins
2008 = 11-5 1st in AFC East, lost wild card
2009 = 7-9 3rd in AFC East (Pennington 3 starts - 3 games lost)
2010 = 7-9 3rd in AFC East (Pennington threw 2 passes)

Now, I never said Pennington was bad - I even said that we would win if Colt becomes a Pennington clone. I said that Chad isn't taking people to super bowls or taking a team to the top. I would rather take a shot on Luck being a guy that could possibly rival Manning/Brees/Brady/Rogers and can make us legitimate super bowl contenders than a good qb that can't string 2 good seasons together.

On the wide receivers - I will agree with you 100%. What is a WCO - short to intermediate routes that result in YAC (sparknotes version). Cribbs is arguably our best playmaker and we've seen what he can do with the ball and some space. Give him the ball! Put him in a position to get more touches. I think Cribbs can do well in this offense. Robiskie was only targeted 3 times against Cincy for 0 catches.
__________________

Let's get some activity going in the Cleveland sub-forum!
j05son is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2011, 05:19 PM    (permalink
keylime_5
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,780
Reputation: 303889
keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

yeah, the Bengals' rushing stats are very misleading. We bottled them up the whole game. After that fluke brainfart TD to Green we sold out to stop their run on 3rd down and blitzed TJ Ward, who missed and then Benson was off to the races. One big run and all of a sudden it's a bad game statistically for our run defense when it would have been a great game otherwise. Sheard played okay, would like to see more edge pressure from him but he's a rookie. Love his motor and energy out there, he looks like he'll get his eventually.

On Colt, we shouldn't judge him yet until he's played more games this year. Offense was in too many 2nd & longs and 3rd & longs to have success against Cincy. In the 2nd quarter he made some great plays, but his work was cut out for him the rest of the game. They seemed to have recognized that and if the run game improves on early downs, then we should see a much much better offense when it comes to sustaining drives and giving Colt more time and options in the passing game.
__________________
keylime_5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2011, 05:22 PM    (permalink
Brown Leader
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sun rises in the East
Posts: 3,334
Reputation: 654774
Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Cleveland is one defensive breakdown away from leading the division.
I like how that sounds.

The good:
Colt was a fine game manger against the Colts. Massa had the best catch of his career. Cribbs started. (if we feed him the ball he can take over games-that should be obvious by now.) Sheard stood out at his new spot. We have a punter. Rubin is definitely a pro bowler-this year he might get the recognition. Browns have the second ranked pass defense after 2 games =) Hopefully this win gets the monkey off the team's back after a disappointing debut because there's a lot of winnable games ahead.

The bad:
Oline is getting 0 push in the run game...basically it.
__________________

..yes, this sig is a little embarrassing right now
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg9 View Post
Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBess View Post
....ask Brandon Weeden.
Pre-Draft 2014 Mock *FULL DRAFT*

Last edited by Brown Leader : 09-21-2011 at 10:54 AM.
Brown Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 11:47 AM    (permalink
Brown Leader
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sun rises in the East
Posts: 3,334
Reputation: 654774
Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Oh, and about Chad-injuries robbed him of what could have been a career similar to Brees. When healthy he was very good and absolutely capable imo of leading a team to a ring. But Herm was no Sean Payton.

recap:

2002 - 104.2 rating-his best season-1st as starter. playoffs
2003 - misses first 6gms with fractured wrist. 82.9 rat.
2004 - 91.0 rat. shoulder surgery following rotator cuff in playoffs @ Pitt
2005 - another shoulder surgery-lost week 3 for the season-Herm bailed on him and the team
2006 - 82.6 rat Comeback player of the year-playoffs-creates Mangenius
2007 - high ankle sprain early on 86.1 rat coach prefers Kellen Clemens
2008 - 97.4 rat Comeback player again-turns Mia 1 win to 11- makes Tuna and Sparano look great- playoffs- ok another bad game but that squad overachieved.
2009 - Yet another shoulder injury-lost for season after 3gms
2010 - Henne takes over. the end.
2011 - Basketball oops- Broadcasting
__________________

..yes, this sig is a little embarrassing right now
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg9 View Post
Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBess View Post
....ask Brandon Weeden.
Pre-Draft 2014 Mock *FULL DRAFT*
Brown Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2011, 11:13 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,428
Reputation: 348823
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Leader View Post
Oh, and about Chad-injuries robbed him of what could have been a career similar to Brees. When healthy he was very good and absolutely capable imo of leading a team to a ring. But Herm was no Sean Payton.

recap:

2002 - 104.2 rating-his best season-1st as starter. playoffs
2003 - misses first 6gms with fractured wrist. 82.9 rat.
2004 - 91.0 rat. shoulder surgery following rotator cuff in playoffs @ Pitt
2005 - another shoulder surgery-lost week 3 for the season-Herm bailed on him and the team
2006 - 82.6 rat Comeback player of the year-playoffs-creates Mangenius
2007 - high ankle sprain early on 86.1 rat coach prefers Kellen Clemens
2008 - 97.4 rat Comeback player again-turns Mia 1 win to 11- makes Tuna and Sparano look great- playoffs- ok another bad game but that squad overachieved.
2009 - Yet another shoulder injury-lost for season after 3gms
2010 - Henne takes over. the end.
2011 - Basketball oops- Broadcasting
There is no physical similarity between Chad and Brees. Chad had a noodle for an arm while Brees has an above average NFL arm.
Chad was very accurate which was his strength but he couldn't make every throw which limited his effectiveness. Brees has no such limitation.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2011, 11:16 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,428
Reputation: 348823
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Leader View Post
I like how that sounds.

The good:
Colt was a fine game manger against the Colts. Massa had the best catch of his career. Cribbs started. (if we feed him the ball he can take over games-that should be obvious by now.) Sheard stood out at his new spot. We have a punter. Rubin is definitely a pro bowler-this year he might get the recognition. Browns have the second ranked pass defense after 2 games =) Hopefully this win gets the monkey off the team's back after a disappointing debut because there's a lot of winnable games ahead.

The bad:
Oline is getting 0 push in the run game...basically it.
The pass defense rating is totally misleading having faced Dalton and Collins and Dalton didn't even finish the game.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2011, 11:37 AM    (permalink
Da-Phins
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,361
Reputation: 93084
Da-Phins is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Da-Phins is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Da-Phins is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Da-Phins is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Da-Phins is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Da-Phins is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Da-Phins is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Da-Phins is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Da-Phins is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Da-Phins is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Da-Phins is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Good luck today guys. Hoping for an entertaining, injury free game today.
__________________

Props to fenikz on the awesome sig
Da-Phins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2011, 01:49 AM    (permalink
Brown Leader
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sun rises in the East
Posts: 3,334
Reputation: 654774
Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
There is no physical similarity between Chad and Brees. Chad had a noodle for an arm while Brees has an above average NFL arm.
Chad was very accurate which was his strength but he couldn't make every throw which limited his effectiveness. Brees has no such limitation.
No physical similarity? What are you talking about, they both got the comb over. ;)

Meh, both small stature guys with great understanding of the game, accuracy, leadership traits. Chad's arm progressively got worse while Brees has maintained and maby even improved his arm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
The pass defense rating is totally misleading having faced Dalton and Collins and Dalton didn't even finish the game.
Hence, the smiley face after I wrote it.

But Haden is nearing a Revis like level after shutting down Green, Wayne and now Marshall. If he starts making plays on the ball too, he's there.

Sheard is really kind of beasting now. Looking like the best rookie DE. Taylor's doing fine but it irks me when he takes plays off. That doesn't look good next to a hustling beast like Rubin.

McCoy looked a lot like the first game except here he pulled out a win-good thing it wasn't raining.
__________________

..yes, this sig is a little embarrassing right now
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg9 View Post
Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBess View Post
....ask Brandon Weeden.
Pre-Draft 2014 Mock *FULL DRAFT*
Brown Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2011, 11:21 AM    (permalink
SolidGold
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,130
Reputation: 597016
SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

sounds like the Browns front office/coach is trying to force Hillis out of Cleveland or gain leverage on him in contract negotiaitons.. They are phasing him out of the offense for the less talented Hardesty and spreading rumors that he missed last weeks game because of his contract situation..ignoring the fact that he lost 10-2 lbs. Pretty pathetic stuff and a bad way to treat their best offensive player.
SolidGold is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.