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Old 11-07-2007, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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D I'm not sure what the Giants safeties have to do with a discussion on how I think Roy Williams is not a good safety.

And I would think you would know making the Pro Bowl does not fully gauge how good of a player someone really is. Williams will make highlight reels with big hits (which seem to have been decreased lately) but many fans around the nation don't see how limited he is in terms of other elements in being a DB.
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Old 11-07-2007, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Do we really have to make this into a Roy Williams discussion?

You all probably know my take on him. I don't think he's very good at all, below average quite honestly. I never understood the obsession with him. I think most Cowboys fans try to look at the glass as half full because theyre stuck with him for the long run, but that doesn't mean he's a good player.

And quite honestly, I think as long as he's on the Cowboys, they will always have a below average performance against the pass against teams with good pass offenses.

You can't hide a sheep in wolf's clothing against elite teams. Not happening.
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Old 11-07-2007, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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The awesome 4th grade argument of hes better then what you got so you cant call him bad.

Of course no one mentioned the Giants safeties before you said this. And I guess not having a good safety means all Giants fans can't have an opinion on them?
Yeah and my dad can beat up your dad.

10 brought up Pierce being a good cover MLB in the same talks trying to poke at Roy, so it was a shot back.

Pro Bowl, here he comes! Best of the best!

10, you're still not getting it. We know what his weaknesses are in coverage. Yes, he susceptible, but on occasion he does make a play in coverage.... Lead the team in INTs last year, and already has a couple this year. He's a playmaker.

Burns, you're too infatuated with the highlight reel hits. Fact of the matter is that Roy is as active as any player on defense. He's second on the team with 43 tackles behind Bradie. You guys are acting like he's invisible man.

BBD, yeah, I agree that Roy can't hold up for long without getting beat against Elite passing teams, but as long as Reeves is on the same field, teams are targeting him more. If we find a replacement upgrade for Reeves in the draft or FA, then teams would probably start to look in Roy's direction more. This year, we have already played the Patriots (an elite passing team) and Roy was beat on a long 3rd down conversion to Watson, but that was the only play he really was at fault for. He may not have had a great affect on helping to stop the overall pass, but can't place the blame solely on him. Henry was out of that game, and it's a fact... Patriots are just a better team up and down the roster.
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Old 11-07-2007, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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On a lighter note, my fearless prediction for the game will be...

Giants 27
Cowboys 21

I think we will notch probably 3-4 sacks, while Flozell Adams will notch probably 3-4 false starts.
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Old 11-07-2007, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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And quite honestly, I think as long as he's on the Cowboys, they will always have a below average performance against the pass against teams with good pass offenses.

You can't hide a sheep in wolf's clothing against elite teams. Not happening.
Oh god Amen. Again, try explaining that to a Cowboy fan.

All we see is the bling bling Pro-Bowls and forget how putrid our Pass D has been for a long time and why is it bad? Because you are playing pass D with 3 guys, not 4. You are doing yoga stretches to fit him into pass D packages

RW got so much good publicity here his first two years that has led to unwarranted Pro-Bowl nominations the other years. ESPN's Mike Irvin "hits" further brandished this "elite" image. Unfortunately, it is as you write.

Cowboys will have trouble beating playoff teams consistently with this guy in anything but LB duties. Just willfully blind fans who confuse rooting for him to do well with evaluating what he is (bad).

MEMO TO NFL: If he is playing SS -- audible to pass every time. If playing LB/Rover in nickel or dime, run at him.

I want Roy to do well but I get really upset with coaches and mgmt every time I see him lagging in coverage, getting beat, getting run over by a Guard b/c he is not a LB, and giving up points and yards ...... when the answer was LET HIM GO. FAILED DRAFT PICK. JERRY JONES, USE MONEY ELSEWHERE.

This has been a real problem since we switched to the 3-4. 3-4 does not get as much coverage "juice" from the LBers to cover up for Roy. 3-4 needs the SS to cover in order to free the OLB to mask the blitz and be creative. As BBD has said, 3-4 SS must cover for that D to power forward.

With Roy as the SS in the 3-4 -- you are nuts to blitz a 5th or 6th. In a 4-3m maybe you do a safety blitz and leave 3 DB plus 3, lighter, faster LB to cover. But the point is in a 4-3 Roy is much more interchangable with the LBers. In a 3-4 he is not interchangable.

**** this drives me bonkers when I think about it. How the F does a GM with any brains not pick this up and sign him instead to a huge contract !!!!! Particularly given the extension was done 16 games into a failed experiment. 2005, after the 3-4 switch, our SS play was exposed for 16 games. 2006 August, he signs Roy. 2006 Regular season more of the same horrid play. 2007, Game 1 disaster with Roy and now he is moved to LB duties anytime a pass play is coming *****

So, I root for him but he just is awful and Plax called it right when he said Roy was a 250lb ankle tackler.

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Old 11-07-2007, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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He may not have had a great affect on helping to stop the overall pass, but can't place the blame solely on him. Henry was out of that game, and it's a fact
PLAYING WITH A HANDICAP ON THE FIELD. You can only hide him so long.

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... Patriots are just a better team up and down the roster.
Uh, no.

Pats have better Pass D schemes. Pats have a better QB and better WR. That's it.

If only we could play decent Pass D we could have won in Dallas.

This means no Ellis in coverage, no Roy in coverage, Henry + TNew, Hamlin and Watkins at S. Play more Dime with Burnett ala Eagles.

Also give me back T Glenn for one game on O ........ and we have a 60/40 chance to win.

Don't think for a minute the Colts with their #1 and # 3WR out, # 1 LT out, #1 WILL out would not have beaten the Pats also. Colts win, hands down, if they are as healthy as the Pats.

Pats are very beatable. But you have to be healthy, talented, play smart and get excellent QB play.

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Old 11-07-2007, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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Good weather w/ low-to-no winds: Cowboys 45 -- Giants 27

Bad Weather or Windy: Giants 24 -- Cowboys 17

****** Romo has yet to prove to me he can be "Romo" in bad weather. Our Pass D will give up points. Our O Coordinator has not proven to me he is committed to running the ball 40 times if need be to win a game -- a little too pass focused with a big OLine.
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Old 11-07-2007, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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Also give me back T Glenn for one game on O ........ and we have a 60/40 chance to win.

Don't think for a minute the Colts with their #1 and # 3WR out, # 1 LT out, #1 WILL out would not have beaten the Pats also. Colts win, hands down, if they are as healthy as the Pats.
60/40? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

"Hands down". Um, no. Take away those phantom penalties against the Pats and they run the ******* show against the Colts. Harrison has a history of not showing up for Pats games (except for like 2 games) and Belichick would make a rookie LT's head spin with his scheme. Give me a break.
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Old 11-07-2007, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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he is right, those 2 weren't in the game he didn't game plan for them, if he run the same game play with Marvin and the LT, then colts win. But Pats, would plan for them. We just have to see how well the Pats will do in the cold weather mainly the WR, Wes, played in Miami, Moss was in doors or Oakland, Stallworth was injured during the cold weather in Philadelphia.
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Old 11-07-2007, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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60/40? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

"Hands down". Um, no. Take away those phantom penalties against the Pats and they run the ******* show against the Colts. Harrison has a history of not showing up for Pats games (except for like 2 games) and Belichick would make a rookie LT's head spin with his scheme. Give me a break.
Well, if you take away some phantom penalites against the Cowboys they may have won without their starting CB and WR. Holding calls to kill drives and PI calls versus Safeties Moss ran over. DeMarcus Ware having his face mask held about 5 times on 3rd down without one penalty called.

My point is Colts win Sunday with all their starters. Manning did not have the usual weapons. Brady did. Cowboys could have won if they played smarter and had their DB starters.

Pats have been pretty healthy all year except for Seymour .... a spot they are deep at and in fact the only spot they are deep at in the entire team. The Pats also have been running Air Coryell in great weather.

I am not as impressed with the Pats as the mediots are. I see an excellent team running high octane with a great passing game. I see a Defense that is slow but well schemed -- good enuff to hold teams under 30 points every game.

One injury or one bad weather game in December or January ....... like the game the Raiders loss to the Pats in 2001 Season.... and all this Pats as the greatest goes away fast.

Simply put, the Pats are no a complete team in my opinion. They are the weight lifter with a huge upper body with skinny legs.
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Old 11-07-2007, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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he is right, those 2 weren't in the game he didn't game plan for them, if he run the same game play with Marvin and the LT, then colts win. But Pats, would plan for them. We just have to see how well the Pats will do in the cold weather mainly the WR, Wes, played in Miami, Moss was in doors or Oakland, Stallworth was injured during the cold weather in Philadelphia.
You forgot the third WR -- Gonzalez -- and the starting WILL Keiho.

Unless they get great weather through January, they will lose at some point IMHO.
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Old 11-07-2007, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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Yeah and my dad can beat up your dad.

10 brought up Pierce being a good cover MLB in the same talks trying to poke at Roy, so it was a shot back.

Pro Bowl, here he comes! Best of the best!

10, you're still not getting it. We know what his weaknesses are in coverage. Yes, he susceptible, but on occasion he does make a play in coverage.... Lead the team in INTs last year, and already has a couple this year. He's a playmaker.

Burns, you're too infatuated with the highlight reel hits. Fact of the matter is that Roy is as active as any player on defense. He's second on the team with 43 tackles behind Bradie. You guys are acting like he's invisible man.

BBD, yeah, I agree that Roy can't hold up for long without getting beat against Elite passing teams, but as long as Reeves is on the same field, teams are targeting him more. If we find a replacement upgrade for Reeves in the draft or FA, then teams would probably start to look in Roy's direction more. This year, we have already played the Patriots (an elite passing team) and Roy was beat on a long 3rd down conversion to Watson, but that was the only play he really was at fault for. He may not have had a great affect on helping to stop the overall pass, but can't place the blame solely on him. Henry was out of that game, and it's a fact... Patriots are just a better team up and down the roster.
Only reason I am infatuated with the highlight reel material is because that where his impact is. Big hits that gets the d charged, FF off of big hits, and scaring opposing players from coming across the middle. I really don't think players fear Roy anymore, I think they actually hope they get 1 on 1 coverage with him.

Either way D, you can't tell me that you don't like the highlight reel player he was 2 or 3 years ago more than the guy he is now. I want to actually see a guy make plays who is getting paid that much...

I don't want to see a 10 man defense with 1 guy who gets to roam around the middle to ensure that he gets in on his share of tackles and makes sure that his coverage responsibilities are taken away.

Dont get me wrong, I want Roy to succeed more than anyone. I want him to succeed because I want to be able to wear my RW throwback instead of wearing my Romo jersey to the bar every weekend. And I want to be able to be proud of the framed RW poster I have. and most importantly I want him to be considered one of the best at his position, but each game he gets further and further away from even playing his position. He's like Thomas Davis now or something.
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Old 11-07-2007, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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he is right, those 2 weren't in the game he didn't game plan for them, if he run the same game play with Marvin and the LT, then colts win.
For the last time, Marvin doesn't do **** vs. the Pats
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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PLAYING WITH A HANDICAP ON THE FIELD. You can only hide him so long.



Uh, no.

Pats have better Pass D schemes. Pats have a better QB and better WR. That's it.

If only we could play decent Pass D we could have won in Dallas.

This means no Ellis in coverage, no Roy in coverage, Henry + TNew, Hamlin and Watkins at S. Play more Dime with Burnett ala Eagles.

Also give me back T Glenn for one game on O ........ and we have a 60/40 chance to win.

Don't think for a minute the Colts with their #1 and # 3WR out, # 1 LT out, #1 WILL out would not have beaten the Pats also. Colts win, hands down, if they are as healthy as the Pats.

Pats are very beatable. But you have to be healthy, talented, play smart and get excellent QB play.
What you don't get is Jerry will never let him go. Basically what I do is live with reality, even though it sucks. You complain, but nothing will ever happen with Roy. So I choose to support the things that he does do well. ...and that is being a playmaker.

Now, you cannot try and act as if Cowboys fans are extreme homers because we choose to support Roy rather than whine about him. We acknowledge his weaknesses. When you are sitting there talking about how the Boys are better than the Pats in every facet of the game outside of QB and WR. Puhleeeeeeeeese!!!

They have a better coach, better QB, better OL (because they are smarter), better receivers, WAY BETTER DL, better LBs and a better Secondary. We've got them beat at TE and Kicker. That's it. They've also got better chemistry and experience. Overall, they are a better team than the Cowboys.
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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Back on track with this thread..... If we do beat the Giant's this weekend, does it put the Cowboys head and shoulders above everyone else in the NFC with no arguments? I already think we are the best team in the NFC and I actually think the Giants would probably beat the Packers, so I guess I would rank them 2nd. It's should be a good game, as divisional games always are, but it is one that we should win if we want to be crowned the elite team in the NFC.

I'm really interested in seeing how the Giants pass rush is going to match up with our O-line. We have been outstanding on the O-line this year and the Giants have had some of the best D-line pressure in the league. It's probably also going to be the match up that dictates the outcome of the game. If Romo has time, he will carve up the Giants, if they can force him into mistake's -- it's a whole new game.
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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So I choose to support the things that he does do well. ...and that is being a playmaker.
He is not even this and that is why most Cowboy fans are homers. Because they keep seeing Roy Williams from OK and 2003, not 2007/06/05......

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Now, you cannot try and act as if Cowboys fans are extreme homers because we choose to support Roy rather than whine about him.
I support our President but he still is dumb arse on many things. I hope everything he does turns to gold but ......

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We acknowledge his weaknesses.
No you don't, at leat not really. Why? B/c you get on boards like this one and tell us he is playing well, going to the Pro-Bowl and all sorts of silliness about his level of play.

Roy Williams, today, would not even be a third rounder. Teams are not making the RW, T Davis mistakes anymore. Game has changed.

4-3, 3-4, whatever... SS must cover or you are playing with 10 in pass coverage situations.

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When you are sitting there talking about how the Boys are better than the Pats in every facet of the game outside of QB and WR. Puhleeeeeeeeese!!!.
You forgot coverage schemes. Pats run better coverage schemes. But they can be run on.

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They have a better coach,
Clearly, Jerry would not want to hire anyone who might take his credit away from Parcells' team winning in 2007. Switzer II.

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better QB, better OL (because they are smarter), better receivers, WAY BETTER DL, better LBs and a better Secondary. We've got them beat at TE and Kicker. That's it. They've also got better chemistry and experience. Overall, they are a better team than the Cowboys.
Well, I think you are wrong on most of that except QB. Pats are the emperor with no cloths IMHO. They are a high powered passing attack. They will steam roll average teams. Like the San Diego Chargers of 1980. They will go 15-1 or 16-0.

But let us see Colts at full strength in the playoffs. Pats versus Steelers in bad weather in January. I just don't think they are a complete team. They are no longer a power team. They are Air Coryell with better Pass D.

Is it enuff? Maybe, as long as they stay injury free, the other playoff teams stay injury plauged and the weather does not bite them in the butt.
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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i'd take Gibril Wilson over Roy Williams any day. Well, at safety. that's cuz I'm a homer and Gibril is one of my top 5 favorite players. I talked to him before the year telling him he better get at least 3 INT's this year. He's a cool dude. oh and if Romo isnt on his butt at least 20 plays this game, I'll be dissappointed
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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Back on track with this thread..... If we do beat the Giant's this weekend, does it put the Cowboys head and shoulders above everyone else in the NFC with no arguments? I already think we are the best team in the NFC and I actually think the Giants would probably beat the Packers, so I guess I would rank them 2nd. It's should be a good game, as divisional games always are, but it is one that we should win if we want to be crowned the elite team in the NFC.

I'm really interested in seeing how the Giants pass rush is going to match up with our O-line. We have been outstanding on the O-line this year and the Giants have had some of the best D-line pressure in the league. It's probably also going to be the match up that dictates the outcome of the game. If Romo has time, he will carve up the Giants, if they can force him into mistake's -- it's a whole new game.
Greenbay may be a tougher team in Dec/Jan. Better D. Young and improving too ... which is scary. But we have every chance to prove we are the best in the NFC. I think we can do it but would not bet too much on it.

I may be the only person not concerned about the Giants all DE rush package. I am concerned about weather. Romo has not played well in "less than perfect" weather like the Buffalo game this year, Seattle last year.......
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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Cowboys win 42- 17. With out the IceBox, The giants have no hope. :)
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Old 11-07-2007, 09:04 PM    (permalink
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Cowboys win 42- 17. With out the IceBox, The giants have no hope. :)
we couldnt tell if she peed sitting down or standing up. It freaked us out.
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Old 11-08-2007, 08:47 AM    (permalink
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I've seen 45-27 and 42-17 predictions now. I hope this are at least half sarcastic. When our defense was absolutely horrible we only lost by 10 in perfect conditions in Dallas. Now we are home, I think conditions are supposed to be good, except a little cold. Don't expect a 25 or 18 margin of victory. The spread is only 1.5. The last couple of games between us in the Meadowlands were 23-20, 17-10, and 28-24. I know all those teams were different for both sides, but I seriously doubt this game is that lopsided of a victory for either side.
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Old 11-08-2007, 09:07 AM    (permalink
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depends on how windy it is, We know the Giants can run the ball, put will the cowboys run the ball in a pass happy Offense, with windy conditions.
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Old 11-08-2007, 09:15 AM    (permalink
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depends on how windy it is, We know the Giants can run the ball, put will the cowboys run the ball in a pass happy Offense, with windy conditions.
I dunno how windy it is supposed to be. It is always a little windy there regardless but I don't think it is supposed to be terrible. Just cold, lower 40's I think.
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Old 11-08-2007, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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I dunno how windy it is supposed to be. It is always a little windy there regardless but I don't think it is supposed to be terrible. Just cold, lower 40's I think.
Yeah but it gets windier when you guys open the back doors when Akers is about to kick ;)
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Old 11-08-2007, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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Yeah but it gets windier when you guys open the back doors when Akers is about to kick ;)
Ssshhhhhhh.....that doesn't go on anymore. I think that is only the case in one end zone anyway. It is genius though the way the stadium was made. I've been inside the stadium there in the west endzone. If you open the big garage door there it creates a windtunnel that blows straight out on the field.

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