2011 Chicago Bears General Discussion

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by MidwayMonster31

I would think that cornerback should be the last thing to worry about with Tillman and Vasher locked up long-term, even though Vasher's hurt now. As long as McBride and Graham can keep developing. McBride should make Manning Jr. expendable at nickelback.
Defensive end may not be a problem either if Bazuin can come back and Anderson can adjust. They should draft or sign another D-Tackle.
Personally, I think they would draft Kenny Phillips out of Miami to give them a ball-hawk at free safety and hope that Kevin Payne can become the starter. If Grossman comes back next year, I would hope that they would draft a tackle, either Clady or Baker. Or if Grossman is gone, another quarterback in Ryan or Woodson

When you don't have a franchise quarterback, and you don't have a franchise left tackle, the audacity to take a safety with your first pick is far too unrealistic.

And I love the safety position, I think it's very underrated, especially in our scheme. But it's still a bit of a luxury considering our other needs.

[Smokey Joe]

Originally Posted by MidwayMonster31

I would think that cornerback should be the last thing to worry about with Tillman and Vasher locked up long-term, even though Vasher's hurt now. As long as McBride and Graham can keep developing. McBride should make Manning Jr. expendable at nickelback.
Defensive end may not be a problem either if Bazuin can come back and Anderson can adjust. They should draft or sign another D-Tackle.
Personally, I think they would draft Kenny Phillips out of Miami to give them a ball-hawk at free safety and hope that Kevin Payne can become the starter. If Grossman comes back next year, I would hope that they would draft a tackle, either Clady or Baker. Or if Grossman is gone, another quarterback in Ryan or Woodson

I will repeat, if we do draft Kenny Phillips, he would be SS for us as Manning is fine at FS.

[Smokey Joe]

looks like I convinced you on Levelle Hawkins being around in the 3rd ;)

I think Jordy goes in that 2nd-3rd round range though... and no Jamar Adams in your 3rd round safeties?

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by Smokey Joe

I will repeat, if we do draft Kenny Phillips, he would be SS for us as Manning is fine at FS.

I'm not so sure he's "fine". Based on what exactly?

Granted, I think he's less likely to be replaced, but his coverage skills aren't all that impressive and my grandma tackles better than he does.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by Smokey Joe

looks like I convinced you on Levelle Hawkins being around in the 3rd ;)

I think Jordy goes in that 2nd-3rd round range though... and no Jamar Adams in your 3rd round safeties?

I said that it was "maybe" unrealistic.

I have no idea where Jordy goes. Right now I've got him as a 3rd rounder, but he could jump if he times well. That's his biggest issue right now.

[Smokey Joe]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

I'm not so sure he's "fine". Based on what exactly?

Granted, I think he's less likely to be replaced, but his coverage skills aren't all that impressive and my grandma tackles better than he does.

fine as is he isn't causing this team to suck... Ask yourself, which is better, Manning at FS and Phillips at SS, OR Phillips at FS and Payne at SS...

[toonsterwu]

was skimming the sun-times article on Grossman today and pondering what we do if Grossman/Berrian/Brown/Briggs all leave. Certainly it's not impossible that is what occurs. I've been working under the assumption that we retool in an effort to keep our window ... but if we lose all those guys (particularly Berrian, as the other three have been talked about enough to be ready for it), the retooling process increases by a bit and does make me wonder if we would be better off trying to rebuild the window, rather than extend the window, particularly since we don't have a QB to anchor the current window around.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by toonsterwu

was skimming the sun-times article on Grossman today and pondering what we do if Grossman/Berrian/Brown/Briggs all leave. Certainly it's not impossible that is what occurs. I've been working under the assumption that we retool in an effort to keep our window ... but if we lose all those guys (particularly Berrian, as the other three have been talked about enough to be ready for it), the retooling process increases by a bit and does make me wonder if we would be better off trying to rebuild the window, rather than extend the window, particularly since we don't have a QB to anchor the current window around.

Ah metaphors.....


The thing with retooling is that if we're going to do that it starts with Berrian and Briggs. They are the future of this team, among others.

That said, it seems pretty evident that we aren't going to be good next year no matter what, which is probably one reason I'm so willing to let Lovie slash his own throat.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by Smokey Joe

fine as is he isn't causing this team to suck... Ask yourself, which is better, Manning at FS and Phillips at SS, OR Phillips at FS and Payne at SS...

I have no idea at this point, as Payne has hardly played. I'm not going to judge them based off of draft slot selection as it seems you're doing however.

[Smokey Joe]

I personally hated the Payne pick and I don't think he will be anything more then a backup safety/special teamer.

I think John Wendling would have been a MUCH better pick.

[Smokey Joe]

what do you guys think of signing Corey Williams in the offseason? Probably won't break the bank and would weaken the Pack a little. He can play both NT and UT I think and is a good penetrator for a guy his size, 6'4" and 315. He's got 7 sacks this season, so he would fit the type of pass rush DT we have been looking for to compliment Harris.

[pellepelle_10]

what UFA DT's and Safeties are going to be out there the of this season? I think getting a DT would be a smart pick.

[Smokey Joe]

I just said Corey Williams.

[bearsfan_51]

We signed Jimmy Kennedy yesterday, I'm not expecting much but it's an interesting pickup considering his stock coming out of college.

[Gay Ork Wang]

Seems like little Berrian wants to stay in the Windy City

[regoob2]

Originally Posted by Renji

Seems like little Berrian wants to stay in the Windy City

Where did you hear that?

Also does anyone know where I could find that logo of grossman with the F**k it im going deep. I hope someone knows what im talking about it was in one of the threads i just cant find it. I was thinking about making it a shirt! thanks

[k0ng]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Ah metaphors.....


The thing with retooling is that if we're going to do that it starts with Berrian and Briggs. They are the future of this team, among others.

That said, it seems pretty evident that we aren't going to be good next year no matter what, which is probably one reason I'm so willing to let Lovie slash his own throat.

I think this team can be pretty good next year. If we resign the right people, a couple of key FA acquisitions, a solid draft, and get our people healthy(Dusty, Mike Brown, Tommie Harris, and Urlacher mainly)...I think we could contend in the NFC again.

Health and the offensive line were our downfall this year.

[bearsfan_51]

Age, ****** tackling, poor coaching, bitchy attitudes, overrated talent, no quarterback play, bad depth, bad luck, injuries, a porous offensive line, a runningback that only tries half the time, terrible free agent signings, Danieal Manning, Adam Archuleta, a very tough schedule, the fact that we played a cream puff schedule last year, and many many other factors contributed to our downfall this year.

That said, I think we can make the playoffs next year due to equally poor quarterback play from everyone else in the division (this is of course banking that Favre either retires or returns to 2004,2005,2006 form).

Regardless, I wouldn't hold my breath. I'd rather cut a ****-ton of veterans a and build a team that can compete for a Superbowl in 3-4 years than maintain a team that can win 9-10 games with a little luck.

[Geo]

I can't remember a time when an entire secondary was injured and playing back-ups like the Bears had for a stretch this season. Tillman came back, and helped win the Packers game (Chicagowned), but Vasher still hasn't returned.

Safeties, that's not so rare I guess, the Colts were playing their 5th and 6th safeties last year in Marlin Jackson (a corner moved out of necessity) and Dexter Reid (free agent off the street). Maybe that's inherent to the base Cover 2/Tampa 2 defense, because of how involved safeties are in tackling and responsibilities.

[SFbear]

Originally Posted by Geo

... helped win the Packers game (Chicagowned)

So are you a closet Bears fan?

Its cool. Im kind of a closet Colts fan. After the Superbowl when the pain (from stabbing myself in the eye repeatedly in response to Grossman throwing up that floater) slowly subsided, I was actually pretty happy to see Peyton and Dungy get rings.

Yeah when you ask safeties to play a much larger role in the box to tackle RBs their going to get worn down as the season goes on. Its a pity because Mike Brown's injury problems didn't surface until Lovie came to town. I was hoping that the rookie Kevin Payne, 220 lbs and former RB, might develop into a solid SS that we can rely on to stay upright throughout the season but he of course landed on IR.

[Gay Ork Wang]

haha i hated the colts but seriously, compared to the Patriots, i love everyone

[awfullyquiet]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Age, ****** tackling, poor coaching, bitchy attitudes, overrated talent, no quarterback play, bad depth, bad luck, injuries, a porous offensive line, a runningback that only tries half the time, terrible free agent signings, Danieal Manning, Adam Archuleta, a very tough schedule, the fact that we played a cream puff schedule last year, and many many other factors contributed to our downfall this year.

That said, I think we can make the playoffs next year due to equally poor quarterback play from everyone else in the division (this is of course banking that Favre either retires or returns to 2004,2005,2006 form).

Regardless, I wouldn't hold my breath. I'd rather cut a ****-ton of veterans a and build a team that can compete for a Superbowl in 3-4 years than maintain a team that can win 9-10 games with a little luck.

Agreed.

Top of the list of cutting vets? Miller, Moose, Mike Brown, Metcalf... i can't think of anyone else that we'd drop... davis or bradley will probably hit the dirt too... which is sad, i'd rather have bradley, but knowing lovie and ron turner, it'll be davis that stays, where i think bradley is a more natural number 2 receiver... (and we still wouldn't have a go-to guy. period. but with the 'possible emergence of greg olsen' looming, clark, and peterson/wolfe out of the backfield (secondly notice that benson cannot catch the ball... (thirdly notice, no one else can catch the ball))... they might collectively compensate with a receiver by committee approach... who knows... maybe greg olsen will be a #1 receiver ala rivers and gates... or campbell and cooley... or croyle and gonzo (although the examples have been getting fuzzy this year)...

the point that remains is this...

left tackle. long armed ***** with a low center of gravity needs to be groomed and smartened up is our first priority. shift tait back right... let beekman, garza, and a healthy brown rotate in the middle... either way, it's gonna be a ***** to groom a left tackle since we need one now... either trade for one, pick one up in FA, or something. i don't feel like drafting one would be the best idea. i mean, as much as i can't think of an answer in the FA pool right now... it doesn't mean that it's a terrible idea to draft one, i mean sure, there's plenty of them i wouldn't mind... but Cherilus isn't one of them. i would not pick him and expect him to play LT. period. i would probably pick any of the top 5 guards to play LT... not jake long (not like we'd get him anyway), not sam baker... the only one i'd really pick is barry richardson... and even then, his pass protection skills are marginal at best, needs a year or two, but could still probably start LT... i still say max starks would be a good idea if we do stick with grossman... speed rushing isn't something that the NFCN does particuarly well (with the exception of mark anderson, who's still quicker than kampmann ), so, i'm not too worried that he's not the fastest LT in the league... and i mean. any time when you have a familiar left tackle who you've also spent 4 years with... who's a proven vet... i wouldn't be against reaching out and spending some money on him...

i sense a lt;dr coming in the future from everyone except bf who'll criticize me mercelessly... what is he not here for...

anyway.

i agree, we can still make the play offs next year... tavaris jackson isn't the answer for the vikes, and they have as many problems as we do, it's just less apparent because everyone's in awe of the expensive run-blocking line they have... the pack might not do well next year... but that's unlikely too... the lions... well... they have even more problems than the bears do... like a nearly dead john kitna... no backups... but they do have a ballhawking defense, that's for sure, but does that stop the run or pass? no... they're looking like a more fun version of the 90's cards... the only difference is is that the 90's cards weren't actually fun to watch sometimes...

if we have a healthier season next year... we'll be no worse than the 05 squad...

bf, who else would you cut for vets?

[Gay Ork Wang]

i wouldnt cut mike brown. He is injury prone, bu tgod he is soo good. the bears were like 8-1 last year with him and he did a good job against the Chargers too. He is an emotional leader and just needs to stay healthy

[bearfan]

Originally Posted by Renji

i wouldnt cut mike brown. He is injury prone, bu tgod he is soo good. the bears were like 8-1 last year with him and he did a good job against the Chargers too. He is an emotional leader and just needs to stay healthy

Problem is that he cant stay healthy. Yes he is one of the most loved players on the Bears, but if a guy cant stay healthy, there is no point in hoping to rely on him when in reality you cant.

[Gay Ork Wang]

but he is a force. Bob Sanders is the same kind i think and he is a great player. U dont have to pay him that big money but keep him