2011 Chicago Bears General Discussion - Page 104

Smokey Joe · 12-28-2008, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

NT is not as big of a need as WR. No way in hell. Our run defense is fine.

And no quarterback? Unless Caleb Hanie is the next great thing I'd definately consider that over a fullback or another linebacker.

NT is a huge need. Not having a good NT has hurt the play of Uralcher and the hole DLine. Adams has been decent, but nothing spectacular (he just looks spectacular because we had to watch Dusty all season). Getting someone like B.J. Raji would do wonders for this D.

I think getting a QB is a huge need, but with Lovie being on the hot seat next year, I don't see where it fits in. We aren't going to spend a 1st round pick on one, and QB's in the 2nd and 3rd round is a crap shoot usually. So, break the bank on Cassel? Go after Collins? There aren't many QB's available to make much of a difference for us. If we were going to go into a rebuilding, QB would be at the top of my list, but like I stated, that isn't happening. With Lovie's job potentially riding on next season, Orton is gonna have to be the man.

As for WR, what's the point with Orton as the QB?

pellepelle_10 · 12-28-2008, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach

21 total TDs to 12 INTs and just a hair under 3000 yards is about the best QB season in Bears history other than Kramer's one MVPish year...all with a horrible OL, WR corps, and an ankle injury that had him hobbling around for over a month.

If we had a normal Bears defense with Orton's QB play, we'd be Super Bowl favorites.

I'd agree. I wish we had Lloyd longer because he was sorely missed in the WR corps.

bearsfan_51 · 12-28-2008, 03:36 PM

The only problem we have with our front seven is lack of pass rush. Our run defense is top 5 in the NFL. We aren't going to draft a DT, at least not early.

And I would rather take a 5th or 6th round QB than a fullback. Unless we re-sign Grossman (please no), or get a FA (who?), then we're going to need to fill that 3rd QB spot anyway.

Smokey Joe · 12-28-2008, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pellepelle_10

FB is never a high round pick so I wouldnt sweat it too much bearsfan. You can get solid FB's in the later rnds generally. I'm hoping we package something to Seattle for Leonard Weaver. I know this may be a pipe dream but they literally have 4 FB's on their roster.

I'm 99% sure Weaver is a FA at the end of the season, and would be the perfect FB for our offense. He basically can do all the things McKie does, but a lot better. Plus, he can block!!!

bearsfan_51 · 12-28-2008, 03:37 PM

Orton is fine for now, but we really need someone with better physical attributes. He's basically Chad Pennington with not quite as good decision making skills. Lets not allow ourselves to become too complacent at quarterback just because we've historically been ****.

pellepelle_10 · 12-28-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokey Joe

NT is a huge need. Not having a good NT has hurt the play of Uralcher and the hole DLine. Adams has been decent, but nothing spectacular (he just looks spectacular because we had to watch Dusty all season). Getting someone like B.J. Raji would do wonders for this D.

I think getting a QB is a huge need, but with Lovie being on the hot seat next year, I don't see where it fits in. We aren't going to spend a 1st round pick on one, and QB's in the 2nd and 3rd round is a crap shoot usually. So, break the bank on Cassel? Go after Collins? There aren't many QB's available to make much of a difference for us. If we were going to go into a rebuilding, QB would be at the top of my list, but like I stated, that isn't happening. With Lovie's job potentially riding on next season, Orton is gonna have to be the man.

As for WR, what's the point with Orton as the QB?

If Lovie is in the hot seat maybe he'll disconnect himself from Bob Babich. I've seen enough of his failure schemes. It's both him and the piss poor effort by the highly paid players (Tommie Harris, Ogunleye, Vasher to name a couple). I hope Maranelli gets fired. I'd love to see him take over as DC.

bearsfan_51 · 12-28-2008, 03:39 PM

Marinelli as DC is something I could see. If Lovie fires Babich (and I doubt he does), he's only going to do it if he already has someone else in mind.

Smokey Joe · 12-28-2008, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

The only problem we have with our front seven is lack of pass rush. Our run defense is top 5 in the NFL. We aren't going to draft a DT.

And I would rather take a 5th or 6th round QB than a fullback. Unless we re-sign Grossman (please no), or get a FA (who?), then we're going to need to fill that 3rd QB spot anyway.

There's not much of a difference between a 5th or 6th round QB then an UDFA one. I'd take Hanie over any QB that was taken last year in the 5th or 6th round. Then again, same could be said about FB in the draft. But remember, I never said to draft one in my previous post. I was just listing what was IMO, the order of importance positions needed upgrading at.

pellepelle_10 · 12-28-2008, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokey Joe

I'm 99% sure Weaver is a FA at the end of the season, and would be the perfect FB for our offense. He basically can do all the things McKie does, but a lot better. Plus, he can block!!!

I agree. The guy is a monster. Seattle has a ton of FB's. Duckett, Schmitt, and Weaver.

Smokey Joe · 12-28-2008, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Orton is fine for now, but we really need someone with better physical attributes. He's basically Chad Pennington with not quite as good decision making skills. Lets not allow ourselves to become too complacent at quarterback just because we've historically been ****.

I agree, but if next year could mean Lovie's job, I don't see us going out and spending a large chunk of money on a FA QB or spending our 1st round pick on a QB.

bearsfan_51 · 12-28-2008, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokey Joe

There's not much of a difference between a 5th or 6th round QB then an UDFA one. I'd take Hanie over any QB that was taken last year in the 5th or 6th round. Then again, same could be said about FB in the draft. But remember, I never said to draft one in my previous post. I was just listing what was IMO, the order of importance positions needed upgrading at.

Fair enough. I would just rather stock up on young quarterbacks than young fullbacks.

Smokey Joe · 12-28-2008, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Marinelli as DC is something I could see. If Lovie fires Babich (and I doubt he does), he's only going to do it if he already has someone else in mind.

The thing about Marinelli I like is that he is a great DLine coach. And right now, DLine is probably the biggest weakness on our D.

pellepelle_10 · 12-28-2008, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Marinelli as DC is something I could see. If Lovie fires Babich (and I doubt he does), he's only going to do it if he already has someone else in mind.

I'm hoping the above happens if his ass is on the line nxt yr. Defense is clearly a problem and we're not far off from the same D we had when Rivera was here. True some accountability lies on the players but the defensive schemes have been just as suspect. He's run countless blitzes and they've proven worse.

pellepelle_10 · 12-28-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokey Joe

I agree, but if next year could mean Lovie's job, I don't see us going out and spending a large chunk of money on a FA QB or spending our 1st round pick on a QB.

A pissed off McNabb anyone? lol (waits to get flamed) I might be in this alone but I'd LOVE to see him here on a vengence.

Geo · 12-28-2008, 03:46 PM

I'm leery about Marinelli as a DC because I don't know how good of a grasp he has in terms of the secondary. He's a DL guy, and the secondary constantly struggled during his tenure in Detroit.

But with the Bears, if they have a good secondary coach, that might not be as big an issue as it might with some other teams.

pellepelle_10 · 12-28-2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokey Joe

The thing about Marinelli I like is that he is a great DLine coach. And right now, DLine is probably the biggest weakness on our D.

This is one reason I mentioned him and 2nd, Lovie tried to get him when he first got the job but Chucky wouldn't allow any teams to speak with him. He could have already been the DC. I don't see any reason why Lovie wouldn't make an attempt at him if he's avail. Clearly he's not getting an HC job. lol

Smokey Joe · 12-28-2008, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geo

I'm leery about Marinelli as a DC because I don't know how good of a grasp he has in terms of the secondary. He's a DL guy, and the secondary constantly struggled during his tenure in Detroit.

But with the Bears, if they have a good secondary coach, that might not be as big an issue as it might with some other teams.

Lets be honest here, everything constantly struggled during his tenure in Detroit. But I can't really blame him because look who had to work with, freaking Matt Millen, and his owner is an idiot.

I think we do have a good secondary coach in Wilks, but he has just been plagued by a crappy DC in Babich (or Lovie, if he ever took over the D), and overall crappy DLine play.

Geo · 12-28-2008, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokey Joe

Lets be honest here, everything constantly struggled during his tenure in Detroit. But I can't really blame him because look who had to work with, freaking Matt Millen, and his owner is an idiot.

I think we do have a good secondary coach in Wilks, but he has just been plagued by a crappy DC in Babich (or Lovie, if he ever took over the D), and overall crappy DLine play.

I think Marinelli did some good things wrt to the front seven, at times, but the secondary was always bad under him in Detroit.

And even when he became involved in the Draft, he didn't seem to have an eye for talent at those positions either, although maybe a guy or two pans out in the years to come.

Smokey Joe · 12-28-2008, 03:56 PM

Another thing that has been on my mind for a while that I want to mention is that we need a new strength and conditioning coordinator. These past two seasons, I've seen the players on the team die as the game progresses, especially on D. This season was also a lot worse then last year. When you see everyone on the team with their hands on their hips in the 4th quarter, or even earlier a lot of times, it just makes me sick. These are suppose to be professional athletes, and they're not properly conditioned to handle a full game? My god.

pellepelle_10 · 12-28-2008, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geo

I think Marinelli did some good things wrt to the front seven, at times, but the secondary was always bad under him in Detroit.

And even when he became involved in the Draft, he didn't seem to have an eye for talent at those positions either, although maybe a guy or two pans out in the years to come.

Kevin Smith has turned around quite nicely. They traded Roy for a 1st and hasn't panned at all in Dallas. He was a cancer in Detriot and they could end up the victors. QB remains a huge problem as many positions. I think Detroit is one hard place for any coach to shine when you have Matt Millen holding you down. Oh well I'm hoping their loss is our gain. All I know is I don't want to see Bob Babich another season as DC.

pellepelle_10 · 12-28-2008, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokey Joe

Another thing that has been on my mind for a while that I want to mention is that we need a new strength and conditioning coordinator. These past two seasons, I've seen the players on the team die as the game progresses, especially on D. This season was also a lot worse then last year. When you see everyone on the team with their hands on their hips in the 4th quarter, or even earlier a lot of times, it just makes me sick. These are suppose to be professional athletes, and they're not properly conditioned to handle a full game? My god.

Add in the fact that these guys are making millions of dollars and they can't sustain a full game. It makes me want to puke. Especially when I can see a highschool game down the street and kids play double overtime without passing out.

Smokey Joe · 12-28-2008, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pellepelle_10

Kevin Smith has turned around quite nicely. They traded Roy for a 1st and hasn't panned at all in Dallas. He was a cancer in Detriot and they could end up the victors. QB remains a huge problem as many positions. I think Detroit is one hard place for any coach to shine when you have Matt Millen holding you down. Oh well I'm hoping their loss is our gain. All I know is I don't want to see Bob Babich another season as DC.

Well, they got rid of Millen, but now they have Ford planning on not cleaning house, after an 0-16 season! My god, it's despicable for FOOTBALL fans to witness an idiot owner just completely ruin a historic franchise.

Smokey Joe · 12-28-2008, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pellepelle_10

Add in the fact that these guys are making millions of dollars and they can't sustain a full game. It makes me want to puke. Especially when I can see a highschool game down the street and kids play double overtime without passing out.

Don't forget in high school a lot of players play both ways. Now there is a big difference between the two, but the student athletes who actually PAY to play have more heart then the PROFESSIONALS who are PAYED to play. It is sickening.

Geo · 12-28-2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokey Joe

Another thing that has been on my mind for a while that I want to mention is that we need a new strength and conditioning coordinator. These past two seasons, I've seen the players on the team die as the game progresses, especially on D.

I think part of this is systemic to the defense. Keeping everything in front of you and trying to punish the opponent on every play, it takes its toll. It just seems Tampa 2 defenses suffer more injuries than some other defenses, barring other factors like age (Patriots) and the like, although maybe that isn't really the case.

Quote:

This season was also a lot worse then last year. When you see everyone on the team with their hands on their hips in the 4th quarter, or even earlier a lot of times, it just makes me sick. These are suppose to be professional athletes, and they're not properly conditioned to handle a full game? My god.

I think you might be able to trace this to the season-long struggles the Bears defense has had on third down. If you can't get off the field, even a well-conditioned defense built on speed is going to get worn down as the game progresses and as the season progresses.

pellepelle_10 · 12-28-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokey Joe

Don't forget in high school a lot of players play both ways. Now there is a big difference between the two, but the student athletes who actually PAY to play have more heart then the PROFESSIONALS who are PAYED to play. It is sickening.

My thoughts exactly buddy. It is sickening.