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Old 12-25-2007, 10:07 PM    (permalink
toonsterwu
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So anyone want to play armchair GM and suggest what we need to do this offseason? I would start it off, but I don't know much about the draft prospects outside of what has been said on these boards.
Where we're slated isn't a great position, as we are waiting to see how the board falls. As much as safety is discussed, I tend to think that is a longshot, and that OT/QB will be the considerations.

That said, first thing we need to do is figure out our QB next year, let alone the long run. I think resigning Rex for say, 2 years makes the most sense, assuming he wants back. If he doesn't, I'd go with Griese/Orton as stopgaps rather than spend heavily on someone. But my guess is that if Rex leaves, we'll pursue a veteran, probably McNabb first. The cost may be prohibitive in that regards, particularly for a GM that values his picks. I wouldn't be surprised if we keep Orton and cut Griese.

One of the bigger decisions will be whether or not we keep Benson. As much as I am lukewarm on him, keeping him seems the best route to go as we can't be guaranteed of signing anyone. I'd try for Turner or Fargas to compete with Benson. A tough decision may lie with carrying 3 or 4 RB's, as I expect to add one, whether it be through FA or draft, and that means Peterson/Wolfe would still be around. McKie is fine at FB. Polite/Runnels can battle it out for the backup FB spot. Um, Jermaine Allen. I think he can be practice squaded again, so sure, if they like something about him, I'm fine with that. PJ Pope, um, he can go. Not sure if he's practice squad eligible anymore in 08-09.

At TE, I'd really shop Clark. Olsen needs PT, and we need assets. Not sure Clark can bring in much, but if he could get a 4th rounder, I'd strongly consider it. I think others would disagree, though. Gilmore is a solid depth asset, nothing special, but can play a role. I'm curious on the staff's perspective on Fontel Mines. He's really bulked up from his UVA days, and if his speed is decent, that's a nice developmental target. That said, Mines can probably be practice squaded and be safe there. TE isn't a huge need. If we keep Clark, that's a wrap. If not, maybe a veteran or a day 2 pick (more likely veteran).

At WR, I think we have to keep Berrian, although rumors seem to be iffy on that. I'd let Muhammad go if the cap numbers worked out. If not, keep him. Hester needs more developmental time at WR. If we keep both Berrian/Muhammad around, wouldn't be surprised if Bradley is a casualty. Hass can be kept around for depth, or let go. Not sure I care too much either way. Rashied Davis is a nice slot guy, but I could see him being gone as we probably want to add one WR this year.

On the OL, Miller/Brown should be gone. I'd move Tait to RT and draft a LT, but I could see us draft a RT if the guy is viewed as someone that can be a plus player right away. We need a 2nd OG, which might be through FA, but could be through the draft. I just am not sold we'd go with 2 rookies in the OL to start 08-09. I'd have Metcalf/Garza battle it out for the other spot. I'd actually have Beekman battle it out as well, but the staff seems lukewarm on that. Let's see ... Oakley - eh, been there done that. He's 26. Could still be a solid guard, but is he better than Metcalf/Beekman (if Garza wins the starting spot)? I'd be fine with him as the backup, but I could see us letting him go and bringing in someone else. Guess we keep Tyler Reed on the practice squad. Jones and Gibbons are a bit more iffy. Dunno how much more PS eligibility they have, and both some fringy shots to make the roster. Oh, St. Clair should be around as veteran depth. I mean, if we can find 2 starters, we have solid depth with St. Clair/Beekman/Metcalf potentially.

Defensively, we have some tough, tough decisions to make. Let's start at the relatively easier spots.

Safety - Let Brown/Archuleta go. If Brown is willing to sign a small deal, perhaps incentive laden, then bring him back as a potential possibility. McGowan/Manning will be back, but both safety spots need to be open for competition. Kevin Payne/Leonard Peters/Josh Gattis can all be brought back to compete and fill depth spots. We need to at least draft 1 guy, and I'd guess we'd lean more towards SS than FS (obviously, an all-around guy would be ideal).

CB - The Ricky Manning question. I like him, but it's awfully hard to justify keeping him around if the staff feels McBride/Graham can be alright as depth. Obviously, Vasher/Tillman will be back. If they like Greg Fassitt, keep him around on the PS. If not, no loss. Enough youth on hand. While we could draft another CB, I'd rather see a veteran depth guy if McBride/Graham are sticking, and Ade Jimoh could be that guy. I'd be fine with a depth chart of McBride (nickel), Jimoh (dime), Graham (developmental guy on regular roster/ST).

LB - Let Briggs go. Just too many needs, and I don't like tying up that much with the LB's. Slide Urlacher to WLB if they feel it's best, and put Williams in at MIKE. Hillenmeyer is a solid SAM Backer. Okwo can be the top backup. That's our top 4. Ayanbadejo will likely be back for ST purposes, although honestly, I'm not a big fan of a guy taking up a spot as basically a pure ST guy. I don't see the need of keeping McClover/Roach/Wilson around, although I could see one, if not 2, stay. I'd rather just draft a day 2 guy and stick them in. Maybe keep Wilson (who they seem to like for depth purposes) and have a kid step in? Maybe they like Roach. If so, he could be the "kid". I have no strong feelings on him.

DE - This is a tough one. Unless he would cause problems, I'd like to keep Alex Brown around. He's been too good. I'd really like to open up competition between Alex and Mark again. That being said, with Dan Bazuin from last year, I really don't see that happening. Brown likely gets moved, which is a shame, I think. Chris Frome is eh, if they want him around on the PS, fine, but he shouldn't be on the regular roster. I wouldn't mind adding a young end on day 2 with pass rushing potential, if one is there, to mold.

DT - Harris is a certainty. Dvoracek seems to get the coaches excited, and Adams played well, so that'd be my top 3. Idonije would be kept as a swing guy. Time to move on from Garay, IMO, unless they think he can break through big. No need, better off developing a kid. Let Darwin Walker go. Now, three other guys around - Matt Toeaina, Jimmy Kennedy, Babatunde Oshinowo. My guess is Toeaina's been impressive enough to keep around. Let Kennedy go. See if Babatunde Oshinowo will stay, perhaps as a PS guy (still has eligibility I think). Big, young body with some athleticism? I'd try to keep him around.

LS - It's Mannelly's job until he calls it quits/leaves in all likelihood. Once you have a good one, you tend to keep him.

Draft wise, as noted, I think OT/QB are the favorites in round 1. As much as I don't like it, I think the top targets would be Long/Brohm (in that order). If neither are around, I could see us trying to slide down if possible, easier said than done. I think Otah would be 3rd, though, as someone to potentially plug in at RT. The way the order is shaking out, though, the potential exists for someone to have fallen a bit to encourage a team to deal up.

Whatever we don't do in round 1 (OT or QB) should be the priority in round 2, unless the value is too good. If we go OT in round 1, I think an upside QB would get the nod. If we go QB in round 1, I think we'd go for an OT that can step in right away at RT (if Cherilus is there, he makes sense). Just to be clear, this isn't what I want, but what I think would happen.

In the 3rd, I'd look to land a safety. The 2nd pick is flexible, depending on what we do in FA. Could be a WR, could be a RB, could be OL. BPA is perfectly fine.

Later on, we could look at DL to develop, and maybe a LB for depth. Another safety wouldn't be bad, along with OL talent.
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Old 12-26-2007, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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LB - Let Briggs go. Just too many needs, and I don't like tying up that much with the LB's. Slide Urlacher to WLB if they feel it's best, and put Williams in at MIKE. Hillenmeyer is a solid SAM Backer. Okwo can be the top backup. That's our top 4. Ayanbadejo will likely be back for ST purposes, although honestly, I'm not a big fan of a guy taking up a spot as basically a pure ST guy. I don't see the need of keeping McClover/Roach/Wilson around, although I could see one, if not 2, stay. I'd rather just draft a day 2 guy and stick them in. Maybe keep Wilson (who they seem to like for depth purposes) and have a kid step in? Maybe they like Roach. If so, he could be the "kid". I have no strong feelings on him.
I think Briggs is worth the money to stay, but I can see why we let him go... if we're lucky maybe he doesn't reach 75% of his snaps and we can franchise him and trade him. Ayanbadejo is arguably the best special teams player in the nfl who doesn't return kicks or kicks the ball, I got no problem with him staying. Roach has also played extremely well on special teams and since McClover is a FA next year, I can see Roach staying in his place... Now, why would we move Urlacher to WILL and move someone like Jamar Williams, who lacks in coverage, to SAM? Yeah, I know Urlacher isn't like he used to be, but he is still one of the best MIKE's in all of football.
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Old 12-26-2007, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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Actually, I was saying Urlacher to weakside with Jamar Williams at MIKE, which was a suggestion made in an article somewhere in an attempt to keep Urlacher healthier.
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Old 12-26-2007, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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This would still make the football team worse than it is. I mean Jamar Williams will certainly not be a Urlacher and why would the Will get less Reps and make him healthier??
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Old 12-26-2007, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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Actually, I was saying Urlacher to weakside with Jamar Williams at MIKE, which was a suggestion made in an article somewhere in an attempt to keep Urlacher healthier.
I don't see this happening for the same reason the we didn't want to start Ricky manning jr., we would have to change to players natural positions to fill one need.
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Old 12-26-2007, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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I actually agree with almost every word you said Toonster. It's nice to see someone else agree that keeping Berrian is absolutely imperative. I would keep Berrian over Briggs at this point, and I'm hoping that the FO agrees.

Jerry held a conference recently and said that they being more dynamic on offense was their #1 goal in the offseason, that indicates to me that Berrian, and likely Grossman, will be brought back.

I like Briggs but if it's between keeping Berrian or Briggs, I'd choose Berrian quite frankly.
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Old 12-26-2007, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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Actually, I was saying Urlacher to weakside with Jamar Williams at MIKE, which was a suggestion made in an article somewhere in an attempt to keep Urlacher healthier.
I meant to put MIKE but for some reason I put SAM...
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Old 12-26-2007, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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This would still make the football team worse than it is. I mean Jamar Williams will certainly not be a Urlacher and why would the Will get less Reps and make him healthier??
The MIKE backer role in the scheme arguably is put through more physical damage based upon the myriad responsibilities involved in covering the deep middle. Considering the back, it is somewhat understandable as an idea that should be at least considered, if we let Briggs go. We have to put Urlacher in a position where he can have the most impact. For years, it's been debated whether or not playing inside was right for him, as it increases the physical toll he undergoes. Not saying playing the middle has had an impact on his health, but that, because of his health, if we let Briggs go, it should be factored, if the staff thinks Jamar can handle the MIKE.

That said, we could, if Briggs is let go, just slide Jamar into the weakside spot.
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Old 12-27-2007, 12:26 AM    (permalink
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When I was doing the grade your FAs thread, I saw that Max Starks from the Steelers is due to be a FA. That got me thinking to maybe we sign him, and draft an OL still in the 1st or 2nd and groom them for a few years until Tait retires, or we part ways with him. Would look like
Starks - Beekman? -Kruetz - Garza - Tait

Starks is 25 years old, and is a huge guy. I think that could be a decent, and cheaper solution to our OL.

I was also looking at some of the RBs, and some that I wouldnt mind looking at would be players like Fargas, Julius Jones, Melwelde Moore, Chris Brown. I think for our running game to sucseed, we need a 2 back system, but i dont think that AP is our solution to that, and I dont think that Wolfe is either. All those guys are young, and while there may be some injury concerns, they would be splitting the carries which would reduce the injury risk for both Benson and a FA RB if we were to pick one up.
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who retires first: brett favre or aaron rodgers?
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Old 12-27-2007, 02:34 AM    (permalink
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I'm fine with going after Max Starks. It's going to cost a pretty penny with his decent play down the stretch this year (and especially if he has a good postseason). He's a guy to stick in at RT and be potentially solid, with slim LT potential. If that happened, we could wait a bit to draft an OT, perhaps until the 3rd (where someone like Tony Hills could be available as a developmental guy) or 4th/5th (where a guy like Barry Richardson could be available). To be honest, some may disagree, but I'd rather spend on Starks than Briggs. Starks should cost less (although after last year's contracts, it's debatable if that's the case), but the OL should be a bigger priority anyways from a scheme and need perspective.

Looking at draftdaddy's FA list (assuming it's correct, too lazy to verify)

OL - Flozell tops the list, but the guess is he stays with Dallas. Even if he doesn't, his age doesn't make that much sense for us. I'd be intrigued with Jordan Gross. But I'm assuming Gross will be more costly than Starks, and I think I'd rather take the plunge with Starks (and I wonder if the Panthers tag Gross considering they are looking at 2 OT's hitting FA). Locklear's an intriguing guy to look at. I'd prefer Starks over him, I think, but he'd be intriguing. Could go inside as well. I'm lukewarm on Wharton. Still think he's better at guard. I'd take a look at Maurice Williams/Stacey Andrews as guards/depth at tackle (not starters at tackle, though). I'd consider an offer to the Titans RFA David Stewart. 4th round compensation is something I can live with. I'd consider the Titans Jacob Bell as a FA guard. Faneca's age is something I wouldn't go for. I'd consider the Colts two guards, Lilja and Scott. Hadnot's a solid guy ... but he might be awfully costly. Liwienski might be a solid 1 year veteran to bring in if we try to develop a kid. I'd take a look at Geoff Hangartner as a RFA (5th) and Jason Brown (4th). Eltron Brown for a 4th is something to ponder as well. Granted, a lot of these RFA's won't be moving.

WR/TE - Hmm ... pickings seem weak. We don't have a need at TE, unless we say, move Desmond Clark. If that happened, a veteran signing makes sense. At WR, keeping Berrian should be our priority. Moss is unlikely. Crayton seems unlikely as well (Dallas or Miami would be the guess). The rest is eh. A solid veteran like David Patten as a 4th receiver would be fine, but not necessary. A gamble on Drew Carter? We're better off developing Mark Bradley. If Devard Darling is cheap, sure. Jabar Gaffney is decent veteran depth. Bryant Johnson is an intriguing option.

RB/FB - Burner Turner and Justin Fargas would be my preferences, if we are willing to spend. Fargas hits the hole hard, despite limitations, and Burner's just looking for an opportunity. I'd be okay with Julius Jones. Like the guy, don't love him. Likely cheaper than the other two, though. After that, the pickings are slim. Stecker might be a more useful backup than Adrian Peterson, but isn't a huge upgrade on our Adrian. Toefield/Cartwright/Chatman fall in the same idea as Stecker in all likelihood - backups when we need someone to challenge Benson. I'd take a look at Derrick Ward. I liked what I saw this year.

QB - Convincing Rex to stay on a 2 year deal might be the best course of action. I have a hard time seeing us give up what's necessary for Derek Anderson and Donovan McNabb.

S -I'd take a look at Madieu Williams. A lot of tools, but issues have come up along the way. A move to simpler responsibilities could get things going. I'd love to make an offer to RFA Atogwe (3rd), and I think we should, but I doubt we land him as the Rams would do a lot to keep him. Vincent Fuller (4th) is another guy I'd consider making an offer to. I'd see on Ken Hamlin (as the strong safety), Gibril Wilson, Chris Crocker, Erik Coleman. Probably a couple other guys I'd take a peek at for competition's sake.

LB - At most, a veteran backup, but in all likelihood, nothing. Someone like Teddy Lehman would be an intriguing and potentially cheap look. Same goes for Keyaron Fox.

DT - Assuming Dvoracek comes back, we look to have our top 3 set, so I wouldn't spend too much, and I think we have some intriguing young pieces, enough that we wouldn't look at any top guy, and likely no one. Maybe someone like a Randy Starks would be the type I'd look at, young, with a lot of raw potential, and where a move to a simpler scheme may make more sense for him.

DE - Seems very, very unlikely. Maybe a cheap veteran, but no one stands out.

CB - Unnecessary. If we let Manning Jr. go, maybe a veteran for depth with McBride/Graham. But Ade Jimoh could be that guy.
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Well nothing all that informative.

I'd try to go hard at a top RB. I'd target Burner Turner first, with Fargas/Ward/Jones (probably in that order) as backup options. If we let Adrian Peterson go, maybe a guy like Cartwright/Stecker/Chatman makes some sense, but if not, then I don't see the point.

At OT, I like the Max Starks attempt. That's the route I would go. I'm not sure I'd look too heavily at guard. The FA guards might be costly, and I'd like to avoid paying insanely for an OG. Maybe make an offer to RFA Geoff Hangartner (5th round compensation). I think my preferred fallback on Starks would be David Stewart, which would be a tough get to say the least.

At the other spots -

Try to keep Rex on a 2 year deal. That's a length that makes the most sense for both parties if he stays.

WR is a tough one to figure. Berrian should be kept, even at the franchise cost. If Bradley is too doghoused, I'd look at Bryant Johnson/Devard Darling if the price is right. Depending on how things shake out, I'd really look at someone like Jabar Gaffney as a 2/3 type receiver, a solid but unspectacular guy. But that's a scenario where things haven't gone as I preferred.

DL/LB - Not much on the defensive line side. Personally, I'd take a look at Randy Starks at the right price. Worth it. That said, it's unnecessary.

S - Out of the realistic options, I'd make a run at Madieu Williams.

So ... if we could come out of FA with (as "new" additions)

S - Madieu Williams
OT - Max Starks
RB - Michael Turner

I'd be pleased. And while the only one that may be a steep cost would be Turner. Starks would be high, although I'm not sold it'd be insane, and Williams inconsistency so far, at a position of relative low cost, should make him okay.
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Old 12-27-2007, 03:33 AM    (permalink
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toonster

I think keeping Desmon Clark and Greg Olsen would be best given our lack of talent at the TE position the past 5 decades. I think they do a very good job of complimenting each other. I can understand your reasoning behind Clark holding Olsens potential but I don't see it being a bad thing of having a double threat at TE when our receivers haven't accomplished ****. These guys have been more consistent than anyone on the team. I say keep both of them until someone else shows some consistency.

I'd like acquiring a FA RB but in all honesty the money both Turner, Fargas or even Ward from NY Giants will demand may not make any sense. I'd personally get someone out of the draft. I think money is best spent on acquiring a young vet O-Line such as Max Starks (as you stated) or even Travelle Wharton from Carolina (on the opposite end or Jordan Gross). I like Gross but I know he's going to command a ton of money. I like the guards from Indy and I know many have voiced their opinions but I think they would be solid additions to our withering offensive line. Ruben Browns position is vacant as well as Fred Millers. This will need the attention of both FA and the draft.

Although we seem to have talent at DT it's become a position of need. I think adding a solid vet to add some good depth would greatly help us. I like what Dvoracek brings but the guy has missed 2 full seasons. Walker is not the answer and Adams is marginal at best. I agree when Smokey stated that we should take high consideration in adding a guy like DT Corey Williams from GreenBay. Randy Starks i'm not going gaga over but if we could get him at a reasonable price this may suffice..i'm a little worried he may turn out to be another Darwin Walker personally.

Safety is definatelly a position of great need. I don't see any of the FA's as an upgrade. As we've all seen Angelo's ability to draft late round talent I'd rather see him draft a couple day 2 safeties than grab that garbage that shows for FA's as of now. I think we should see who gets cut. Maybe some team lets a star go. I'd really like to see us take a look at Michael Griffins brother from Texas as an option. That would be sweet.

WR I think just needs another season of trial. Bradley has the tools but will he pan. We've seen spurts of promise but it has never been consistent. Grossman didn't vouch for this guy for the heck of it. I've seen his capabilities when he's started games. I'd really like to see what he's made of if we gave him a full season to prove himself. Davis always seems to make a catch here and there but in all honesty it never seems as though he gets a ton of passes. It could be because he's not getting open though..it could be the fact that all our qb's are either too busy evading the lack of blocking from Miller, Brown/Metcalf or simply the fact they just stink. *shrugs*

QB will be a great need. I personally am hoping we land McNabb or Anderson. This way we can focus more attention at O-Line, RB, and every other namable position in the draft. Either of these 2 guys would be a great improvement over what we currently have and this would allow us to use the draft for other key positions named above. Hopefully it won't cost us an arm and a leg.
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Old 12-27-2007, 04:54 AM    (permalink
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I dont think McNabb or Anderson will be available. They prolly gonna sign McNabb and franchise Anderson demanding 2 first round picks.
The only thing we need on defense is a safety, and this time an allrounder. We dont need someone like Archuleta who cant cover the deep ball, kinda bad in a Cover 2 Scheme. We also dont need one who doesnt tackle well, (Daniel Manning was leading the team in FFs last year, who wouldve known).

WRs...idk if there are so many drops, should we kinda be concernd about the coach? I hope Devin Hester develops more. If we let go of Muhammed go for a possesion guy, kinda like a Welker in NE, in the draft, maybe someone in FA (???Ernest Wilford???). We dont need a 3rd speedster. Sign Berrian!!

DT. I just dont see who else we need. Maybe sign Tommie Harris Extension soon. We still have Dusty, who seemed to play okay, he has to stay healthy. Adams is alright. Toeania looks okay, we'll see how he does against the Saints
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Old 12-27-2007, 06:01 AM    (permalink
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Ive read that the staff thinks Beekman is too short to play guard and can only back up center. It would explain why he hasn't been given a chance to play this last stretch but I don't understand how height matters at OG.

Derek Anderson is RFA so would most likely require a 1st and a 3rd. I don't think McNabb is leaving Philly without some major compensation. Philly was asking for three 1st rounders at the beginning of the year.

Berrian over Briggs. Can't agree more.

If I remember correctly when we drafted Urlacher and put him at OLB he felt really awkward in coverage so we moved him to MLB where he excelled with the two mammoths in front of him. Now with Lovie, Urlacher is one of the best coverage linebackers in the league and doesn't have big DTs to shield him from wear and tear so moving to OLB really isn't that out there.
Also in a normal Tampa 2 the WLB is the superstar and the MLB role is minimized.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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McNabb or Anderson will be costly. Such a move would be a win now move in many respects, despite their ages (particularly on Anderson). In McNabb's case, we'd probably have to pony up this year's first, perhaps next year's first, and another pick or two. In Anderson's case, I think they'd hold firm on this year's first at the very least. I'm just not sure we are in a position to do such a move. If the cost is less than expected, yes, I ponder a move for eithe rone. But I'm not sold it'll be.

On TE's - I wouldn't move Desmond Clark unless we got something decent. If not, I'd rather keep them. But a first 3 round pick, and I pull the trigger, I think. Even a 4th rounder I'd ponder as well. I'm not in a rush to dump Clark, but if we can get assets, I'd consider it. The staff was intrigued enough with Mines, and Mines holds some similarities to Clark at the same age (although less developed). But that's me.

DT - I'd like to add a DT as well. I'm just not sure we have the money so splurge on a 2nd DT like Corey Williams. Corey's going to be awfully expensive and we'll have to pay Tommie Harris soon. That's a lot of money tied up inside. It's doable, particularly if we let Ricky Manning Jr. and Lance Briggs go, but do we really spend that much? I'd much rather draft a DT than spend big on one. A cheaper guy, someone like Starks, would be fine, but in that situation, it's also arguable if the player would be an upgrade over our depth.

RB - I'd rather spend big on a RB than spend big on a DT, to be honest. That said, I'm not too enthused with spending big on a RB. But the thing is, unless we go RB early (and the first is very, very unlikely), I'm not in love with the 2nd tier and later on RB's. Someone will emerge, but who and will that someone fit in the context of what we need? A lot of it depends on which juniors come out. But I'd rather pick a safety early than a RB, and if we fail to add QB, then that goes ahead in the queue. And there's OL as well.

S - I'm not in love with this safety class to feel comfortable about simply depending on the draft for filling our needs. I'd like to get at least on safety, if not two, in FA to bring in and compete. I like guys like Payne/McGowan/Manning, but they haven't proven enough and this draft class just doesn't impress unless we go after Phillips which

OL - If we land one or two OL talents, this does create the opening to go after Phillips in round 1 if we so desired. I think Gross is too costly, and I still don't love Wharton as an OT. I think Starks is still the preference here in turns of cost and ability meshing the best. Stacey Andrews may be up there as well, as he's a solid RT option. Didn't realize he'd done so well at tackle for them this year. More I think about it, if we miss on someone, I'd make an aggressive bid for David Stewart. Solid, proven young starter for a 4th rounder? I'd do it. I'd like to get beefier inside if possible, which is what makes me wary on the Colts OG's, Jacob Bell, and the ilk. Add in that, while this OG class is weak, there will be some solid starters in the middle stanzas. Don't get me wrong, if we can grab a starting OG and OT in FA, then heck yeah. If not, though, I'm fine waiting on OG until the draft. If we go, say, Brian Brohm, in round 1 (which I'd be wary of), and Max Starks in FA, someone like Mike McGlynn in the 2nd would be intriguing (granted, I'd like to trade down, as I think he's more mid-late 2nd than early). A Schuening/Felton/Radovich/Thomas in the 3rd/4th would be fine. There's some others, too lazy to think right now.

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Old 12-27-2007, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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Or maybe at RB we take a look at a guy like Justin Forsett out of Cal in the draft. Scott has him labled as a mid rounder, but I really like the guy. He is on the smaller side (5'8 almost 200), but when I see him play, he is a lot stronger than he looks, and he fights for every yard. He can put on some weight, but I really like the guy, and think that he would be a decent option.

so what if our offseason looked like this:

-Resign Berrian
-let Briggs walk
-sign Max Starks
-sign saftey if a good young one is out there

Draft: 1st 3 rounds
1st: Jeff Otah OT
2nd: Joe Flacco QB
3rd: Marcus Monk WR
3rd: Justin Forsett RB
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Old 12-27-2007, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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I actually agree with almost every word you said Toonster. It's nice to see someone else agree that keeping Berrian is absolutely imperative. I would keep Berrian over Briggs at this point, and I'm hoping that the FO agrees.

Jerry held a conference recently and said that they being more dynamic on offense was their #1 goal in the offseason, that indicates to me that Berrian, and likely Grossman, will be brought back.

I like Briggs but if it's between keeping Berrian or Briggs, I'd choose Berrian quite frankly.
agreed 100%.

the thing is, we were grooming all last year for the opportunity for briggs to leave. willams and/or okwo are probably ready. williams played a rather good game last week and i'm excited to see what he's got going on. as my brother would say... with another year, i think berrian can get better at route running. as long as someone teaches him what he needs to do to get open...

QB - Agreed. Grossman would be the best bet right now, if we do draft a qb rather high and sign him to a smallish deal. we have two choices. sign grossman in 2 years if he outplays expectations (meaning good). or shop him next year if we feel we have a competent/better than competent person behind center. I would take mcnabb if the price was right. maybe a first round this year and next year's first and third? it's still tough.

RB - Toonster is way right. I don't care what the front office says though. Giving jones to the jets was horrible. Getting turner or fargas would be stellar ideas. Turner and Benson would probably be competing for PT, and maybe we'd see benson drop his shoulders and try to plow over people like he theoretically could... *shrugs* i'd rather trade Peterson than not keep wolfe.

WR/TE - I don't really like the idea of keeping moose. But bradley hasn't shown me anything again this year. I don't know why. Mike Hass will likely see time this year too. Davis should disappear with Moose. Davis isn't special and moose doesn't seem to play like he has, lack of concentration, no speed, he's only good on the run-blocking. If the WR opportunity isn't there for us this year in FA, i'd keep olson and clark without blinking and play out of the 2TE set more, as well as dropping olson out in the x/y/z from time to time. he's shown me everything that i've wanted to see from him this year... athleticism, okay blocking, ability to get the ball.

OL- God. I like max starks. I like the fact he played with rex. As much as Tait isn't a LT, he's still a better LT than i think starks would be. Didn't he play RT in college? Sure, he'll cost a something, but if we decide to keep rex, this will be a no brainer IMO. We don't have to dispose of brown yet, but miller is obviously gone. Beekman being short has two connotations in my mind, either his arms are short (that's bad), or he's short (which is good). Being short means lower center of gravity, if you're 6'2, 305, you by default should have better balance than a 6'7, 305... and CoG helps you put more force into a shorter area. I still want to see more from him...

Defense?
DL - I can see us trading darwin walker for something, or as part of a deal. He hasn't worked out, the FO put too much money into this guy to just let him go. I called them ridiculous for it then, and i'll call them ridiculous for it now. Alex Brown needs to stay. Now, i don't know how to logistically do it... garay? gone. Idonije can stay, Dvorchek is probably gonna be starting still, and maybe he can quit injuring himself. when he plays, it's a different game imo. four strong linemen at all times, best 4-3 line in the game like that. So, round it out... Adams, Ogunleye, Bazuin, Idonije, Anderson, Brown, Harris, Dvorchek, Toeanda, on the roster... i also think that we're better off with brown starting and having anderson rotate in

LB - (discussed above)

DB - Ugh. We're a mess sort of. I saw d.manning made an actual 'hit'... he's fast, but he's no tackler at all, we don't have any vets behind vasher, r.manning and tillman. i'm really sad that archuleta didn't pan out like i thought it would... he was terrific on a marginal rams defense. mcgowan has played realllly well, above my expectations. d.manning is still a safety. he can't play corner, i think this year proved it more than anything, the guy does better in reacting to plays instead of people. he thinks too hard. manning jr... well. he plays nickle, and only nickle. i think we pay him a fair sum to do that seeing as i don't remember the last time i saw us in dime, but that's because briggs and urlacher in coverage were better than most any corners in coverage over the hash marks. without briggs, we automatically have to think about how we can better our dbacks. the FO has been pretty good with drafting corners. I'm okay with seeing how mcbride and graham pan out this year, seeing as they both did decent jobs, but we locked vasher and tillman down, we don't need veteran depth yet, we need backups. Payne is good for the depth in Safety, but if we let go of brown, no doubt we'll need at least one more guy, (i'm looking 4th round)


god. i should be getting back to work by now.
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Old 12-27-2007, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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Or maybe at RB we take a look at a guy like Justin Forsett out of Cal in the draft. Scott has him labled as a mid rounder, but I really like the guy. He is on the smaller side (5'8 almost 200), but when I see him play, he is a lot stronger than he looks, and he fights for every yard. He can put on some weight, but I really like the guy, and think that he would be a decent option.

so what if our offseason looked like this:

-Resign Berrian
-let Briggs walk
-sign Max Starks
-sign saftey if a good young one is out there

Draft: 1st 3 rounds
1st: Jeff Otah OT
2nd: Joe Flacco QB
3rd: Marcus Monk WR
3rd: Justin Forsett RB
I don't understand why you would have us sign Starks and then use the first pick on Otah... Starks IMO is best suited for RT so we'd have to leave Tait at LT. However, since Starks would be able to solidify the RT spot, we can shift the TE or FB over near Tait to help him out. I'm think I'd rather sign Faneca (he will be a bit more expensive then Starks but he won't be getting a Hutch of Steinbach contract as he will be 31-32 come next season), and draft someone like Ryan Clady or Chris Williams (I see him going in the middle of the 2nd, similar to where McNeil went 2 years ago) as our LT, and then draft someone like Heath Benedict in the 3rd or 4th to compete with Garza at RG. A line of Williams/Clady, Faneca, Kreutz, Garza/Benedict, Tait would be very solid. The only thing is that we do splurge on a 31-32 year old guard but Faneca should still have at least 2, 3 pro bowl seasons left.

However, I could see us resigning Brown on a 1 year contract if he wants to come back. If healthy, he is still an above average guard in this league, IMO, but that is a big IF as he is very old.
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Old 12-27-2007, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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Oh yeah, I really don't see us spending the money on any RB in free agency. I might be in the minority on this, but I am leaning in the direction of drafting someone like Jon Stewart in the first... actually, on second thought, I wouldn't mind seeing us spend our money on Turner (I think Oakland is going to do everything in their power to retain Fargas, any RB who can run behind that OL with their ****** team is a keeper), and just focusing in on the draft for the OL. Use our first pick on Clady, 2nd on Flacco, and our 3rd's on Benedict and Josh Barrett. Plus, I could see us keeping Brown cheap for a year and draft perhaps Martin O'Donnell to develop behind him on the 2nd day. Also, while Walker is nowhere worth the money he will make, I could see us restructuring his contract and bringing him back. I wouldn't mind that at all.

How much do you guys think Turner will make in FA?
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Old 12-27-2007, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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Oh yeah, I really don't see us spending the money on any RB in free agency. I might be in the minority on this, but I am leaning in the direction of drafting someone like Jon Stewart in the first... actually, on second thought, I wouldn't mind seeing us spend our money on Turner (I think Oakland is going to do everything in their power to retain Fargas, any RB who can run behind that OL with their ****** team is a keeper), and just focusing in on the draft for the OL. Use our first pick on Clady, 2nd on Flacco, and our 3rd's on Benedict and Josh Barrett. Plus, I could see us keeping Brown cheap for a year and draft perhaps Martin O'Donnell to develop behind him on the 2nd day. Also, while Walker is nowhere worth the money he will make, I could see us restructuring his contract and bringing him back. I wouldn't mind that at all.

How much do you guys think Turner will make in FA?
Ugh. maybe tons. But could we have turner and ced on the same roster? Ced hasn't made more than 2 million a year... we could put turner on the roster for whatever it costs, him eating away at bensons time (if benson gets 701 yards, he gets an additional 1.73 million dollars, he got 674 this year... his five year, 35 mil deal hasn't really amounted to much... he's made maybe 2 mill this year and last year)

edit: and why spend money on faneca? seriously?
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Old 12-27-2007, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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I'd agree. I'd pass on Faneca. Spending huge money on an aging OG just isn't wise, as good as the OG may be. Anyhow, most seem to anticipate him going to Arizona to join Grimm (although I won't be surprised if Grimm gets a HC job this offseason).
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Old 12-27-2007, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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John Tait needs to be moved to RT.
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Old 12-27-2007, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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John Tait needs to be moved to RT.
For who???
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Old 12-27-2007, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSTKUNTLAWL View Post
John Tait needs to be moved to RT.
The earliest you do that is probably in the 09-10 season. You are better off sticking with Tait at LT for another year and easing someone in at RT, unless you end up drafting Clady, where in that case, I'd try to make the switch now as I'm not huge on Clady getting eased in at RT.
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Old 12-27-2007, 06:06 PM    (permalink
k0ng
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What do you guys think about trading down in the first round? Say into the 20s and grab an extra secound rounder. None of the QBs seem worth it to me. The only guy I would like us to see draft in the 10-15 range is Kenny Phillips.

Trade down into the 20s, draft the best OT or RB prospect on the board (Wish Felix Jones was coming out). Five first day picks and the right FA signings would put us right back near the top.

Last edited by k0ng : 12-27-2007 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 12-27-2007, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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Mildly depends on the board, but yeah, I'd be open to that. Problem is, gotta find someone to deal up, which is always easier to mock than for it to actually happen.
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