2011 Chicago Bears General Discussion - Page 250

Docta · 03-30-2012, 01:12 AM

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...nsive-linemen/

I doubt they'll take one in the first now. If they don't end up with some in the later rounds, Campbell better start getting ready to start soon. Releasing Omiyale was one of their best moves of the offseason though.

And you can't forget that Rodgers lead the league in sacks the same year that they won the SB.

Monomach · 03-30-2012, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Docta

And you can't forget that Rodgers lead the league in sacks the same year that they won the SB.

Cutler led the league in sacks taken with 52. Rodgers had the 13th-most with 31. Second place only had 40, so having a crappy line has been pretty special for Jay.

I think you're thinking of sacks the QB was personally responsible for. Rodgers led the league with 13.5, meaning his line was only responsible for 17.5 sacks all season...so...that's an argument for building the O-line rather than ignoring it.

Docta · 03-30-2012, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach

Cutler led the league in sacks taken with 52. Rodgers had the 13th-most with 31. Second place only had 40, so having a crappy line has been pretty special for Jay.

I think you're thinking of sacks the QB was personally responsible for. Rodgers led the league with 13.5, meaning his line was only responsible for 17.5 sacks all season...so...that's an argument for building the O-line rather than ignoring it.

I meant 2 years ago, not this past year.

Monomach · 03-31-2012, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Docta

I meant 2 years ago, not this past year.

Those stats I posted are from two years ago, when the Pack beat the Bears on their way to the Super Bowl. We're talking about the same year. Cutler didn't come anywhere near leading the league in sacks this past year. He was knocked out too early.

Docta · 04-01-2012, 07:59 PM

Ah, it was 2009. I knew he lead the league some time ago. I'm not that good with years..

Monomach · 04-28-2012, 10:54 PM

Went looking through the list of what's left over among veteran UFAs. Found five guys I really think we should take a look at who would cost next to nothing to sign.

RB Jackie Battle +5.4
Offers: special teams play, plus plus pass blocking, no fumbling
Analysis: Battle is a pretty average back that can serve as part of a committee in the event of a Matt Forte holdout. His pass blocking can't be overstated. It's among the best in the league.
Would take the roster spot of: Matt Forte, if he holds out; Armando Allen or Harvey Unga if he doesn't.

DT Gary Gibson +12.8
Offers: pressure up the middle as part of a rotation
Analysis: He got quite a lot of pressure last year as part of a DT rotation in St. Louis...but nothing in the years prior. One year wonder?
Would take the roster spot of: No one. Amobi Okoye is already gone.

DE Matt Roth +8.2
Offers: high motor, good run defense, consistent pressure
Analysis: Roth has always gotten a lot of pressure, causing quarterback disruptions, but it hasn't always resulted in sacks on the stat sheet. The lack of sacks and his season-ending concussion last year seem to be keeping him from the starting job he deserves. Could serve as low-cost, high-upside insurance against Shea McClellin's play.
Would take the roster spot of: Thaddeus Gibson (back to practice squad, cut, whatever).

OG Jake Scott +13.3
Offers: plus plus pass protection, veteran experience, durability
Analysis: The Titans are moving on because Scott's run blocking just isn't there any more. It's not weak; it's nearly non-existent. On the other hand, he still grades out as a top-five pass blocker.
Would take the roster spot of: Ricky Henry (back to practice squad).

OG Montrae Holland +5.9
Offers: above average all-around play, veteran experience
Analysis: Had surgery to repair a torn biceps back in December. Was reported that he would be ready for OTAs.
Would take the roster spot of: Reggie Stephens (back to practice squad).

Bears FA signings to date:
RB Matt Forte +18.1
RB Michael Bush +11.1
CB Tim Jennings +7.4
SS Craig Steltz +4.8
QB Jason Campbell +3.7
RB Kahlil Bell +0.5
TE Kellen Davis +0.2
DE Israel Idonije 0.0
WR Devin Thomas -0.1
CB Jonathan Wilhite -1.7
WR Eric Weems -2.8
QB Josh McCown -4.5
CB Kelvin Hayden -8.0
OG Chilo Rachal -8.1
LB Geno Hayes -11.9

That +/- number next to everyone's name is their profootballfocus.com overall grade for 2012. Take it or leave it, as you will. Sometimes it's deceptive, sometimes it's a pretty good indicator of how they did. You just have to know what's behind it i.e. Jake Scott actually had a negative score in run blocking, but was an amazing pass blocker, so that +13.3 should not be taken to mean that you're getting a really good all-around guard if you sign him. For those curious, every member of our offensive line had a negative grade other than Edwin Williams.

ChiFan24 · 05-01-2012, 08:39 AM

Why don't we just bring back Anthony Adams for the vet minimum? Obviously you'd prefer a 3 tech, but Toe and Paea could both handle it when Melton is off the field. Idonije too.

Monomach · 05-01-2012, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiFan24

Why don't we just bring back Anthony Adams for the vet minimum? Obviously you'd prefer a 3 tech, but Toe and Paea could both handle it when Melton is off the field. Idonije too.

They didn't bring back Adams because he's finished. He wasn't set to make too much this year. His value was tied directly to his ability to stop the run, which was pretty bad last year. That's why they cut his snaps and eventually released him. He only played in two of the last six games despite being 100% healthy.

ChiFan24 · 05-01-2012, 03:13 PM

That's when we had a glut at DT. Now we're pretty thin. Maybe Adams isn't the best choice on the market (I don't really know much about Gibson), but we absolutely need to add a rotational guy that can handle ~15 snaps a game, and we can't afford to pay him too much. I don't think Adams is so bad that he wouldn't be worth the minimum.

bearfan · 05-21-2012, 02:03 PM

What do you guys think of the Forte contract situation?

IMO running backs are not worth between 8.5-10million/year, which is what Forte is looking for. I love Forte, think he is a great RB, but he is 27 and I don't think that we should give him a long term contract.

I'd keep the franchise tag on him this year and maybe next year, but wouldn't sign him to a long term. RBs are a dime a dozen, so I hope that this year Bush can show the team that Forte isn't the only option thus eliminating his high contract demands.

iowatreat54 · 05-21-2012, 02:15 PM

No one knows the whole story, but Forte has now supposedly been offerred two pretty good and fair deals since the beginning of last season, and scoffed at both. I generally hate the McCaskeys and the Bears usual FO, but if the reported offers are anywhere close to true, Forte is an idiot for not accepting.

I'm hoping he can come back healthy, have a good season, but not great, and realizes that he is not a once in a generation back like a healthy AD.

jrdrylie · 05-21-2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearfan

What do you guys think of the Forte contract situation?

IMO running backs are not worth between 8.5-10million/year, which is what Forte is looking for. I love Forte, think he is a great RB, but he is 27 and I don't think that we should give him a long term contract.

I'd keep the franchise tag on him this year and maybe next year, but wouldn't sign him to a long term. RBs are a dime a dozen, so I hope that this year Bush can show the team that Forte isn't the only option thus eliminating his high contract demands.

LeSean McCoy just got $20 million guaranteed. Unfortunately, Forte probably is going to want something similar to that. The problem is the McCoy is just as good as Forte (possibly even a little better) and is four years younger. Forte (and all the people who are saying the Bears need to pay him) need to shut up. He was offered a long term deal that had over $10 million guaranteed. He chose not to sign it.

bearsfan_51 · 05-21-2012, 02:33 PM

20 million guaranteed is pretty reasonable for Forte. I think they would do that. I agree with treat that in this instance, I think Forte is foolishly looking more towards Peterson and Chris Johnson money.

MidwayMonster31 · 05-21-2012, 06:39 PM

I thought the offer they gave last year was pretty reasonable.

bearsfan_51 · 05-21-2012, 07:52 PM

There's no reason Forte should accept less than 16-17 mil guaranteed. He could make that in two years under the franchise tag and then hit the market again.

Gay Ork Wang · 05-21-2012, 08:27 PM

depends. if he thinks its more likely that he will get hurt badly this season, gettign 14 guaranteed now might not look that bad.

bearsfan_51 · 05-21-2012, 09:06 PM

C'mon. Think about it. The only way it makes ANY sense to take 14 mil would be if you thought there was at least a 50% chance you would have a career ending injury. That's silly.

He's right to ask for 20 million. I'm not sure the Bears will give it to him, but he'd be silly to take less.

Gay Ork Wang · 05-21-2012, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

C'mon. Think about it. The only way it makes ANY sense to take 14 mil would be if you thought there was at least a 50% chance you would have a career ending injury. That's silly.

He's right to ask for 20 million. I'm not sure the Bears will give it to him, but he'd be silly to take less.

wouldnt an injury that would greatly hurt his value be enough to consider signing something that gives you a little less with a lot less risk?

bearsfan_51 · 05-21-2012, 09:10 PM

Forte will make 7.7 this year under the franchise tag.

Let's say he has an injury that forces him onto the IR, and makes him something of an injury concern, but one that is still expected to play in 2013. You're saying that someone won't give him 6.3 guaranteed? Of course they would.

Monomach · 05-22-2012, 04:11 PM

I was really hoping that we'd get a second rounder in this past draft for him.

I preferred signing one more back, building on what we already have behind Forte (the makings of a good committee) and spending the leftover money on two of the more under-the-radar good offensive linemen.

I don't even want to tie up 7.7 mildo on a running back, let alone 10 or 11.

Gay Ork Wang · 05-22-2012, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Forte will make 7.7 this year under the franchise tag.

Let's say he has an injury that forces him onto the IR, and makes him something of an injury concern, but one that is still expected to play in 2013. You're saying that someone won't give him 6.3 guaranteed? Of course they would.

yea but only the guaranteed, that doesnt include the rest of the contract does it?

bearsfan_51 · 05-22-2012, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang

yea but only the guaranteed, that doesnt include the rest of the contract does it?

The rest of the contract is worthless anyway if he gets hurt.

Gay Ork Wang · 05-22-2012, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

The rest of the contract is worthless anyway if he gets hurt.

fair point.

Docta · 05-22-2012, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach

I was really hoping that we'd get a second rounder in this past draft for him.

I preferred signing one more back, building on what we already have behind Forte (the makings of a good committee) and spending the leftover money on two of the more under-the-radar good offensive linemen.

I don't even want to tie up 7.7 mildo on a running back, let alone 10 or 11.

A 2nd in next year's draft will probably be more valuable. Maybe the Lions or Bengals would budge. The Lions already get a close-up look on him, and their RBs are already injury scares.

bearsfan_51 · 05-22-2012, 08:16 PM

No way should we trade Forte to the Lions. I'm totally down with trading him, but not within the division.

If I was the Bears, I wouldn't sign Forte to more than 20 mil guaranteed, and if I was Forte I wouldn't take less.

It's a tricky situation, and my guess is that he simply plays with the tag this year and we'll see where things sit a year from now. There's really no pressure on the Bears end to extend him.