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Old 12-09-2007, 02:21 PM    (permalink
pellepelle_10
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That's why we wouldn't give him the load. He would be a good no. 2 back.
As talented as he is I just feel its a patchwork selection given his injury conditions. I personally think it would be a wasted acquisition. We can do better. Injuries have already been a problem for this team. Why add another..*shrugs*
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Old 12-09-2007, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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I personally see Slaton in that 2nd-3rd range mainly because of the question marks about him carrying the load, and I agree with that assessment. But he could make a fine compliment in a 2-back system.
If Felix Jones is avail I'd take him over Slaton personally. I'd still like to see what Wolfe has as a #2 or 3rd down back.
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Old 12-09-2007, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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If Felix Jones is avail I'd take him over Slaton personally. I'd still like to see what Wolfe has as a #2 or 3rd down back.
Wolfe will never amount to anything in the NFL, plain and simple. I'm sorry, but 5'7" 180 lb running backs will get killed in the NFL. What a horrible selection by Angelo that was...

And I doubt Felix Jones is available in the 2nd...
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Old 12-09-2007, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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Wolfe will never amount to anything in the NFL, plain and simple. I'm sorry, but 5'7" 180 lb running backs will get killed in the NFL. What a horrible selection by Angelo that was...

And I doubt Felix Jones is available in the 2nd...

I hear ya Smokey.

I think Jones will be available for the simple fact that this could be a huge crop of RB's if a lot of the juniors decide to go pro. I think we have a good chance of getting a top tier back in the 2nd. I'd rather go Stewart in the 1st but something tells me Angelo may still have blind faith in mr. headcase Benson.
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Old 12-09-2007, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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with how many needs we have, don't you realize how idiotic and stupid it would be to go with Stewart in the first!?!?! You know why this offense sucks? CAUSE WE HAVE NO ******* LINE! Stewart would do nothing for us if he is running behind the same suckass line.
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Old 12-09-2007, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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with how many needs we have, don't you realize how idiotic and stupid it would be to go with Stewart in the first!?!?! You know why this offense sucks? CAUSE WE HAVE NO ******* LINE! Stewart would do nothing for us if he is running behind the same suckass line.
There are free-agents we can get and its not like we can't draft an O-Lineman in the 2nd. I never said O-Line was a problem (i've said this several times) and its not like if we don't go O-Line in the first there is no hope for getting one any other rnd or rnds in the draft. Think outside the 1st round here. The 1st rnd selection isn't the end all for offensive line. Only an idiot wouldn't believe that Fred Miller and Ruben Brown should get their pink slips this year and Terance Metcalf go back to his usual position on the bench or practice squad. Guard and Tackle are major needs. Both don't have to come out of the draft though. (i'd like to see at least one out of the top 3 rnds)
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Old 12-09-2007, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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Have you not seen how much $$$ decent offensive linemen are getting in free agency? If we had money to spare, sure, that'd be fine. But this offseason we have to resign Briggs and Berrian before anything else. As well as that, we have to save up and sign Harris to an extension. There is only so much we can spend.
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Old 12-09-2007, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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Agreed. Runningback in the 1st round is out of the question. Plain and simple.
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Old 12-09-2007, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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you give Benson an OLine, you might not be calling him a piece of garbage...
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Old 12-09-2007, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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Have you not seen how much $$$ decent offensive linemen are getting in free agency? If we had money to spare, sure, that'd be fine. But this offseason we have to resign Briggs and Berrian before anything else. As well as that, we have to save up and sign Harris to an extension. There is only so much we can spend.
Fred Miller
Ruben Brown
Muhsin Muhammad
Adam Archuleta
Darwin Walker
(Griese or Grossman)

I'm sure if we can ease our cap by cutting or trading these guys I'm sure there is some way, somehow we can eliminate excess $$ into players that are going to benefit us from today moving forward. Again I don't think that if we don't draft a 1st rnd O-Lineman (which I've continually stated over and over again Angelo simply evades) we've ruined our future hopes. Do I want to see us get a top tier O-Lineman...only an idiot would say no. Do I think we can get one in the 2nd..most definatelly. whether u want to admit it or not we could have a good O-Line and still be trash. QB, O-Line, Safety, and RB will be top needs. I really don't care what the order is but it needs to be a top priority. My preference would be acquiring a top tier Guard or Tackle via FA and getting the other in the top 3 rnds. Safety we could address in the top 3 but Angelo is fairly good at selecting one in the later rnds.

If it were a perfect world I'd say

O-Lineman: Draft in the top 3 and grab top tier FA
RB: Draft in the top 3
QB: Either draft in the top 3 or grab some top tier FA (Derek Anderson for example)
Safety: FA or draft in the mid later tier (hoping Angelo can get some steals)
DT: Draft later rnd for depth
CB: Draft later rnd for depth
WR: Draft later rnd for depth
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Old 12-09-2007, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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you give Benson an OLine, you might not be calling him a piece of garbage...
If Benson had KC's O-Line of the Priest Holmes era I'd call him a bum. Lets face it. He plays when he wants to. The only times you see him run hard is when someone is on his ass for the starting position or he's playing for a starting position. This team needs someone who runs hard regardless. The O-Line is a problem just as much as Bensons drive is to earn his keep. I say modify them both.
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Old 12-09-2007, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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I predict we will be picking around 15. So, here is a quick offseason plan...

-Trade down 10 spots in the draft for the 25th pick and an extra second rounder
-Trade Alex Brown for a late 3rd rounder
-Resign Briggs (UFA), Berrian (UFA), Ayanbadejo (UFA), and Mike Brown (UFA, incentive laden)
-maybe resign Grossman (UFA) for 1 year and cut Griese or let Grossman go and keep Griese (whichever one would compete with Orton for starting job, to go along with a 1st day pick at QB.)
-Give McGowan (RFA) a low tender. If some other team signs him, oh well, we'd get a late draft pick.
-Let the following leave in free agency: Davis, Gilmore, R. Brown, and Darrell McClover
-Cut the following: Archuletta, Miller, Metcalf, Walker, and maybe a couple other lesser players. This would free up around at least 7 million, if not more.
-Sign RB Chris Brown(I like Faneca but we won't have the money to sign him).
-Extra Bonus, recieve a 4th round comp. pick from losing Alfonso Boone, has been phenominal with the Chiefs.
-Use any money left over for extending Harris. If we can't afford it this year, then make room next year by cutting some players.

DRAFT:
1-25) Duke Robinson*, OG - Oklahoma
2-15) Chris Williams, LT - Vanderbilt
2-25) Dre Moore, DT - Maryland
3-15) Joe Flacco, QB - Delaware
3-23) Lavelle Hawkins, WR - California
3-29) Heath Benedict, OL - Newberry
4-15) Caleb Campbell, SS - Army
4-CP) Marcus Monk, WR - Arkansas
5-16) J.J. Finley, TE - Oklahoma
6-15) Jehuu Caulcrick, RB/FB - Michigan St.
7-15) Kerry Brown, OL - Appalachian St.

*Note: Number next to the round number is the projected pick in that round.
*Other Picks: Trade down for 25 and an extra second, got a 3rd from San Diego, 3rd from Alex Brown, 4th COMPENSATION from Alfonso Boone, and 5th lost to Bills but received Panthers 5th from Chris Harris

PROJECTED ROSTER
QB: Grossman/Griese | Orton | Flacco
RB: Benson | Brown | Peterson | Wolfe
FB: McKie
WR: Berrian | Muhammad | Hawkins | Hester | Bradley | Monk
TE: Olsen | Clark | Finley
OT: Tait (RT) | Willaims (LT) | St. Clair | Benedict
OG: Robinson (LG) | Garza | Beekman
C: Kreutz

DE: Ogunleye | Anderson | Baziun | Idonije
DT: Harris | Dvoracek | Moore | Adams
WLB: Briggs | Williams | Okwo
MLB: Urlacher | Wilson
SLB: Hillenmeyer | Ayanbadejo
CB: Tillman | Vasher | Manning Jr. | McBride | Graham
SS: Brown | McGowan | Campbell
FS: Manning | Gattis

ST: Gould | Maynard | Mannaley
Interesting mock Smokey.

I'm not sure we'll get a 4th for Boone. If I remember correctly, comps are based moreso on contract (along with some other factors). If we get something, I expect it to be a 6th or 7th.

I'm fine with trading down, if we can find a trade. Not sold on it, but certainly it'd be nice. I'm not a huge fan of going Duke Robinson in the first. Depends on the board.

Don't buy Alex Brown for a 3rd. Should be able to net a 4th, as others have noted.

Eh ... Chris Brown? If we clear off as much money as you suggest, depending on what else we do (and it seems your offseason is more draft than FA focused), I'd make a run at Justin Fargas instead.

Not a big fan of going into the year with that grouping at safety.

As for the draft -

Value wise, that's probably where Robinson is, late first/early 2nd. Not a big fan of going that route, though.

I can see Chris Williams and Dre Moore in the 2nd. But having one go mid-2nd and late 2nd? Don't see it. I still think Chris Williams goes in the first, with Moore as a late first/early 2nd.

I can see Flacco in the mid-3rd ... not sold on it. I half wonder if he makes it in late first.

Hawkins is fine placement. Tough to judge at this point. Could, with a good time, be like Anthony Gonzalez (well, I doubt first, just mean he could be a senior receiver with athleticism that slides up).

I can see Benedict in the 3rd. He's "slid" on account of his injury, so we'll have to see.

I'm not huge on Campbell. I have him in the 5th, but at that point, certainly, if you like someone, you go with it.

Eh ... not a fan of Marcus Monk. A number of receivers I'd prefer over him.

Rest of it is fine ... I'd rather pick another position besides TE. Perhaps a LB at that point or another safety. Flip Jehuu and Kerry and I think I like the value better.
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Old 12-09-2007, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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Assuming the Saints beat the Falcons tommorow and nothing crazy happens with SOS (our opponents were 11-4 today, so that's never good) we'll be picking in the 11th spot.

The Falcons, Ravens, and Panthers are all still ahead of us. That said, I think it's 50/50 that the Panthers go quarterback in the 1st round and the Falcons might pass for later as well.

I think if one of the three quarterbacks is available we have to take them. All of this Grossman talk is concerning to me. Yes, he's been ok since he's come back, but he's basically substituted he's tendancy to turn the ball over every play with a total lack of precense in the pocket. If we're picking between Grossman and Griese I'll still take a year (or half of a year) with Griese to set the stage for whomever we select as our quarterback.

If the three quarterbacks are gone, we had best hope that Long, Clady, or Otah is available. Baker and Oher would both be reaches, though I wouldn't hate either.

Kenny Phillips is a possibility. And really, that's about it to me. Dorsey, The Animal, Ellis, Malcolm Jenkins, Long, and McFadden are all players that would appear to be gone before we pick so that would mean worse case scenario we're looking at Phillips or one of the 2nd tier offensive tackles. Hell I might even consider Calais Campbell if that's the case.
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Old 12-09-2007, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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I don't see Long, Clady and Otah going off the board before 11. Where are we gonna be picking assuming we lose out. And unless one of the top OT's are gone, we have to go Qb.
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Old 12-09-2007, 07:19 PM    (permalink
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I don't see Long, Clady and Otah going off the board before 11. Where are we gonna be picking assuming we lose out. And unless one of the top OT's are gone, we have to go Qb.
No I don't either, but I would prefer to avoid Otah as he seems the most risky of the three. I'm actually hoping that the talk about Long being unable to play LT will drop him to us. That would take Clady and Otah going ahead of him, as I think two offensive tackles will go in the top 7-8, but it's not out of the question.
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Old 12-09-2007, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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I like Otah a lot, but the thing about him is that he is mainly a RT, IMO... we have Tait hopefully shifting to RT with a LT coming in.

I wouldn't mind our 1st and 2nd round selections being Kenny Phillips followed by Chris Williams. Phillips would have to play SS for us, but in the cover 2 there ain't a whole lotta difference.
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Old 12-09-2007, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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Assuming the Saints beat the Falcons tommorow and nothing crazy happens with SOS (our opponents were 11-4 today, so that's never good) we'll be picking in the 11th spot.

The Falcons, Ravens, and Panthers are all still ahead of us. That said, I think it's 50/50 that the Panthers go quarterback in the 1st round and the Falcons might pass for later as well.

I think if one of the three quarterbacks is available we have to take them. All of this Grossman talk is concerning to me. Yes, he's been ok since he's come back, but he's basically substituted he's tendancy to turn the ball over every play with a total lack of precense in the pocket. If we're picking between Grossman and Griese I'll still take a year (or half of a year) with Griese to set the stage for whomever we select as our quarterback.

If the three quarterbacks are gone, we had best hope that Long, Clady, or Otah is available. Baker and Oher would both be reaches, though I wouldn't hate either.

Kenny Phillips is a possibility. And really, that's about it to me. Dorsey, The Animal, Ellis, Malcolm Jenkins, Long, and McFadden are all players that would appear to be gone before we pick so that would mean worse case scenario we're looking at Phillips or one of the 2nd tier offensive tackles. Hell I might even consider Calais Campbell if that's the case.
Who's the animal?

Also, wouldn't you be tempted to take Malcolm Kelly with that pick if he was available. If we are picking at 11 or 12, my order of preference would be Phillips followed by Kelly followed by the best OT available. I wouldn't even think about taking Campbell. Seriously, why would we need Campbell?
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Old 12-09-2007, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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The animal=Laurinitis
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Old 12-09-2007, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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he's no animal...

EDIT: Actually, we are all animals.
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Old 12-09-2007, 10:19 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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The Animal is the son of Road Warrior Animal of WWF fame.


You're asking why we would draft Campbell but then saying you would pick Jenkins? That makes absolutely no sense. We just gave Tillman-Vasher a combined signing bonus of about 35 million dollars. They are out starting cornerbacks for the forseeable future.

Defensive End, on the other hand, is can always be upgraded. Brown is likely gone, and never fit Lovie's system anyway. Mark Anderson shows potential but hasn't had a good year at all. Bazuin is a big question mark. O-Gun is having a great year but is around 30 and hasn't been the man since he's gotten here. Having two dominant defensive ends can do a team a lot of good, just look at the Giants.
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Old 12-09-2007, 10:29 PM    (permalink
Smokey Joe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
The Animal is the son of Road Warrior Animal of WWF fame.


You're asking why we would draft Campbell but then saying you would pick Jenkins? That makes absolutely no sense. We just gave Tillman-Vasher a combined signing bonus of about 35 million dollars. They are out starting cornerbacks for the forseeable future.

Defensive End, on the other hand, is can always be upgraded. Brown is likely gone, and never fit Lovie's system anyway. Mark Anderson shows potential but hasn't had a good year at all. Bazuin is a big question mark. O-Gun is having a great year but is around 30 and hasn't been the man since he's gotten here. Having two dominant defensive ends can do a team a lot of good, just look at the Giants.
Where did I say we should draft Jenkins? I said Malcolm Kelly, the WR, but not Malcolm Jenkins, the CB...

Plus, Calais Campbell is a piece of trash, IMO, and doesn't fit Lovie's system either. Vernon Gholston, I'd think about, but not Campbell.

Also, quick question. I just head someone say that the cap is raising 10 million again next year? Is that correct?
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Old 12-09-2007, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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Ah..my mistake. Campbell is far from a "piece of trash". I like Gholston but we've already got one DE that's a little too small, drafting another one doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense. Campbell has good size and has shown that he can get after the quarterback. I'm not saying we should draft him at all, I was just listing hypotheticals.

In fact, as the roster stands now, if we don't draft a QB and an OT with the first two picks (assuming there is value of course) I will be extremely dissapointed. I don't want to bring back Grossman. I just don't see the point anymore.
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Old 12-09-2007, 10:43 PM    (permalink
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What is anyone's thoughts on Trevelle Wharton? I don't think he will get a ridiculous contract this offseason... but would he be a better fit at G or T?
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Old 12-09-2007, 10:48 PM    (permalink
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I would think that cornerback should be the last thing to worry about with Tillman and Vasher locked up long-term, even though Vasher's hurt now. As long as McBride and Graham can keep developing. McBride should make Manning Jr. expendable at nickelback.
Defensive end may not be a problem either if Bazuin can come back and Anderson can adjust. They should draft or sign another D-Tackle.
Personally, I think they would draft Kenny Phillips out of Miami to give them a ball-hawk at free safety and hope that Kevin Payne can become the starter. If Grossman comes back next year, I would hope that they would draft a tackle, either Clady or Baker. Or if Grossman is gone, another quarterback in Ryan or Woodson
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Old 12-09-2007, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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Here are a few possibilities for our 1st three rounds (I'm not going to speculate any further with trades or compensation)

1st round-

Quarterbacks - Brian Brohm, Matt Ryan, Andre Woodson (duh)
Offensive Tackle- Jake Long, Ryan Clady, Jeff Otah, Sam Baker

2nd round-

Quarterbacks- Joe Flacco, Erik Ainge, Josh Johnson
Offensive Tackle- Gosder Cherlius, Chris Williams, Barry Richardson, Alex Boone, Tony Hils

3rd round (2 picks)-
Safety- Jonathan Hefney, Craig Steltz, Josh Barnett, Quintin Demps, Thomas Decoud, Marcus Griffin

Runningback- Mike Hart, Tashard Choice, Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, Justin Forsett, Allen Patrick, Chris Boyd, Dantrell Savage

Reciever- Donnie Avery, Lavelle Hawkins, Paul Hubbard, Jordy Nelson, Keenan Burton, Dorien Bryant, Andre Caldwell, Harry Douglass


Looking over that my ideal draft would be:

-Woodson (Ryan is realistically out of the picture at this point)
-Chris Williams
-Craig Steltz
-Jordy Nelson
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