NBA Discussion Thread

[the decider13]

The Thunder are going to wait to make an offer Millsap until it is closeer to July 8th so that Utah has less time to react. They are hoping that Utah won't have time to move around players to make room for Millsap. Utah has also said that they will match any offer that isn't "crazy money". The GM said that 10 Mil a year was "borderline crazy".

Utah better trader Boozer if they want to keep Millsap.

[M.O.T.H.]

Otis is still looking for a true PF not someone like Marion SF/PF. He wants a Bass or Wallace so we could actually defend against the Kevin Garnett's and Pau Gasol's of the world. Marion wouldnt help you there.

and Bass would easily get 10+ points if he had starter minutes...especially next to Dwight. That would come every night.

Problem is...Otis doesnt want to give him the full MLE, he is asking for.

[aNYtitan]

Originally Posted by Rob S

I dont know.....Z is really terrible. Like, the worst player ever. He puts up stats, but God is he bad. AI and Rudy arent the most efficient of scorers. I like OJ and Gasol, but are they really going to see the ball with AI, Z, and Rudy......dont think so.

Plus, I think they are a pretty bad defensive team. AI sucks outside of steals (which he gambles for), OJ is pretty solid, Rudy *** is average at best although he should be amazing, Z is horrendous, and Gasol is solid. AI plus Z is really bad tho.

What he said about Z-Bo. Jeez I never saw a guy give up so much on a person just driving to the lane. Its kinda sad to think about it cause this guy just has a hell of a talent to score and get boards, yet he keeps getting passed around like he is an expiring contract or something. Memphis will be a much better team then last season with Z-Bo in the lineup, but maybe enough to fight for the 8th seed in the West. It has to suck for Warrick who was doing pretty good in part time status last season

[RoyHall#1]

Originally Posted by aNYtitan

IDK, still the fact that you can "witness" LeBron for 41 games would make me all giddy inside, the man is the face of the NBA and the fact that life ain't awesome cause of no championships is BS. Hey, the rest of the NBA has to deal with the Lakers as well, and I'm sure every team would love to be in the Cavs position of having LeBron. Hell the Knicks are trying to perform every salary cutting move possible to make us a shell of a team just for the possibility of LeBron, and the hope he brings of a championship

Believe me without the Cavs I'd probably kill myself. I was talking about life sucking as a Cleveland fan in terms of all 3 sports, not just basketball. Can you blame me for wanting a championship somewhere?

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

Otis is still looking for a true PF not someone like Marion SF/PF. He wants a Bass or Wallace so we could actually defend against the Kevin Garnett's and Pau Gasol's of the world. Marion wouldnt help you there.

and Bass would easily get 10+ points if he had starter minutes...especially next to Dwight. That would come every night.

Problem is...Otis doesnt want to give him the full MLE, he is asking for.

I can agree with that logic. Sheed has to be the #1 target hands down. I'm praying for him.

[LonghornsLegend]

Could the Cavs make a push for Rasheed now, or is he not on their radar? I'm guessing he goes to Boston but Cleveland may want to make one more splash.

[D-Unit]

MOTH, can you confirm? Local 6 in Orlando is saying the Magic has offered Hedo a 5 year $45M deal.

I don't like the sound of that. We need a real PF.

[JT Jag]

Despite the fact that he'll be over the hill just three or so years into his five year contract, Hedo is a better option than either Bass (though Bass may improve to be better than Hedo over time) or Rasheed (perioid).

[M.O.T.H.]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

MOTH, can you confirm? Local 6 in Orlando is saying the Magic has offered Hedo a 5 year $45M deal.

I don't like the sound of that. We need a real PF.

I saw some dude say this on another site but, I have no idea if it's true. I thought he made it up.

I think all is done w/ Toronto anyway...Bucher said over his twitter that they have renounced the rights to Marion, Delfino, Graham, and Parker. Making the Hedo signing all but a certainty.

I would hope that we did make a competitive offer to Hedo. I would have loved him coming back w/ VC, that is the best lineup in all of basketball. But I think he's gone.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

I saw some dude say this on another site but, I have no idea if it's true. I thought he made it up.

I think all is done w/ Toronto anyway...Bucher said over his twitter that they have renounced the rights to Marion, Delfino, Graham, and Parker. Making the Hedo signing all but a certainty.

I would hope that we did make a competitive offer to Hedo. I would have loved him coming back w/ VC, that is the best lineup in all of basketball. But I think he's gone.

Yeah, I saw it on realgm magic forum. That guy does sound like a doozy though, that's why I thought I'd ask you.

So by renouncing the rights to those guys, that makes them Unrestricted, right? I doubt Marion gets $8M per year now. I wouldn't mind pursuing Parker.

[M.O.T.H.]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Yeah, I saw it on realgm magic forum. That guy does sound like a doozy though, that's why I thought I'd ask you.

So by renouncing the rights to those guys, that makes them Unrestricted, right? I doubt Marion gets $8M per year now. I wouldn't mind pursuing Parker.

Yeah they're all up for grabs and by renouncing them, there can be no sign and trades w/ those guys.

[D-Unit]

Hedo to Toronto

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1206439/

[M.O.T.H.]

There is always a chance Orlando could turn to Marion if all else fails...I'd assume. They havent expressed any interest but, Otis needs to do something if he cant grab Wallace or Bass...because, we look like a worse team, imo. The true PF is top priority but, this off-season hasnt exactly gone according to plan yet.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

There is always a chance Orlando could turn to Marion if all else fails...I'd assume. They havent expressed any interest but, Otis needs to do something if he cant grab Wallace or Bass...because, we look like a worse team, imo. The true PF is top priority but, this off-season hasnt exactly gone according to plan yet.

Read this story... Crazy Hedo... Spinning everyone's heads.

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.co...38893/15880246

Hedo, we have a problem.

Hours after agreeing in principle to a five-year contract with the Trail Blazers, free agent Hedo Turkoglu abruptly ceased negotiations and appears headed to the Toronto Raptors, a person directly involved in the negotiations told CBSSports.com.

"Hedo is headed to Toronto," said the person, who requested anonymity due to the sensitivity of the talks. "To sign."

But after a whirlwind day in which Turkoglu and his representative, Lon Babby, gave a verbal commitment to sign with the Blazers -- or were done in by what one rival executive termed "too many leaks and not enough info" -- determining Turkoglu's final landing spot is best left to those getting the signatures.

The situation was rapidly unfolding, and it was unclear Friday night whether Turkoglu had second thoughts or Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo swooped in and played his trump card -- the fact that Turkoglu and his wife were said to prefer landing in Toronto. As word spread that Turkoglu had agreed with the Blazers after meeting with coach Nate McMillan in Orlando on Wednesday night and touring the Blazers' facilities on Thursday, the Raptors were pursuing three separate avenues that would have precluded making an offer for Turkoglu. They were engaged in talks with Cleveland about a sign-and-trade for guard Anthony Parker, and were making progress on re-signing two of their other free agents -- Shawn Marion and Carlos Delfino. A person familiar with all three negotiations said Delfino's deal was closer to completion due to ongoing debate in the Toronto front office about Marion's value.

The person involved in Turkoglu's negotiations with Portland used the word "reneged" in describing the nature of the impasse. Babby, who earlier in the evening had cautioned that there was "nothing yet" in terms of finalized details of a contract, did not return phone messages or emails after the talks broke down.

UPDATE: The details of how Turkoglu would wind up with the Raptors were sketchy. But given the fact that Toronto had already engaged in discussions about re-signing Marion and Delfino -- with varying degrees of progress -- signs pointed to a more complicated sign-and-trade avenue. That would entail multiple parties signing on, including the Magic, who have quietly stayed in the background of Turkoglu's quest for a new home after acquiring Vince Carter from the Nets last week to protect themselves against losing him. Such a scenario could drag on for days because of the moving parts involved, and the person familiar with Turkoglu's decision to spurn the Blazers for the Raptors did not know the details of how it would be worked out.

UPDATE: It is believed that Turkoglu's preference for Toronto was not the only factor. Another person familair with the situation said Turkoglu wasn't the right fit for the Blazers and that the two sides had "different priorities." As always, money also was a factor, according to another source. In order to trump Portland's expected five-year, $50 million offer, Toronto would've needed to renounce its rights to Marion, Delfino, and Parker. Doing so would've allowed the Raptors to exceed the max Portland could pay by about $800,000 annually. It wasn't clear Friday night whether Portland drove a harder bargain after seeing Toronto's options dwindle; whether Colangelo swooped in with an 11th-hour bid; or whether Turkoglu's camp simply had second thoughts or believed it could get a better deal from the Raptors.

If anything was clear in this bizarre negotiation, it was that Turkoglu's discussions with the Blazers appeared irreparably broken.

"It's called an agreement in principle," one source said in describing the agreement between Turkoglu and the Blazers, without elaborating.

No agreement between teams and players during the weeklong free-agent negotiating period is binding until deals can be signed on July 8, after the NBA and players association agree on the salary cap and luxury tax for the 2009-10 season.

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I wonder if there would be a S&T for Marion and/or Parker. I was excited about a Marion possibility earlier, but now I'm all for Sheed. Or heck, I even like the sound of Bass for less than the MLE.

[M.O.T.H.]

They cant sign and trade those guys anymore. They're free to negotiate w/ anyone. Marion and Parker have both been linked to the Cavs. There is a better chance that they sign Parker, though. But Bucher suggested Parker may bolt for Europe.

[jballa838]

Is it bad I hope Portland trades Steve Blake, next years 1st rounder, and Bo Outlaw for Ricky Rubio and a future 2nd?

[CC.SD]

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

They cant sign and trade those guys anymore. They're free to negotiate w/ anyone. Marion and Parker have both been linked to the Cavs. There is a better chance that they sign Parker, though. But Bucher suggested Parker may bolt for Europe.

So Vince>Hedo, Lee, Skip? I'm actually not all that down on it because I feel like even if it's not this year, Orlando can now get a real 4 and stop trying to fool around with two 3s, which might create mismatches but can also be exploited a little too easily. Dwight is too rare a talent to be experimenting with formations like that, can't wait to see who eventually fills that role. Bass would be a good fit but #1 right now would probably be Millsap.

[DHVF]

Originally Posted by jballa838

Is it bad I hope Portland trades Steve Blake, next years 1st rounder, and Bo Outlaw for Ricky Rubio and a future 2nd?

So what will probably equate to a late first rounder, worthless Steve Blake and I'm assuming Travis Outlaw is what you meant in exchange for Rubio and a 2nd? Are you high or do you just have fun making up completely unrealistic trade scenarios?

[M.O.T.H.]

Originally Posted by CC.SD

So Vince>Hedo, Lee, Skip? I'm actually not all that down on it because I feel like even if it's not this year, Orlando can now get a real 4 and stop trying to fool around with two 3s, which might create mismatches but can also be exploited a little too easily. Dwight is too rare a talent to be experimenting with formations like that, can't wait to see who eventually fills that role. Bass would be a good fit but #1 right now would probably be Millsap.

Millsap wants to get paid out the ass...to the tune of $65 million, so you could forget about that. I would like to add Bass, myself.

I dont see us as better just for getting Carter, though not at all.

We gained Carter and Anderson...but ended up losing Lee, Hedo, Gortat, Battie, and Rafer. Three starters off of the team that got us to the championship. And two important role players during that run. The VC deal looks terrible at the moment. (that could change) Not to mention we have to change everything now. Howard is absolutely fine with Lewis at the 4. He sees plenty of isolations with all of those shooters hovering around the perimeter. And his rebounds are so high because, well Lewis doesnt pound the glass. Now, we could certainly use some rebound help but, the Magic def. had enough talent and the scheme wasnt exactly their problem last year. There was no reason to blow up our roster. Especially considering how much youth we had on it. They would naturally mature and get better. There is a decent chance all this blows up in our faces.

[jballa838]

Originally Posted by diehardvikingsfan

So what will probably equate to a late first rounder, worthless Steve Blake and I'm assuming Travis Outlaw is what you meant in exchange for Rubio and a 2nd? Are you high or do you just have fun making up completely unrealistic trade scenarios?

Its definately the 2nd one. And yeah I meant Travis Outlaw. Rubio is trying to pull an Elway and not go to Minnesota, so IMO what options do they have? You don't draft a player 5th overall and stash him overseas for 2 years.

[DHVF]

Originally Posted by jballa838

Its definately the 2nd one. And yeah I meant Travis Outlaw. Rubio is trying to pull an Elway and not go to Minnesota, so IMO what options do they have? You don't draft a player 5th overall and stash him overseas for 2 years.

To be honest he's never once said that he doesn't wanna play in Minnesota and recently his father has said that being drafted by Minnesota was the best thing that could've happened to him with his buyout situation and our willingness to wait. Now with the buyout situation and DVK Joventut's current financial problems, I'm fairly optimistic that there will be some kind of agreement between the two sides and a settlement will be reached between the sides. Even if it doesn't, we're more than capable of stashing him overseas, especially with having drafted Flynn. This way we can see what we have with him and go from there.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

Millsap wants to get paid out the ass...to the tune of $65 million, so you could forget about that. I would like to add Bass, myself.

I dont see us as better just for getting Carter, though not at all.

We gained Carter and Anderson...but ended up losing Lee, Hedo, Gortat, Battie, and Rafer. Three starters off of the team that got us to the championship. And two important role players during that run. The VC deal looks terrible at the moment. (that could change) Not to mention we have to change everything now. Howard is absolutely fine with Lewis at the 4. He sees plenty of isolations with all of those shooters hovering around the perimeter. And his rebounds are so high because, well Lewis doesnt pound the glass. Now, we could certainly use some rebound help but, the Magic def. had enough talent and the scheme wasnt exactly their problem last year. There was no reason to blow up our roster. Especially considering how much youth we had on it. They would naturally mature and get better. There is a decent chance all this blows up in our faces.

I honestly don't buy us getting back to the finals, much less winning it if we had stayed status quo with that roster. The top teams have all improved and let's be real. We got our asses wiped in the Finals. Lee was the only young guy that we lost and Carter immediately upgrades us there at the 2 spot. If losing youth is a factor, then mind you, we did get Anderson who is younger, back. ....and your boy Hollinger gives Lee a 10.78 PER rating while Anderson is at 13.63... I don't love Hollinger as much as you do, but I'm just saying... Anderson has some nice upside of his own. Losing Battie, Alston and Hedo hardly damages our youth movement.

New news: Orlando is prepared to offer Rasheed the Full MLE.

[M.O.T.H.]

If we dont get Sheed or Bass. I cant see that Carter trade as anything else but a failure. You turn the roster over to potentially go conventional and then you dont succeed in doing just that. In turn, crippling your bench and losing the key matchups problems that got you to the championship.

What made us so dangerous against the Cavs...isnt there any more. It's a big risk, what we're doing. It really hinges on getting that true PF. Even then, there is no guarantee that will make us any better than last year.

And I wouldnt get majorly excited about Anderson or anything. The guy shot every chance he got and not at a good clip. Lets hope he's not another Brian Cook. Personally, I like him but, he could always be just another Cook. I'm just happy to have him as a decent body off the bench at this point. Because, we're so paper thin there.

I def. think we could have went back to the finals with that lineup. We def. could have used a big, like Bass off the bench. But they caused so many matchup problems for nearly every team we played. And they were just going to better. Lee would have a full off-season to improve/progress, Nelson would come back healthy for us, and Howard has gotten better over each off-season. All the Cavs have done is add Shaq. That alone wouldnt have been enough to beat the roster we had last year. Boston would still be the biggest threat, imo. And even w/ KG, that would be anyone's series. Who knows what we'll have this year? I'm just hoping we can land that PF we've been coveting because, we could have some problems if we dont.

And I wouldnt say we got smoked in the finals...every analyst agreed that, that was not played like a 4-1 series. The Magic completely melt down in a game 4 that they should have won. That would have made it 2-2. It would have been tough but, it could have been done. I agree, that we would have needed to atleast add someone like Bass to try and defend Gasol but, that alone would have made a huge difference...because, no one on our team could guard him, when they went big.

edit...

I will say...regardless, we'd be looking at atleast 4 all-star caliber players starting. So, it's not all bad. :) It is amazing but, I'd still prefer last year's roster to this year's as it stands right at this moment. And even if we do add a good starting PF. It's debatable because, our bench could be trash. But yeah, we better get Bass or Wallace.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

If we dont get Sheed or Bass. I cant see that Carter trade as anything else but a failure. You turn the roster over to potentially go conventional and then you dont succeed in doing just that. In turn, crippling your bench and losing the key matchups problems that got you to the championship.

What made us so dangerous against the Cavs...isnt there any more. It's a big risk, what we're doing. It really hinges on getting that true PF. Even then, there is no guarantee that will make us any better than last year.

And I wouldnt get majorly excited about Anderson or anything. The guy shot every chance he got and not at a good clip. Lets hope he's not another Brian Cook. Personally, I like him but, he could always be just another Cook. I'm just happy to have him as a decent body off the bench at this point. Because, we're so paper thin there.

I def. think we could have went back to the finals with that lineup. We def. could have used a big, like Bass off the bench. But they caused so many matchup problems for nearly every team we played. And they were just going to better. Lee would have a full off-season to improve/progress, Nelson would come back healthy for us, and Howard has gotten better over each off-season. All the Cavs have done is add Shaq. That alone wouldnt have been enough to beat the roster we had last year. Boston would still be the biggest threat, imo. And even w/ KG, that would be anyone's series. Who knows what we'll have this year? I'm just hoping we can land that PF we've been coveting because, we could have some problems if we dont.

And I wouldnt say we got smoked in the finals...every analyst agreed that, that was not played like a 4-1 series. The Magic completely melt down in a game 4 that they should have won. That would have made it 2-2. It would have been tough but, it could have been done. I agree, that we would have needed to atleast add someone like Bass to try and defend Gasol but, that alone would have made a huge difference...because, no one on our team could guard him, when they went big.

edit...

I will say...regardless, we'd be looking at atleast 4 all-star caliber players starting. So, it's not all bad. :) It is amazing but, I'd still prefer last year's roster to this year's as it stands right at this moment. And even if we do add a good starting PF. It's debatable because, our bench could be trash. But yeah, we better get Bass or Wallace.

Awe man, I don't agree. We still have all the pieces in place to run the same thing that we ran last year, if not moreso if you factor in Anderson's fit in our scheme being better than Battie's fit.

PG Jameer Nelson
SG Vince Carter/Mikael Pietrus
SF Mikael Pietrus/Vince Carter
PF Rashard Lewis/Ryan Anderson
C Dwight Howard

We still have the personnel to do the same thing. I don't think we'll ever get away from using Rashard's match up strength at the 4 spot. The addition of a more traditional 4 won't eliminate that from our attack. All we do is gain more versatility and ability to match up better against traditional teams.

Also, Ryan Anderson may not be that great a player, but really, replacing Battie is not a difficult thing to do. Add in the savings...

As far as the rest of the competition getting better... I'm not just talking about the East. LA has added Artest and San Antonio added Jefferson... both teams still not done. Add in the fact that if either Boston or San Antonio land Rasheed over us... ugh.

I like the sound of Bass, but I have question marks about his defense. Paul, what do you think? You've watched him much more than I. If the Lakers are the team to beat, I wonder if he alone would enable us to combat a duo such as Gasol/Bynum. Or a KG/Perkins. If we landed Rasheed, now that's a duo... Wallace/Howard that I think CAN get the job done.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

If these rumors of Marbury to the Wizards are true I may just shoot myself. WTF are we thinking??? Brendan Haywood is the only true big man on the roster. I mean look how many guards we have on the roster. Gilbert Arenas, Randy Foye, Mike James, Javarris Crittenton, Nick Young, Deshawn Stevenson. The count in our SF's who are basically guards in Caron Butler, Mike Miller, and Dominic Mcguire. I mean fck 9 out of the 13 players on our roster are perimeter players and you want to add Marbury??? This is beyond nuts to me. I am starting to hate Flip Saunders. Getting Sam Cassel to be an assistant coach I was fine with. Trading the 5th pick for Mike Miller and Randy Foye was questionable. But now getting Marbury, that's crazy. He's the Jim Zorn of the Wizards but even worse. By that I mean Zorn tried to get as many former Seahawks as he could. If you haven't noticed every single acquisition we have made so far is because Flip has a hard on for his old Minnesota connections. Cassel, Marbury, Mike Miller, Foye. I knew we should have gone after Avery Johnson instead.