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View Poll Results: Is Channing Frye the most influential NBA PLAYER EVER?
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Old 05-09-2010, 05:25 PM    (permalink
nobodyinparticular
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Originally Posted by jballa838 View Post
I'm a huge Curry fan, so that makes me admittedly biased. What I see from Curry though is an effortless ability to score and lead a team in an efficient way. It wasn't his fault he had Monta throwing up shots upon shots and D-Leaguers around him. What I can say is as good Evans was, Curry was just that good the 2nd half of the season when he saw consistent time.
And Curry was working in an incredibly fast-paced system. The Kings were well above average in terms of pace as well, but the Warriors were other-worldly in relation to every other team in basketball. With the way the Warriors run an offense, it is difficult to sift through how much is system and how much is true ability. I am not trying to say Curry is Monta Ellis--he is not. And neither am I trying to quantify how much, if any, the Warriors system benefits Curry, but when speaking numbers we have to keep in mind that to some degree, the field is not level. To address the issue of surrounding talent-level, you are talking about a Kings team which had a mere 17 wins in 2008-09. And they lost their best player from 2009 in Kevin Martin! I have heard this same argument about "Ellis and D-leaguers" countless times--it's true that Curry had horrible surrounding talent, but that argument is null void as an empty argument when you consider the other side of the comparison (the other Kings players).

Still, I absolutely LOVE Curry. I do. I love love love him. Time and time again, I have said (on other MBs in reference to finding the perfect backcourt-mate to Evans) that Curry (apart from a lack of man D) is the PERFECT complement to Evans. In a fantasy world, Evans and Curry in the Kings' backcourt would immediately make the team a mid-ranked playoff team IMO. That's how good I think Curry is.

But still, Evans is a manchild. Curry 3 years older, has 3 more years of college experience and has nowhere near the physical giftings (hey, I'm a Raider fan, I had to bring measurables in, right?) that Evans has. In consideration to futures, Curry is fairly maxed in terms of the kind of player he can become because of his physical limits and polished skillset. We can most definitely expect him to get better as he continues to learn the NBA game, but for the most part, what you see is what you get. For Evans, the sky is pretty much the limit. It's ridiculous how good he already is and he doesn't even have a jumpshot yet. He's basically still raw out of high school and he is beasting in incredible situations--from providing the firepower to come back against the Bulls, to making Ron Artest look ridiculous drives where Artest is manning up on him, to schooling B.Jennings, Kenyon Martin and Gilbert Arenas all in his rookie year.

Even without taking future value into consideration, I don't believe there is an argument for who had the better season in 2009-10 and I don't believe there is a reasonable argument for next season either.

I do believe Curry is right on Evans heels, but I do not believe he is better.
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Old 05-09-2010, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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He must have missed Boozer getting hit in the arm by Fisher.
Yeah, saw that. Bad no call.

Series is over though.

As it is playing out now, I cannot see any other Finals matchup than Magic vs. Lakers. Cavs are just the Lebron Show and that won't get it done. If they survive the Celtics (which I suspect they will), I don't believe they survive the Magic. And Lakers are just too deep in the frontcourt to lose to anyone remaining in the West. Jazz are already done and Phoenix... I just don't see it. Amare is a mismatch offensively, but none of the 3 bigs--Amare, Frye, Lopez--matchup against Gasol, Bynum and Odom on defense. The only wildcard is the meniscus tear to Bynum and Gasol/Odom's sudden dropoff yesterday. Even with that considered, those guys are too talented for that to last. They were playing too well in the previous playoff games for this to continue. I fully expect the inevitable Phoenix/Laker series to be decided and dominated by the Laker frontcourt.
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Old 05-09-2010, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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Rajon Rondo says Lebron James eat your heart out. 27 pts 13 ast an 17 rebounds
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Old 05-09-2010, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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sweet BOS/CLE looks like it's heading to a game 7
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Old 05-09-2010, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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So the Boston Rondos just beat the Cavs. I think this goes to seven games with Cleveland taking both home games.
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Old 05-09-2010, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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Great game between Cavs and Celts. Rondo is a beast (28/18/13) WHOA!
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Old 05-09-2010, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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18 rebounds for Rondo is insane
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Old 05-09-2010, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Lebron supporting cast isn't terrible but its a joke to say they are championship material as a whole.

I'm not really defending Lebron at all, I just think its ridiculous to think this season they would have a different outcome than last year. Looking at them so far they are the same, probably make it to the ECF and lose to Orlando again.
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Old 05-09-2010, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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Cavs will still win this series in 6. I don't think they let it go to game 7, but if it does theyll win that.

Boston needs to win the next 2 and avoid a game 7 in Cleveland if they wanna win this series.
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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Lebron supporting cast isn't terrible but its a joke to say they are championship material as a whole.

I'm not really defending Lebron at all, I just think its ridiculous to think this season they would have a different outcome than last year. Looking at them so far they are the same, probably make it to the ECF and lose to Orlando again.
As a Lakers fan, I think they have a better team. They have 3 scorers as well as a deeper team.
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:15 PM    (permalink
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As a Lakers fan, I think they have a better team. They have 3 scorers as well as a deeper team.
How the **** are the Lakers deeper? Outside of Odom (and Brown/Farmar to some extent), they have no bench.
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:17 PM    (permalink
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How the **** are the Lakers deeper? Outside of Odom (and Brown/Farmar to some extent), they have no bench.
I was referring to the Cavaliers. I see what you mean though. It sounds like I was talking about the Lakers.
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Old 05-09-2010, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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Nash's busted eye seemed to only make him hungrier. I'd say that was the the most entertaining 4-game sweep I can remember. All games down to the wire too.
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Old 05-09-2010, 11:41 PM    (permalink
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Steve Nash is ******* awesome
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:57 AM    (permalink
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The Hawks are the most flawed team in the playoffs. Who thinks a starting front line of 3 6'8 guys is gonna cut it in the playoffs? Every NBA Championship team I've ever seen has one of two things: an All Star quality 7 footer or Michael Jordan. The Hawks won't win squat until they find someone to match up with the Dwight Howards and Pau Gasols of the NBA.
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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Does Channing Frye count as an All-Star caliber 7 footer?

if not then hopefully Fropez is back by next week
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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The Hawks are the most flawed team in the playoffs. Who thinks a starting front line of 3 6'8 guys is gonna cut it in the playoffs? Every NBA Championship team I've ever seen has one of two things: an All Star quality 7 footer or Michael Jordan. The Hawks won't win squat until they find someone to match up with the Dwight Howards and Pau Gasols of the NBA.






Were these 3 All-star calliber?
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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Ben Wallace was a all-star

but he isnt 7'0
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Old 05-10-2010, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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[[/img]

Were these 3 All-star calliber?
Mehmet Okur is also an All-Star. ;)

And Rasheed Wallace is a hair under 7'.

Boston Has Garnett. duh

The old Pistons teams had Laimbeer.
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Old 05-10-2010, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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And Curry was working in an incredibly fast-paced system. The Kings were well above average in terms of pace as well, but the Warriors were other-worldly in relation to every other team in basketball. With the way the Warriors run an offense, it is difficult to sift through how much is system and how much is true ability. I am not trying to say Curry is Monta Ellis--he is not. And neither am I trying to quantify how much, if any, the Warriors system benefits Curry, but when speaking numbers we have to keep in mind that to some degree, the field is not level. To address the issue of surrounding talent-level, you are talking about a Kings team which had a mere 17 wins in 2008-09. And they lost their best player from 2009 in Kevin Martin! I have heard this same argument about "Ellis and D-leaguers" countless times--it's true that Curry had horrible surrounding talent, but that argument is null void as an empty argument when you consider the other side of the comparison (the other Kings players).

Still, I absolutely LOVE Curry. I do. I love love love him. Time and time again, I have said (on other MBs in reference to finding the perfect backcourt-mate to Evans) that Curry (apart from a lack of man D) is the PERFECT complement to Evans. In a fantasy world, Evans and Curry in the Kings' backcourt would immediately make the team a mid-ranked playoff team IMO. That's how good I think Curry is.

But still, Evans is a manchild. Curry 3 years older, has 3 more years of college experience and has nowhere near the physical giftings (hey, I'm a Raider fan, I had to bring measurables in, right?) that Evans has. In consideration to futures, Curry is fairly maxed in terms of the kind of player he can become because of his physical limits and polished skillset. We can most definitely expect him to get better as he continues to learn the NBA game, but for the most part, what you see is what you get. For Evans, the sky is pretty much the limit. It's ridiculous how good he already is and he doesn't even have a jumpshot yet. He's basically still raw out of high school and he is beasting in incredible situations--from providing the firepower to come back against the Bulls, to making Ron Artest look ridiculous drives where Artest is manning up on him, to schooling B.Jennings, Kenyon Martin and Gilbert Arenas all in his rookie year.

Even without taking future value into consideration, I don't believe there is an argument for who had the better season in 2009-10 and I don't believe there is a reasonable argument for next season either.

I do believe Curry is right on Evans heels, but I do not believe he is better.
very good points. It's honestly like splitting hairs picking between the two, and pace adjusted numbers would probably bring Curry down statistically a little bit, and there was a while where he was playing 48 minutes a game basically. I love Tyreke though, he compares similarly to Wade and I think at one point will be better if he can get a jumpshot like you said. that said, I am not a great prognosticator, but in 3 years we'll have a lot more to help decipher who is the better player. It's Tyreke's World though, if he wants it which is the scariest part.
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Old 05-10-2010, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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Mehmet Okur is also an All-Star. ;)

And Rasheed Wallace is a hair under 7'.

Boston Has Garnett. duh

The old Pistons teams had Laimbeer.
So as long as you have strong interior defense?

I am saying you don't need a 7 footer to be good defensively on the post. I am not saying the Hawks are assembled correctly its just you don't need a 7 footer to be good defensively in the post. To that point Jordan wouldn't have won with out strong interior defensive presence of Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman. Both under 7 foot but able to defend.
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Old 05-10-2010, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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My point still stands that it's highly rare for a team to win an NBA title without an All-Star quality big man who's at, or very near, 7 feet. It's hard to have great interior defense when other teams can exploit a size mismatch down low.
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Old 05-10-2010, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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Were these 3 All-star calliber?
if those are the only examples you could find, i think that proves halsey's point
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Old 05-10-2010, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Great game between Cavs and Celts. Rondo is a beast (28/18/13) WHOA!
But LeBron's elbow is bruised!!!
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Old 05-10-2010, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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I was watching the Regis and Kelly show this morning lol but they were talking about the people in New York getting serious about having LeBron in the NY next season.

What are the chances this happens? I mean he is the Cavs. He was born and raised in Akron. He went to HS in the Akron. He epitomizes everything that a hometown hero should be. I mean, he's not unhappy in Cleveland.. or is he?
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