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Old 05-17-2010, 01:34 AM    (permalink
Chucky
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Ya but when he was in the game he was playing Center and Lee moved to the 4 spot. I would have mentioned Darko but we never played him we didn't have anyone else play center really besides Lee or we went super small.

I clamored for Lee to be a all-star? I have been bashing Lee for a while now and saying he is all about stats and money not the same hard noise tough player he was when he first came in.

I said they were used to getting whooped in the paint nothing about their win-lose record so I dont know where your getting we think winning 30 games is a good thing. If that was the case Donnie Walsh wouldnt be here right now and D'antoni would have quit they want to build a winner by clearing out Isiah's mess and then getting 2 max players( Lebron+ his choice).

This was Walsh and D'antoni's plan right when they came in they knew we were not going to be that good these first 2 years. Now the time is here to see if they can complete their plan.
I don't exactly know how long you have been bashing Lee because I am pretty sure I remember you saying how he is a solid player and wish he could be part of the Knicks core in the future. but don't worry you arent the only fan who starts bashing a player once it is obvious he is leaving.

You mentioned how it is fine to have Gallo getting owned in the paint because the team is already used to the same abuse on Lee. I then brought up that a large part of the reason why the Knicks didn't even get thirty wins is because of the aformentioned rapeage on the interior and that replacing Lee's terrible defence with Gallos would not fix the problem of winning under 30 games.
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Old 05-17-2010, 01:53 AM    (permalink
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It doesn't matter who is on the Knicks roster, they will never win anything at all under D'antoni. He literally preaches not playing defense so they can fit in more possessions on offense....................
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Old 05-17-2010, 01:55 AM    (permalink
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It doesn't matter who is on the Knicks roster, they will never win anything at all under D'antoni. He literally preaches not playing defense so they can fit in more possessions on offense....................
lol it's fairly close to that, he only spends 15 minutes of practice working on defense
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Old 05-17-2010, 03:07 AM    (permalink
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Ya I know we need a point guard but unless we are getting some big time upgrade like a Tony Parker all star caliber type guy I rather ride it with Douglas. I dont really want Parker that much unless its a good deal just not impressed with the 2010 fa point guards.

I know we need more size and talent that's why we wanted to bring in Camby but Portland looked him up for big money so now Walsh is going to find another option. David Lee is a fa if you didn't know so he probably wont be back.
I know he's a free agent, and I think he would be best suited as a bench player. He's incapable of playing the 5 (too small), but he's a nice option at the 4.
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Old 05-17-2010, 07:48 AM    (permalink
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I don't exactly know how long you have been bashing Lee because I am pretty sure I remember you saying how he is a solid player and wish he could be part of the Knicks core in the future. but don't worry you arent the only fan who starts bashing a player once it is obvious he is leaving.

You mentioned how it is fine to have Gallo getting owned in the paint because the team is already used to the same abuse on Lee. I then brought up that a large part of the reason why the Knicks didn't even get thirty wins is because of the aformentioned rapeage on the interior and that replacing Lee's terrible defence with Gallos would not fix the problem of winning under 30 games.
I might have said that after the 1st year that Walsh-D'antoni were brought in or when Lee was a fa. But even then I was not happy with the defense David Lee was playing. I also thought about trading David Lee alot since he seemed to be our most valuable asset so that also maybe why I said we should keep him

So if I added two max players you don't think that alone would get the team to win more then 30 games? Yes Gallo would struggle not claiming he is going to come in and be a dominant post defender like all of a sudden he will turn into Kendrick Perkins next year. The difference would be that Gallo actually tries to improve and is willing to get better which is something I would rather have then David Lee. If my defense is not going to be my strong suit anyway I rather have the guy with the height who still has room on his frame and the willingness to get better.
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:40 AM    (permalink
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I don't exactly know how long you have been bashing Lee because I am pretty sure I remember you saying how he is a solid player and wish he could be part of the Knicks core in the future. but don't worry you arent the only fan who starts bashing a player once it is obvious he is leaving.

You mentioned how it is fine to have Gallo getting owned in the paint because the team is already used to the same abuse on Lee. I then brought up that a large part of the reason why the Knicks didn't even get thirty wins is because of the aformentioned rapeage on the interior and that replacing Lee's terrible defence with Gallos would not fix the problem of winning under 30 games.
David Lee is more than a solid player he is a good player...at PF. He should never play center or have to carry your team like he did for us but he does a lot of things very well. He's a monster rebounder, a great passer for a big man, a great finisher around the rim, has developed a very dependable jumper and he can attack the hoop. Now he was an atrocious defender at the 5 because he had to be the guy to protect the paint and battle bigger dudes on D and carry our team on the other end so he started saving his energy for offense. If you put him on a team where he'll have a center next to him who'll protect the paint and a better offensive weapon and he'll be a very good starter for some team.

Still doesn't have a future on our team though. Gallo is going to be our starting PF very soon, he's already miles ahead defensively of Lee, is actually good rebounder when he's not stuck in the corner waiting to take the bailout buzzer beater three. Plus he's a better slasher and shooter than Lee even though he isn't the monster finisher at the rim that Lee is. People have a lot of myths about gallo but after we traded Jeffries dudes was our best defender. He went hard at guys all over the court from bigs like Amare to wings like Melo and even point guards. He's smart, long, tough and has that drive that makes him actually a good defender.

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It doesn't matter who is on the Knicks roster, they will never win anything at all under D'antoni. He literally preaches not playing defense so they can fit in more possessions on offense....................
Really? Mike D would have a ring right now if Robert Horry didn't shove Nash into the scorer's table. He also regularly took his team deep into the playoffs, he just got the ****** luck of having his best talent in the middle of a Spurs dynasty.

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I know he's a free agent, and I think he would be best suited as a bench player. He's incapable of playing the 5 (too small), but he's a nice option at the 4.
As I explain above Lee's a starter, just at the 4. And if he's at the 4 he'll actually be a very good starter provided that your Center isn't Bropez or even Eddy Curry bad on D.

At LT giants:
Lee has improved significantly every summer, the problem is he's never made those same strides on D. Remember as a rookie where Lee was a true garbage player, smart but no skills beyond rebounding and being able to finish around the hoop. That summer he went from bad FT shooter to a very good FT shooter. Then he developed a real jump shot and this year gained the ability to attack the hoop off the dribble and use that to set up his team-mates. Lee's a smart player who's become quite skilled. He just needs to go to a team where he can play the 4 and not have too score as much, also wouldn't hurt if he finally turned that ability to improve to defense instead of developing a 3-ball.
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Old 05-17-2010, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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David Lee is more than a solid player he is a good player...at PF. He should never play center or have to carry your team like he did for us but he does a lot of things very well. He's a monster rebounder, a great passer for a big man, a great finisher around the rim, has developed a very dependable jumper and he can attack the hoop. Now he was an atrocious defender at the 5 because he had to be the guy to protect the paint and battle bigger dudes on D and carry our team on the other end so he started saving his energy for offense. If you put him on a team where he'll have a center next to him who'll protect the paint and a better offensive weapon and he'll be a very good starter for some team.

Still doesn't have a future on our team though. Gallo is going to be our starting PF very soon, he's already miles ahead defensively of Lee, is actually good rebounder when he's not stuck in the corner waiting to take the bailout buzzer beater three. Plus he's a better slasher and shooter than Lee even though he isn't the monster finisher at the rim that Lee is. People have a lot of myths about gallo but after we traded Jeffries dudes was our best defender. He went hard at guys all over the court from bigs like Amare to wings like Melo and even point guards. He's smart, long, tough and has that drive that makes him actually a good defender.



Really? Mike D would have a ring right now if Robert Horry didn't shove Nash into the scorer's table. He also regularly took his team deep into the playoffs, he just got the ****** luck of having his best talent in the middle of a Spurs dynasty.



As I explain above Lee's a starter, just at the 4. And if he's at the 4 he'll actually be a very good starter provided that your Center isn't Bropez or even Eddy Curry bad on D.

At LT giants:
Lee has improved significantly every summer, the problem is he's never made those same strides on D. Remember as a rookie where Lee was a true garbage player, smart but no skills beyond rebounding and being able to finish around the hoop. That summer he went from bad FT shooter to a very good FT shooter. Then he developed a real jump shot and this year gained the ability to attack the hoop off the dribble and use that to set up his team-mates. Lee's a smart player who's become quite skilled. He just needs to go to a team where he can play the 4 and not have too score as much, also wouldn't hurt if he finally turned that ability to improve to defense instead of developing a 3-ball.
I tend to call him a true hustle player when he first came in but ya I understand your point that he has grown a lot but I am just tired of seeing this new lack of heart no effort on D player that is only concerned about his numbers and getting a contract.
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Old 05-17-2010, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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http://www.hotcappers.com/lebron-jam...-delonte-west/

Thats why Lebron sucked!

I'm kidding, its just a rumor right now but its the craziest I've heard in a while.
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Old 05-17-2010, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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Patrick Ewing needs to be fired as Dwight's position coach. Magic fans tend to overrate Howard. He hasn't improved offensively at all in 3 years. ... I take that back. He's grown/matured physically and has added more power to his game, but he still lacks a go to move in the post. I said it before that Ewing needed to go a long time ago. He was a finesse center and that is not Dwight's game. I fear, as long as Ewing is Dwight's coach, nothing is gonna change. I blame SVG for not getting more outta Dwight offensively as well.
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Old 05-17-2010, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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Patrick Ewing needs to be fired as Dwight's position coach. Magic fans tend to overrate Howard. He hasn't improved offensively at all in 3 years. ... I take that back. He's grown/matured physically and has added more power to his game, but he still lacks a go to move in the post. I said it before that Ewing needed to go a long time ago. He was a finesse center and that is not Dwight's game. I fear, as long as Ewing is Dwight's coach, nothing is gonna change. I blame SVG for not getting more outta Dwight offensively as well.
I wish that Olajuwon would coach. Howard should go to him in the offseason and just learn post moves, a la Kobe. LeBron should also look to The Dream for Post moves.
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Old 05-17-2010, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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I wish that Olajuwon would coach. Howard should go to him in the offseason and just learn post moves, a la Kobe. LeBron should also look to The Dream for Post moves.
Olajuwon was also finesse. David Robinson would be the perfect mentor for Dwight.
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Old 05-17-2010, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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Josh Smith spent last summer learning from Hakeem. While he's still not a super skilled player, his improvements in the post have been remarkable this year. In the past he was truly only a dunker with no touch around the basket. Now Smith can comfortably post his man and has so many different spins and up fakes. Smith is a much more skilled post player than Howard and this point and I give the credit to the Dream. If Dwight can make those improvements he will be boss because he already has more natural skill and strength than Smith.
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Old 05-17-2010, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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Really? Mike D would have a ring right now if Robert Horry didn't shove Nash into the scorer's table. He also regularly took his team deep into the playoffs, he just got the ****** luck of having his best talent in the middle of a Spurs dynasty.
No he wouldn't, this is the lamest excuse for losing. I swear I've heard it about a million times. Wahhh Robert Horry made us violate the rules specifically preventing players from doing exactly what we did, nevermind that Nash instigated the whole thing by flopping as hard as he possibly could. Robert Horry miraculously made us lose 3 more times to a vastly superior Spurs team. Honestly I don't feel like I'm taking away from the current Suns team by saying that all of D'antoni's squads were overrated.

You don't win titles by not playing defense.
Run n Gun=fine.
_'antoni=not fine.
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Old 05-17-2010, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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If Howard had a reliable jumper, that would put him up there with the top centers of all time. He's quick enough to beat centers off the dribble, but there's no reason for them to play him close.
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Old 05-17-2010, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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No he wouldn't, this is the lamest excuse for losing. I swear I've heard it about a million times. Wahhh Robert Horry made us violate the rules specifically preventing players from doing exactly what we did, nevermind that Nash instigated the whole thing by flopping as hard as he possibly could. Robert Horry miraculously made us lose 3 more times to a vastly superior Spurs team. Honestly I don't feel like I'm taking away from the current Suns team by saying that all of D'antoni's squads were overrated.

You don't win titles by not playing defense.
Run n Gun=fine.
_'antoni=not fine.
That year we might of actually won a title, Cavs made it to the Finals and we would of swept them, Game 1 at home last few minutes Nash busted open his nose and we lost a 5 point lead instantly, Game 3 was the whole Tim Donaghy scandal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvkKdXLwt0U

then having to play game 5 at home without Amar'e and Diaw after just taking back home court advantage
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Old 05-17-2010, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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If Howard had a reliable jumper, that would put him up there with the top centers of all time. He's quick enough to beat centers off the dribble, but there's no reason for them to play him close.
top centers of all time don't get abused by kendrick perkins.

I think he definitely has the potential but let's be realistic here, there's been a lot of real great centers throughout the history of basketball.

Just off the top of my head:
Wilt
Russell
Shaq
Hakeem
David robinson
Kareem
Moses Malone
Patrick Chewing
Bill Walton

That's an elite company to be in.
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Old 05-17-2010, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Kobe is a beast, he's been playing what it seems like the last year and half injured. I wonder what kind of numbers he'd put up right now if he was 100 percent.
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Old 05-17-2010, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MidwayMonster31 View Post
If Howard had a reliable jumper, that would put him up there with the top centers of all time. He's quick enough to beat centers off the dribble, but there's no reason for them to play him close.
Have you seen him shoot FTs? He's never gonna develop a jumper. Never.
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Old 05-17-2010, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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Dwight needs to get more lower body strength. He gets pushed out by big centers. he gets that, and he has the athleticism to dunk on any man in the post.
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Old 05-17-2010, 05:58 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soybean View Post
top centers of all time don't get abused by kendrick perkins.

I think he definitely has the potential but let's be realistic here, there's been a lot of real great centers throughout the history of basketball.

Just off the top of my head:
Wilt
Russell
Shaq
Hakeem
David robinson
Kareem
Moses Malone
Patrick Chewing
Bill Walton

That's an elite company to be in.
I think Dwight Howard can and will have a similar or better career to David Robinson. Determine if that is a good or bad thing.
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Old 05-17-2010, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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Excited for the game. Should be a nice match up for us.
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Old 05-17-2010, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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I think Dwight Howard can and will have a similar or better career to David Robinson. Determine if that is a good or bad thing.
David Robinson won a scoring title, so...
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Old 05-17-2010, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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David Robinson won a scoring title, so...
Yeah, Robinson was alot better offensively at this point in his career compared to Howard.. Robinson had that pure lefty stroke that was smooth and he actually could hit some mid rangers and a little more crafty then Howard.

I would give Howard the edge defensively but both players were/are forces in the paint..
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Coples is that dude.
Go Amare.

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Old 05-17-2010, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by soybean View Post
Kobe is a beast, he's been playing what it seems like the last year and half injured. I wonder what kind of numbers he'd put up right now if he was 100 percent.
We'll never know, he's never 100 percent
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Old 05-17-2010, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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Question: I know they play similar positions, but why do Lebron and Dwight absolutely refuse to develop their low post game? It's the main thing holding both of them back from being unstoppable.

The difference between Pau and Dwight in the post during the Finals last year was one of the more underrated facets the Lakers' victory last year. Pau was masterful. Dwight looked clumsy and awkward.

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